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Author Topic: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread  (Read 78056 times)

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #390 on: 21 October 2013, 18:48:37 »
Good point on the Magistracy.  You can even argue there are benefits to Niops having a large population of Capellan-descended citizens, though, again, that opens up other cans of worms depending on what the 3145 era balance of power is between the upper and lower classes.

You know, if Niops does begin local production of the Space Hound to support their germanium mining efforts and supply Interstellar Expeditions, they could also put that fusion plant to use on another design: the Mercury.  That'd give them a scout unit with an old-school SLDF feel.
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truetanker

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #391 on: 21 October 2013, 18:59:11 »
Mercury
Whitworth
Rotudra
Locust

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #392 on: 21 October 2013, 19:14:19 »
Mercury

8/12, needs MASC and Ferro for the advanced version, but the -98 is available as an intro tech version.
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Whitworth

Oddly enough, this isn't bad as a basic trooper, though it's perhaps better as fire support.

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Rotudra

Ah, yes, the fusion-powered Porsche 928 that masses as much as an IFV
 This design could only come from SLDF procurement. ;)

 
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Locust

TT

Another old favorite. :)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #393 on: 21 October 2013, 19:48:15 »
I see. I wouldn't worry about the original Enforcer anyways, with all the great variants.

But I think the benefits of standardization far outweighs diversification for a beginner army. Field repairs and training the techs are made easier. Of course, once Niops becomes sufficiently advanced again, diversification would be a good thing.

Another benefit of the 200-rating fusion engines on the Lightning ASF & Enforcer (or Centurion, or Hunchback), is that it opens the door to two vehicles to support your armor and infantry corps, which Niops is placing more emphasis on these days, anyway:  the Chaparral, with its Arrow IV launcher to provide the NAM with some artillery...and the Myrmidon, which I'd completely forgotten existed, since I haven't seen my copy of TR3060 in ages (I'd never replaced the dead tree version with a PDF).  At 40 tons, moving 5/8, with a PPC and SRM-6, and 9 tons of armor, it's a decent choice to use as a main battle tank for Niops.

Maybe Lightnings, Myrmidons and Chaparrals, backed by Whitworths and Mercurys/Locusts, with Space Hounds going to keep the mines open and sales to Interstellar Expeditions.
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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #394 on: 21 October 2013, 22:10:20 »
Ah, yes, the fusion-powered Porsche 928 that masses as much as an IFV
 This design could only come from SLDF procurement. ;)

You'd figure the fact that the 'sports car' is throwing up rooster tails of pavement and turning like a cement truck would give it away, eh?

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #395 on: 21 October 2013, 22:23:25 »
Sarissa as well, 200 GM.

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #396 on: 22 October 2013, 10:50:20 »
Good point on the Magistracy.  You can even argue there are benefits to Niops having a large population of Capellan-descended citizens, though, again, that opens up other cans of worms depending on what the 3145 era balance of power is between the upper and lower classes.

Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

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Ah, yes, the fusion-powered Porsche 928 that masses as much as an IFV
 This design could only come from SLDF procurement. ;)

I always wondered how such a car could get past weight sensors or something to be a spy car.

Another benefit of the 200-rating fusion engines on the Lightning ASF & Enforcer (or Centurion, or Hunchback), is that it opens the door to two vehicles to support your armor and infantry corps, which Niops is placing more emphasis on these days, anyway:  the Chaparral, with its Arrow IV launcher to provide the NAM with some artillery...and the Myrmidon, which I'd completely forgotten existed, since I haven't seen my copy of TR3060 in ages (I'd never replaced the dead tree version with a PDF).  At 40 tons, moving 5/8, with a PPC and SRM-6, and 9 tons of armor, it's a decent choice to use as a main battle tank for Niops.

Maybe Lightnings, Myrmidons and Chaparrals, backed by Whitworths and Mercurys/Locusts, with Space Hounds going to keep the mines open and sales to Interstellar Expeditions.

All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #397 on: 22 October 2013, 11:10:17 »
Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

I honestly don't think Xin Sheng would work well on Niops' Capellan refugee descendents. I've come to imagine them as being more Tikonov Commonality based for some reason, so the overtly Han-centric cultural overtones in Xin Sheng really wouldn't appeal, and at this point all they know about the Confederation is that it was someplace great-grandma and great-grandpa really didn't want to be anymore.

But I can definitely see God Empress Ilsa Centrella-Liao wanting to exert her influence, since it is relatively near her ever-expanding realm... ;)

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All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I have a sentimental attachment to the Locust as it was the first mini I ever acquired.

