The League of Nations - many factions, one cordial discourse

[LastChanceCav]

They way I see it, the more factions there are, the people in the universe to start a fight.  The factions exist to drive conflict in universe, I dislike it when they drive conflict on the boards.

Cheers,
LCC

[ArcaneRaven]

Unfortunately, there are more and more faction threads popping up.  :(

Since we Capellans are one of the most tight-knit group in universe, I'm really proud that there is no "Capellan Thread" anywhere in this board. O0

[Moonsword]

I'm in several of them, and several are really being useful as opposed to factional chest pounding.  (Not just the ones I'm in, either, and there's some of it going on in those - the FWL Phoenix thread looks interesting.)

[Peacemaker]

Unfortunately, there are more and more faction threads popping up.  :(

Since we Capellans are one of the most tight-knit group in universe, I'm really proud that there is no "Capellan Thread" anywhere in this board. O0

As a slight Capellan fan, I tend to agree. Ditto for the lack of a Star Adder thread.

[Rorke]

Unfortunately, there are more and more faction threads popping up.  :(

Since we Capellans are one of the most tight-knit group in universe, I'm really proud that there is no "Capellan Thread" anywhere in this board. O0

Bravo, agree with you completely.

I love my faction, but there's a time and a place.  Let's not let the SS part of the board turn back into the dull back slapping fan ficcy nonsense it was a few months ago.  There are appropriate places for such egotism, here i want to see debate.

[MadCapellan]

Onward to discussion!

We stand on the cusp of a new era for Battletech!  What direction are you all interested in seeing the Successor States take?

For House Davion, I'm interested to find out more about Harrison Davion, a man who by all accounts seems to have been a very capable and popular leader.  I'm also keen to see how Aaron Sandoval fares when the plot advances through the Dark Age - Aaron is a stone cold pimp, a master schemer, and a magnificent bastard.  If anyone is Hanse's spiritual successor, it's the man who talked an entire prefecture off the Republic and is still hungry for more.

I'm also looking forward to the AFFS delivering a solid pounding to the Dracs.  While I think it's a shame the Dracs will lose Marduk considering how few factories they have already, the Victor-Teddy kissy-face detente needs to end.  It's hard to take the Dracs seriously when they won't war with Davions.

For the Dracs, I'd like to see more diversity of character (I'm not even going to go into detail on my thoughts on Drac single-dimension characterization), and to deliver a serious beat down on somebody.  Since 3039, the Combine has been nothing but a victim, a sidekick, or a charity case.  For the only nation in Battletech who's standing foreign policy is openly stated as "we'll conquer you all, just because we want to" That's a seriously sad state of affairs.  I'd prefer if it was the Ghost Bears, just to take them down a peg, but I don't really care who it's against so long as they win big.

For House Liao, I'd like to see a bit of a paradigm shift.  As one of the most powerful factions in Dark Age, Imd like to see House Liao succeed in getting all of it's ancestral worlds back, and then:
A- Continue on conquering and become a truly scary opponent (villain?) that others struggle to stop.
B- stop fighting and become a more peaceful, insular neighbor.

Marik- Steiner is on the ropes!  Now is the time to return the favor!  Also, if the new League obliterates Regulus as an independent entity and conquers them outright, that'd be sweet too.

While I found House Steiner to have some neat elements back in 3025, as time wnt on through the FedCom & Lyran Alliance era I found them more and more reprehensible.  Likewise, I really dislike Clan Wolf in Exile and their cheey epic do-goodery and daring-do.  I have found, however, that the more I see the two presented as one entity, the better I like the whole picture.  A Lyran-Wolf state, perhaps not to the extent of the Ghost Bear Dominion, might prove pretty interesting!

[RGCavScout]

Kudos to MadCap for making this bid for a more civilized and reasonable discussion!  I Salute you!

I would definitely like to learn more about Harrison Davion, especially his relationship with Sterling McKenna and the Raven Alliance.  My only real worry is that Julian Davion will come off as too much of a Victor-clone, trying to put off an inevitable confrontation with the insanity of Caleb and simply prolonging the agony.  Perhaps another Davion civil war like in Alexander's time with the Haseks and Sandovals working overtly and covertly to come out in a better position in the Crucis March.

As to the Capellans, I have to give them much respect for not going gently into that good night with regards to the Republic and handing over worlds to the upstart Stone.  Maybe some fighting with Andurien and probably some gains in the Capellan March.  I really don't like the Haseks and would love to see them taken down a peg or two.

