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Author Topic: What makes the Arkab Legions different?  (Read 6673 times)

epic

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #30 on: 04 December 2013, 18:50:54 »

  An interesting piece of fluff that illustrates this distinction rather well is that the Arkab Legions are not permitted to display the Kurita Dragon on their hardware.


As a small correction; is it not that they are not REQUIRED to display the Kurita Dragon?  I believe they have the equivalent of a religious dispensation from the Coordinator... or is my memory failing me?
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #31 on: 04 December 2013, 20:10:15 »
As a small correction; is it not that they are not REQUIRED to display the Kurita Dragon?  I believe they have the equivalent of a religious dispensation from the Coordinator... or is my memory failing me?

You're right.

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #32 on: 04 December 2013, 21:29:55 »
IIRC the mechs do not have the Dragon emblem, except for the Regimental Commander? For some reason I am thinking he has one on his mech, but its the only one in the whole regiment that does.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #33 on: 04 December 2013, 22:21:52 »
IIRC the mechs do not have the Dragon emblem, except for the Regimental Commander? For some reason I am thinking he has one on his mech, but its the only one in the whole regiment that does.

Yeah, that's the fluff I was misremembering.  Typically they don't wear the Kurita dragon; only the commander does to show solidarity and support.  And when the Azami are torqued by bad treatment, even he removes it.

Nodachi

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #34 on: 14 December 2013, 13:15:32 »
They would fit in pretty well. One thing I noticed from the Jihad books, it seems there was some culture from the DC that made it's way in, after proper filtering. The newscast of the meteor strike just seemed to have the right level of Combine influence the Azami let in. That may just be me though.

Kotetsu

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #35 on: 17 December 2013, 17:50:23 »
About the Azami and possible assault 'Mechs... Isn't Al-Nair one of the Atlas production plants?

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #36 on: 17 December 2013, 18:17:38 »
About the Azami and possible assault 'Mechs... Isn't Al-Nair one of the Atlas production plants?

Just because a planet has an Arabic name it doesn't mean it's an Azami planet.  This one happens to be, but allowing the Azami limited sovereignty and taking control of the armaments industry there are two different things.  Up until the 1st SW, it was a Terran Hegemony planet and when it was conquered in the 1st SW it wasn't affored all the same privileges that the 'Kuritan' Azami planets have.
« Last Edit: 17 December 2013, 18:20:36 by Tai Dai Cultist »

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #37 on: 17 December 2013, 21:06:04 »
About the Azami and possible assault 'Mechs... Isn't Al-Nair one of the Atlas production plants?
  The Azami worlds were established in Kurita space long before the Succession Wars, so Al-Na'ir wasn't a part of that confederation, as the system was still under the Terran Hegemony. After the system was liberated by the Draconis Combine, the Azami were treated with respect but not given full sovereignty as the other enclaves, although a major intercultural studies college exists in the system.

  Tactics-wise, the Azami wouldn't be interested in slow 'Mechs like the Atlas. It would be contrary the hit-and-run nature of their military doctrine.

  FYI: Most stars have Arabic names since the Arabs used them for navigation before stellar navigation was used at sea. Even Rasalhague is actually Ras al-Hawwa (the head of the snake-man constellation). Al-Na'ir (bright star of the Yoke constellation).

Shiro15

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #38 on: 26 February 2020, 11:10:57 »
Short answer: Because the Combine is more pragmatic than xenophobic.

Longer answer:  They DID try to assimilate them.  But due to diseases native to their world(s), foreign (Combine) troops would keep getting decimated whenever they invaded.  Once medical technology solved that problem, the Combine was so impressed by the fighting spirit of the Azami they allowed them semi-autonomy in exchange for tribute in the form of the troops they so admired.

Some more background info: The Azami are a fictional sect of Islam, separate from the real-world Shia and Sunni.  Part of the general backstory of the universe is that Islamic colonization is under-represented among the Inner Sphere directly because those two sects (in the fictional setting) both disapproved of living off-world.  (Difficulties in accomplishing the Hajj and all.. not to mention figuring out which way Mecca is for prayer)  The Azami is a fictional splinter sect that had no such compunctions about living away from Terra, and so many (if not most) Islamic colonies in the BTU are neither Sunni nor Shia but Azami.    While those worlds across the Inner Sphere have much in common culturally with Arkab, politically speaking they have little or nothing in common with the semi-autonomous region in that part of the Combine.