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I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation

The Blakists were mostly after minerals and usable materials, which would mean Niops V. The nuke that went off in the capital would likely have done considerable damage to the main research facilities, as they grew up around the initial colony on Niops VII (or vice versa, actually).

But one would think that Niops might be able to do some interesting things with lasers, what with their expertise with optics.  :)


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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #398 on: 22 October 2013, 11:40:11 »
Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

I always wondered how such a car could get past weight sensors or something to be a spy car.

All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation
Intro-Tech Mercury is armed just as well as any Intro-tech Locust, so there's not much to argue against it
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #399 on: 22 October 2013, 12:22:31 »
Sarissa as well, 200 GM.

TT

Pretty solidly a Regulan/FWL design, and I don't see Niops asking for blueprints.

You'd figure the fact that the 'sports car' is throwing up rooster tails of pavement and turning like a cement truck would give it away, eh?

Yup.  Real 928s can still do rooster tails of pavement, but they turn on a dime.

Intro-Tech Mercury is armed just as well as any Intro-tech Locust, so there's not much to argue against it

Indeed, and it has hands.  Armor placement is a bit wonky, though.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #400 on: 22 October 2013, 13:13:32 »
Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

Especially given so many of their citizens' ancestors ran screaming from the Capellan Confederation in the first place?

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I always wondered how such a car could get past weight sensors or something to be a spy car.

Weight of the safety gear mandated by the Star League Highway Transportation Safety Administration to all cars.


Quote
All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation

Some of it?  Possibly.  That doesn't mesm they'd have the industrial refinement to build any of it... and they certainly wouldn't want to advertise the fact if they could.

I honestly don't think Xin Sheng would work well on Niops' Capellan refugee descendents. I've come to imagine them as being more Tikonov Commonality based for some reason, so the overtly Han-centric cultural overtones in Xin Sheng really wouldn't appeal, and at this point all they know about the Confederation is that it was someplace great-grandma and great-grandpa really didn't want to be anymore.

But I can definitely see God Empress Ilsa Centrella-Liao wanting to exert her influence, since it is relatively near her ever-expanding realm... ;)

So, more Russian than Chinese?

And, yeah, attracting the attention of any of the nationalistic expansionistic groups would be... bad for Niops.

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I have a sentimental attachment to the Locust as it was the first mini I ever acquired.

Mine was the Phoenix Hawk. :)

The reason I suggested the Mercury over the Locust is threefold:

1.  While the SLDF used Locusts, so did everyone else.  The Mercury was a rarer bird, and one the Militia may consider superior to the Locust, since it was originally slated to be its replacement.  Even a lowtech -98 may be seen as superior.

2.  The Mercury has hands, which makes it useful for combat engineering tasks.  In a way, it can replace Wasps and Stingers because of this, as well, despite the lack of jump jets, especially because of:

3.  With its modular weapons and equipment, it's one step shy of being a true OmniMech, and the fluff for the MCY-99 implies ComStar and WoB largely used it like one.  I can't see it as being far off from turning into a true Omni, which would make for a neat homegrown Niops design.

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The Blakists were mostly after minerals and usable materials, which would mean Niops V. The nuke that went off in the capital would likely have done considerable damage to the main research facilities, as they grew up around the initial colony on Niops VII (or vice versa, actually).

But one would think that Niops might be able to do some interesting things with lasers, what with their expertise with optics.  :)

Which is a good point, actually.  It also makes me wonder how Niops could pray its knowledge elf radio telescopes to battlefield usage, and what other scientific research Niops does:  particle physics, for example?

Also, was most of the mining on Niops V?  I've seen conflicting sources on Workshop locations (or, more likely, they had Workshops on both V and VI at minimum), but the only clear indicator I've seen of locations for mining was the space mining they're doing with Interstellar Operations.
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truetanker

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #401 on: 22 October 2013, 19:35:11 »
See I'd still make due with Wyvern-5Nsl and Thug-11Eb.

Better to have good ol' fashion SL-era for support.

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #402 on: 22 October 2013, 23:22:17 »
See I'd still make due with Wyvern-5Nsl and Thug-11Eb.

Better to have good ol' fashion SL-era for support.

TT

Yep, it's great...if you can build them.  With Niops having to rebuild the workshops from scratch, odds are they're not going to immediately going to be able to jump to building SLDF Royal BattleMechs.  In fact, unless we've got confirmation that they had, at one point, built the Rapier or Ironsides, we can't even be sure pre-Jihad that Niops could build double heat sinks: they weren't necessary for the Black Knight or Highlander.

