Author Topic: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza  (Read 159586 times)

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #900 on: 12 June 2023, 20:30:27 »
So I got my hands on the Battle of Tukayyid short story anthology, how do you all feel about the reveal about Khan Lereox and that essentially the entire Clan Nova Cat campaign was sabotaged by him?


I think *entire* is a bit strong. As I read it, it was the culmination of years of visions meant to help us fulfill the vision of Khan Drummond and General Kerensky. As a true Nova Cat, he believed in the Path that he was following (and felt intense remorse because of it). I don't think he could have known *exactly* what ComStar would do to the Cat's Maw, just bid away all aerospace support (weird for one of the best pilots ever). And still, with the exception of Wolf, we outperformed every other Clan despite our incredible losses. (And sure, maybe the order to tell Nova Cats - of all Clans - to not configure their mechs for laser weaponry and instead ammo, may have also come from him and thus lead to a guarantee that we would lose.)

I also think this needs to be put into perspective alongside two things: 1) when he was younger he was not as committed to the Ways of Seeing and our clan's appreciation of visions, and 2) his decisions during the Great Refusal and his visions of his own death just to usher in our joining the (2nd) Star League.

"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #901 on: 12 June 2023, 20:42:53 »
Every vision they had told them that change and violence were coming, which led them to side with the Inner Sphere. At best, perhaps we'd see a rump nation formed from abjured Cat survivors, a la the Imperio, or perhaps a heavily reaved group of survivors made up of those forces that never deployed to the Inner Sphere. At worst? Well, you can't kill what's already dead, so I won't go there.

Agreed it's an interesting imagining, but I think your comment above nails it. Vision after vision, after vision led us to that fate. Khan Leroux was initially skeptical of the strength of the visions, as was Khan West, but both eventually embraced making major Clan-level decisions around them.

I know other clanners like to compare us to the Scorpions and their necrosia addiction, but I think a better analog to the Ways of Seeing (and eventually the Mystic Caste) are the Mentats from Dune. You get enough members of your Clan, who have been deeply trained in self-reflection and contemplation, coming up with enough similar visions, as a leader, you are going to see patterns and trends.

All of this is to say, I agree with you, but for our Clan to *not* follow the visions and Ways of Seeing would be a betrayal of what it means to be a Nova Cat, especially if those visions are about restoring the Star League. Effectively, given the data available to them, our leadership made the decisions they did in order to fulfill what it means to be both Nova Cat and Clan.
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #902 on: 14 June 2023, 01:59:34 »
I think a better analog to the Ways of Seeing (and eventually the Mystic Caste) are the Mentats from Dune. You get enough members of your Clan, who have been deeply trained in self-reflection and contemplation, coming up with enough similar visions, as a leader, you are going to see patterns and trends.

And this is borne out in what we see of Clan visions, and especially Mystics like Kisho Nova Cat--many of them have displayed what is essentially precognition through a regimen of stress, deprivation, and a forced surrendering of one's conscious modes of thought.  Of course, this runs into the same problem that Thinkers (people with superpowers relating to perception) from the web novel Worm do: given accurate information and an objective reading of the conclusions one's visions produce, they're some of the most dangerous people around...but if their initial assumptions are wrong, or if they take the wrong lesson from what they learn, they court disaster.

Additionally, once we get past the Ways of Seeing and into the Mystic caste, we now have to contend with the massive amounts of trauma and psychological harm done, starting from early childhood, as part of making have instinctual, correct, regular visions.  Heretic's Faith (or what I remember from it) provides glimpses of it: locked alone with other children (age 5  or so?) in pitch blackness, beaten for making noise, forced to fight for food and water, randomly tested, with failure meaning execution...eventually some of them stomp another child to death just so they'll be disciplined, to break up the monotony.  I know the clans are written to be an utterly alien martial culture with Spartan methods, but the Mystic program should produce nothing but broken husks and serial killers.  Let alone the suspect wisdom of whittling down a sibko of some 50 trueborn warriors to a generous final count of 3 survivors, with any washouts culled...
Kaldumeir Nova Cat, Abtakha Mechwarrior of Clan Nova Cat, late of the Draconis Combine.