It took some years until I found this topic :) But nevertheless...

According to the old Kurita-Housebook (FASA-1620) the Azami are staunch followers of the Shi'ite section of Islam.
On the pages 117 ff. it is mentioned that in the fictional terran history of the Battletech universe the "wave of Shi'ite Moslem evangelism from Iran." reached North Africa and influenced especially the Touaregs, Hausas and Fulanis.
Also it is mentioned that one of the central mythological figures is the so called "Imam as Zaman", who is worshipped by the Shi'ites as the Mahdi while the Sunnis reject the Mahdi-concept.
Finally it is also mentioned that the Azami used the concept of taqiyya when officially accepting the Dictum Honorium of the Draconis Combine. The Taqiyya allows Shi' ites to pass themself off as mainline Sunni Moslems if it meant saving their life.

So according to this source I think that the Azamis are indeed the Shi' ites in Space :)

They are mentioned in some novels and source books like in the Heir for the dragon or in the Sourcebook "Invading clans" when they surprised the clans by fielding a complete batallion of Star League Mechs in the fight against them. I assume that the DCMS was also astonished about this fact ;)

Also interesting is the story of the 1st Arkab Legion : https://www.sarna.net/wiki/1st_Arkab_Legion

Frabby

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #39 on: 26 February 2020, 12:18:11 »
Fwiw, one of Randall Bills's tie-in stories for MW 5 has a MechWarrior from the early 31st century as protagonist. It's not canon for boardgame BT, but still...
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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #40 on: 27 February 2020, 23:15:53 »
I have an Arkab Legion company because, using the regimental rules, they halve the movement to-hit modifier.
We hear that there are tumults and riots in Rome, and that voices are raised concerning the army and the quality of our soldiers. Make haste to reassure us that you love and support us as we love and support you, for if we find that we have left our bones to bleach in these sands in vain, then beware the fury of the legions.


Shiro15

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #41 on: 01 March 2020, 10:01:36 »
We still play the classic tabletop (3025) here in Wiesbaden/Germany.

Some weeks ago I encountered contrast colors.
I never have used them before - so I painted around 60 of my miniatures as Mechs/ASF of the Arkab Legion.

Here a link of the result:
https://www.draconiscombine.de/fliegerbases-holz/2nd-arkab-legion

:)


truetanker

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #42 on: 04 March 2020, 22:26:23 »
I like the blue bases...

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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #43 on: 06 March 2020, 20:50:09 »
Also it is mentioned that one of the central mythological figures is the so called "Imam as Zaman", who is worshipped by the Shi'ites as the Mahdi while the Sunnis reject the Mahdi-concept.
  The problem with many of the early FASA books is that the research was poorly done. The Sunni/Shia split was political. The Sunni believed in the nobility maintaining control of government and religion while the Shiat Ali (followers of Ali, the Prophet's son in law) believe in a theocracy, where the direct descendents of Mohammed (peace be upon him!) would rule.
  Sunni Muslims believe that the Mahdi will be an ordinary man while the Shia quote the Prophet: "The Mahdi is of my lineage."

  Shia Muslims make up of just over 10% of the world's Muslims today. Shia are primarily centered in Iran, where many families can trace their lineages to the Prophet and his companions. I consider the idea of North Africans adopting the Shia sect kind of far fetched, unless you had an enclave of people who claimed succession to the Prophet, as in Iran. All I could do is accept the fiction at face value and not to apply too much real world rationality to it...

Quote
They are mentioned in some novels and source books like in the Heir for the dragon or in the Sourcebook "Invading clans" when they surprised the clans by fielding a complete batallion of Star League Mechs in the fight against them. I assume that the DCMS was also astonished about this fact ;)
  Considering the DCMS couldn't possibly supply replacement parts for Star League Mechs in Arkab inventory, I have to assume that the Azami had their own, discrete production...and I'm certain Comstar would be even more shocked that ROM never caught on over the centuries...That being said, the DCMS were not in "need to know" position, they'd just be a security risk.

truetanker

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #44 on: 06 March 2020, 22:40:32 »
Unless they didn't make them themselves... in that case maybe they had whole battalions any only swapped parts that needed repairs. Kinda like if a certain rank, whither religious or status,  needed a part, one was provided unless a loss of face resulted in replacing the Warrior with another. Just reuse the Mech, which the Star League was elite status.