Anyone got Field Manual Periphery handy?  That had the most detailed writeup on Niops designs in use by NAM, and I can't find my dead tree copy.
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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #403 on: 23 October 2013, 06:41:15 »
I honestly don't think Xin Sheng would work well on Niops' Capellan refugee descendents. I've come to imagine them as being more Tikonov Commonality based for some reason, so the overtly Han-centric cultural overtones in Xin Sheng really wouldn't appeal, and at this point all they know about the Confederation is that it was someplace great-grandma and great-grandpa really didn't want to be anymore.

Russian eh? I have no idea how to make of that...seems a bit far for the Russians to journey seeing as they are concentrated in the Tikonov region

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Especially given so many of their citizens' ancestors ran screaming from the Capellan Confederation in the first place?

Well, there's that second-class treatment and the Xin Sheng stuff to rile them up..

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Indeed, and it has hands.  Armor placement is a bit wonky, though.

I suggested the Locust because it has a lot of low-tech varieties like the RL version -1V2 and there would be plenty of spare parts to repair it with either from native sources or enemy salvage.

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #404 on: 23 October 2013, 07:52:50 »
. . . we can't even be sure pre-Jihad that Niops could build double heat sinks: they weren't necessary for the Black Knight or Highlander.

 . . . the Royal does . . . which I would be inclined to say they have considering the Nighthawk.  Even then, they are a bunch of eggheads, they should have been able to do the math for the efficiency increase.
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Niopsian

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #405 on: 23 October 2013, 09:55:38 »
Yep, it's great...if you can build them.  With Niops having to rebuild the workshops from scratch, odds are they're not going to immediately going to be able to jump to building SLDF Royal BattleMechs.  In fact, unless we've got confirmation that they had, at one point, built the Rapier or Ironsides, we can't even be sure pre-Jihad that Niops could build double heat sinks: they weren't necessary for the Black Knight or Highlander.

Anyone got Field Manual Periphery handy?  That had the most detailed writeup on Niops designs in use by NAM, and I can't find my dead tree copy.

It only mentions the Highlander, Black Knight and Burke by name. But in the rules annex it does say that the NAM rolls on the ComStar column in the BMR Inner Sphere table.

Oh, for the Halcyon days of 2001! ;D


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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #406 on: 23 October 2013, 09:57:00 »
Oh, for the Halcyon days of 2001! ;D

Everybody but the Cappies, Canopians and Dracs would be saying that ;)

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #407 on: 23 October 2013, 13:07:07 »
It only mentions the Highlander, Black Knight and Burke by name. But in the rules annex it does say that the NAM rolls on the ComStar column in the BMR Inner Sphere table.

Oh, for the Halcyon days of 2001! ;D

Well, then, once upon a time, I'd wager double hear sinks and XL engines were within the reach of the Workshops.  And, yeah, talk about a downward spiral...

Everybody but the Cappies, Canopians and Dracs would be saying that ;)

Which is why I suspect our little intellectual exercise here won't go far if and when the Powers That Be decide Niops begins manufacturing military hardware again.

If we're lucky, we'll start up production of the BNC-1E, or manage to buy the surplus tooling for the MSK-5S Mackie (the PPC + LL + AC/5 prototype one) the Lyrans used during the Jihad then mothballed afterwards.

If not... well, it's a toss-up between the WSP-1 or the SHD-1R, I'd wager.  Good thing people are still selling us 'Mechs right now, eh?
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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #408 on: 24 October 2013, 10:57:03 »
Hopefully its stuff like the Stalker II that's bought instead of fancy units like Quasimodo. The Stalker II can run solo against a company of pirates >:D

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #409 on: 24 October 2013, 11:37:38 »
Lol . . . plant that assault mech with the most likely raider targets and let them drive themselves upon your swords.

That said, I still favor building the Royal Crab with some heavy or assault tracked armor for lines.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #410 on: 24 October 2013, 12:11:33 »
Lol . . . plant that assault mech with the most likely raider targets and let them drive themselves upon your swords.

That said, I still favor building the Royal Crab with some heavy or assault tracked armor for lines.

Agreed.  The Royal Crab is just about perfect.

Unfortunately, that probably means Niops will either end up building the SHD-1R Shadow Hawk with its AC/5 of Doom for local defense, or perhaps Patron MilitiaMechs.
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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #411 on: 25 October 2013, 10:22:11 »
At least the AC5 has alternate munitions for use.. the Patron has no such redeemable feature

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #412 on: 25 October 2013, 12:54:11 »
At least the AC5 has alternate munitions for use.. the Patron has no such redeemable feature

Yup.

