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Author Topic: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!  (Read 30175 times)

Top Sergeant

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #330 on: 18 June 2018, 07:23:38 »
I went to Origins last week and while I was there I handed out a sheet listing my last 20 unassigned Battlemech miniatures which appear on the CCAF forces roster and asked them to selected 12 for me, and that's going to be my last CCAF unit, Warrior House Matsukai.

The 20 nominees: Pillager (x2), Atlas, Yu Huang, Longbow, Awesome, Cataphract, Avatar, Lao Hu, Men Shen, Hunchback, Sha yu (x2), Dervish, Firestarter Omni, Snake, Hermes, Jenner, Firestarter, Wasp.

They could pick any 12, using whatever criteria they wished. What I got back isn't exactly what I would have done but I think it will be fun and it gets me out of my rut. Every 'Mech got at least one vote, yes that includes the Wasp and Firestarter!

The Matsukai Company is as follows:

Pillager
Pillager
Yu Huang
Longbow
Awesome
Cataphract
Avatar
Lao Hu
Men Shen
Sha Yu
Firestarter Omni
Snake

Each of the above got at least 6 votes. The remaining eight 'mechs received no more than 4 each: Sha Yu (4), Dervish (4), Jenner (4), Atlas (3), Hunchback (3), Firestarter (2), Hermes (1), Wasp (1)

So what do you all think of the Company as it turned out? What 12 would you have chosen? When I (eventually) get them painted I will post pictures.
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JadedFalcon

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #331 on: 19 June 2018, 23:55:10 »
Don't know if I can improve on the choices, given the menu. I would swap the places for the Yu Huang and Awesome, to keep the second lance more mobile and make the first lance more of a dedicated fire lance. That gives you a solid long-range lance that can soak firepower, a versatile heavyweight battle lance, and a speedy striker lance.

I do recommend making one of the Pillagers the Arrow-IV variant.

If you're missing anything, it's the infantry! The three omnis can lift battle armor with ease and the Fa Shih should latch onto the rest.

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #332 on: 26 June 2018, 06:32:38 »
Gents,

Some help if I may request it. I'm preparing for a Dark Age CCAF augmented battalion - great uses for appropriate DA vehicles & BA. This would be, if not a 'second line' unit, a garrison unit designed around urban warfare. Here's the structure to date:

Command   
    (m)
    Rifleman IIC 8
    Catapult
    (m)
    Morningstar
    Morningstar Company Command
Artillery   
    Padilla
    Padilla
    Padilla
    Padilla
    (m)
   (m)
Fire Support   
    JES III C3
    JES III C3
    JES III C3
    JES III C3
    Quickdraw
    (m)
Urban Assault   
    Zahn
    Zahn
    BA
   BA
    BA
    BA
    Carnivore IS
    Carnivore IS
    (sv)
Recon/Probe   
    Shun
    Shun
    Hawk Moth II
    Hawk Moth II
    BA
    BA
    BA
    BA
Defense   
    UrbanMech AIV
    UrbanMech
    UrbanMech
    UrbanMech
    (sv)
    (sv)
Brawler/Striker   
    Crusader
    (m)
    (m)
    (m)
    Fa Shih
    Fa Shih
    Fa Shih
    Fa Shih

So the first lance is obviously the command lance, general purpose reserve, plus the ability to link 10 other C3 slaves.
Second lance is artillery - I'm torn between having the two 'Mechs bodyguards, or spotters. Thoughts?
Third lance is indirect fire support, with the ability to link to C3 spotters. Definitely two bodyguard 'Mechs here.
Fourth lance is "urban assault" - two Zahns, four squads of BA, and two Carnivore IS version, to attack that city block.
Fifth lance is fast recon/strike - four squads of jump BA can exit the Shun at speed, with the Hawk Moth IIs as spotters
Sixth lance is defence - four Urbies, plus two slow tanks (think Zhukov, or Behemoth).
Seventh lance is "cavalry" - four fast brawler-types with integral Fa Shih squads

Wherever I've listed a name, I've already got the mini. What I'm looking for is suggestions for the holes in the TO&E that

1) Are available to CCAF in DA
2) Aren't mega-front-line - no Clan omnis, no shiny new stuff - this is a garrison/occupation unit after all
3) "feel" Capellan
4) Exist as a mini (or an easily modded mini).

Thoughts, please?

