Trial of Greivance / Position

[Colt Ward]

My mistake, it has been a while since I read the novel and I am not sure where it is . . . while I did just re-read Sword of Sedition.

[Kitsune413]

You werent really wrong. Pretty much was Natasha Kerensky twice.    ;D

[Kitsune413]

Star Captain Fleur Sender challenged her Star Captain to a trial of possession for his Tomahawk II with her Daishi.

After she won, she took his rank as Isorla.

[SteveRestless]

the general theme I'm sensing here is "Stomp someone hard enough and no one complains when you take their rank"

[Gray Jaguar]

the general theme I'm sensing here is "Stomp someone hard enough and no one complains when you take their rank"

Again, it depends on the Clan.  My Clan, Smoke Jaguar, would certainly look the overway if you were to earn your rank brutally destroying your opponent for the most part.  Someone from modern day Clan Wolf?  They'd likely frown on it depending on the situation especially if you were in the middle of a campaign.

Keep in mind these are general trends.  There are always exceptions to the rule and you have to watch out for those commanders whose methods and opinions vary from you the norm for your Clan.  You don't want to beat someone's pet after all.

[Colt Ward]

Dunno, Alaric executed two of the three opposing pilots during his Trial of Position- one of them a cadet.

[Gray Jaguar]

Dunno, Alaric executed two of the three opposing pilots during his Trial of Position- one of them a cadet.

As I said, there are exceptions to the rules.  Alaric is one of the biggest exceptions seeing as he is the living legacy of FedCom Civil War.

[Kitsune413]

Fleur Sender is a modern day wolf. She took a dudes rank as an afterthought after taking his mech.

Josem Hawker fights off frequent challenges for his rank and his horde of isorla..

Its not "some clans frown upon it" we have examples of every single "nice" clan allowing it whenever.

If you want to keep your rank, be vicious or be a kalasa. People like them so much they rarely receive challenges. There is one galaxy commander with the kalasa blood name who has never been challenged because he is such a good guy. (And his not being challenged is considered strange!)

[Colt Ward]

To be honest, it seems to often be portrayed as the younger warriors are the ones who think killing the opponent is required.  We see older warriors spare the younger though often couched in waste arguments.  For one example, Vlad Ward boasted of killing most or all (I cannot remember) of his opponents in the Trial of Bloodright when facing Phelan.  At the time he considered Phelan weak for not doing so- but later when he took the Bloodname in the pro forma Trial, his internal monologue was that he could kill them but did not need to as proof of his prowess.

[Hellraiser]

Well the initial Trial of Position is to see what rank the potential warrior qualifies as (if he/she qualifies at all that is).

I didn't say it wasn't.  My point is that its for # of promotions, not the actual rank title.

Subsequent trials and resulting promotions are not as clear cut as this nor does there have to be a spot open (superiors could authorize a warrior to challenge another warrior for his position in a Trial of Possession as Jake Kabrinski did in Test of Vengeance).  For example, rarely will a Khan authorize a junior officer to advance to the rank of Galaxy Commander as the position frequently requires political, administration and military skills that junior officers have not yet honed.  Alternatively, warriors in second-line units may request transfer to a front-line unit in lieu of promotion.

This is true but doesn't invalidate what I was saying.
My point is you don't HAVE to challenge someone for the position.
All warriors go through annual testing to keep their rank & to qualify for promotions.

There are many other issues that would affect the trial results and subsequent promotion/demotion with the most obvious ones being politics, whether the Clan politics, philosophical Warden vs Crusader or House politics, as well as personal relationships can help or hinder advancement or slow a warrior's decline.  For example, Rossou Howell was "promoted" from an IS front-line unit to Galaxy Commander of a Homeworlds second-line galaxy which in actuality was a demotion.  In addition, some Clans won't allow warriors taken as isorla who have tested into their new Clan's warrior caste to advance beyond a certain rank regardless of the results of their annual Trial of Position.

What your given & what you on paper are qualified for are 2 different things.  You might get 7 Kills in your initial ToP after instigating a melee but that doesn't mean your getting promoted to Khan.  I never said that it was automatic, just that you qualified for your position each year & could "test up" or "test down" & don't have to get 3 kills to get promoted past Star Captain.

[SteveRestless]

What your given & what you on paper are qualified for are 2 different things.  You might get 7 Kills in your initial ToP after instigating a melee but that doesn't mean your getting promoted to Khan.  I never said that it was automatic, just that you qualified for your position each year & could "test up" or "test down" & don't have to get 3 kills to get promoted past Star Captain.

Well, first, Khan is one of the few elected positions in the clan, second, its been directly stated (though I forget where) that if you surpass 3 kills in your first ToP you're more likely to get "Star Captain, and some sort of bonus" than "Star Colonel" as a noob right out of sibko.

