"captured"pilots

[Archangel]

In theory most units would have a dedicated recovery unit that runs out to collect ejected pods before the battle even ends anyway, we just on't exactly use them on the tabletop and no author has thought of including them in any fiction. Still I'd be highly surprised if there wasn't a VTOL or Heli lurking around just to recover Pilots, at least considering real world tactics. But that's logic and that never goes well with BT.

The problem with SAR units is that they are highly susceptible to enemy fire and if just lurking about they can be easily mistaken for an artillery spotter.  Even in RL, SAR prefer going in quickly and getting out quickly.  They prefer to avoid "lurking around" to avoid being spotted and possibly shot at no matter how secure the airspace may be.

They would be dedicated to rescuing friendly pilots (MechWarrior and Aerospace) not equipment (if necessary that would be a separate team).    I believe Michael Stackpole used one (at least technically it was a SAR) VTOL in the early stages of the Battle of Luthien to recover Shin Yodama after he crashed his Skulker to kill the Elemental trying to get in.

[Acolyte]

Have you taken a look at the SAR rules in StratOps? Yep, I'd say that SAR for downed pilots would be pretty commonplace. My 'Merc unit has Ferrets equipped for SAR complete with a Valkyrie (the winged woman in armour, not the 'Mech) painted on the bottom for the downed troops to see.

   - Shane

[Archangel]

Have you taken a look at the SAR rules in StratOps? Yep, I'd say that SAR for downed pilots would be pretty commonplace. My 'Merc unit has Ferrets equipped for SAR complete with a Valkyrie (the winged woman in armour, not the 'Mech) painted on the bottom for the downed troops to see.

   - Shane

Who said they weren't common?  I certainly didn't.

I was simply disputing Battleclad's belief that there was a "dedicated recovery unit that runs out to collect ejected pods before the battle even ends".  SAR teams are dedicated to rescuing friendly forces in danger of being captured and do not worry about recover a head ejection system unless specifically ordered (and that order would likely revolve about denying vital information to the enemy rather than recovering the entire system).  Do you use your Ferrets to recover pilots and their ejected pods (or even just the ejection seat) or simply the pilot?

The only other team that regularly enters the battlefield before the fighting is over, the Ravens' R-Teams, are general salvage recovery teams recovering anything they can get their hands (or talons) on and don't focus on recovering pilots or their head ejection systems (don't believe the Clans field many of those in the first place).  Everybody else waits at least until the fighting has moved far enough away before moving in.

[Acolyte]

Actually, I was more agreeing with you. :) Salvage has the advantage of not requiring a "Golden Hour" like pilots often do. It'll still be there provided you win the battle so it can wait.

   - Shane

[CrossfirePilot]

I seem to remember a Battletech Magazine had a SAR vehicle in it.  I think it was "Stardate" the same one that showcased the Longbow.

[Nightlord01]

Actually you did.

You may have meant to say that they were designed to clear the immediate area but it comes across as they were designed to automatically return to base.

No, I said exactly what I meant, you simply interpreted that to mean more than it did. It was a simple statement, for a simplified method of tracking these things in game, and largely incidental to the entire suggestion I was making about how to track captured pilots.

Not necessarily.  One can look at it as an individual warrior claiming a personal victory over an opponent.  After the warrior's parent unit is granted hegira, he is simple leaving with his personally claimed isorla.  Consider Isabelle Pryde's disposition.  Claimed in an earlier battle during the Refusal War by Clan Wolf, her personal honor didn't allow her to return to becoming a Jade Falcon after their final victory.  Of course in a total victory, the victorious unit the captured warrior is likely going to be recovered.

Still completely illogical, because by that methodology, any Clan warrior who gets shot out of their mech/fighter/tank therefore becomes a bondsman of the Clan warrior that shot them down.

[Battleclad]

The problem with SAR units is that they are highly susceptible to enemy fire and if just lurking about they can be easily mistaken for an artillery spotter.  Even in RL, SAR prefer going in quickly and getting out quickly.  They prefer to avoid "lurking around" to avoid being spotted and possibly shot at no matter how secure the airspace may be.

They would be dedicated to rescuing friendly pilots (MechWarrior and Aerospace) not equipment (if necessary that would be a separate team).    I believe Michael Stackpole used one (at least technically it was a SAR) VTOL in the early stages of the Battle of Luthien to recover Shin Yodama after he crashed his Skulker to kill the Elemental trying to get in.

By recovery I didn't mean equipment, although I could see SAR units with magclamps to simply grab a pod or head. Further by lurking around I didn't mean it as you said, by lurking around I mean in standby near the battlefield. Although be to be honest I wasn't precise in my post, I simply assumed the implied information would be a natural assumption.

[mbear]

Still completely illogical, because by that methodology, any Clan warrior who gets shot out of their mech/fighter/tank therefore becomes a bondsman of the Clan warrior that shot them down.

Not if you think of it as a CYA move.

Star Commander: "Aff Star Colonel I did lose the Trial of Possession for the factory. I did capture this bondsman however, who can tell us all about the defenses."
Star Colonel: "Disappointing that you did not win the Trial, but at least we got something out of it. I will not challenge you to a Trial of Grievance for this failure."

[Karasu]

I seem to remember a Battletech Magazine had a SAR vehicle in it.  I think it was "Stardate" the same one that showcased the Longbow.

Indeed there was.  The Wombat, unarmed SAR VTOL and its armed cousing the Wombat Mk II.  Very strange looking vehicles IIRC.

[GhostCat]

Not if you think of it as a CYA move.

Star Commander: "Aff Star Colonel I did lose the Trial of Possession for the factory. I did capture this bondsman however, who can tell us all about the defenses."
Star Colonel: "Disappointing that you did not win the Trial, but at least we got something out of it. I will not challenge you to a Trial of Grievance for this failure."