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Von Rohrs

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #333 on: 26 June 2018, 10:01:27 »
@Top Sergeant I wouldn't have taken the Longbow going with stealth Hunchy or Sha Yu. Not that I think that's better I just don't like the Longbow.

@Worktroll Did they change it again? You should have 54 slots not 49? Command lance plus 4x companies of two lances of 6. Beyond that idk Catapult for the third lance Ti Tsang for the seventh? I'd go with bodyguards for the second,but I think more that we have different styles. Tian-Zong for the command slot too shiny?

truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #334 on: 26 June 2018, 14:31:24 »
Why not older Aug Formation?

TT
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Decoy

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #335 on: 26 June 2018, 20:44:51 »
I see your Rifle(man) but where are your Guns? They're made expressly for Garrison units (Atleast that's how the Confederation is described as using them.)

Thunders and Lao Shu are now generations old. The Confederation is being described as buying as many Avalanches as they can. Besides that, I'm fond of the design. Calliopes are popular and where are the Vindicators and Ravens?  I'm also fond of the MHL-2L Marshal.

*Goes off and hides*

JadedFalcon

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #336 on: 27 June 2018, 00:13:31 »
I see your Rifle(man) but where are your Guns? They're made expressly for Garrison units (Atleast that's how the Confederation is described as using them.)

Thunders and Lao Shu are now generations old. The Confederation is being described as buying as many Avalanches as they can. Besides that, I'm fond of the design. Calliopes are popular and where are the Vindicators and Ravens?  I'm also fond of the MHL-2L Marshal.

*Goes off and hides*

Kinda depends where they're coming from. Something in the Victoria Commonality might have more aging Vindicators, but a newly raised unit like the Tikonov Guards may have newer made filler units like the Firebee and the ASN-23 Assassin. Republic mechs may also be present in the units being raised or garrisoning former Republic worlds.

Von Rohrs

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #337 on: 28 June 2018, 17:04:25 »
Why not older Aug Formation?

TT

Why would someone want that? Unless it was part of some kind of malicious plot that involved saddling a promising Sao-shao/Major with a rag tag unit. In other words I saw your post on the next page, and realized you may have talking to me. In which case because there's a command lance, and the seventh lance is 4 mechs + 4 BA. Also without the fourth company you're more likely to get anemia than augmentation.

(Half 3039! I mean I like endo, DHS, and CASE but i'm figuring I've missed a TRO)
« Last Edit: 29 June 2018, 10:01:01 by Von Rohrs »

truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #338 on: 29 June 2018, 00:11:20 »
But use the Formations WITH 3039 tech.

Command:
4 Mechs, 2 BA

Aug Lance 1:
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks

Aug Lance 2:
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks

Aug Lance 3:
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
4 Mechs, 2 BA

Aug Lance 4:
4 Tanks, 4 BA
4 Tanks, 4 BA

TT
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glitterboy2098

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #339 on: 29 June 2018, 00:13:06 »
3039 wouldn't have had BA though.

and i like the Augmented lances.. especially in Alpha Strike, where they are easier to use. my own unit was designed with 4 Augmented Lances.. a Fire Lance (doubling as a command lance), recon lance, and Pursuit lance with BA, and a Heavy battle Lance with a pair of tanks.
« Last Edit: 29 June 2018, 00:16:04 by glitterboy2098 »

truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #340 on: 29 June 2018, 00:16:11 »
Who says it has to be 3039?

If this was DA, I'd run a garrison with older 3039-3050 tech in a heart beat!

TT
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Von Rohrs

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #341 on: 29 June 2018, 09:57:29 »
I may have lost the thread of the the conversation. The CCAF uses command companies which is why I once nominally used a reinforced augmented regiment. There's no reason for Worktroll not to be using a deviation or transitional formation (more so with that B/S lance), but if it was older aug it would be a six or a reinforced eight lance battalion without a command lance. 

 I'm not sure if you're talking about refits (a TRO I missed) or slapping endo/DHS/case/? on 3025 designs.

@glitterboy2098 I'm referring to commissar truetanker's Weird Liao Ideas... What makes you special? thread, but since another quarter is 3050 any BA would just eat up your advanced tech anyway.
« Last Edit: 29 June 2018, 10:02:29 by Von Rohrs »

HuronWarrior

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #342 on: 09 March 2019, 12:05:48 »
Seeing as this is the home of the Capellans, I feel this would be a good place to ask: what kind of mechs was the Confederation making in the immediate aftermath of the 4th Succession Wars? Just Vindicators and Bugs?

skiltao

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #343 on: 09 March 2019, 17:42:06 »
Seeing as this is the home of the Capellans, I feel this would be a good place to ask: what kind of mechs was the Confederation making in the immediate aftermath of the 4th Succession Wars? Just Vindicators and Bugs?

