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Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Magi  (Read 8530 times)

Weirdo

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #60 on: 13 January 2020, 11:01:53 »
Oh, I never said the Magi was very good at what it does. Having a job and being good at said job are two very different things.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #61 on: 13 January 2020, 22:22:29 »
Oh, I never said the Magi was very good at what it does. Having a job and being good at said job are two very different things.

...I feel attacked. ;)
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Weirdo

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #62 on: 13 January 2020, 22:39:53 »
...I feel attacked. ;)

It's okay, I'm not very good at it.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer

gyedid

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #63 on: 14 January 2020, 00:07:27 »
We're told very little of the intent behind the Magi. How do you know it wasn't built for COIN work from the very beginning? Remember, your talking about the Star League, which faced determined insurgencies throughout it's entire existence, and preferred to throw planetary GDPs at problems.

You forget: In Battletech, inefficiency is a feature, not a bug. Triply so if the SLDF got involved. You're talking about a military that bought forty failed battlecruisers out of fear that they might be seen as wasting money.

I think that in the case of the Cameron, it was more a matter that the finished product fell far short of the original design specs and killing the project outright would be tantamount to the SLDF Admiralty admitting they themselves had failed to supervise it properly, so they went ahead with the purchase in order to mask their own shortcomings.  The Magi is a different matter, since the original fluff puts it down pretty much to straight-up cronyism.

cheers,

Gabe
 
« Last Edit: 14 January 2020, 08:10:21 by gyedid »
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Jellico

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #64 on: 14 January 2020, 07:45:19 »
Going back and reading the OP I find myself thinking of something I once wrote about the Skulker.

"what else can you do with it? "

If I may elaborate. Once you put an appropriate engine on a Skulker under 3025 tech you could really only mount a single Medium Laser and a heap of armor. I made this in comparison to Clan light tanks which had a lot more options available beyond a ML and so naturally would have a lot less armor compared to a comparatively over armored Skulker.

Bringing this back to the Magi. Once you have accepted the design brief is to be based around a 350Std engine what room do you have for anything else? Without being able to check I am wondering why this isn't an 80 ton min max concept tank like a Charger? Is the 80 ton tank better or worse?

Weirdo

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #65 on: 14 January 2020, 08:56:45 »
Such a discussion belongs in Fan Designs, please.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #66 on: 14 January 2020, 09:17:18 »
Bringing this back to the Magi. Once you have accepted the design brief is to be based around a 350Std engine what room do you have for anything else? Without being able to check I am wondering why this isn't an 80 ton min max concept tank like a Charger? Is the 80 ton tank better or worse?

Trying not to cross the line into fan designs but I think the (out of universe) intent was for the magi to be a charger on tracks. Because of the extra engine shielding mass vehicles require, it hits the "biggest and fastest you can get" ten tons earlier than the charger.

I've always thought the writer's intent was "hey, I made this big dumb ridiculous thing, you try to get the best you can out of it, because it's hilarious."

Hmmm.... combined arms force of Chargers and Mackies.   
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #67 on: 14 January 2020, 13:34:01 »
If it had TAG it could possibly be justified as an artillery spotter.

But it doesn't...

The fact of it is the original TROs 3025, 3026, 2750 and 3050 are filled with crap like this.
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gyedid

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #68 on: 14 January 2020, 14:15:48 »

Hmmm.... combined arms force of Chargers and Mackies.

No, Mackies would actually add significant firepower to such a force. 

Cheers, Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

SteelRaven

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #69 on: 14 January 2020, 15:25:11 »
It would be Chargers and Banshees.

The early SLDF put allot of importance into mobility (thus, LAMs) so it shouldn't be a surprise.

I personally see it as a sort of Battle Taxi but more of one that is meant to stay out of the fight. Thus all engine to get the hell out. I'm sure fans have created better designs for this but the BTU can be weird regarding standard ground vehicles.
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Jellico

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #70 on: 14 January 2020, 17:00:31 »
Such a discussion belongs in Fan Designs, please.

I am not asking what else a fan might do with the Magi. Rather if your base design specification is make the fastest heavy tank you can using effectively 3025 tech your options for hardware beyond a few lasers and a slab of armor get really limited.

As Liam has kindly researched for us the Magi is a "biggest fastest" design/concept like the Charger and suffers accordingly. Once that is recognized you can be a lot more forgiving about armament options and downright sorry for the author who has to explain it.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #71 on: 14 January 2020, 18:14:51 »
No, Mackies would actually add significant firepower to such a force. 

Cheers, Gabe
Pretty sure he meant Chargers and Magi.
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gyedid

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #72 on: 14 January 2020, 23:49:56 »
Pretty sure he meant Chargers and Magi.

