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Author Topic: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix  (Read 5027 times)

tbrminsanity

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What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« on: 13 May 2014, 10:41:19 »
I was reading and responding to the thread on how I would have redesigned Mechwarrior Clix and I had a brainstorm.  I always wanted to get into battletech, but I lack the time, skill, and patience needed to collect, assemble, and paint  miniatures.  This is why I got into MW:DA instead. My recommendation for Battletech would be that they should steal the idea of pre designed miniatures for new players of Battletech (and not just in the Beginners set).  Come out with boosters that have infantry, vehicles, and a mech, and have a base paint job for each faction in Battletech.What would you say Battletech should steal from Mechwarrior Clix?

Atlas3060

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #1 on: 13 May 2014, 11:01:43 »
If IWM or (insert mini company here) were to pick up anything from Dark Age, I would hope it would be the action sets.
Have one collection of easily assembled or 1 pieced units, prepainted, visible in package.
Call it a starter set, or beginning army, whatever.
Provide a small booklet, three or four pages, describing in brief summary the faction.
Their ruler, their enemy factions, and preferred tactics for these units in package.
Give a link to Camospecs and any paint supply companies for cross promotion.

The intermediate/advanced level would be simple individual blisters of units in pieces like what we have now.
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VincentDegrassa

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #2 on: 13 May 2014, 11:12:32 »
The scale....As great as prepainted were, people might want to paint the minis themsleves
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #3 on: 13 May 2014, 12:55:26 »
If IWM or (insert mini company here) were to pick up anything from Dark Age, I would hope it would be the action sets.
Have one collection of easily assembled or 1 pieced units, prepainted, visible in package.
Call it a starter set, or beginning army, whatever.
Provide a small booklet, three or four pages, describing in brief summary the faction.
Their ruler, their enemy factions, and preferred tactics for these units in package.
Give a link to Camospecs and any paint supply companies for cross promotion.

The intermediate/advanced level would be simple individual blisters of units in pieces like what we have now.

Isn't this what the lance packs were all about?

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #4 on: 13 May 2014, 13:33:30 »
Isn't this what the lance packs were all about?
Yup and its a good idea, but lately the most recent one (in stores) I can remember was the Liao pack for some guys in the '87 Dossier.
I know we've got RAT packs and such online, but they aren't in stores.
So unless I have gone to IWM's site constantly I wouldn't know.

Still even then they were just collections of the minis.
That's it, there's no support as to where should a player go from there.
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #5 on: 13 May 2014, 16:43:55 »
If IWM or (insert mini company here) were to pick up anything from Dark Age, I would hope it would be the action sets.
Have one collection of easily assembled or 1 pieced units, prepainted, visible in package.
Call it a starter set, or beginning army, whatever.
Provide a small booklet, three or four pages, describing in brief summary the faction.
Their ruler, their enemy factions, and preferred tactics for these units in package.
Give a link to Camospecs and any paint supply companies for cross promotion.

The intermediate/advanced level would be simple individual blisters of units in pieces like what we have now.

Seconded! I was never terribly interested in the game itself, but I bought quite a few of the sets. I really liked having some 'Mechs at that scale, and have repainted a few as display pieces.
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tbrminsanity

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #6 on: 13 May 2014, 20:02:47 »
The scale....As great as prepainted were, people might want to paint the minis themsleves

I have nothing but respect and admiration for people that can custom paint their minis.  If I owned Battletech, and I created prepainted minis, I'd also sell a primer paint to easily cover the standard paint job.  Personally I don't like assembling and painting minis and I don't think it is fair that I have to pay through the nose to get someone to paint my minis for me, because I can't.  This has been the biggest barrier for me to get into Battletech.  It is why I easily picked up Mechwarrior Clix.

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #7 on: 13 May 2014, 21:39:49 »
Off the top of my head, more flavorful pilots.   Not saying I want every unit in a game to have an extra special rule, but it would be cool to give the commanding officer(s) something special.
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #8 on: 14 May 2014, 13:09:06 »
Alpha Strike is taking cues from the clix game in a general sense ... faster, streamlined play with reduced stats.

I agree that adding pilot "special abilities" would be interesting ... after all, each regiment has these. Would just be a matter of play-testing the ramifications to avoid things like the Daishi pilot ... I played him at Christmastime and, well, I still feel bad for how that went for him.

Also, would LOVE to see N-scale minis released, pre-painted or not, at this point. I'm not much of a painter myself, but it's sad to have so many minis and yet be missing a number of crucial designs ...

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #9 on: 14 May 2014, 15:28:06 »
I always wanted to have a N-Scale train scenario for my Mechwarrior Clix game.  I just can't figure out how to make up rules for the train in the scenario.