I would not mind seeing the Combine go hardcore and really take either another whack at Robinson, or try to get back Alshain from the Rasalhauge Dominion.  They really need to get back to what they do best, fighting their neighbors rather than themselves.

I think that the Lyrans have enough on their plate just keeping the Wolves and the all-too-invincible Alaric Ward-Stiener (whatever he goes by these days) at bay.  That whole section of space is a glorious mess.

The FWL is also hurting from the Lyran-Wolf predation.  Frankly, I would not mind seeing Regulus take the lead returning the League to glory.  Oriente just hasn't cut the mustard and an ascendant Regulus could possibly spice things up a bit.

[deathfrombeyond]

As a slight Capellan fan, I tend to agree. Ditto for the lack of a Star Adder thread.

Point of Order: there exists a Star Adder thread already.

[Peacemaker]

Troll threads don't count.

[Sartris]

Marik- Steiner is on the ropes!  Now is the time to return the favor!  Also, if the new League obliterates Regulus as an independent entity and conquers them outright, that'd be sweet too.

Your dislike for Regulus is well documented, Mad Cap (or at least it was  [blank]).  There are some of us (ok, maybe it's just me) that want to see the Regulans re-integrated in a peaceful manner by some sort of political compromise.  Conquest is traditionally a poor tool for spreading good will and unity.  Though I'm a staunch supporter of a stronger central government in the FWL, the way forward is not violence against fellow Leaugers.  We have enough to shoot at coming from outside of our own boarders!

[ArcaneRaven]

I'd really like to see the relations from the center of the IS to border worlds shuffled anew. That means, the RotS in its center should become a true power to be reckoned with and starting to turn the table on the Great Houses. As for the Successor States i'd like to see that they either learn to cooperate more to balance the now mighty RAF or to turn on the major periphery states for help - and subsequently talk to them at eye level for the forseeable future. Or perhaps a mixture of both.

For House Davion, I'm interested to find out more about Harrison Davion, a man who by all accounts seems to have been a very capable and popular leader.  I'm also keen to see how Aaron Sandoval fares when the plot advances through the Dark Age - Aaron is a stone cold pimp, a master schemer, and a magnificent bastard.  If anyone is Hanse's spiritual successor, it's the man who talked an entire prefecture off the Republic and is still hungry for more.

Definitely yes! Aaron Sandoval is a very interesting character! As is his cousin (nephew) Erik Sandoval-Groell! I want to read more about them.

For the Dracs, I'd like to see more diversity of character (I'm not even going to go into detail on my thoughts on Drac single-dimension characterization), and to deliver a serious beat down on somebody.  Since 3039, the Combine has been nothing but a victim, a sidekick, or a charity case.  For the only nation in Battletech who's standing foreign policy is openly stated as "we'll conquer you all, just because we want to" That's a seriously sad state of affairs.  I'd prefer if it was the Ghost Bears, just to take them down a peg, but I don't really care who it's against so long as they win big.

I concur with you but change target to the Republic. Being the only House able to fight them to a standstill would be impressive. Or at least the only one to make up ground.

For House Liao, I'd like to see a bit of a paradigm shift.  As one of the most powerful factions in Dark Age, Imd like to see House Liao succeed in getting all of it's ancestral worlds back, and then:
A- Continue on conquering and become a truly scary opponent (villain?) that others struggle to stop.
B- stop fighting and become a more peaceful, insular neighbor.

Both variants are intriguing. B is slightly more appealing to me due to being the very model of villians for the most part of BT - at least in perception.  ;D

Marik- Steiner is on the ropes!  Now is the time to return the favor!  Also, if the new League obliterates Regulus as an independent entity and conquers them outright, that'd be sweet too.

I want to see Regulus being punished as well. But not obliterated. maybe more moderate but supporting of the new FWL. And I want the MSC back!

While I found House Steiner to have some neat elements back in 3025, as time wnt on through the FedCom & Lyran Alliance era I found them more and more reprehensible.  Likewise, I really dislike Clan Wolf in Exile and their cheey epic do-goodery and daring-do.  I have found, however, that the more I see the two presented as one entity, the better I like the whole picture.  A Lyran-Wolf state, perhaps not to the extent of the Ghost Bear Dominion, might prove pretty interesting!

Wow, daring plans!  :o Changing one of the Great Five... OTOH, with the WiE they already have changed a bit long time before, haven't they?

