Is Duane Loose the worst Battletech artist? Let´s discuss Battlemech design

[Domi1981]

First of all I don´t want to create a bash thread. But I often found threads like this http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608141-So-what-is-the-Ugliest-Battlemech-anyway/page7
or this
http://www.somethingawful.com/dungeons-and-dragons/battletech-technical-3025/1/
and again its full of Loose´s designs.
Duane Loose helped to create a universe that holds me as a joyful captive since decades and I respect the man. And I know many of you do as well so don´t get overly emotional about the title of this thread. I just like to tease. So have fun discussing. :)

Since I had some free time I spent the last months leafing through my TROs and since I started playing Battletech again I made an awkward experience.
At first I was like "oh I wont like these new designs of mechs". I was kinda lost in this nostalgia bubble.  But after a while I saw more and more of those very nice designs the new mech artists put out in the recent TROs. Apart from looking nice they actually made sense in terms of funcionality of their gear. Not all but many more than the old. IMHO. And then I saw the batch of new figures and gues what, I ordered a whole bunch of mechs. Some old designs and some new.
So I did spent some time comparing the old designs by Duane Loose and the new designs and I have to say what did Loose actually think when making mech feet? Look at this old Ostmechs and the Javeline. They look (again imho) utterly stupid. And what is it about this 80 ton Charger holding this tiny lady colt, or what is it. Yes of course, if you don´t like it don´t buy it. But this is not the focus of this thread. Its about design itself. What makes design good for you and what makes it bad? I´m eager to hear your piece of mind :) Is it just the state of the art of the eighties or is it just bad taste?

Edit: sorry I have seen that a thread like this already exists. But maybe it can offer new ideas according to the post above

[Tai Dai Cultist]

For reals?

Loose isn't the worst.. he's the best.

Battletech began to go downhill when they quit using his art and started introducing things like this crime against fandom:

[Domi1981]

For reals?

I assume you get the hypothetical nature of this threads headline question...

aside from this I agree with you. Loose´s art is deeply encoded in my BT brain

Lookong at your picture I wonder what Catalyst games does nowadays to avoid such ....nonsense (sorry thats the best term I could find) :o

[Wotan]

Think about the time by when the first TROs were made. There is a big influence of the style of the very first unseen. They hold guns in the hands and have large antennas. So Looses designs fit well in that world.
Later there were TROs with breaks in their style within one book. Some really cool looking designs and some odd. But inplay you have a differences of some hundered years in development and offplay some decades now. It would be worse if the art would not develop. That said i love the charme of the old artwork - and i like the new more technical artwork.
And both have their highs and depths.

[Wikkid]

Heresy!  :D :P >:D

It was Duane's in TRO3025 (the proper one with the proper Warhammer et al) that drew me into Battletech.

Much of what followed by other artists was dross. I liked the colour art in TRO3055 (again, the proper one) and Plog is a genius.

The artistic styles of the rest do not suit my taste at all.

This is not always reflected in the mini sculpts. Some superb art has resulted in some utter dogs and vice versa.

[Maingunnery]

Loose: here is the rough concept
FASA: Lets use that
Loose: But it isn't finished yet
FASA: Here is 10 dollars to look the other way
Loose: Ok

[Domi1981]

Heresy!  :D :P >:D

It was Duane's in TRO3025 (the proper one with the proper Warhammer et al) that drew me into Battletech.

Much of what followed by other artists was dross. I liked the colour art in TRO3055 (again, the proper one) and Plog is a genius.

The artistic styles of the rest do not suit my taste at all.

This is not always reflected in the mini sculpts. Some superb art has resulted in some utter dogs and vice versa.

Yeah the great Warhammer. Loved this one to even though it was stolen. Sad that. I still love my unseens and I hope they come back :(
What was it actually about the Mechs that were stolen from Macros et al? Did Loose made his signature under those? I cannot remember...