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #903 on: 14 June 2023, 16:45:36 »
...but if their initial assumptions are wrong, or if they take the wrong lesson from what they learn, they court disaster.


This would make for a wonderful Nova Cat story and much better explanation for what went wrong with our Clan (than the let's have everyone betray them until they are more or less gone).
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #904 on: 15 June 2023, 03:17:28 »
We kind of saw it in Path of Glory, wherein Zane, with his typically Crusader mindset doesn't care to really learn about Draconis Combine--or even Inner Sphere--politics, and is blindsided by his friend being an ultranationalist revanchist Yakuza associate whose code of honor dictates that duty comes before all else.  His vision foresaw the Black Dragon's hold on Kurita politics but he started putting the pieces together too late: ex.: realizing Black Dragon and Ebony Dragon had different connotations happened late in the novel. 

I do share your frustration, because there could be so many good stories, even small vignettes, told about how the Nova Cats had almost supernatural foresight and skill, but that every time they failed in their ways of seeing, they compounded loss upon loss.  Classical tragedy never really goes out of style.
Kaldumeir Nova Cat, Abtakha Mechwarrior of Clan Nova Cat, late of the Draconis Combine.

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #905 on: 15 June 2023, 13:11:00 »
Classical tragedy never really goes out of style.


Amen. It's the story of the Clans.


Zane was the first one I thought of after your initial post. It does raise an interesting question about a couple of Nova Cat things though - especially following up from @Istal_Devalis' previous post.


What I started thinking about was the difference between "Good"/Accurate and "Bad"/Inaccurate visions and predictions. This made me think about the Office of the Oathmaster and what their role is - particularly as the clan's chief vision interpreter.

That then got me thinking off of what @Istal_Devalis wrote and wondering what might have happened had Khans Leroux and Carns allowed Oathmaster Winters to challenge Focht? *If* she had succeeded, Tukayyid might not have ever happened, and the clans would have rushed to Terra. The war would have been drug out probably much longer and with a much higher toll, and the reserve clans would probably have been called up.


That also got me thinking about when Khan Leroux had his own vision to defect to the IS/Star League. I assume after Winters attacks Focht, but before Tukayyid. Did he have false visions before? Just not trust Winters (which is what cannon mentions)? Or was their something else going on behind the scenes?
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #906 on: 27 June 2023, 19:14:48 »
I mean, I think it's pretty good, but I might be slightly biased.


I've been reading @Jaim Magnus's great piece in Shrapnel #12, "It Ends in Fire", written from a Nova Cat perspective, and it got me wondering: does anyone know of other Nova Cat pieces that have appeared in Shrapnel or non-novelized sources?

Thanks!
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


Istal_Devalis

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #907 on: 28 June 2023, 08:40:59 »
Heck, I'm still wondering what happened to Oathmaster Winters after she retired. She kinda just disappeared. I asked once but they kinda just shrugged about it.

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #908 on: 28 June 2023, 10:20:10 »
Heck, I'm still wondering what happened to Oathmaster Winters after she retired. She kinda just disappeared. I asked once but they kinda just shrugged about it.
Heh. Yeah, been wondering the same. Also, what a time to be the Oathmaster! She was privy to the Clan's whole Visions during the Invasion and transition to the Star League and then in encouraging Khan West in seeing Minoru become Oathmaster and found the Mystic Caste.

Given Nova Cat views about longevity, there's still a chance that she is around and possibly with Minoru???
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


Istal_Devalis

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #909 on: 28 June 2023, 16:11:45 »
She was born in 2989. Nova Cats in leadership positions tend to get old....but not THAT old. :D
She was already 60ish during the Clan Invasion.

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #910 on: 28 June 2023, 16:23:53 »
She was born in 2989. Nova Cats in leadership positions tend to get old....but not THAT old. :D
She was already 60ish during the Clan Invasion.


