Author Topic: MWO: Project Phoenix!  (Read 11091 times)

The Hawk

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #30 on: 23 October 2013, 19:51:20 »
Loads of Hawks everywhere, but I think I've only ever spotted one Griffin. 

I don't own any of the Phoenix designs, but the Tbolt is the sexiest of the bunch. Would like to get one someday.

I'd be amazed if you saw even one Griffin, since they don't come out until December. ;)

I'm enjoying the Shadow Hawks greatly -- far more than I thought I would.  Great balance of speed and build options; each one has a different flavor.  Though I actually like the SHD-5M least, because I've discovered I don't like the UAC/5; I just can't figure out what else I would put on there instead...

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #31 on: 24 October 2013, 02:47:14 »
I'd be amazed if you saw even one Griffin, since they don't come out until December. ;)

I'm enjoying the Shadow Hawks greatly -- far more than I thought I would.  Great balance of speed and build options; each one has a different flavor.  Though I actually like the SHD-5M least, because I've discovered I don't like the UAC/5; I just can't figure out what else I would put on there instead...

I know they're doing the Locusts now for C-Bills or MC.  Looks like we need to wait until November 19 for that for the Shadow Hawk, though?
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ColonelCody

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #32 on: 24 October 2013, 04:31:14 »
I'd be amazed if you saw even one Griffin, since they don't come out until December. ;)

I'm enjoying the Shadow Hawks greatly -- far more than I thought I would.  Great balance of speed and build options; each one has a different flavor.  Though I actually like the SHD-5M least, because I've discovered I don't like the UAC/5; I just can't figure out what else I would put on there instead...
Have you tried the LB-10X builds for it yet?

The Hawk

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #33 on: 24 October 2013, 08:16:14 »
I know they're doing the Locusts now for C-Bills or MC.  Looks like we need to wait until November 19 for that for the Shadow Hawk, though?

The FAQ says November 20th, but that's not a Tuesday, so I assume the 19th is correct.  (Though they're still selling the PP packages for regular old money, too.)

Have you tried the LB-10X builds for it yet?

I put one on my -2D2 after messing around with some other unsatisfactory builds and it has become a fast favorite when mounted with 4x Streak-2s and 2x MLs.  It's been quite a while since I used an LB-10X, and it seems as though they tightened up the shotgun spread and tweaked the damage, as it seems far more effective.  It's turned the -2D2 into my brawling SHD while the other two are long-range models (I'm running the -2H with 3x AC/2 and an ML, and the -5M as basically stock, with UAC/5, LRM-20, and dropping the Streak for another ML).  It's awfully effective, and I commonly manage damage figures in the 300s or even 400s with that -2D2 setup.

Of course, I still wish the LB worked like it does in BT and had selectable ammo, so you could use it as an effective medium-range main gun or a short-range shotgun.  The -2D2 is basically useless past 300 meters.

The thing about the SHDs is that their hardpoints and less than ideal armor on some models cry out for more tonnage, and in my experience basically all of them run hot, so (as is often the case in MWO -- and tabletop, for that matter) double heat sinks and Endo are must-have purchases.  Luckily for me, I foresaw this prospect and socked away some C-Bills for just such upgrades, but it is an added expense for anyone planning to buy or use them.

Another thing about the SHDs is that they all have jump jets, which I hadn't made much use of before but am finding consistently useful getting the SHDs where they want to go.  So much so that I hesitate every time I consider taking them off for other equipment.  (They're only half a ton, after all!)  Plus, they let me DFA a BattleMaster the other day. ;)

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #34 on: 24 October 2013, 17:51:30 »
Wait, the SHD-2H even runs hot?
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Jayof9s

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #35 on: 24 October 2013, 18:07:00 »
Wait, the SHD-2H even runs hot?

Heat is very different in MWO. Heatsinks still cool 1 heat every 10 seconds (essentially) but weapons can usually be fired more often than every 10 seconds, so you're already building more heat than you can in table top. On top of that, some weapons (small lasers and medium lasers at a minimum) produce more heat per shot than their table top versions (other weapons, like large lasers and ppcs produce slightly less than their TT counterparts, if that hasn't changed.)

Admittedly things might have changed in the... year? since I stopped playing but I'm not at all surprised that the 2H would run hot if you're firing off everything as fast as possible.

The Hawk

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #36 on: 25 October 2013, 08:18:21 »
Heat is very different in MWO. Heatsinks still cool 1 heat every 10 seconds (essentially) but weapons can usually be fired more often than every 10 seconds, so you're already building more heat than you can in table top. On top of that, some weapons (small lasers and medium lasers at a minimum) produce more heat per shot than their table top versions (other weapons, like large lasers and ppcs produce slightly less than their TT counterparts, if that hasn't changed.)

Admittedly things might have changed in the... year? since I stopped playing but I'm not at all surprised that the 2H would run hot if you're firing off everything as fast as possible.

Yeah, that's the basic issue.  In my case, the problem is I've kitted out my -2H with three AC/2s, which are not very damaging per shot but have the considerable advantage of cycling almost as fast as you can tap the button.  The consequence is that in the time it takes to cycle heat once, I may have fired five or ten times.  Even with the tabletop equivalent of AC/2 heat, that might be 15 or 30 I need to dissipate.