Lets us hope that the Star Colonel doesn't stop to wonder why everyone else is laughing.

The word Decoy never entered my mind.  No, not at all.

GC

[Nightlord01]

Not if you think of it as a CYA move.

Star Commander: "Aff Star Colonel I did lose the Trial of Possession for the factory. I did capture this bondsman however, who can tell us all about the defenses."
Star Colonel: "Disappointing that you did not win the Trial, but at least we got something out of it. I will not challenge you to a Trial of Grievance for this failure."

Indeed, it is something that makes sense to do but not something that is logical to allow.

It turns warriors into playing cards, where they would change sides multiple times throughout the campaign as their mechs got destroyed. The Clans never seemed to be big on consolation prizes.

[Archangel]

Several things you have to remember.  First, usually captured Clan warriors spend time as bondsmen before becoming a warrior again.  They need to prove their worth and loyalty to their new Clan before having their bondcord cut. They aren't likely to be given the opportunity to do so until after the current battle is over.  Some bondsmen are never given that opportunity, such as a freeborn captured by Clan Smoke Jaguar which doesn't allow freeborns into their touman.  Second, there is a chance that in the process of being defeated that they are injured further delaying their return to combat.  Third, their standing with their new Clan helps determine which unit they are assigned to which in turn helps determine how likely they are to have a chance of entering combat and earn personal glory/honor.  A Warden warrior captured by a Crusader Clan is more likely to be assigned to a lesser unit away from combat.  Fourth, if a warrior is repeatedly captured by another Clan, then sooner rather than later people are going to question whether that warrior is (a) worth the effort and (b) worthy of becoming one of their Clan's warriors.

[Col Toda]

Clan bondsmen particularly Mech warriors do no fit in a unit that field solders and the mentality of such .  So I tend to use them to supplement my techs until which time I lose them in a trail of possession to their original clan or some other form of exchange or repatriation .  I would try to keep Clan techs ; Aerospace pilots and infantry as the warrior mentality is either compatible with their role or is muted by necessity such as infantry troops .

[Archangel]

Unfortunately Clans generally do not care about recovering Clan warriors captured by IS forces.  Either you exchange them at the end of the battle/planetary campaign or they are yours to deal with.  The only times I recall Clans exchanging prisoners with IS forces was at the end of the Battle of Tukayyid and Battle of Coventry.

[tbrminsanity]

In the aftermath of a battle, what is the chance that a pilot is captured?  For example, what happens to clan pilots captured by the inner sphere?  What is the chance / probability that an individual warrior is captured, and is automatic that they become (and except) bondsman to an inner sphere house / merc unit?  I ask because my players are currently fighting through Operation Bulldog, and I wonder what will happen to the pilots of the clan mechs that they capture.  Will they automatically join the Inner Sphere?  Will the players merc unit be allowed to keep them, or would the House unit they are contracted to claim them?

You should really check out the Battletech TV show (you can find the episodes on YouTube).  There is an episode that covers this.  Essentially, in the first stages of the war, when no one knew better, Clan Warriors would be willing to become Bondsmen to smart and superior warriors, but the Inner Sphere were wary of them.  This would lead to animosity between the Clan POW and the IS nation.  If the warrior was able to return to their Clan they would spread word of the unworthy IS surrats, and from that point on the Clan Warriors would not offer themselves as Bondsmen ever again.  In the reverse, any IS warrior that was willing to become a Bondsmen (Kell being the best example) would be allowed as this was a sign that the IS surrat had accepted that the Clans were the Star League returned and they had been rightfully converted.  Those that fought against becoming a bondsmen, remained the POW dogs they deserved to be.
As pointed above, this opinion would change from Clan to Clan, and IS Nation to IS Nation.

[Archangel]

In the BT Universe, the television series is a holo series loosely based upon Adam Steiner's exploits and it is considered of questionable value as a source.

[tbrminsanity]

In the BT Universe, the television series is a holo series loosely based upon Adam Steiner's exploits and it is considered of questionable value as a source.

I agree, the TV series is far from gospel.
It does mirror other BT resources in the initial interactions between the IS and the Clans.  It is reasonable to assume that the average Clanner would use their own mindset to see their enemy, and before meeting the dishonourable IS surrats, all other opponents did consider Clan etiquette.  Becoming bondsmen to a superior warrior (even if they are not Clanners) isn't unheard of, especially if the warrior fought with honour and used tactics that the Clans approve of.  Likewise, any opponent that accepts Clan Society once captured (as shown in the BT cartoon with the one LC captive) would be accepted as Bondsmen willingly (though the re-integration time would likely be longer than the average Freeborn Clansmen).

[Archangel]

The problem is that the only occasions where the IS had the opportunity to capture Clan warriors honorably were extraordinary occasions - Wolcott, Luthien, Twycross and Tukayyid.  In pretty much all other occasions the Clans' superior technology and warriors either overwhelmed their Inner Sphere opponents or the IS used dezgra tactics to achieve "victory".

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

The problem is that the only occasions where the IS had the opportunity to capture Clan warriors honorably were extraordinary occasions - Wolcott, Luthien, Twycross and Tukayyid.

  Every encounter was an opportunity to capture Clanners honorably and they were many. A fight in compliance with Clan standards of honorable combat risks higher losses that many forces may not want to pay. War isn't about capturing enemy pilots but defeating their units, taking ground and capturing stuff.

Picking up a handful of one-dimensional, whiny, primadonna pilots may not be much of a gain at all.

  My players found out that the best way to defeat the Clans using their rules is to never use 'Mechs with canon designs -Even a 3025-era zombiemech will take down Clan Omnis with the right design then once they got a hold of Clan tech, facing Clanners is less a challenge.