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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #45 on: 07 March 2020, 02:53:34 »
Unless they didn't make them themselves... in that case maybe they had whole battalions any only swapped parts that needed repairs. Kinda like if a certain rank, whither religious or status,  needed a part, one was provided unless a loss of face resulted in replacing the Warrior with another. Just reuse the Mech, which the Star League was elite status.

TT
  I agree. There are ways of refurbishing components without having a manufacturing base. I have an Afghan musket in my collection that has a lock taken from a British Army Brown Bess, with a Tower of London Armory stamp dating from George III. The lock still works but the inner sear was replaced with one molded out of bronze. I took that concept and applied it to the Azami. Primitive people rarely develop a "use and discard" culture, anything that can be reused is valued. In my "Travels with Uncle Ahmed" stories, Azami merchants hunt through heaps of discarded salvage for circuit boards, just to glean them for components to refurbish Star League circuit boards and parts. In order to conceal their purchases, they also bought heaps of nearby useless components, but they kept comprehensive lists of what they were looking for. In 3025, most people wouldn't recognize Star League equipment in a pile of salvage, so the Azami had an advantage there. While they may not have had the means for full factory production, limited cottage industry would still have been possible and very discrete, with various clans specializing in particular components, enough to allow the operation of formations of Star League Battlemechs in pristine condition, as encountered by Clan Smoke Jaguar.

  Cray told me to figure it out...

Frabby

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #46 on: 07 March 2020, 03:05:20 »
Wish there was a way to republish the Uncle Ahmet stories and make them canon...
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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #47 on: 07 March 2020, 05:38:25 »
Wish there was a way to republish the Uncle Ahmet stories and make them canon...
  Now that I'm retired, I'm working on a full rewrite of my fiction, mostly to fill gaps of continuity, correct grammar and return a lot of the paragraphs that had to be edited out, due to length restrictions on these websites (Installments are limited to about 8 pages, which makes for short chapters).
   As far as canon...I won't hold my breath...Maybe I'll win the lottery and buy the rights...

truetanker

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #48 on: 07 March 2020, 12:01:16 »
What about PoD?

TT
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Shiro15

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #49 on: 07 March 2020, 18:42:09 »
I like the blue bases...

TT

I recently started to use flexible bases with a neodyn-magnet on their top (like shown in the pictures here: https://www.draconiscombine.de/12-02-2020-neodym-magnetbases ). So I can use my fighters with blue bases when we simulate fights in the atmosphere and black ones when in space.


Daryk

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #50 on: 07 March 2020, 19:09:18 »
That's a great idea!  :thumbsup:

Shiro15

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #51 on: 07 March 2020, 19:36:18 »
(...)
  Shia Muslims make up of just over 10% of the world's Muslims today. Shia are primarily centered in Iran, where many families can trace their lineages to the Prophet and his companions. I consider the idea of North Africans adopting the Shia sect kind of far fetched, unless you had an enclave of people who claimed succession to the Prophet, as in Iran. All I could do is accept the fiction at face value and not to apply too much real world rationality to it...
  Considering the DCMS couldn't possibly supply replacement parts for Star League Mechs in Arkab inventory, I have to assume that the Azami had their own, discrete production...and I'm certain Comstar would be even more shocked that ROM never caught on over the centuries...That being said, the DCMS were not in "need to know" position, they'd just be a security risk.

After the Iranian Sassanid Empire had fallen in the 7th century, the islamic arab conquerors tried to assimilate Iran. The dominating religion in the conquered and occupied iranian lands was first the sunni islam. Nevertheless the assimilation-attempt of the islamic arabs failed. The Iranians (who are not the same race as arabs) were finally successful in keeping their own identity. Two major points helped them to keep a distance to the arabs:
1. Unlike the other nations who were conquered by the islamic conquest the iranians did not replaced their language with the arabic language. The iranian poet Ferdowsi wrote the "Book of the Kings", an epic poem consisting of 50000 (!) double line verses, in iranian language. He specificly tried to avoid any arab word in his poem and created the key element to keep the iranian language alive until finally iranian rulers regained power in iranian territory.
2. In the 16th century - the ruling iranian Shah (King) wanted to devide his people from the dominating sunni empire: The turkish Ottomans had replaced the arabs as the leading sunnis. So the Shah proclaimed that Iran becomes a Shi'ite nation. To perform this religious change he requested the help from shiite clerics from the region but also from the area of today-lebanon.