Your dislike for Regulus is well documented, Mad Cap (or at least it was  [blank]).  There are some of us (ok, maybe it's just me) that want to see the Regulans re-integrated in a peaceful manner by some sort of political compromise.  Conquest is traditionally a poor tool for spreading good will and unity.  Though I'm a staunch supporter of a stronger central government in the FWL, the way forward is not violence against fellow Leaugers.  We have enough to shoot at coming from outside of our own boarders!

I always endorsed a stronger central government in the FWL. O0 And I'm not referring to Parliament. ;)

[Joshua D]

Your dislike for Regulus is well documented, Mad Cap (or at least it was  [blank]).  There are some of us (ok, maybe it's just me) that want to see the Regulans re-integrated in a peaceful manner by some sort of political compromise.  Conquest is traditionally a poor tool for spreading good will and unity.  Though I'm a staunch supporter of a stronger central government in the FWL, the way forward is not violence against fellow Leaugers.  We have enough to shoot at coming from outside of our own boarders!

Bah, the League's tried the whole democracy thing too much, its time to put the beat down on somebody  >:/!

[Arkansas Warrior]

I always get the image of Harrison as another Hanse, minus the world-conquering ambition.  I really look forward to seeing him make his own mark.
 
On the Liao side, I'd really like to see what becomes of Danai Liao.  She strikes me as the most interesting Liao  character in, well, quite a while.

[Lord Harlock]

Since we Capellans are one of the most tight-knit group in universe, I'm really proud that there is no "Capellan Thread" anywhere in this board. O0

I was hoping that the Suns wouldn't start one up here. Sigh. Though so far, it has been generally about mechs and military tactics more than anything, so it's a bit better than I expected.

Onward to discussion!

We stand on the cusp of a new era for Battletech!  What direction are you all interested in seeing the Successor States take?

For House Davion, I'm interested to find out more about Harrison Davion, a man who by all accounts seems to have been a very capable and popular leader.  I'm also keen to see how Aaron Sandoval fares when the plot advances through the Dark Age - Aaron is a stone cold pimp, a master schemer, and a magnificent bastard.  If anyone is Hanse's spiritual successor, it's the man who talked an entire prefecture off the Republic and is still hungry for more.

Harrison is one of those engimas of the Dark Ages that really I'd like to know more about. The only real issue is that he shows up and then dies in the same book that introduced him. He definitely wasn't a "Peace" Prince like John or Michael. If Catalyst can give more details about Harrison without adding some sort of odd or horrible quirk, I'd love it.

And Aaron needs to show up again. And whatever happened to Harrison Spy Master?

I'm also looking forward to the AFFS delivering a solid pounding to the Dracs.  While I think it's a shame the Dracs will lose Marduk considering how few factories they have already, the Victor-Teddy kissy-face detente needs to end.  It's hard to take the Dracs seriously when they won't war with Davions.

Of all the things that Caleb will probably do from the throne room of Castle Davion is attack the Dracs. It's in his blood; darn James Sandoval for being part of that madness. Hopefully Eric Sandoval-Groell actually learned something during his time with his "uncle" because he is going to need some of that Aaron Sandoval's charm to get past Caleb's less lucid moments.

For the Dracs, I'd like to see more diversity of character (I'm not even going to go into detail on my thoughts on Drac single-dimension characterization), and to deliver a serious beat down on somebody.  Since 3039, the Combine has been nothing but a victim, a sidekick, or a charity case.  For the only nation in Battletech who's standing foreign policy is openly stated as "we'll conquer you all, just because we want to" That's a seriously sad state of affairs.  I'd prefer if it was the Ghost Bears, just to take them down a peg, but I don't really care who it's against so long as they win big.

Preferably their Clan neighbors will get the Dragon's Teeth.

For House Liao, I'd like to see a bit of a paradigm shift.  As one of the most powerful factions in Dark Age, Imd like to see House Liao succeed in getting all of it's ancestral worlds back, and then:
A- Continue on conquering and become a truly scary opponent (villain?) that others struggle to stop.
B- stop fighting and become a more peaceful, insular neighbor.

B isn't going to happen. A is more likely because the philosophy of House Liao isn't really we will stop when we get all those planets back. To the logic conclusion, they are the most enlightened and understanding of the Celestial Machine, so all should join in the order. The problem is that people on so-called Capellan worlds might not join into the Capellan order. It might cripple the Mask for a period dealing with people who prefer their former nations such as the FWL and Suns.