[ColonelCody]

For reals?

Loose isn't the worst.. he's the best.

Battletech began to go downhill when they quit using his art and started introducing things like this crime against fandom:

Crime against fandom,...hehehehe I like that...but I agree...when you allow that sort of design to see the light of day one must step back and reconsider one's sources of art. Plog, Loose.. two of my favorites.. and to be frank ,the only two I can actually name. It has to say something for their work right?

[Manchu]

Mechs in more ... mainstream media (including MWO for example) tend to look a LOT different from 80s mechs. Like stepping into a dark room, anyone starting CBT needs to give their eyes time to adjust.

[Siberian-troll]

Battletech began to go downhill when they quit using his art and started introducing things like this crime against fandom:

Hey, Yeoman weird look backed by fluff from Wraith  - constructors from Curtiss Hydroponics, a manufacturers of water purification systems, promised to do a walking water cooler.

By the way, this thread is really should belong to Miniatures forum?

[Deathrider6]

  I have a different opinion/Point of view on this subject. Regardless of who drew the mech (or vee for that matter) each era in the Battletech time line (real time not game timeline) has had a different Style. Loose was very unfinished and Plog is somewhere in between then you see art by the likes of Steve Huda and David White with the occasional Kevin Long and you can distinctly see the evolution of Battletech as a property art wise. Yeah some designs look horrible and may not make sense but at least you can tell what an Atlas is regardless of who drew the bloody thing.

[SteelRaven]

It's very subjective considering Duane Loose created the look of some of my favorite mechs like the Centurion, Awesome, Zeus and so on but also created some duds that really rubbed me the wrong way.

But this could be said about any artist I was a fan of Matt Plog for his work in Fasa SB but stuff like the TRO 3067 nearly made me call it quits. Allot of Plogs TRO work CGL has been nope notch.

I've been a harsh critic of Chris Lewis' work from Project Phoenix but he did a good job with the Clan and SLDF Mechs in the revised TRO 3050
 

[TigerShark]

David White and Stephen Huda should do EVERY drawing from now until... No end. Just them.

[Domi1981]

I started filling my shop basket at some online store with mechs 4 months ago. Since I had a tight budget it put some minis in and out again. Now I´m glad I waited since found myself a new version of the Wolverine and the Thunderbolt. ANd I love them.

These look awesome ! Can someone tell me who designed them?

[Lorcan Nagle]

They weretotally Duane Loose.

[RMDC]

Didn't he also do a bunch of super-gory interior art for MW3E and its supplements?

[Maingunnery]

I started filling my shop basket at some online store with mechs 4 months ago. Since I had a tight budget it put some minis in and out again. Now I´m glad I waited since found myself a new version of the Wolverine and the Thunderbolt. ANd I love them.

These look awesome ! Can someone tell me who designed them?

Chris Lewis for the Thunderbolt
As for the Wolverine II, I can't seem to read the name on its TRO picture.

[False Son]

Even if I don't like their artwork as much as someone else's, I feel uncomfortable saying someone is best of worst.  Favorite or least favorite, sure, because that acknowledges that it is based on opinion.  Best and worst have factual implications.  And what we see are the illustrations selected by the art director.

I also don't know how the art selection process works over at FASA/CGL.  For all I know the Yeoman was described before Mr. Loose ever put a pencil to page, or the art director had influence on the final product.

That being said, more of a fan than not.

[Domi1981]

Chris Lewis for the Thunderbolt
As for the Wolverine II, I can't seem to read the name on its TRO picture.

Can you tell me which TRO it is?

[GunjiNoKanrei]

Can you tell me which TRO it is?

The Wolverine II was in Historical: Operation Klondike. The Master Unit List is your friend for questions like this.

[solmanian]

For reals?

Loose isn't the worst.. he's the best.

Battletech began to go downhill when they quit using his art and started introducing things like this crime against fandom:

I don't know, when I look at that design I imagine a pirate facing a militia mech and muttering "I have made a terrible mistake". LRMs on legs; looks legit.