FASA's 20 Year Update (page 60) says the Confederation's four remaining 'Mech plants were shut down while secondary facilities were rebuilt.
  • An illustration on the next page shows a Charger being disassembled in a design lab, next to schematics for a Hatamoto. (My headcanon is the Confederation shut down Hunchback and Charger lines sometime after 3039 in order to make the AC/20 Charger.)
  • The Ceres Metals plant on Capella is said to have everything it needs for Vindicators built on-world, so it was probably first to resume production. I would bet it only builds Vindicators.
  • Betelgeuse's production is unknown to me. Its about half the size of the plants on Capella or Grand Base.
  • TR:3050 describes the site on Ares as a "partially rebuilt Bergan Industries plant" producing Locust-1Vs with flawed TSM. The site was pretty small, so that may be all it builds.
  • The Earthwerks plant on Grand Base was the biggest, newest, and (in 3036) last to reopen. It builds Cataphracts and presumably other things too.
  • I believe Hellespont's Raven facility on Sian is new, and probably small. I'd be surprised if it did more than trickle out Ravens.
  • TR:3050 has the Confederation in 3051 issuing "Field Modification Kits" for the UrbanMech, Clint, Catapult, and Crusader. The old House Liao book mentions "new" Catapults in the 2930s.
TR:3050 mentions that the Capellans relied on FWL production to rebuild their regiments, and they traded TSM for help and new technology in 3046. The text is otherwise scarce on Capellan mentions and it's hard to draw solid inferences.
  • Stingers, Thunderbolts, Warhammers and Chargers all seem likely. Wasps and Stalkers may be likely.
  • JagerMechs and BattleMasters are explicitly nixed. Wolverines and Marauders seem unlikely. Griffins, Shadow Hawks and Archers may be unlikely.
  • Phoenix Hawk and Rifleman lack even the obliquest of references. Could go either way.
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(SMD)MadCow

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #344 on: 10 March 2019, 00:05:03 »
Per TRO 3039
Vindicator, CMI on Capella
Raven, Hellespont on Sian
Cataphract, Earthwerks on Grand Base
Locust, Bergan on Ares
Stinger, Earthwerks on Grand Base

So immediately after the 4 war, there's not much in production.
« Last Edit: 10 March 2019, 00:23:33 by (SMD)MadCow »

Top Sergeant

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #345 on: 10 March 2019, 08:34:34 »
Cataphract has always been a good battlemech.
We hear that there are tumults and riots in Rome, and that voices are raised concerning the army and the quality of our soldiers. Make haste to reassure us that you love and support us as we love and support you, for if we find that we have left our bones to bleach in these sands in vain, then beware the fury of the legions.


Alexander Knight

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #346 on: 10 March 2019, 23:53:37 »
Seeing as this is the home of the Capellans, I feel this would be a good place to ask: what kind of mechs was the Confederation making in the immediate aftermath of the 4th Succession Wars? Just Vindicators and Bugs?

Locust, Stinger (x2), Wasp, Raven, Vindicator, Cataphract, Charger-A5

truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #347 on: 11 March 2019, 01:05:18 »
What about the HotHammer?

TT

Edit: found it...

Menke and St. Ives both under StarCorps Industries...

Edit2: Apparently they also make Xanthos-30 on Corey by Hollis Incorporation.

TT
« Last Edit: 11 March 2019, 01:24:58 by truetanker »
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
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glitterboy2098

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #348 on: 11 March 2019, 14:09:34 »
What about the HotHammer?

TT

Edit: found it...

Menke and St. Ives both under StarCorps Industries...
St. Ives isn't in the Capcon in the 3030's and 3040's, but Menke is. but odds are that given the lack of production occurring on other worlds in capcon, as pointed out by skiltao, there would not be much in the way of new mechs being built there either. spare parts perhaps, but the disruption of the Capcon's losses (and the mismanagement by Romano during its reconstruction) appears to have made larger production difficult. presumably the Capcon spent most of the decades post 4th succession war trying to reorganize its logistical infrastructure so it can build new mechs using just the factories inside the surviving Capcon territory. given how they lost so much of their original industrial power during the war, whether to the fedcom conquest or the St.Ives succession, that was probably a fairly major undertaking.