I mean, it would be a stretch, but fun. Khan Drummond made it to 112 and Oathmaster Winters always did strike me as a (well-deserved) over-achiever!  ;)
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #911 on: 28 June 2023, 16:41:47 »
"Somehow, Oathmaster Winters has returned."
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The Once & Future WiseOldNovaCat

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #912 on: 29 June 2023, 19:10:23 »
If her last visions were of Minoru. The founding of the Mystic Caste and of the Clan's only way of survival I'm guessing she'd take a nothing job and stay out of the way

It's like a time travel episode of star trek when they are guaranteed never to go home, find a corner, live happy, stay the course.

I think if she believed that it was key for the Clan to be destroyed to survived she'd have done just that.

Weirdly as it sounds the whole Warden/betrayal/Combine/more betrayal storyline for the Nova Cats has probably Hardened any survivor to the idea of ever trusting the Inner Sphere again

If (as I believe) they return in the ilClan era I think it'll be closer to "original" invasion Cats than those in thebFWL
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parable

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #913 on: 29 June 2023, 21:20:49 »
Weirdly as it sounds the whole Warden/betrayal/Combine/more betrayal storyline for the Nova Cats has probably Hardened any survivor to the idea of ever trusting the Inner Sphere again

If (as I believe) they return in the ilClan era I think it'll be closer to "original" invasion Cats than those in thebFWL

I'm not sure they'll return, Minoru and a few people taking copies of the Nova Cat genelines and disappearing makes for a good unsolved mystery.  That said, they'd be wise to learn from the Ghost Bears, Goliath Scorpions, and Snow Ravens--find some minor power and bully them into integration, making clear that the Clan is the top boss but that they can still have civilian autonomy so long as they let the Clan deal with external politics.  They'd be too weak to do anything else, even if Minoru and his cadre did jet off somewhere to regroup and rebuild for an Operation REVIVAL v. 2.0.  That, or since the Nova Cats have historically had both a large naval complement and good relationships with the Sharkfoxes, they might consider (IDK if I mentioned this before) working as their ground-combat version of the Com Guard. Sea Fox being both ComStar and the MRBC means that they've got big boots to fill.  Also, CNC isn't as down on vehicles and non-Omni designs as other Clans (though out of necessity), so rebuilding their touman would be easier.  Also, the Sea Foxes have basically all of the Nova Cat production schematics anyway.
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #914 on: 30 June 2023, 05:29:32 »
Following my previous post...I'd pay money to see the Nova Cats assimilate with the Magistracy.  Leather daddy furries and burlesque catgirls could unite at last!
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Istal_Devalis

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #915 on: 30 June 2023, 08:21:54 »
I dont think Kisho's group would have enough people for a full on takeover of any big empire, though. Not unless they go all Macross and go all in on mass production of new people. Maybe a smaller deep periphery world out there somewhere.

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #916 on: 30 June 2023, 09:14:59 »
I dont think Kisho's group would have enough people for a full on takeover of any big empire, though. Not unless they go all Macross and go all in on mass production of new people. Maybe a smaller deep periphery world out there somewhere.

Depends how long the ilClan era is if the ilClan lasts 100 years they could return with greater numbers. The Smoky Jags are small at the moment but I'm sure they'll grow too.
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wantec

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #917 on: 30 June 2023, 09:27:55 »
Both halves of the Jade Falcons are small at the moment as well. Two small probationary Clans (Jags & Cats) could be a thing.
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cmerwin

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #918 on: 30 June 2023, 22:52:37 »
Both halves of the Jade Falcons are small at the moment as well. Two small probationary Clans (Jags & Cats) could be a thing.

Yeah, and in some ways this would be great. CSJ basically owes us for their entire survival. Paul Moon has been recognized by the ilKhan and is *married* to a Nova Cat (who followed a Vision Quest she set in motion under Khan Leroux and Oathmaster Winters). Color me a slow-adapting Nova Cat, but Paul Moon's first and foremost priorities are to Smoke Jaguar, and _assuming_ he actually fulfills the debt he owes our Clan (which is a big ask IMHO), then maybe we will see a token gesture to the Nova Cats. I just think that Paul Moon is politically too savvy and cautious, is too Smoke Jaguar, and while I expect him to remember his debt to the Nova Cats, I assume it will be a lower priority to *everything* else. Even if Star Captain Trent died a Nova Cat, in both their minds, Trent was Smoke Jaguar: I may be old in my wounds, but I expect no help from a Smoke Jaguar. Maybe the story of Khans Rosse and Ismiril changed Moon's mind. I hope I am wrong in my doubt . I have a hard time imagining the Smoke Jaguars ever doing anything for us.
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