But these are only some facts of the real history of our world.

In the BattleTech-universe it is described that a great and deadly plague hit North Africa. The same plague which saved btw centuries later the Azamis against the Kurita-invaders.
The north africans suffered because of this plague and for some reasons they adopted the shi' ite religion of Islam from Iran and became the "Azami". Maybe in this alternative universe the iranians sent medical help to North Africa combined with religious indoctrination.

Regarding the Star League equipment I totally agree that ComStar must have been also very surprised when the Azami used Star League Equipment against the Clans.
I dont think that the DCMS gave them these equipment (House Kurita got from ComStar some downgraded Star League Mechs and ASF for releasing Rasalhague in the independance). According to the 3039-war-book Theodore Kurita equipped only units which were absolutely loyal to him with these hardware: The Genyosha, the Ryuken and the Ghost regiments.
So I personally think that the Azami got their Star-League-equipment when they were part of the SLDF. During the SLDF-wars against the periphery states there was a Draconis-Auxiliary-Corps, consisting of 2 Sword-regiments, one Proserpina regiment and the 1st Arkab Legion. According to the source books the Arkab Legion fought in a honorable and human way - so while the enemies ordered to kill all Kuritans when they were taken prisoners the Arkab-Legion-warriors were specificly excluded from this kill-order.
Maybe not only the enemies but also the supply-officers of the SLDF were so impressed that they gave the Arkab Legion SLDF-hardware.
Still there is the question how the Azami managed to get these highend-equipment to one of their planets and how they managed to keep them operational after the fall of the Star League and the technological decline.
But it is a fascinating element of the BattleTech storyline :)

truetanker

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #52 on: 07 March 2020, 22:48:26 »
I smell a Blaine Pardoe story...

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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #53 on: 13 March 2020, 04:28:53 »
Regarding the Star League equipment I totally agree that ComStar must have been also very surprised when the Azami used Star League Equipment against the Clans.
  While the anecdote takes up a few lines of of FM: Draconis Combine (FASA1698) It was written as an in-House document after the ComStar/WoB split. That being said, who would tell ComStar? Not Clan Smoke Jaguar and certainly not the Arkab Legions.
I doubt the Arkab would even tell the DCMS, for security reasons.
Since ComStar opened up access to SL tech, I could see the Azami inquiring about obtaining blueprints and other schematics, with the cover of restoring old, downgraded machines to SL standards.

truetanker

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #54 on: 13 March 2020, 11:03:05 »
Azami in Nighthawks anybody?

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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #55 on: 13 March 2020, 17:08:09 »
Not all of them... just the Assassins...  ^-^

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What makes the Arkab Legions different?
« Reply #56 on: 20 March 2020, 04:52:12 »
  As per the OP, the Arkab Legions are different because they are not DCMS units. They do not train along DCMS lines, nor do they use standard DCMS doctrine. They are trained in combined arms, which is reflected in their TOE, as well as the main academy which they attend, Sun Tzu School of Combat.

  According to FM: Draconis Combine (FASA1698), which is written from the DCMS standpoint, the Azami are allies of the Draconis Combine, not subjects, although they pay symbolic lip service in the form of certain commanders displaying Dragon insignia, on a conditional basis.

  Some of the Azami worlds are exclusive Azami enclaves, while a couple are under dual administration, a practice that dates back to the Star League.

  Not all the Azami worlds were under DCMS control. Camlann and Tukayyid were Lyran systems while Al Na'ir was a Hegemony system. Markab was taken by the Fed Suns in the War of 3039. Since the writers never indicated a mass evacuation of Azami from these worlds, the original settlers remain there. While Tukayyid may have been evacuated for the Clan/ComStar showdown, the battle there wasn't large enough to cover the entire globe. WW2 was a much larger conflict with far more soldiers and greater tonnages of equipment yet the actual fighting was limited to parts of Asia and Europe, for the most part, so even a global war had little impact on most of the planet.

  While Azami enclaves inhabit worlds held by other factions, would the Azami be free to communicate and travel between those worlds? That question has yet to be answered.