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #10 on: 14 May 2014, 18:13:03 »
I have nothing but respect and admiration for people that can custom paint their minis.  If I owned Battletech, and I created prepainted minis, I'd also sell a primer paint to easily cover the standard paint job.  Personally I don't like assembling and painting minis and I don't think it is fair that I have to pay through the nose to get someone to paint my minis for me, because I can't.  This has been the biggest barrier for me to get into Battletech.  It is why I easily picked up Mechwarrior Clix.

Seconded.

I'm really interested in trying out Alpha Strike, but don't want to pay $40 per painted miniature.  Battletech totally needs prepainted minis.
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #11 on: 14 May 2014, 21:45:11 »
I always wanted to have a N-Scale train scenario for my Mechwarrior Clix game.  I just can't figure out how to make up rules for the train in the scenario.

If I was to run a train and just keep it simple, I would give it a pre-set speed (as appropriate), fixed defensive value (?) and set number of "hit points" ... treat them like mobile buildings. Now, if you want infantry riding in a coach or a flat car carrying a Kelswa, it might need to be more complicated ... maybe post a separate topic in the forum and see if anyone's run a train scenario. I like the idea, myself. Let us know what comes of it.

I recently glanced at the "Power Trains" that Target sells ... and their terrain / buildings. Anyone familiar with these and / or thoughts on scale with these?

Seconded.

I'm really interested in trying out Alpha Strike, but don't want to pay $40 per painted miniature.  Battletech totally needs prepainted minis.

Yeah, I'm totally going with Dark Age minis when I start up AS, despite the limitations ... so I can agree that Battletech needs to steal N-scale pre-painteds from MechWarrior ...

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #12 on: 15 May 2014, 10:03:20 »
Seconded.

I'm really interested in trying out Alpha Strike, but don't want to pay $40 per painted miniature.  Battletech totally needs prepainted minis.

How much are you willing to pay for a painted mini?  The unassembled minis already cost between $9 - $16.  Now you factor in the cost to assemble (glue/person's time to assemble the mini), the cost to paint (paint/person's time to paint the mini).

The benefit of the clix game was the amount of the minis produced.  I think that helped drive down the cost to make them affordable.

I believe that you would have to give up some things to get prepainted minis for CBT:
1. metal minis: go to a "Bones" or plastic mini that drives the cost / mini down
2. One piece minis: Instead of multi piece minis, you produce in one cast.  This drops the cost of assemble out of the equation. There are some costs on the back side that may deter this  though.  It also makes it harder to get pose the mech as you want it.
3.  quality:  Not all the paint jobs were the best in the clix game.  Some look liked a panda bear got a hold of the paint brush and went to work.

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tbrminsanity

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #13 on: 15 May 2014, 13:19:35 »
How much are you willing to pay for a painted mini?  The unassembled minis already cost between $9 - $16.  Now you factor in the cost to assemble (glue/person's time to assemble the mini), the cost to paint (paint/person's time to paint the mini).

The benefit of the clix game was the amount of the minis produced.  I think that helped drive down the cost to make them affordable.

I believe that you would have to give up some things to get prepainted minis for CBT:
1. metal minis: go to a "Bones" or plastic mini that drives the cost / mini down
2. One piece minis: Instead of multi piece minis, you produce in one cast.  This drops the cost of assemble out of the equation. There are some costs on the back side that may deter this  though.  It also makes it harder to get pose the mech as you want it.
3.  quality:  Not all the paint jobs were the best in the clix game.  Some look liked a panda bear got a hold of the paint brush and went to work.

I'm willing to accept these conditions if it means I can play battletech.  I'd even buy blind boosters if that would further lower production costs (by being able to "off load" less popular units and factions with more popular ones.

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #14 on: 16 May 2014, 18:53:38 »
I was reading and responding to the thread on how I would have redesigned Mechwarrior Clix and I had a brainstorm.  I always wanted to get into battletech, but I lack the time, skill, and patience needed to collect, assemble, and paint  miniatures.  This is why I got into MW:DA instead. My recommendation for Battletech would be that they should steal the idea of pre designed miniatures for new players of Battletech (and not just in the Beginners set).  Come out with boosters that have infantry, vehicles, and a mech, and have a base paint job for each faction in Battletech.What would you say Battletech should steal from Mechwarrior Clix?

I think you are missing the point of battletech, frankly and respectfully.

Play the game however you want, make your game whatever you want it to be, by all means.

But the pre-painted and random booster aspects are what alienated many, many players when Dark Age came out, with the style and poor quality control being a close second.