Then again, the Capellans did take worlds from the Taurians and Fronc Reaches aka Detriot, so they do have worlds that are not exactly Capellan from the start.

Marik- Steiner is on the ropes!  Now is the time to return the favor!  Also, if the new League obliterates Regulus as an independent entity and conquers them outright, that'd be sweet too.

But I kind of have a desire to see a long drawn out simmering boarder war between Captain-General Jessica Marik and the never-nude Lester Cameron-Jones.

While I found House Steiner to have some neat elements back in 3025, as time wnt on through the FedCom & Lyran Alliance era I found them more and more reprehensible.  Likewise, I really dislike Clan Wolf in Exile and their cheey epic do-goodery and daring-do.  I have found, however, that the more I see the two presented as one entity, the better I like the whole picture.  A Lyran-Wolf state, perhaps not to the extent of the Ghost Bear Dominion, might prove pretty interesting!

The Lyran are becoming the new FWL. And honestly you have to feel sorry for Trillian Steiner-Davion. She said it wasn't a good idea to get the Wolves, but no one that mattered really listened to her. Then again, I have a strange desire for Julian Davion to marry his distant cousin to produce the future possible First Prince Jackson Hanse Davion. That is not going to happen.

It will be interesting what states form other than the Lyran Wolves under Victor II aka the Archon-Khan Alaric (Steiner-Davion) Ward. We could see a Lyran state under Duke Vedet Brewster (who will be renamed Destro) ruled from Hesperus II. A Lyran state under Trillian which she could just hand over to Roderick Frost to become the wife of Julian. And a much larger Falcon Death Zone- that's not really a joke. It's more a fact that the Falcons under Malvina are becoming true monsters, so the sheer tyrannical and horrid things are mounting under Hazen's rule

[Thoth]

I like this thread. I've always been a multi-faction kind of guy. I love the Wolves and the Suns. Like the Ravens and the Combine. Miss the Federated Commonwealth. Like some of the Liao stuff.  I think the whole Universe is great.

[Klep]

So has everyone seen Randall's latest blog post of art notes for the House Liao Handbook?  I can't wait for that thing to be finished; I've really been loving the Handbook series.

[ArcaneRaven]

Yes. There's even a thread for it. :)

[Moonsword]

Saw that.  And the art is awesome.  The Liao book is going to be the best looking one yet.

[SethsMatches]

heed the words of intelligent gentlemen such as Citizen MadCap and deathfrombeyond.

With names like those how could their character be doubted!  [notworthy] (Couldn't help it, the "contrast" had me in stitches)

*chuckle* Ultimately "The People" shall decide and favour the thread style they prefer... Although "he who resists fashion is himself its slave" comes to mind  #P

Pray excuse the ramble. Am defrosting a deep freeze.

Also, who're the "Mica Majority"?

[MadCapellan]

My only real worry is that Julian Davion will come off as too much of a Victor-clone, trying to put off an inevitable confrontation with the insanity of Caleb and simply prolonging the agony. 

Julian does seem to give off that "reluctant hero" vibe, which is a trope I'd really rather stop seeing.  He might just surprise us, however.

The FWL is also hurting from the Lyran-Wolf predation.  Frankly, I would not mind seeing Regulus take the lead returning the League to glory.  Oriente just hasn't cut the mustard and an ascendant Regulus could possibly spice things up a bit.

I have to wonder what a Regulus-led League would look like, as their primary complaint with the League has always seemed to be them not being on top.  I'm sure they'd like to make you think that it'd be no different than the League has always been, but the Cameron-Jones Clan has always seemed to have a heavy-handed, manipulative streak which leads me to believe that a Regulan run League would become something of a nightmare police state, at least by League standards.  I don't know that I'm interested in seeing that, simply because I feel like a Regulan-led League would be a scheming dictatorship far too similar to others we've already seen repeatedly across the Sphere and in the periphery.  Honestly, my first thought is how much it'd remind me of the Rim Worlds Republic.

[MadCapellan]

I'd really like to see the relations from the center of the IS to border worlds shuffled anew. That means, the RotS in its center should become a true power to be reckoned with and starting to turn the table on the Great Houses.

I thought we already had that with the period between 3080 & 3130?

I concur with you but change target to the Republic. Being the only House able to fight them to a standstill would be impressive. Or at least the only one to make up ground.