I find it funny that Niops has appeared to have abandoned the idea of domestic production of major military hardware, one of the things that made them unique among the various tiny Periphery factions, at the same time both Randis and New St. Andrews have initiated theirs, then continued to expand in terms of both number and quality of designs.
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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #413 on: 26 October 2013, 05:30:48 »
Perhaps they were that exhausted after the Jihad....it was their version of the Succession Wars that almost bombed them back to the Stone Age?

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #414 on: 28 October 2013, 11:13:09 »
or perhaps some of the tools and equipment found in the shops was still unrecovered Lostech, and they got damaged/destroyed to the point they can't really make the parts they need any more. 
Niops had the problem of not really having an infrastructure.. if they lost their star league era tools, they have little to fall back on. in order to do domestic production again, they'd have to build an infrastrucuture from virtually the ground up.. they'd have to get the tools that build the tools that build the tools.

and if some of their old success was due to having special tools no one else did.. well they might never recover their old abilities. and it doesn't help they are one system with limited resources and no real profitable exports. (the scientific data they'd collected over centuries being an exception.. but that was certainly a one time thing.)

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #415 on: 28 October 2013, 11:21:49 »
A Nyops has left the baggage of knowledge of star systems not visited by its neighbors, might get some resources for negotiating these systems manufactured by little, clear that the data should checked after the state informed and receive the data might not display according to these systems but could start with that

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #416 on: 28 October 2013, 17:12:17 »
or perhaps some of the tools and equipment found in the shops was still unrecovered Lostech, and they got damaged/destroyed to the point they can't really make the parts they need any more. 
Niops had the problem of not really having an infrastructure.. if they lost their star league era tools, they have little to fall back on. in order to do domestic production again, they'd have to build an infrastrucuture from virtually the ground up.. they'd have to get the tools that build the tools that build the tools.

and if some of their old success was due to having special tools no one else did.. well they might never recover their old abilities. and it doesn't help they are one system with limited resources and no real profitable exports. (the scientific data they'd collected over centuries being an exception.. but that was certainly a one time thing.)

I'm not sure they're not still selling scientific research, though the Niops government does have half its income coming from germanium mining at this point. Also, they had the funds to round out 'Mech regiment (well, 85% of one), plus their infantry/vehicle regiments (which are still the majority of NAM).

As of Field Manual 3085, the Militia was down to two battalions of 'Mechs (one scattered one that survived the Blakist invasion, and one presumably rebuilt from salvage), and two aerospace squadrons.  That would have given them around 72 'Mechs and 12 fighters.  The 85% strength figure in Field Manual 3145 implies 92 'Mechs, if no command company is attached, or 102 if it is, so assuming no attrition of 'Mechs between 3085 and 3145, Niops only bought between 18 and 30 'Mechs.  Not as much as I thought, actually.

One interesting thing to consider is that 'Mech losses for Niops were around 75%, and aerospace losses around 78%.  Considering they fielded four regiments (one battalion of 'Mechs per regiment, the rest infantry and vehicles) of ground forces, then less than a company of non-'Mech forces survived the Blakist invasion.  Those limited numbers of Nighthawks guarding Niops VII's governmental buildings?  Yeah, their original wearers might have been the only infantry to make it through the invasion.  In light of that, I find it puzzling that Niops is focusing on infantry and vehicles, given how badly they took it in the shorts.

But, yes, I expect that, if Niops does start building new 'Mechs, they'll either have to buy the whole production line and tooling lock, stock and barrel, and may still have to start with Primitives, simply because their lower tech base requires less high-tech tooling and production.  Buying the MSK-5S Mackie line from the Lyrans may be very attractive, then.
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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #417 on: 28 October 2013, 20:20:29 »
well, my point is that scientific research is hardly a big money item.. odds are the reason they got so much that first time was because it was several centuries in one package.. year by year sales as they go on isn't likely to bring as much in. maybe enough to do upkeep on what they have but not really enough to rebuild a whole infrastructure.

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #418 on: 28 October 2013, 20:46:47 »
To rebuild infrastructure, or build almost from scratch requires an inverter ... maybe Interstellar Expeditions interested in investing in some minor factory for making or repairing vehicles and mechs, may seem small but it's a start.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #419 on: 28 October 2013, 22:04:25 »
I can almost guarantee that Interstellar Expeditions could use more Rock Hounds: they're one if the major backers of the design.  And Niops could certainly use its variant, the Space Hound, for its own asteroid mining.  Given how in bed Niops is with Interstellar Expeditions these days, that would be a likely production line.
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

 

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