Abandoned and dead-end tech

[jklantern]

Has TacOps taught you nothing? Of course there are rules for those! :D

This should be a sigline.  Or perhaps just the banner for the entirety of the Forums.

Right, so radically unsafe nuclear death-bot with rifle cannons, compact heat sinks, and mechanical jump boosters.  What do we name it?   :D

[Weirdo]

Bob. 8)

[Jal Phoenix]

Vees need more armor PER FACING, not more armor total.

So I've hit your JVN-10N Javelin with five medium lasers from the front arc.  Let's see, that a location each for CT, RT, LL and 2 for the RA.  Looks like I've penetrated the armor on your right arm, roll for critical.  8!  You're out a hand actuator.  Well, since you have no guns there it doesn't make much difference unless you want to punch something.

Now, I've also hit your Scimitar with five medium lasers to the front arc. Let's see, the locations are front, front, front, front and front.  That reduces you from 21 armor to zero, with four points transferring, and since you've only got 4 points of IS, that means your Scimitar goes boom.

Looks to me like the number of facings matter.

[Stinger]

I'd say that Case-less AC ammo is a bit dead end, mainly because I have never heard of anyone using it.

Now, if I could have Case-less Specialty ammo, now I have some ideas...

[SCC]

I'd say that Case-less AC ammo is a bit dead end, mainly because I have never heard of anyone using it.

Now, if I could have Case-less Specialty ammo, now I have some ideas...

It depends. Case-less Ammo doubles the number of rounds per ton, but can't be mixed with ANY other ammo type. As most units already have multiple tons of ammo it's not that useful

[haesslich]

This should be a sigline.  Or perhaps just the banner for the entirety of the Forums.

Right, so radically unsafe nuclear death-bot with rifle cannons, compact heat sinks, and mechanical jump boosters.  What do we name it?   :D

Jet Alone. Don't forget to install the safeties.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It depends. Case-less Ammo doubles the number of rounds per ton, but can't be mixed with ANY other ammo type. As most units already have multiple tons of ammo it's not that useful

Caseless ammo is most useful on old mechs that had tiny ammo bins, like the Enforcer or that 3050 Hunchback variant.

[Stinger]

Caseless ammo is most useful on old mechs that had tiny ammo bins, like the Enforcer or that 3050 Hunchback variant.

But does anyone really use it?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Officially, not that I'm aware of.  But the option to do so exists.

[SCC]

Officially, not that I'm aware of.  But the option to do so exists.

AFAIK baring designs carrying LB-X AC's which will indicate if a ton of ammo is slug or cluster the ammo specialty of a given ton of ammo on a 'Mech is decided during FORCE construction

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yes.

[massey]

To get back on topic. I can see some of the more advanced IS items fading away in favor of more advanced Clan tech. Much like it did with the Clans.

I agree with this.  The Inner Sphere Gauss Rifle should just become the Clan Gauss Rifle.  The Light Gauss gets dropped entirely.  Heavy PPC disappears as the IS eventually gets the Clan ER PPC.

There's really no reason to maintain the two separate techs these days.

[DarkISI]

Clearly somebody needs to make a 'Mech with mechanical jump boosters, compact heat sinks and Rifle Cannons as its main guns.

Can we throw in an ICE while we're at it, or is there something funnier we can jam in there instead?

Don't tempt me. I'm crazy enough to actually shoehorn something along those lines into some kind of product. :P

[Wrangler]

Actually rifle cannons aren't as bad people think, barring ammo the Heavy Rifle (Cannon) is actually a better choice then the AC/5

Its too bad there can't be primitive alternate ammo for these weapons.  Optional ammunition been used since the invention of the Cannon itself, with all sort of creative and nasty ways bump off marching militia men and blasting holes into sailing warships on the high seas.   Alternate ammo could be kept basic with penalties against modern targets just like the guns themselves.

[Atlas3060]

Right, so radically unsafe nuclear death-bot with rifle cannons, compact heat sinks, and mechanical jump boosters.  What do we name it?   :D

Protoman.
No wait, there's too much potential legal problems with Capcom.
Oh who are we kidding, like they'll use those characters in a future title ever.

[Wrangler]

Don't tempt me. I'm crazy enough to actually shoehorn something along those lines into some kind of product. :P

You could make it a variant of the Raider ICE-Powered BattleMech.  The Mk III, now coming even less effective weapons at effective prices!

[Sir Chaos]

Don't tempt me. I'm crazy enough to actually shoehorn something along those lines into some kind of product. :P

Please, please, PLEASE put the ammo bins in the legs and give it MASC. The Targe doesn´t want to be alone any more.

[Khymerion]

Would the Thunderbolt line of missiles count as a dead-end technology?

They are extremely heavy in this post-everyone has clan tech era, easily intercepted, there are no torpedo versions of it, no special warheads nor can make use of any kind of special electric equipment.   They are missiles so it can't benefit from a targetting computer.

All in all, while I love the Thunderbolts and have since the ancient days of their introduction, in this modern era, it really feels like a lack luster foot note in history.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Its too bad there can't be primitive alternate ammo for these weapons.  Optional ammunition been used since the invention of the Cannon itself, with all sort of creative and nasty ways bump off marching militia men and blasting holes into sailing warships on the high seas.   Alternate ammo could be kept basic with penalties against modern targets just like the guns themselves.