wantec

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #919 on: 01 July 2023, 08:59:08 »
One thing to keep in mind is that Paul Moon stayed with the Fidelis, he didn't go with the new Jaguars. Now the first Khan was Prohaska Moon, a trueborn direct descendent of Paul. In preparation for a return and an ilClan, the new Jaguars had restarted their iron wombs and such. Depending on how many they did, they might be in better shape than the Terran Falcons.
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #920 on: 01 July 2023, 09:13:02 »
Ideology of the Fidelis were very good, it promise a better social mix and behavior.
Id really HATE to see what made the Fidelis society so good and honorable back slide into crappy Clan they were that caused their annihilation in the forest place. 

Both novels written about them were essentially on par with this Clan redeemed, but I actually think someone not really connected to those books will lose that vibe.  As far I aware, definition of Trueborn extends to only if those who have Trueborn parents and kept it that way, there was no evidence of them having Ironwombs.

That could be true for the spirit cats, but there no way to know Alaric will extend his policy of Clans can only annihilated Clans, will redeem the Nova Cats as Clan Spirit Cat.  It really depends if there's going to be a writer who wants to write that story and if the powers that be will allow it.
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #921 on: 01 July 2023, 10:54:50 »
One thing to keep in mind is that Paul Moon stayed with the Fidelis, he didn't go with the new Jaguars. Now the first Khan was Prohaska Moon, a trueborn direct descendent of Paul. In preparation for a return and an ilClan, the new Jaguars had restarted their iron wombs and such. Depending on how many they did, they might be in better shape than the Terran Falcons.

Not to derail the Nova Cat thread but I think you're probably right. The Fidelis cleaned out all their infastructure before falling in behind the ilClan while the Jade Falcons up and left everything behind in their quest to chase down the Wolves.

If the two sides of Falcon reunite then not so much.

As for the Nova Cat refugees they are probably in the same boat as the Falcons in many ways. They've got two seperate halfs of a Clan one has resources and support but none of the heritage and "bloodlines" that the Clan's respect. While the other half has the heritage and the bloodlines but little in the way of support and resources.
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #922 on: 01 July 2023, 15:22:02 »
Not to derail the Nova Cat thread but I think you're probably right. The Fidelis cleaned out all their infastructure before falling in behind the ilClan while the Jade Falcons up and left everything behind in their quest to chase down the Wolves.

If the two sides of Falcon reunite then not so much.

As for the Nova Cat refugees they are probably in the same boat as the Falcons in many ways. They've got two seperate halfs of a Clan one has resources and support but none of the heritage and "bloodlines" that the Clan's respect. While the other half has the heritage and the bloodlines but little in the way of support and resources.

The Nova Cats with Kisho have bloodheritages but the Spirit Cats should actually have tons of bloodnamed warriors of excellent pedigree. When half of Clan Nova Cat migrated to the Republic it was the best three galaxies and all their naval assets, meaning the best warriors were in there too. When the Spirit Cats formed, you would have seen a lot of motivated Nova Cat warriors who held to the old ways of visions join in.

And given that we know Rikkard Nova Cat migrated over with sections of all his castes (Scientists, laborers, etc.), they probably have a limited iron womb program running.
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #923 on: 01 July 2023, 17:38:19 »
Trueborn requires iron wombs and the clans gene process. While the Fidelis didn't take iron wombs, they did take samples of the Jaguar genes and the knowledge & tech to build iron wombs.