There's also a system they added a while back to provide a soft cap on boating, whereby firing more than a certain number of a given weapon imposes a (potentially quite significant) multiplier on heat, though that's not actually in play with three AC/2s.

Fatebringer

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #37 on: 25 October 2013, 08:56:08 »
Yeah, the rate of fire on those things is incredible. I changed from paired AC5's to paired AC2's and my heat efficiency banner dropped drastically. As someone mentioned earlier, the LB10X on the Shadowhawk is a good fit. Heat is low and the rate of fire is pretty good.

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Wrangler

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #38 on: 25 October 2013, 13:40:34 »
I'd be amazed if you saw even one Griffin, since they don't come out until December. ;)

I'm enjoying the Shadow Hawks greatly -- far more than I thought I would.  Great balance of speed and build options; each one has a different flavor.  Though I actually like the SHD-5M least, because I've discovered I don't like the UAC/5; I just can't figure out what else I would put on there instead...
There a guy who doing reviews has a Shadow Hawk with triple AC/2s, originally he just had double.  He was sniping heck out of everyone with it.  I think only problem is I think he was using one the special edition Sabre versions.
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ColonelCody

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #39 on: 27 October 2013, 00:52:36 »
Sabre's arent out yet I thought? not till christmas/winter...

The Hawk

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #40 on: 27 October 2013, 12:35:25 »
There a guy who doing reviews has a Shadow Hawk with triple AC/2s, originally he just had double.  He was sniping heck out of everyone with it.  I think only problem is I think he was using one the special edition Sabre versions.

ITYM Phoenix versions, as Sabre is the Griffin/Wolverine package due out.  The only way to have a Shadow Hawk right now would be through the Phoenix package, as they aren't available for general sale for another few weeks.  However, the Phoenix variants aren't any different than the basic models in terms of performance, tonnage or equipment (just in paint scheme and generating extra C-Bills).

Fatebringer

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #41 on: 28 October 2013, 12:48:27 »
... I hear this talk and can visualize the kind of anticipation and debates that story wise purchasers of these mechs would have ;)

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #42 on: 28 October 2013, 18:00:03 »
Just bought a LCT-1V for C-Bills, spend a few bucks for custom paint, painted it yellow, named it Bumblebee, added Endo steel and 2 MGs.  Swapped the ML for an SPL.

Doesn't do crap for damage, but it's absolutely hilarious to drive.
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Fatebringer

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #43 on: 29 October 2013, 16:14:25 »
There is one reason for me to get a Locust and that would be to see how fast I could make it...

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #44 on: 21 November 2013, 10:02:47 »
Shadowhawks are purchasable with C-Bills now :)

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #45 on: 21 November 2013, 12:46:46 »
Yup. Sold my K2 chassis, since I maxed out its basic ability items anyway, and bought an SHD-2H.  Stock config is versatile, but really is a bit of a dog's breakfast to use.

Threw my Catapult engine in it, dropping the speed down to 72 kph.  Tried twin AC/2s, which I found to be very hot with SHS, swapped the SRM-2 for a second LRM-5, and tried a large laser in place of the medium.  Very, very hot running.

Right now, I'm considering twin AC/2s for range, and two SRM racks and a medium laser for close work.  Depending on how that works, I could run either a single AC/5 if heat is a problem.
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MarauderD

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #46 on: 21 November 2013, 12:56:03 »
Shadow Hawks are downright amazing. They spread damage so well that you can stick an XL on them and not worry about  side  torso destruction even though they are as big as some assault mechs (terribad scaling). They are easily the  best medium out right now, YMMV. 

Also, if you purchased Overlord, check out the XL360, 3 AC2/4 ML build on BattleMaster 1D. It seems so crazy good to me. I'm a very average assault  pilot  but the range and cool down on the AC s make 4 kill 6 assist games seem underachieving.

ColonelCody

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #47 on: 21 November 2013, 13:52:31 »
I've so far been unimpressed by locusts, and rather let down by the hadowhawks, but I'll admit to the flaw that I am a crappy medium pilot. Though I've enjoyed the Thunderbolt and Battlemaster immensely. The Locust was a severe let down the Pheonx locust has a huge rollbar across his screen, and it impedes the pilot's sight of the field. I sold off the two I could and made use of the bays to purchase a pair of jagermechs. Wich I have enjoyed immensely.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #48 on: 21 November 2013, 14:53:39 »
The LCT-1V, I agree, strikes me as a death trap, and far too difficult to make a config that works well in MWO: with a single energy hardpoint center torso, and two ballistic ones in each arm, you're stuck either boating machine guns and either avoiding combat in a game that primarily rewards combat, or closing to close range in a 20-ton 'Mech, playing the vulture and preying on near-dead 'Mechs, where your machine guns have open wounds to exploit.

The only other viable LCT-1V strategy gets expensive, requiring an XL engine and ER large laser, to snipe from extreme range.  That's probably more money than it's worth on the Locust.