[solmanian]

Loose: here is the rough concept
FASA: Lets use that
Loose: But it isn't finished yet
FASA: Here is 10 dollars to look the other way
Loose: Ok

Yeah, they look like something you'll make in engineering drawing 101. Really screams "unfinished".

[False Son]

Yeah, i don't get what the big deal is about the Yeoman.  It is missiles on legs.  It doesn't need arms.  If missiles on legs is wrong I don't want to be right!

[klarg1]

First of all I don´t want to create a bash thread. But I often found threads like this http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608141-So-what-is-the-Ugliest-Battlemech-anyway/page7
or this
http://www.somethingawful.com/dungeons-and-dragons/battletech-technical-3025/1/
and again its full of Loose´s designs.
Duane Loose helped to create a universe that holds me as a joyful captive since decades and I respect the man. And I know many of you do as well so don´t get overly emotional about the title of this thread. I just like to tease. So have fun discussing. :)

Regardless of intent, the title, and this phrasing will generate a bashing or arguing thread. "Favorite Battlemech design" is a fundamentally subjective subject, even if you want to focus on mechanical design. (My personal favorite term is "mechanical plausibility".)

Personally, I love many of the illustrations from TRO 3025 and 3026. On the other hand, I also love many of the newer designs from the last 5 years. Heck, I have three different David White illustrations hanging on my wall right now. Why do I have to choose?

The Yeoman is (IMO) plug ugly, and one of my least favorite battlemechs, but it is not the worst offender on the "mechanical plausibility" scale.

[ColonelCody]

Yeah, i don't get what the big deal is about the Yeoman.  It is missiles on legs.  It doesn't need arms.  If missiles on legs is wrong I don't want to be right!

It's not wrong. It's ugly. it's not just ugly..it's UGLY upon UGLIER upon UGLIEST...I love missiles on legs, but to quote a certain minbari...."If it were upto you humans we would all zipping about the galaxy in big ugly, grey and black boxes with engines attached...no sense of aesthetics.." The p-51 was  a racy, slim, sleek, spiffy looking killing machine that was pretty to look at. Even the Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt II, they were both ugly but had  a certain style because of the AESTHETIC..the yeoman is just ugly.

[solmanian]

I really don't see the problem. Everything about it screams "I'm a missile boat. Nothing more, nothing less". I think it's actually iconic and unique detour from the "standard" humanoid form. "Form Follows function"; this are war machines, the "giant metal man" look is hardly the most relevant feature. I think any attempt to renovate and invigorate BT visual style should be encouraged. As long as they don't make them look like sissy boys...

[False Son]

It's not wrong. It's ugly. it's not just ugly..it's UGLY upon UGLIER upon UGLIEST...I love missiles on legs, but to quote a certain minbari...."If it were upto you humans we would all zipping about the galaxy in big ugly, grey and black boxes with engines attached...no sense of aesthetics.." The p-51 was  a racy, slim, sleek, spiffy looking killing machine that was pretty to look at. Even the Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt II, they were both ugly but had  a certain style because of the AESTHETIC..the yeoman is just ugly.

It's not that I have anything against esthetics.  I merely think the Yeoman reflects it's military purpose- no frills missile battery on legs.  The blocky simplicity of it's form speaks to the simplicity of function. 

[Cache]

For all I know the Yeoman was described before Mr. Loose ever put a pencil to page, or the art director had influence on the final product.

The Yoeman is Franz Vohwinkel's work.

[ColonelCody]

The Yoeman is Franz Vohwinkel's work.

Looking at the samples of his work there, only one or two 'mechs & two or three vehicles I like. Though his drawing of Morgan Kell was good. It may just be he got a bad set of ugly stuff to draw.

[Kitsune413]

Justin Nelson is a beast. I think his art is the future of battletech.