The Spirit Cats, as clan enclaves in the Republic, had gene samples and iron wombs, so even if Kisho doesn't have them all, the Spirit Cats should have have the capability
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #924 on: 01 July 2023, 19:57:02 »
Something to note about the Spirit Cats as well as they seem to be one of the most liberal Clan societies when it comes to freeborns. Kev Rosse was freeborn but bloodnamed, and rose to the position of Galaxy Commander, which I don't think is too common. Given how the Clan Protectorate is also using clusters of both Spirit Cat Warriors and Freeborn recruits from Protectorate worlds, I don't think they have as much an issue with freeborns as any other Clan would.
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #925 on: 01 July 2023, 22:14:34 »
In general, Nova Cat was more liberal than many (most?) other Clans regarding not just trueborn/freeborn status, but also age, caste, and unit composition (at least post-abjuration).  Kev Rosse won his Galaxy Commander rank as a Nova Cat, before he formed the Spirit Cats, so that liberalism seems to be a feature of both the Spirit Cats and their parent Clan.

My read on it is that the importance placed on visions mean that there's an element to both Cat cultures that can't be pinned down by trials and hierarchies.  In essence, Nova/Spirit Cat mysticism serves as a democratizing factor, making distinctions like free/trueborn, age, and even 'Mech type less important when compared to the Ways of Seeing.  Now I'm wondering--is there any mention of non-Warriors undergoing vision quests or having visions?  I know Warriors must sacrifice vineers for their brand of pyromancy, which obviously Merchants, Scientists, and Laborers wouldn't have, but basically a knock-off of the Warrior ritual.  There's precedent for something similar in Scientist caste Labnames.
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #926 on: 01 July 2023, 22:17:14 »
I agree with you, although Kev Rosse is a bit of a special circumstance both in & out of universe. First the easier OOU, he was a MWDA character and while they had some BT staff with them, they still made decisions that were unusual for previous conditions.

Now for the in-universe aspect, he was the freeborn son of a trueborn Nova Cat warrior who joined the Republic. Growing up in a Republic clan enclave also afforded some extra flexibility allowing him to follow the Diana Pryde-type path to a bloodname.
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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #927 on: 02 July 2023, 03:02:10 »
I agree--I think it'd be ordinarily impossible, or at least prohibitively difficult for a freeborn child, even if born from the pairing of 2 trueborn Nova Cats, to earn a bloodname.  However, they'd still be able to rise in the ranks and even earn a position of prestige (e.g., being part of a Keshik), held back mostly by the lack of 13 or so years in intense sibko training.  All of which would be unthinkable for many (most?) other Clans.  I'm hazy on whether they'd ever be afforded the honor of having their giftake accepted into the breeding program, but the idea that that might even be plausible is pretty radical.

Also, to add a bit more of a Watsonian perspective on your first point: the Dark Age was a time where everyone would have to make unusual decisions that went against previously-held wisdom.  The standard modes of currency, communication, and continuity of governance were no more--allowing an IS-savvy and freeborn--but loyal and technically eligible for it--warrior the chance to earn a bloodname, even if considered abhorrent by Clan tradition, makes sense.  We saw a smaller scale version of this in Path of Glory, where Zane balks at but accepts deviations from the Clan way, such as IS-style joint exercises with the DCMS, zellbrigen not even a consideration, or trading a Nova Cat for a Pack Hunter to help build relations with another exiled Clan.  edit: accepts should be read as 'doesn't commit insubordination over'
« Last Edit: 02 July 2023, 05:14:38 by parable »
Kaldumeir Nova Cat, Abtakha Mechwarrior of Clan Nova Cat, late of the Draconis Combine.

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #928 on: 02 July 2023, 12:33:36 »
Zane trades a Jenner IIC for the Pack Hunter then adds Ferro to it overall I think he came out ahead
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

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Re: Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza
« Reply #929 on: 02 July 2023, 14:15:45 »
Zane trades a Jenner IIC for the Pack Hunter then adds Ferro to it overall I think he came out ahead

No, his Jenner IIC was destroyed, his CO gives him the Pack Hunter as replacement, lets him take it for a test drive, then drops this bomb:

"A Trial of Possession?" Steiner said. "No, Zane, that was not how we acquired the Pack Hunter. We got it in exchange for a Nova Cat. You are piloting a 'Mech that our Khans thought important enough to own that we traded the pride of our Touman."

Also, IIRC, he never got to swap the standard for ferro-fibrous--it was on his to-do list but he got merc'd before he got a chance.
Kaldumeir Nova Cat, Abtakha Mechwarrior of Clan Nova Cat, late of the Draconis Combine.

 

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