Oh I know what he meant, I just wanted to get him to re-read it  ;D

Cheers, Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #73 on: 14 January 2020, 23:50:57 »
Pretty sure he meant Chargers and Magi.

Yeah, no idea how it ended up Mackie.  ;D
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Hptm. Streiger

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #74 on: 17 January 2020, 07:27:37 »
...well there is something the Magi can do the Myrmidon can not: its obviously the better tractor. So you have an adequate armored vehicle that can tow cargo with moderate speeds....

still a lemon

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #75 on: 17 January 2020, 09:25:58 »
...well there is something the Magi can do the Myrmidon can not: its obviously the better tractor. So you have an adequate armored vehicle that can tow cargo with moderate speeds....

still a lemon
So it should've been commissioned as a recovery vehicle instead, in that case.
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gyedid

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #76 on: 17 January 2020, 23:30:41 »
Wondering about the name...is each one of the medium lasers supposed to represent one of the Three Kings of Orient?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #77 on: 18 January 2020, 10:18:37 »
Wondering about the name...is each one of the medium lasers supposed to represent one of the Three Kings of Orient?

I wouldn't want to be following a Star in it! (Although now I might fire up MM to see how long it would last ...)
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #78 on: 19 January 2020, 02:12:04 »
It was probably a reference to the Zoroastrian priests.  FASA seems to have mostly avoided overt references to Christianity in unit naming themes.
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gyedid

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #79 on: 19 January 2020, 18:53:11 »
It was probably a reference to the Zoroastrian priests.  FASA seems to have mostly avoided overt references to Christianity in unit naming themes.

Well, there is this picture of a mosaic which shows the Gospel Magi attired in distinctively Persian garb:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi#/media/File:Magi_(1).jpg

Note especially the peaked caps and patterns on the leggings.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #80 on: 19 January 2020, 20:30:50 »
Yes, and that contradicts what I said how?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #81 on: 24 January 2020, 17:31:00 »
I wonder what the original request was, I have a feeling that this is a major case of scope creep.  It might have started as something totally different but due to "requirements"  the design changed and changed.  In the end what was delivered was the Magi that we know and "love".

Looking to real life, watch "The Pentagon Wars".  Or read up on most modern military programs.

gyedid

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #82 on: 27 January 2020, 21:13:28 »
Yes, and that contradicts what I said how?

I re-iterate that there are THREE medium lasers on the Magi and that's all I'm going to say about that.

I wonder what the original request was, I have a feeling that this is a major case of scope creep.  It might have started as something totally different but due to "requirements"  the design changed and changed.  In the end what was delivered was the Magi that we know and "love".

Looking to real life, watch "The Pentagon Wars".  Or read up on most modern military programs.

So what they wanted was an urban pacification vehicle using ferro-fibrous armour that also had to be able to tow field guns at a good clip...?

cheers,

Gabe

So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #83 on: 27 January 2020, 21:45:01 »
Again, so what?  It's still a name that is far more associated with another religion entirely.  Two entirely coincidental facts do not a compelling argument make.  If it had a few more references, say in its weapon models or chassis type that would be a stronger case.
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Luciora

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #84 on: 28 January 2020, 00:58:53 »
We know the manufacturer of the lasers, I'm disinclined to think there was a reference at all.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #85 on: 28 January 2020, 17:42:34 »
Dunno, I think the Blakist's C3i makes a decently armored spotter even if its not the 'best.'  I would have liked to see a 2nd WoB variant that swapped out the weapons to for a Plasma Rifle.  I mean you can nearly do it already with the stock SLDF model, but the UCSV gives you the ability to put it in with 2t ammo.

It would be the super-Main Gauche ISV.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #86 on: 29 January 2020, 08:50:47 »
Dunno, I think the Blakist's C3i makes a decently armored spotter even if its not the 'best.'  I would have liked to see a 2nd WoB variant that swapped out the weapons to for a Plasma Rifle.  I mean you can nearly do it already with the stock SLDF model, but the UCSV gives you the ability to put it in with 2t ammo.

It would be the super-Main Gauche ISV.

I kinda dig that, actually. Halfway decent little urban-renovation platform, mobile and tough... I'd use one.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #87 on: 29 January 2020, 12:37:22 »
I am a fan of anything fast-ish that transports BA and has a plasma rifle . . . unfortunately, its a really small list.

Heh, next open game I am going to have to send a mechanized Ogre platoon out!  4 Main Gauche ISVs with 4 Ogre squads . . . and maybe a Havoc, ah the giggles.
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