There's too much candy & rainbows to the Republic for my taste, and it's long set off my BS-detector.  I'd be happy to see everyone take turns stomping on it's throat.

Both variants are intriguing. B is slightly more appealing to me due to being the very model of villians for the most part of BT - at least in perception.  ;D

Really?  My impression is that Battletech's "villains" on the whole have always been incompetent buffoons that'd lose to a well trained organ-grinder monkey should it be given the proper motivation.  I'm talking about an actually clever and scary enemy with a powerful army and competent leadership that might actually be able to put the rest of the Sphere on the ropes. 

[RGCavScout]

I have to wonder what a Regulus-led League would look like, as their primary complaint with the League has always seemed to be them not being on top.  I'm sure they'd like to make you think that it'd be no different than the League has always been, but the Cameron-Jones Clan has always seemed to have a heavy-handed, manipulative streak which leads me to believe that a Regulan run League would become something of a nightmare police state, at least by League standards.  I don't know that I'm interested in seeing that, simply because I feel like a Regulan-led League would be a scheming dictatorship far too similar to others we've already seen repeatedly across the Sphere and in the periphery.  Honestly, my first thought is how much it'd remind me of the Rim Worlds Republic.

Interesting, I had not considered that angle.  My fear is that as Andurien will not look to re-unify the League (even to lead it) and Oriente appears to have had their chance and been hurt bad by the Lyrans and Wolves; losing both worlds and no small amount of respect, who else is in position to get the FWL back together? (if it can be put back together)  We cannot possibly be running out of Mariks, they tend to breed like rabbits.  Who else is out there?

[MadCapellan]

B isn't going to happen. A is more likely because the philosophy of House Liao isn't really we will stop when we get all those planets back.

I'm not so sure.  The Capellan Confederation has never gotten all of their planets back from the FWL or Federated Suns, so it's hard to say since there's no precedent.  The Capellan Confederation does have an established track record for publicly calling for the return of their former worlds, focusing attacks on them when strategically other targets would be easier or yield better, and publicly decries imperialist aggression. 

Is it truth, or smoke and mirrors?  At some point, I feel like even if it was initially just political posturing, over hundreds of years, a culture would absorb it as part of their core values and accept it as truth. 

The only real hostile acquisition of territory the Capellan Confederation has ever taken part in was the absorbtion of a number of former Taurian worlds, a periphery power that refused to sign the Ares Convention and which even the Star League saw as almost sub-human, and the annexation of worlds from the collapsing Terran Hegemony, something imperitave militarily in the opening of the Succession Wars and which could almost be regarded as humanitarian. 

The entirety of the Capellan national character is built upon the pagentry of the Great Patriotic War - Stand united against our oppressors.  Even if the Chancellor wanted to convert the Capellan Confederation into an imperialist aggressor, ironically, the shift might be politically quite difficult.  Capellans raised for generations to view the Davions as evil because they believe in armed conquest would struggle with the idea of spreading the Greater Humanity by the sword and be half-hearted in following orders.  Commanders might even do the unthinkable and refuse orders, leading to a typical behind-the-scenes Capellan power struggle resulting in the arrest and execution of numerous officers, poor battlefield performance, and the eventual assassination of the Chancellor.

Is it possible for the Confederation to become an imperialist power?  Sure, but I don't consider it a given, and it might take generations for cultural opinions to shift properly enough to make it effective.   

[Kojak]

Capellans raised for generations to view the Davions as evil because they believe in armed conquest would struggle with the idea of spreading the Greater Humanity by the sword and be half-hearted in following orders.  Commanders might even do the unthinkable and refuse orders, leading to a typical behind-the-scenes Capellan power struggle resulting in the arrest and execution of numerous officers, poor battlefield performance, and the eventual assassination of the Chancellor.

It is ironic to me that the Confederation's greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Their willingness to submit to a higher authority often leaves them unable to deal with crises of leadership, because the only mechanisms they have for removing their head of state are the ones who are also responsible for executing the Chancellor's will. In fairness, this is a problem that exists to a lesser extent in the other Houses as well, but it seems to be House Liao's most acute problem.

[Rorke]

Reclaiming all of the Confederations original worlds?  Never happening, though seeing you try could make for some interesting times. 