[Josva Valdreki]

Well, first, Khan is one of the few elected positions in the clan, second, its been directly stated (though I forget where) that if you surpass 3 kills in your first ToP you're more likely to get "Star Captain, and some sort of bonus" than "Star Colonel" as a noob right out of sibko.

I hadn't heard that, although I imagine that's something that is pretty unlikely.

I mean, so far, the only people to have succeeded at it (Natasha, Alaric, Anastasia?) have either been reclaiming a prior rank (as with Alaric) or receiving a rank with responsibilities commensurate with their previous positions (Natasha with Black Widow Bn., Wolf's Dragoons and Anastasia with the Wolf Hunters).

[rebs]

Well, first, Khan is one of the few elected positions in the clan, second, its been directly stated (though I forget where) that if you surpass 3 kills in your first ToP you're more likely to get "Star Captain, and some sort of bonus" than "Star Colonel" as a noob right out of sibko.

I could see a warrior with an outstanding three or more kill Trial of Position also being promised first crack at any open bloodname with a guaranteed sponsor for nomination to groom the warrior for life as a ristar right out of the gate.  Marcus Radick-types have to spring from somewhere, I figure.  This seems likely, though is not canon, of course.

[SteveRestless]

Yeah, it was horribly unspecific what the "bonus" they'd get would be. I always figured it'd be something like being able to choose any mech they wanted, or being granted something like a Warwolf in 3145 when they're still less common, or an Orion IIc or some other prestige mech.

Chances are, if you're that good, and continue to demonstrate the fact, lots of things will be coming your way in the clans.

[Archangel]

Well the "bonus" would probably range from simply being labeled a ristar (which would be a tremendous deal for a minor Bloodhouse - it would also put one on the shortlist for nomination for a Bloodname) to instead of being assigned to a second-line unit going straight to a frontline unit to being able to choose one's initial assignment.

[Josva Valdreki]

I imagine anybody scoring more than one kill in their initial Trial of Position is probably going to be labeled a ristar. Anyone scoring more than two, I would think, would definitely be labeled a ristar. I don't know if there's any data on attrition rates, but in the fiction a lot of MechWarriors and Star Commanders seem to be 'old hands', which to me would seem to indicate that anyone who makes Star Commander fresh out of the sibko a ristar.

[Colt Ward]

Well, IMO it sort of works like this . . .

Get your two kills, congratulations you are now a Star Commander . . . depending on bloodhouse, style points, and method of victory you might end up in a frontline unit (note all those factors apply to the cadet with a single kill) but the odds are not in your favor (but more than those with single kills).  If you do get in a frontline unit, it will very likely NOT be the Alpha or Beta (or the equivalent for Falcon fans) as even a simple mechwarrior in that unit has more prestige than secondline/garrison Star Commanders.

If you do not end up in the frontline unit you will end up with a upper tier secondline force, something that sees action but not as much or intense as a frontline unit.  This is to season the fresh sibbie officer though depending on the Galaxy Commander or Star Colonel it could be rough- thrown in with a new Star Captain (or Star Colonel) which means things could be more difficult because they are learning, or given to an old hand to keep the sibbie from getting out of control.

Just for the Wolves- an Orion IIC would not happen at this point as the new officer is still relatively untested.  Orion IICs go to warriors who are about to become Star Colonels or perhaps Star Captains in Alpha/Beta when the next opening is available.  Or warriors who are expected to win a bloodname with relative ease for the next open name.

Depending on the Clan & timeframe . . . not sure how many sibbie officers in secondline units would be assigned a Omni.  It is less wasteful to give them to proven warriors who can get the most effectiveness out of the unit.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I imagine getting more than four kills in a Trial of Position: label you a ristar, give you a shot at a Bloodname almost immediately, position to a frontline Galaxy, a good Omnimech with tech or two, and the attention of a senior warrior (a Galaxy Commander or Khan) to sponsor you a unit of your own perhaps.

Getting seven kills.... I can only dream of the rewards for such an achievement. Certainly not a Khanship, but at least Star Colonel (plus previous mentioned benefits), and god knows what else... mabye  propagation of a new Bloodname for them to choose? The thought is mind boggling.

[Archangel]

Getting seven kills.... I can only dream of the rewards for such an achievement. Certainly not a Khanship, but at least Star Colonel (plus previous mentioned benefits), and god knows what else... mabye  propagation of a new Bloodname for them to choose? The thought is mind boggling.

*Pfft* Such a warrior wouldn't want command of a Cluster.  A Cluster would only slow them down as they take world after world on their own.   ;D

[StCptMara]

Getting seven kills.... I can only dream of the rewards for such an achievement. Certainly not a Khanship, but at least Star Colonel (plus previous mentioned benefits), and god knows what else... mabye  propagation of a new Bloodname for them to choose? The thought is mind boggling.

Yeah...this is one of those instances where: in game, we have done things that would make people's
heads in-universe explode. I have never managed that, in game, but have managed to get 5 kills in
a Trial of Position. Which was a completely crazy thing to have happen...