My pet peeve was the loss of customization, but I LOVED the idea that I could pick and choose and buy what I wanted. Paint? Could care less. Someday, when I have time. But building relaxes me and I enjoy it. I currently have over 1000 minis and two are painted more than a base coat; Second hand Daishis in my OPFOR box. People get way too intimidated by the artists among us and too hung-up on the 40K-esc culture of "paint to play". It's one part of an amazing game; take the time, learn how, or don't.

But seriously? Boosters? TBH I think that's right up there with putting out new core rules every year or less; it's a cash grab. I don't WANT to buy $200+ worth of crap I don't want for the one mini that I do. It's discouraging and a waste of my time and money. Instead of paying that money for minis you don't want, if you're hung up on it, pay a painter to paint up the mini you do want, the way you want it.

There is a time and place for boosters and that time and place is RPGs. Seriously; the tech and price tag of click minis, minus the clicker is perfect for RPGs, where having a mass collection of random PC-figures and uber-common faceless hordes of orcs, stormtroopers, zombies, ect is a bonus! This is why I buy them from my FLGS for .50 cents each, or less and have a drawer full of them for games. Booster= 1 "monster", 3 PC/NPCs and 5 mooks. $12 each and done.

What should battletech steal from clickytech? PLASTIC. Not what Wizkids used, but the kind of materials and techniques that are coming out now from the small-scale manufacturers; highly detailed miniatures...IN PLASTIC. It can be done, it is being done and sooner or later, if the mini-side wants to stay viable, then the investment must be made.

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tbrminsanity

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #15 on: 17 May 2014, 08:46:06 »
@beachhead1985

You make a very valid point, and I would never want Battletech to alienate it's core demographic.  That would kill the heart and soul of the game, the key thing that has let the game last for 30 years.  Blind boosters and pre-painted models should ONLY be a side business to draw in Mechwarrior Clix fans into the Battletech game.  I would even say it would be better for Battletech if they contracted to a third party developer to create, and market this particular line of figures (that way if it fails they can blame the third party, but they can maintain the quality control).  As I said before I have nothing but respect and admiration for the players that can assemble, and paint their own minis, I just feel left out because I can't event glue the buggers together in the first place.

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #16 on: 01 June 2014, 07:44:39 »
@beachhead1985

 As I said before I have nothing but respect and admiration for the players that can assemble, and paint their own minis, I just feel left out because I can't event glue the buggers together in the first place.

That's part what I'm talking about; I think people get intimidated, unnecessarily by the true artists among us. With the bad attitude we get from 40K that you have to paint to play, it follows naturally that you contrast and compare and if your art-fu is weak, your stuff looks bad and you feel bad and it makes it less fun.

Likewise, this is why I am not against having some easier to assemble and 1-part minis. I got introduced to the hobby through old used mechs from 3025 and 3050; I took years to acquire the skills I needed to put together say; reseen marauders and warhammers.
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tbrminsanity

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #17 on: 02 June 2014, 01:26:27 »
There definitely should be different skill level figures available (IMHO).  Currently Battletech (and their associated miniature producers) create average, to above average grade miniatures.  You need to have the dexterity and patience to be able to assemble the miniatures, but intermediate painting techniques should get you a decent two tone paint job.  I would love to see a beginners (pre-assembled. pre-painted) level miniatures (I would make these for Alpha Strike and include the corresponding cards with the figures), and an expert level (fully articulate, near clockwork level detail, that requires great amount of patience and practice to complete) for advanced players.  The expert level miniatures would probably be special figures due to the time and effort it would take to assemble and paint them. 

On a side note, I wish the BrickCommander (http://www.brickcommander.com/) guys would have been able to create conversion rules to play Battletech with their creations.  Alas they no longer update their site.  I miss that site.

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #18 on: 22 July 2014, 18:56:53 »
Yup and its a good idea, but lately the most recent one (in stores) I can remember was the Liao pack for some guys in the '87 Dossier.
I know we've got RAT packs and such online, but they aren't in stores.
So unless I have gone to IWM's site constantly I wouldn't know.

Still even then they were just collections of the minis.
That's it, there's no support as to where should a player go from there.

There's new PLASTIC lances coming out this year for Alpha Stike with unit cards. No reason not use them for BT too.

[imghttp://www.catalystgamelabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/CAT35710-Assault-Lance-Package_Back.jpg][/img]
« Last Edit: 22 July 2014, 22:27:05 by Von Ether »
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #19 on: 22 July 2014, 19:31:56 »
That's part what I'm talking about; I think people get intimidated, unnecessarily by the true artists among us. With the bad attitude we get from 40K that you have to paint to play, it follows naturally that you contrast and compare and if your art-fu is weak, your stuff looks bad and you feel bad and it makes it less fun.