I haven't tried the energy boat LCT-3M, so I can't day how that would work out,  but, again,20-ton 'Mech, and energy boats aren't as optimal in MWO: it's harder to concentrate damage with standard lasers, firing rates are so much faster than on the tabletop, yet cooling is still based on a 10-second cycle, where double heat sinks are only 40% more efficient than standards.  I hear the LCT-1Vb Royal Locust translates across acceptably, but, again, cost is high for a 20-tonner.

That leaves the missile boat LCT-3S, which I did buy, and turn into a mutant -1M/-3D hybrid 2 LRM-5s, 1 ML, 10 SHS, ES, 2 tons Ferro). The end result is a 'Mech that workd either fabulously or horribly, but is rarely boring. Not sure how an SRM version could work: you're probably better off with a Commando.
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The Hawk

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #49 on: 21 November 2013, 20:22:02 »
I've been trying to run the -3S with 2x SRM-4, a medium laser, and a 190XL engine.  It's OK, but you're basically right, it's no Commando.

The -3M with 5x ML or 4x ML and an SL is decent; you get Jenner firepower without the size of the Jenner chassis, which I always found terribly easy to hit.  The tradeoff is durability when you do get hit, as you inevitably will.

I haven't found a build for the -1V I like.  I really don't go for the whole MG-boat thing, so those builds don't have much appeal.  Am contemplating the various options to slap an AC/2 on it.

The irony of MWO is that, because of how upgrades work and what tends to play well for certain builds, some of the stock Phoenix 'Mechs work well more or less straight out of the box or with inexpensive changes, whereas the smaller and theoretically cheaper Locusts generally need XLs to run fast enough to avoid death and endo and ferro to get the tons to mount an effective warload.  I spent way more getting my Locusts usable than I did the Shadow Hawks (though that was mostly because I've got two 300XLs in the barn. ;))

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #50 on: 22 November 2013, 14:18:34 »
I just got the Shadowhawk 2D2 after selling my 2nd Hunchback, still need to get the 4P so I can get my 4H to elite :P, but I digress. My first match out, I pulled the ML's, LRM and its ammo, dumped in a spare 265 XL I had laying around and went with a single AC5 (60) / 4xSSRM2 (400) and added more armor / heat sinks. Didn't have the C-Bills to upgrade to DHS, so I'm sporting 15 single Heat sinks at the moment.

Didn't have a killer punch, but was doing damage left and right on Terra Therma :) . My only issue was that despite having only 1 AC5 and 60 shots, I still ran out of ammo quickly as I tryied to do damage without the heat. I have since adjusted the ammo balance by dropping one ton of Streak ammo for another ton of AC5. It is my hope that when I can get Endo Steel and DHS's I'll be able to do...


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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #51 on: 11 December 2013, 20:45:07 »
Okay. It's almost a month later and I'm not my Atlas DC (ECM, 3LRM15, AC20, 2 ML) is my most efficient killer, but I'm surprised as hell that my 2D2 is keeping up with him. I downgraded my Shadowhawk Engine to a 255 XL (to reuse later, lots of mechs have a max Engine rating of 255), anywho, It's sporting an LB-10X (45) AMS (1000), 4 SSRM2 (200), and the standard 2ML back up. The extra LB-X ammo allows me to make a lot of pot shots and keep going. My 2 jump jets gets me where I need to go and lets hop up and pop off two LB-X shots, let loose with a full spread of SSRM's on Chainfire mode to keep the enemy rocking, and pew pew with the MLs which only go off once before the fall due to recharge time. The mobility and armor of the mech keep me going while I just keep doing damage. On hot maps, which frequently come up, all I do is drop the ML's and I still do a lot of damage while keeping heat way down. I don't even pay attention to my AMS, but it does it's thing while the 12 DHS's quietly do their thing. A VERY well rounded mech. :) I just came out of a match with 3 kills, 6 assists and 800+ damage, the last kill, I was completly out of ammo, but still pretty effective with the ML's that late in the game.  I can't wait to try the 3 Ballistic verison so I can spam MG's :)

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Vash The Stampede

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #52 on: 11 December 2013, 23:00:35 »
The Battlemaster is out of this world. THAT would be an awesome mini. A few seconds ago I was comparing the art of that to the unseen mini sitting in front of me. Quite the transformation, but I can still see its roots.
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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #53 on: 12 December 2013, 08:02:31 »
Okay. It's almost a month later and I'm not my Atlas DC (ECM, 3LRM15, AC20, 2 ML) is my most efficient killer, but I'm surprised as hell that my 2D2 is keeping up with him.
Easy fix:  replace one MLAS for a TAG system - now the DC will create havoc

Fatebringer

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Re: MWO: Project Phoenix!
« Reply #54 on: 12 December 2013, 09:52:20 »
I suppose I could do that, but it would kind of defeat the purpose of having ECM on an atlas if you're constantly point out, "HERE I AM GUYS!" with my laser pointer. Plus, I've only got 2 buttons to use, I prefer having the AC20 ready for any fast movers... It's so refreshing to pop them one and watch them fall like a mad cow being put down... :)

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