Register Register

Author Topic: Talk to me about the Crab  (Read 2796 times)

Evil Imperial

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 52
  • Destroying all who dare to oppose me
Talk to me about the Crab
« on: 18 September 2014, 22:53:35 »
A mech with generally four energy weapons, good armor, generally reliable, and also gives no *****.

Surprised the Republic didn't ask for a upgraded version from Cosara or even a simple upgrade for the 45 with the usual C3i swap for a C3S and Guardian ECM. Then again they probably are building the Royal Crab which even in this hypertech era, still is surprisingly a adequate 'mech

Anyone got stories, suggested uses for it, or whatever, do tell.
Conjurer (Hellhound) = Wolverine IIC
Proof:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090213010515/http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,42093.0/all.html

I mean, you are telling physics to go screw itself with enough power to let you travel faster than light, its going to fight back as best as it can. - VhenRa, on TDS

Mattlov

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1205
  • Fnord.
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #1 on: 18 September 2014, 23:51:50 »
Solid design, but one that always needs friends.  It simply isn't a scary machine by itself.  As a lancemate with a couple mediums and a heavy, and suddenly, the Crab looks great!  It can't pick on units heavier than it (everything outguns it), can harass mediums, and the large lasers can be a threat to lights.

It can put consistent (but not great) damage downrange, and is a zombie in most configurations.  Most of the time its lancemates will draw more fire, allowing it to just plod along, plinking away at targets with large lasers.  Eventually, the lance either wins, or the (probably) relatively undamaged Crab withdraws.

Alternatively, there are people who hate Crabs for this exact reason, and wipe them out as quickly as possible.  But this takes a bit of firepower, so can provide an advantage in its own right.
"The rules technically allow all sorts of bad ideas." -Moonsword


garhkal

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #2 on: 18 September 2014, 23:57:48 »
My first experience against one was when it started tearing into a warhammer i had, just after the warhammer targeted an enemy Maurader.  Almost lost an arm to it.
My 2nd and third experiences were also against them and they did prove to hard to kill.  Also the fact it carries 16 heat meant it could unload both larges on a run for only a little overheat.  6 overheat on an alpha strike (-1 move).

Facing off against them, the best tactic is to stay outside of 10 hexes, so you can pound on them.  Using one depends on which.
The base 27.  Walk or run right into the enemy pounding away with a 2-2-1 spread on your large lasers, so as to not overheat too much.  Same with the 20 (only diff is the 27 has 95% max armor due to mounting ferro fiber, while the 20 only has 85% max armor.
The C version has a C3 slave in place of its medium laser, so your alpha strike only heats you up 3.  But their best use is as a hard hitting hard to take down spotter.  Sweet spot depends on your allies.  If lots of LRMs then spot yourself at 7 range, otherwise 2-3. 
The 30, with its upgraded weapons and C3/guardian combo make it a beast, but the having an XL engine does make it a little easier to take out (just need to whittle down one of the torsos).  But with only 14 double heat, shooting both PPCs and running pops you to 4 on the overheat scale 1 shy of movement mods.  So you have a 2-1-2-1 firing spread, though having the IC3 makes up for it as in the rounds you pop off only 1, there is still more fire coming in from allies.

It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Nightgaun7

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 535
  • The ends justify the means.
    • Built for War - A BattleTech TRO by fans like you!
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #3 on: 19 September 2014, 00:26:58 »
I've not been too fond of the Crab in actual gameplay. It just doesn't hit hard enough for my tastes, and never seems to take as much of a beating as it should in theory. CRB-45 is my favorite, but it's got more of a glass jaw to begin with so if you want something sturdy look elsewhere.

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6821
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #4 on: 19 September 2014, 00:44:36 »
Like using the standard a a heavy scout considering it can take a fair amount of damage from any hidden units but the CRB-30 seems to be the only one with enough fire power to frighten other mechs in the same weight class IMO. The XL makes it slightly more fragile under that armor but the ER weapons and ECM helps by keeping you at a distance and a hard target for LRMs.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Nahuris

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2073
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #5 on: 19 September 2014, 01:13:33 »
I rather like them..... and frequently field a pair of these. First, they are relatively inexpensive, compared to other mediums......  and, as has been noted..... they just don't seem to get targeted much. I find that most people assume that they are not that dangerous, and just kind of ignore them.... which lets you do all kinds of sneaky things with them. I like to pair them with heavy slow assaults, like Awesomes, or Stalkers..... where they can react to backstabbers, and still add their firepower to the big boy.  Trust me, and Atlas, supported by two of these, is a PAIN to deal with.......especially in 3025.