Just remember - if anyone does want to try their hand at mini painting, there's a lot of folks on this forum delighted to help out! And there's also ways to do things simpler that didn't exist back in the day.

For example, magic dip! Panelling - getting the panel line details on a mini - to stand out can be achieved by a number of techniques of varying difficulty. Or, you can paint your mini one colour all over, then dip in or brush on the Dip, and - voila! Add a contrast colour - eg. green arms and legs, on a brown torso - and metallic paint for gunbarrels and joints, then dip - you'll be suprised how effective this can be. And once your confidence is up, there's a lot more to pick and choose from. Some folk love jewelling canopies , for example - I strongly prefer a semi-gloss black for cockpit glass. But I've been playing with some tricks lately on one lot of minis.

The MEchWarrior game generated several million minis all up. On that scale, painting was an affordable cost done by overseas inexpensive labour.

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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #20 on: 23 July 2014, 00:45:37 »
There's new PLASTIC lances coming out this year for Alpha Stike with unit cards. No reason not use them for BT too.

[imghttp://www.catalystgamelabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/CAT35710-Assault-Lance-Package_Back.jpg][/img]
You'll also see that in some of the threads talking about it I'm very excited over the prospect.
It has taken some time, but this is the direction Battletech needs to go in my opinion.
Sure we aren't a wargamer mini game, but we can at least provide easier roads for that community into ours.
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #21 on: 23 July 2014, 09:44:17 »
If that is the case, then Alpha Strike might need a backdoor reboot. War gamers like pretty minis and like most of the intro box minis still look they were visually designed in the 80s.

MW:DA did this by jumping the timeline.  AS may need a different strategy. Perhaps a more meta thing, like the wargame is really a cheesy TV show that pays no mind to "historical" accuracy. Then CGL can cherry pick mechs for visual impact regardless of era.
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #22 on: 24 July 2014, 08:07:48 »
I'm not even going into the art discussion.
Both MWDA and BT have had hits and misses looks-wise.
All of which determine on the person's tastes.

Personally I don't see AS needing any reboot when it comes to how the minis look.
Alpha Strike is just a game system. The looks of the pieces really are more of a fluff thing.
Project Phoenix, the Primitives, how the Mechs look in Dark Age are all sourcebook reasoning as to why they look different.

Battletech (the Universe) could always jump (insert random number) of years again, redesign the looks again, and there we go.
The Stats on the card don't care if you use the Centurion mini look from 3025 or 3145.

Especially if using Practical Line of Sight from the Companion book.
Someone's Cobra Commander action figure could proxy for a Reseen P-Hawk.  ;D
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #23 on: 24 July 2014, 12:21:02 »
Battletech (the Universe) could always jump (insert random number) of years again, redesign the looks again, and there we go.

The could, they already did, and it wasn't exactly loved. Then there's the years to fill inbetween.

The added bonuses for a meta setting would be that purists could ignore it while CGL puts some of the sweeter designs into plastic.

When it comes to lead, then yeah, a proxy rule will do for me.
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Re: What should Battletech steal from Mechwarrior Clix
« Reply #24 on: 24 July 2014, 22:18:53 »
The could, they already did, and it wasn't exactly loved. Then there's the years to fill inbetween.
Those who didn't like that setting don't have to play it.
If they did a time jump now in the Battletech game setting, I think it would be more acceptable than the way MWDA was handled.
Besides the years to fill in just give me more fun timeline stuff to read about.  O0

Quote
The added bonuses for a meta setting would be that purists could ignore it while CGL puts some of the sweeter designs into plastic.
Exactly my thinking as well. If we ever do get a new setting, like the IlClan or wherever, it could bring in new blood.
That's always a good thing.
Though I doubt we'll ever get rid of metal.

My main joy for the lance packs wasn't about the minis themselves but the access point for newbies.
One question I've seen pop up hundreds of times is "okay I have the boxed set, what's next?"
It is so much easier to point them to a nice minis box with a decent assortment and say "This is a nice start, move on to metal later if you want."
Much like the Hex Packs, these help expand out the game for those that might not want to try and hunt down Map Compiliation packs or HMM.
Kerensky: Ahh! After 300 years I'm free! It's time to conquer Terra!

Blake: Toyama-5, Kerensky's escaped. Recruit 5 House Teens with attitudes.

GO GO COMSTAR RANGERS! *Guitar Riff*
--Intercepted transmissions from children's programming on Terra 3057

 

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