Quote
Edit2: Apparently they also make Xanthos-30 on Corey by Hollis Incorporation.
the Xanthos was extinct before the 2nd succession war even started, so not going to be a factor here.
we know the Corey plant was building HGN-733 Highlander's prior to the 4th succession war (as said war stopped production) but odds are they were not building many. the only other mech in the Corey plant's list on Sarna that was pre-clan is the Catapult, but we know that line got wrecked in the early years of the 1st succession war.

so it would appear that Corey is not building much of anything in the 30's and 40's.. at best they were putting out spare parts for highlanders.

truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #349 on: 11 March 2019, 21:01:07 »
Yes, Xanthos-20 was made extinct when Hollis on Corey created the first operational ( primitive ) quadrupedal mech. Xanthos-30 was the new upgraded version made standard from 2579 on up to the parts made till the Jihad.

Even if new parts are made, someone is buying them, specially when their a " custom " job. You can't just state a unit is extinct just because it's no longer being built as a complete unit. If a part can be salvaged from a broken version, it can be replaced in said broken unit, if not then a new part has to be built from the older stockpiles.

Simple rules are simple enough to follow. Xanthos unit is made, sure it's centuries old, hell every Mech in the Inner Sphere is... it loses it's front right foot and lower actuator due to damage. Now where would you find 100 ton strength rated superstructure... well it need to fit somehow... or go without and become a 2/3? Or would you rather pay Hollis a bit more to retrieve an older stockpiled one? Or even a newier version as you did a fine job on that last one you did for them. After all, company store and all...

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
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nckestrel

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #350 on: 11 March 2019, 22:52:39 »
TR3075:
"House Liao purchased most of the Xanthos 3O’s. The
’Mechs did well in the field, but delivery delays led the
Confederation to end procurement of the assault machine.
Attrition resulted in the design disappearing from the battlefield
by the Second Succession War."
It specifically says the 30s were gone by the 2nd SW.
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truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #351 on: 11 March 2019, 23:04:17 »
Canon just states that design disappeared from field duties, not extinct, as the last one was not destroyed.

Which means, parts have to be cannibalized to make others work, also STOCKPILES could still be around... the unit in question may not be built as a whole unit anymore, but I'll bet there's parts out there waiting to be put together, until after 3067, when the factory made more versions...

Best solution, hard to come by and expensive to ship, just like LAMs and Goliath parts...

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #352 on: 11 March 2019, 23:43:11 »
That’s a definition of production that is meaningless. That there might be enough spare parts to put one together isn’t “in production”. 
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truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #353 on: 11 March 2019, 23:58:59 »
Which is why I have always thought outside of the proverbial box...

If one was made, and there is a record of it, one can be made again...

And I'm out...

( drops the mic )
TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #354 on: 12 March 2019, 00:36:04 »
Charger-A5

Is a modification of the 1L purchased from the Combine. Since they're not making the mech, does that really count as a CapCon production?

glitterboy2098

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #355 on: 12 March 2019, 14:22:07 »
That’s a definition of production that is meaningless. That there might be enough spare parts to put one together isn’t “in production”.
also while the MUL does not list a late succession wars availability for the Xanthos -3O (at all, the category is missing), it goes from available in the early succession wars (1st and 2nd) to "extinct" in the clan invasion, which would support the interpretation that the design is extinct during the 3rd and 4th succession war/late succession wars. given that production is stated to have stopped before the 2nd war, which was one of the most destructive wars the IS ever saw, suggests that examples of the mech probably did not survive the 2nd war as anything other than the rare museum display.
« Last Edit: 12 March 2019, 14:27:05 by glitterboy2098 »

Kit deSummersville

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #356 on: 12 March 2019, 15:07:59 »
Xanthos -3O

I'm glad somebody can get the right designation. O, like the second to last letter in it's name, not some silly number 0.
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Alexander Knight

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #357 on: 14 March 2019, 15:24:59 »
Menke was built into a factory world AFTER the War of 3039, so no production there after the 4th SW.  Warhammer production in the Confederation is tied to Project Phoenix, and not earlier.

truetanker

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #358 on: 14 March 2019, 15:32:46 »
Then please explain the HotHammer... if it was a post 4th production... as the above clearly states.

TT
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!
« Reply #359 on: 14 March 2019, 15:45:26 »
The HotHammer was probably a mod, tweaking WarHammers already in inventory.
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