We could give them ammo filled with Wasps genetically modified to produce sea-krait venom. :D

[martian]

Would the Thunderbolt line of missiles count as a dead-end technology?

They are extremely heavy in this post-everyone has clan tech era, easily intercepted, there are no torpedo versions of it, no special warheads nor can make use of any kind of special electric equipment.   They are missiles so it can't benefit from a targetting computer.

All in all, while I love the Thunderbolts and have since the ancient days of their introduction, in this modern era, it really feels like a lack luster foot note in history.

They have their small niche - for example, they can be launched from cover indirectly. So you don't have to be afraid of return fire. That's something you can't do with GR or HPPC.

And they are less heat intensive. For example compare two Avatar configurations: AV1-OH and AV1-OI. The -OH with twin HPPCs has enough heat sinks to cool those weapons, but if enemy brings Infernos or Plasma weapons, you may be in trouble. The -OI with twin Thunderbolts has sufficient cooling reserve.

So compare AV1-OG, -OH and -OI.


P.S. Almost forgot: Thunderbolt-20 can deliver concentrated damage, headcap with one hit (as GR or HPPC) and force PSR (GR and HPPC can't do that) if it doesn't headcap. And all that indirectly. I guess that this may be the niche of Thunderbolts. What other common weapon except artillery can do all that?

[Khymerion]

They have their small niche - for example, they can be launched from cover indirectly. So you don't have to be afraid of return fire. That's something you can't do with GR or HPPC.

And they are less heat intensive. For example compare two Avatar configurations: AV1-OH and AV1-OI. The -OH with twin HPPCs has enough heat sinks to cool those weapons, but if enemy brings Infernos or Plasma weapons, you may be in trouble. The -OI with twin Thunderbolts has sufficient cooling reserve.

So compare AV1-OG, -OH and -OI.


P.S. Almost forgot: Thunderbolt-20 can deliver concentrated damage, headcap with one hit (as GR or HPPC) and force PSR (GR and HPPC can't do that) if it doesn't headcap. And all that indirectly. I guess that this may be the niche of Thunderbolts. What other common weapon except artillery can do all that?

Nothing but I don't see a 2nd generation or refined version of it coming out as time and more advanced toys arrive, so it would be square in the sights of a dead end tech.    Though the T-Bolt 15 is also capable of head capping.

[martian]

Nothing but I don't see a 2nd generation or refined version of it coming out as time and more advanced toys arrive, so it would be square in the sights of a dead end tech.

It may be, but currently we have only those existing "standard" Thunderbolt classes, no improved versions.

Though the T-Bolt 15 is also capable of head capping.

Sure, but it can't force PSR as Thunderbolt-20.

As I said, I think that Thunderbolts (especially their heavier models) are niche weapons, but in their niche they are probably safe as probably nothing similar exists.

[Jal Phoenix]

We could give them ammo filled with Wasps genetically modified to produce sea-krait venom. :D

Don't.. invoke... him!  Remember, that wasn't his only "dead end" idea.  There were also Inflato LRMs, which got into one of the old MNA magazines. After firing, each missile inflated to the size of a Thunderbolt, so a single LRM 20 was effectively firing 20 Thunderbolt-20's.  Then there was the magnifying glass in space, used to focus sunlight on a 'Mech on the ground...  Crap.  I'm invoking him, aren't I!   [wildandcrazy]

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Nothing but I don't see a 2nd generation or refined version of it coming out as time and more advanced toys arrive, so it would be square in the sights of a dead end tech.    Though the T-Bolt 15 is also capable of head capping.

Lack of a refined version doesn't mean that it's a dead end.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Nothing but I don't see a 2nd generation or refined version of it coming out as time and more advanced toys arrive, so it would be square in the sights of a dead end tech.    Though the T-Bolt 15 is also capable of head capping.

Could be they get some sort of guidance system add-on like Artemis and Apollo.  Call it the Athena system, to stick with the "children of Zeus whose names start with A" theme.

[Wrangler]

Headhunter SRMs,  good idea, still a dead weapon system unless people like have all sorts fun when someone fire thems... ;)

[Carbon Elasmobranch]

It may be, but currently we have only those existing "standard" Thunderbolt classes, no improved versions.
Sure, but it can't force PSR as Thunderbolt-20.

As I said, I think that Thunderbolts (especially their heavier models) are niche weapons, but in their niche they are probably safe as probably nothing similar exists.

When your only competition is artillery that spreads damage out sans TAG spotters, you're in an okay place.

[martian]

I used AV1-OI Avatar with Thunderbolts, but I wasn't entirely satisfied. Not enough ammo.

I took the Orochi too, and it was much better experience. Even if only one missile hit, enemy 'Mechs failed some of their PSR. Plus, its much heavier armor meant that I wasn't afraid to step out of the cover to get the best shot. Even its BV is not too bad.

[jklantern]

Don't tempt me. I'm crazy enough to actually shoehorn something along those lines into some kind of product. :P

Hey, I've always wanted some random piece of nonsense I've said on these forums to become canon.  I wouldn't even want any sort of credit.  Just a glance in the book and going, "Hey, I can't believe that ACTUALLY HAPPENED!  :D"

[Wrangler]

Would a Infantry fired Davy Crockett count as obsolete dead end?  Weapon that will likely wipe out the poor shumks infantry unit dumb enough fire it since it has crapy range.