"Obey our new masters without question, like hell lads.  Fetch me the Federated Long Rifle Martha, there's some Cappies to educate"

Been a long time since some of those worlds were ruled by Liao, and in many cases like Chesterton they've been FedSuns worlds happily for generations.  But seeing you try would be entertaining.  I'd imagine worlds closer to the current border wouldn't be too irked, but deeper into the Capellan March it'd get messy.

[Moonsword]

It is ironic to me that the Confederation's greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Their willingness to submit to a higher authority often leaves them unable to deal with crises of leadership, because the only mechanisms they have for removing their head of state are the ones who are also responsible for executing the Chancellor's will. In fairness, this is a problem that exists to a lesser extent in the other Houses as well, but it seems to be House Liao's most acute problem.

No, I think their most acute problem is that, of the Houses, the Confederation is the little guy in several ways.  Strategically, their tight borders have some defensive benefits, but they also got their military-industrial complex taken out further than the other Houses in 3025 in some areas and that's still hitting them in some ways.  In a few ways, they're still working their way back to where they were circa 3020.

Reclaiming all of the Confederations original worlds?  Never happening, though seeing you try could make for some interesting times. 

"Obey our new masters without question, like hell lads.  Fetch me the Federated Long Rifle Martha, there's some Cappies to educate"

Been a long time since some of those worlds were ruled by Liao, and in many cases like Chesterton they've been FedSuns worlds happily for generations.  But seeing you try would be entertaining.  I'd imagine worlds closer to the current border wouldn't be too irked, but deeper into the Capellan March it'd get messy.

I'm inclined to agree with the general assessment on how the populations would react, but please leave the factional chest thumping out of this thread.

[MadCapellan]

It is ironic to me that the Confederation's greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Their willingness to submit to a higher authority often leaves them unable to deal with crises of leadership, because the only mechanisms they have for removing their head of state are the ones who are also responsible for executing the Chancellor's will. In fairness, this is a problem that exists to a lesser extent in the other Houses as well, but it seems to be House Liao's most acute problem.

On the flipside, it does generally save us from otherwise messy civil wars.  Despotic Chancellors are almost always assassinated without any need for a war that would otherwise weaken the state's defenses. 

Been a long time since some of those worlds were ruled by Liao, and in many cases like Chesterton they've been FedSuns worlds happily for generations.  But seeing you try would be entertaining.  I'd imagine worlds closer to the current border wouldn't be too irked, but deeper into the Capellan March it'd get messy.

Certainly, but that really won't change the nature of our cause.  We really could care less about the ignorant opinions of those worlds current inhabitants.  Those worlds collectively belong to the Capellan Confederation.  They can embrace Capellan citizenship or see themselves off.   ;)

I'm inclined to agree with the general assessment on how the populations would react, but please leave the factional chest thumping out of this thread.

Rorke is fine, my friend!  He's allowed some faction identification, provided we don't devolve to flaming each other!  There was a definite point to his post, and I respect that.

[Lore]

Been a long time since some of those worlds were ruled by Liao, and in many cases like Chesterton they've been FedSuns worlds happily for generations.  But seeing you try would be entertaining.  I'd imagine worlds closer to the current border wouldn't be too irked, but deeper into the Capellan March it'd get messy.

I've often gone against the usual Capellan stance on this, but I really wouldn't want them back.

With the number of times the populations of each of these worlds have been indoctrinated and re-indoctrinated to the Capellan Way... I just think the energies of the Confederation's war machine could be better employed elsewhere.

If they chose to return of their own free will, or sought to throw off the yoke of their Davion "oppressors," then sure, send in the CCAF or ZdG to help support them. Otherwise, leave them be.

[RGCavScout]

I think that the Capellans would stand a very good chance at getting many of the "lost" worlds of the Capellan March if the Federated Suns falls upapart in the kind of colon-blow purgative civil war that I wouldn't mind seeing.

Liao would be smart enough to show portray the Davions and Haseks as unable to rule and unwilng to care about those worlds and move in with surprising ease in many cases. 

[Rorke]

Factional chest thumping?  Moi?

Goodness dear boy you obviously do not know me so well.  I'm renowned for my pragmatism i'll have you know.  I believe very much in my faction, i just happen to take a moderate view of how things work.   

I can and have been known to be a touch more strident when necessary, or my temper has been sufficiently inflamed.  But i'd soonest not, and besides i've not had the Kuritan Quote Monkey rile me yet.  Long may such less civil foes stay away from our debates.

I just happen to believe that a lot of those worlds long in our possession, would have significant trouble accepting any return of Liao government.