Sadly, the Crab's higher tech variants do not add enough --- and while the 27b scoffs at heat, and the 27sl has great maneuverability.....the two concepts did not seem to be considered in concert.... as in, a 27b with 13 or 14 double heat sinks and jump jets.... which would have been a strong contender.

Now, a version of the 30, replacing the C3i with additional double heat would be a strong contender in later eras.... as 2 ERPPC's and the heat to use them, makes for a great direct support design.

The biggest thing to remember, with the Crab, is that it's a team player..... it's really the laser version of a Whitworth.... it does it's job of supporting it's lance, and it does it well..... but will always get ignored over other, flashier, designs.  In the end, you can use it like a trooper, and it will easily match an Enforcer.... especially the 3025 versions of both designs..... making it a great add for a line unit, and while it doesn't get the extra 2 points of damage that the Enforcer gets with the AC... it also doesn't run out of ammo .....while in close terrain, those large lasers have the damage to almost match PPC's..... and the Crab can keep up a good fire rate.... usually better than PPC toting designs..... which in the 3025 era, will allow it to rack up higher damage, over time.

It's final advantage is that most people unconsciously ignore it.... and sometimes, that's the best thing going.

Nahuris
« Last Edit: 19 September 2014, 13:57:32 by Nahuris »
"A friend will calm you down when you are angry, but a BEST friend will skip along beside you with a baseball bat singing "someone's gonna get it."

"If we are ever in a situation, where I am the voice of reason, we are in a very bad situation."

Col.Hengist

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9189
  • Konrad ' Hengist " Littman Highlander 732b
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #6 on: 19 September 2014, 12:41:31 »
I love the crab. As Nahuris said the later versions are really nice... Especially the ppc one.

Since it is a team player here's a good lance. 2 crabs, 2 starslayers. Subtract one of either and substitute a Flashman... Oh yessssss  O0
Lyran Commonwealth,6th Donegal Guards-Nightstar
Marian Hegemony, II Legio-Cataphract
Clan Hell's Horses, Gamma Galaxy-Summoner
Clan Grinch goat- gamma goat.

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7919
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #7 on: 19 September 2014, 16:01:43 »
I'm a little surprised there was never a Crab IIC.  seems like a solid, reliable trooper like this would be a shoe-in for a clantech upgrade by Kerensky's children.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, cowerer of Dainmar Liao, Creator of the Model Army, Rescuer of Robinson, Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

RogueK

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 112
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #8 on: 19 September 2014, 16:33:37 »
I love the crab. They may be poor duellists, but I find that they tend to always pull their weight as part of a team.

Rage

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 172
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #9 on: 19 September 2014, 17:16:06 »
I'm a little surprised there was never a Crab IIC.  seems like a solid, reliable trooper like this would be a shoe-in for a clantech upgrade by Kerensky's children.

Meh. No need for such an extensive rebuild to become a IIC. Clantech and a couple extra sinks for a Crab-C and you're golden.


As for the Crab itself, I'm only really fond of the Royal, Regular and Succession Wars versions, if only for my love of tough, cheap zombies.

TigerShark

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4812
    • MekWars: Dominion
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #10 on: 19 September 2014, 17:33:00 »
It's an underwhelming trooper design that has a lot of ups and very few downs. That it's under-powered is a non-issue. The SLDF had to fight in multiple environments and most of the designs of the day were incapable of doing so. If you're on a high-heat world, most designs couldn't fire very well. High-gravity means all weapons but energy are useless. Zero-gravity and a location can be breached, rendering the location useless.

The Crab can handle all of these situations, despite lacking firepower. Its SFE means a torso can be taken out and it still keeps going. That's pretty valuable in zero-G. Combine that with zero ammo to explode. That's better than 90% of the designs of the day.
  W W W . M E K W A R S - D O M I N I O N . C O M

  "You will fight to the last soldier, and when you die, I will call upon your damned soul to speak horrible curses at the enemy."
     - Orders of Emperor Stefan Amaris to his troops

garhkal

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #11 on: 20 September 2014, 15:44:12 »
I'm a little surprised there was never a Crab IIC.  seems like a solid, reliable trooper like this would be a shoe-in for a clantech upgrade by Kerensky's children.

Would a crab IIC weigh in at the same 50 tons or be heavier?
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7919
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #12 on: 20 September 2014, 15:47:35 »
Could be lighter as well, like the Griffin IIC and Shadow Hawk IIC.  Might be an interesting challenge for the mech design boards.  Let's go there and quit cluttering this thread.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, cowerer of Dainmar Liao, Creator of the Model Army, Rescuer of Robinson, Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

pensiveswetness

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1039
  • Delete this account, please?
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #13 on: 20 September 2014, 22:50:21 »
i've always been a fan of the CRB-20 not because of its weapons but because its a 5/8 mover. Like everyone else has stated, it's a team design meant to compliment it's other lancemates.

Khymerion

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2499
    • The Iron Hack
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #14 on: 21 September 2014, 00:07:03 »
This has always been one of my long favorite mechs.  It isn't exceptional but in the end, when compared to other mediums of it's day (2750 and 3025), it was a good solid mech that could move when it needed to.   It was a very forgiving chassis that did not complain much when it came time for the inevitable piles of refits and modifications that players were going to subject it to.   Sure, it could have moved faster, it could have hit harder, it could have been armored more...  but in the late 80's and early 90s...  this was not a bad mech to push around.   Especially for the era it was built in.   It didn't excel at much but it was not so bad that you wished you could toss it in a dumpster or pray no one golden BBs it.

That and two LLs are not that bad for a 50 ton mech... especially since it could fire them rather regularly without stressing it out.

The royal version is just...  nice.   It is the logical version (everyone thought it up at least at some time in the past) and since being given it as a canon variant, it becomes the machine it should have been when it was introduced.   I love driving it because it just is a reliable machine to support medium lances.

The XL engined Star League variant is a bit of a let down.   Sure, twin LPLs... but they are doomed by the fact that they are IS LPLs.   It can jump but not enough to really make it stand out.   Never really enjoyed driving this one but I would pack one in with a Crab lance to help pick apart bugs and fast lights that got in close if I was going to be running homogenous mech chassis lances that day.

The CRB-30 feels like a slightly improved royal Crab with a slightly better punch, having to fire it like an old warhammer or the original Crab, and the fun of driving anything with a C3i if the other players on the table forgot ECM (which most do).   It is modest fun to drive but nothing I would really write home about (which might as well be the tag line for the whole chassis).

I don't like the CRB-45.   I just never got onto the super medium laser band wagon... sorry, the L-PPC.   Yeah, it has more potential for damage and can pepper shots about but I guess I never really enjoyed driving this variant of the Crab.   The fact that it runs pretty much cold, moved faster, and is loaded with toys and tricks kind of made it feel...  kinda generic.  It just never clicked...  not when I could be sticking to the Royal and 30 variants.

All in all, the Crab has been a long time favorite and will probably continue to keep driving them long into the future till the game completely relegates them to the scrap heap.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

garhkal

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #15 on: 21 September 2014, 04:34:32 »
Could be lighter as well, like the Griffin IIC and Shadow Hawk IIC.  Might be an interesting challenge for the mech design boards.  Let's go there and quit cluttering this thread.

Sounds like a plan.
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17283
  • Dang it!
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #16 on: 22 September 2014, 21:56:35 »
I'm not sure why the Crab didn't get the nod to continue.  The WoB did have refitted ones for their Militia, but that could be part the reason why.  No one else was producing them when the Star League tech renaissance happened in the 3050s.  I think people were trying coming up with something new.   
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

Col.Hengist

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9189
  • Konrad ' Hengist " Littman Highlander 732b
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #17 on: 23 September 2014, 10:36:08 »
Corsara Weaponries was able to restart production of the original Crab in the 3050s and brand-new variants began turning up.

Quote from Sarna. So they were doing stuff in the 3050's
Lyran Commonwealth,6th Donegal Guards-Nightstar
Marian Hegemony, II Legio-Cataphract
Clan Hell's Horses, Gamma Galaxy-Summoner
Clan Grinch goat- gamma goat.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17283
  • Dang it!
Re: Talk to me about the Crab
« Reply #18 on: 23 September 2014, 11:22:56 »
Corsara Weaponries was able to restart production of the original Crab in the 3050s and brand-new variants began turning up.

Quote from Sarna. So they were doing stuff in the 3050's

I think only thing that was frustrating for me, was that the Obective PDF Series didn't include anything in side the then Terran Protectorate and what was situation there including Northwind.   Least I know if anyways.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants