Register Register

Author Topic: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo  (Read 64974 times)

pat_hdx

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #660 on: 19 February 2020, 19:46:37 »
Quote
Wondering because the Arana features Clan ER lasers and a fusion engine, yet the Scorpions have apparently put lower-spec "improved" equipment into production. And the Clan military proper apparently uses better quality stuff than what the security caste does.

I mostly agree with what people are writing above, but I think Interstellar Operations on page 30 puts it best:

Quote
The Escorpión Imperio uses Mixed Tech with an Inner Sphere technology base, but retains the ability to produce Clan weapons and equipment.

 I think the writers were very clever here. You want the Imperio to have a Mad Maxish feel, yet retain some top line Clan Tech units and Equipment. How do you justify it?

To me it is a question of being able to do ANYTHING, but not being able to do EVERYTHING.

They probably DID bring a limited amount of equipment capable of producing even the most advanced tech. I would suspect it is kept on Industrial Dropships (like those mentioned in Wars of Reaving) that can be quickly evacuated. However, said Clan tech equipment gobbles up resources and requires highly skilled Clan Technicians to operate.

What do you prefer? To have one of your rare Clan Technicians produce one CERLL on an industrial dropship over one day, or have that same Clan Technician oversee the production of 10 Improved Large Lasers in your new big spacious Complex on Navarre while training up 10 Castille Natives to eventually be able to produce higher tech stuff?

The other thing that is implied, but not totally spelled out, is that a lot higher Tech resources and trained personnel will be needed to get a good ship yard up and running (probably with some of the stuff they won from the Lum ship yards). Wars of Reaving States on pg 160 that: "...constructing such facilities is a priority", but it would be several years before they could even kick off the planning.

I read that as 1. it is a priority, and 2. A shipyard(s) is a long term drain on resources and  highly trained human capital. So for a long time you are liable to get lots of "good enough" Fun/Funky mechs with these "Improved" weapons rather than a Dire Wolf production line.

Fun fact from an under appreciated source:

Quote
at the end of 3071, the Redacted joined the Fourteenth Scorpion Grenadiers and elements of the Fire Mandrill’s Kindraa Matilla-Carrol in taking Clan Coyote’s enclave. Splitting the spoils of war gained the Scorpions new weapon prototypes and design notes from the development of the Coyotl and Lupus.

I bet the Coyotl, Lupus, and maybe the Woodsman are the first Omnis the Imperio gets.
« Last Edit: 20 February 2020, 18:11:26 by pat_hdx »

Empyrus

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5296
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #661 on: 19 February 2020, 20:06:11 »
Mad Max world...
Think... uh, Mad Max Scorpions (Escorpion Imperio whatever it is is too difficult a name) are becoming one of my favorite factions in the game. But i'll leave them for later, got too many forces under development already.
Valiant VLT-3E variant, Blade BLD-XR variant, Void (Minelayer) for fan funding
(Also Atlas AS7-K2)

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8661
  • Running circles around the competition...
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #662 on: 20 February 2020, 04:58:23 »
I love the Imperio for all the above reasons.  It's the setting with the most flavor and mix of hope for the future and desperation of the immediate present.
« Last Edit: 20 February 2020, 09:31:11 by rebs »

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #663 on: 20 February 2020, 08:56:23 »
Both the Blakists and Adders will be gunning for the Empire. Exciting times to be an Imperial  :))

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8661
  • Running circles around the competition...
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #664 on: 20 February 2020, 09:31:55 »
Plus the Hansa to kick around.

Toucan

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #665 on: 21 February 2020, 17:57:36 »
https://blainepardoe.wordpress.com/2020/02/21/snords-irregulars-the-inside-story

An interesting author's perspective on the connection between the Scorpions and Snord's Irregulars. A ray of hope for a clan with their backs to the wall?


pat_hdx

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #666 on: 21 February 2020, 21:33:48 »
Both the Blakists and Adders will be gunning for the Empire. Exciting times to be an Imperial  :))

Interesting, why/how do you see future conflict with Blakist forces? Like a Shadow Division fleeing the Inner Sphere trying to muscle in?

In my Head Cannon, Caliphate Lise Burrill and King Joseph Noye push for the Imperio to be a refugee for Expatriate/Moderate Faction personnel fleeing the IS out of respect for the good work Precentor Irene Gillick did in Castille...and because their hardware and tech would be welcome.

I think there is a really good adventure hook in Wars of Reaving for an attempt to rescue survivors from the task force that Precentor Gillik lead out of Castille space that was ambushed by Bandit Caste Forces/The Jaguar.

That is not to say that both things couldn't happen. ISP3 and other source material is full of Blakist on Blakist factional score settling post-Jihad.


ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #667 on: 22 February 2020, 02:25:59 »
Plus the Hansa to kick around.

I think the Hansa is for the Adders to kick. The Imperio can't afford to go around picking fights right now

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #668 on: 22 February 2020, 02:27:02 »
https://blainepardoe.wordpress.com/2020/02/21/snords-irregulars-the-inside-story

An interesting author's perspective on the connection between the Scorpions and Snord's Irregulars. A ray of hope for a clan with their backs to the wall?

Mr Pardoe is doing good work :thumbsup:

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #669 on: 22 February 2020, 02:28:22 »
Interesting, why/how do you see future conflict with Blakist forces? Like a Shadow Division fleeing the Inner Sphere trying to muscle in?

In my Head Cannon, Caliphate Lise Burrill and King Joseph Noye push for the Imperio to be a refugee for Expatriate/Moderate Faction personnel fleeing the IS out of respect for the good work Precentor Irene Gillick did in Castille...and because their hardware and tech would be welcome.

I think there is a really good adventure hook in Wars of Reaving for an attempt to rescue survivors from the task force that Precentor Gillik lead out of Castille space that was ambushed by Bandit Caste Forces/The Jaguar.

That is not to say that both things couldn't happen. ISP3 and other source material is full of Blakist on Blakist factional score settling post-Jihad.

The Blakists' inborn religious tendencies will only cause chaos with the technocratic Society cells within the Scorpions.

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #670 on: 22 February 2020, 11:43:40 »
" My Genefather was an ELH. "

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8661
  • Running circles around the competition...
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #671 on: 22 February 2020, 12:08:41 »
" My Genefather was an ELH. "

Always goes over well at Clan gatherings and reunions.

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #672 on: 23 February 2020, 02:23:32 »
The Scorpions are fine with it. They are warrior-archaeologist-historian-bookworms. A whole bunch of Indiana Joneses

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8534
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #673 on: 23 February 2020, 03:38:28 »
I mostly agree with what people are writing above, but I think Interstellar Operations on page 30 puts it best:
Quote
The Escorpión Imperio uses Mixed Tech with an Inner Sphere technology base, but retains the ability to produce Clan weapons and equipment.

 I think the writers were very clever here. You want the Imperio to have a Mad Maxish feel, yet retain some top line Clan Tech units and Equipment. How do you justify it?
-[snip]-

so since the four mechs we know that Nueva Castile and the Umayyad's could make (according to Objectives Periphery, if Sarna is correct) are the Primitive Rifleman and Shadow hawk, and the Wasp and Stinger. Sarna has both the King Dumount Defense Facility on Castile and the Pride of Granada Industries on Granada producing the same types.

at a guess, the Rifleman is the RFL-1N and the Shadow Hawk the SHD-1R.

i find it a little odd that the fifty tonners are primitives, but that they can make non-primative wasps/stingers. but i suppose that a wasp is simple enough they could have updated those lines and not had time to figure out how to adjust the design of the other two prior to the scorpions arriving. especially if say, they got a hold of some plans for a more modern Wasp to follow, rather than figure it out on their own. Stingers can easily be made from a wasp chassis (and vice versa) as well.


do you think the Scorpions would update the -1N Rifleman and -1R Shadow hawk to be non-primitive tech right away? or just keep manufacturing the primitive models (perhaps with minor weapons refits to use the improved style weapons) while getting a full omnimech factory going?

pat_hdx

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #674 on: 23 February 2020, 21:50:20 »
EDIT: A lot of what I wrote here is just my view on how I'd like/I could reasonably see things proceeding. I could be all kinds of wrong. I make plenty of assumptions, and as was pointed out to me I make conjectures based on the the RATs which are not dependable, and do not constitute a 100% accurate reflection of the equipment actually available to a faction.

Quote
do you think the Scorpions would update the -1N Rifleman and -1R Shadow hawk to be non-primitive tech right away? or just keep manufacturing the primitive models (perhaps with minor weapons refits to use the improved style weapons) while getting a full omnimech factory going?

This is a fantastic question. I'd also mention that Objectives Periphery mentions an upgrade facility being set up by a certain Mercantile Clan to create Vulcan variants, yet Vulcans don't show up in the RATs in ISP3.

I'd say that the biggest clue to what the Scorpions should do is in that ISP3 RAT. I bet they set out to be (soley in terms of military equipment) The Soviet WWII Faction (yes, I know that is a highly overused fanboy trope!). Not the most advanced designs, but rugged and highly effective designs and doctrine. While those primitive RFL-1N and SHD-1R ARE common. They are not the THE most common Mediums and Heavies for Second Line Troops. Dice probability:

Quote
Dice Roll Probability in 2D6:
2 > 2.78 percent
3 > 5.56 percent
4 > 8.33 percent
5 >11.11 percent
6 > 13.89 percent
7 > 16.67 percent
8 > 13.89 percent
9 > 11.11 percent
10 > 8.33 percent
11 > 5.56 percent
12 > 2.78 percent

Given the above the five most common Second Line Mediums are:

5 HBK-4P Hunchback
6 TBT-5S Trebuchet
7 WVR-6R Wolverine
8 SHD-2H Shadow Hawk
9 PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk


The five most common Second Line Heavies are:

5 CRD-3R Crusader
6 QKD-4G Quickdraw
7 RFL-3N Rifleman
8 WHM-6R Warhammer
9 GHR-5J Grasshopper


So, to me, there are plenty of 3025 tech mechs out there to upgrade.

I've taken a hand at trying to upgrade the SHD-1R with "improved tech". Much like the upgrade Marian Hegemony Centurion CN9-H, with a primitive engine and a LBX-10. ...and while you can probably make something out of the RFL-1N, the SHD-1R is resistant to real improvement. The best I could do was to use Improved LRMs to allow it to stay back.

On the other hand you can make fantastic mechs out of the 3025 mechs with the "Improved Tech"

I plan to slowly flesh out some variants (starting with Wolverines) here:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68196.0

So that is all a long way to say that I think they would:

a) Stop the production at King Dumount Defense Facility and at the Pride of Granada Industries of the Primitive Rifleman and Shadow Hawk .
b) Put techs to work to upgrade the engine and structure facilities there to a 3025 base.
c) Use the assembly lines to create the equivalent of super muscular upgrade depots. Upgrading all the IS base mechs with better weapons and equipment, first from Industrial Dropships and stocks of equipment brought from Roche/ Waypoint 531, and latter from equipment being manufactured at the large Navarre Complex. 

The Navarre Complex/other new production facilities probably have priorities/development paths that look a bit like this:

1. The production of first IS, then Clan Grade Double heat sinks.
2. The production of Improved and Enhanced weapons.
3. The production of sneaky ammunition types (Precision AC rounds) and equipment that makes weapons more accurate (Clan TarComps, Artemis IV and V), as well as enhanced imaging systems/Buffered VDMI (they have access to Blakist databases), to give their local pilots the occasional edge.
4. Given the mass of Garrison caste soldiers/equipment, the Scorps legacy of combined arms (e.g. the 24th Scorpion Cuirassiers (The Khan's Own) survived and are Combine Arms specialists), and the mentioning in the source material that certain Scorp warriors feel they needed to find their own path, the production of combined arms goodies (TAG, Narc, iNarc, Semi-Guided LRMs/Mortar rounds; Arrow/Fascam/TAG Guided Artillery rounds).
Maybe even some experimental C3/C3i/Nova ECW (Wars of Reaving and a few other sources highlights that the Scorps captured a lot of Society tech).

5. The production of first IS and then Star League era Components (first standard IS engines/cockpits/armor, and then IS grade Ferro/Endo/XL Engines).
6. Modular capability (Mercury), and given how much the source material harps on it, I bet their exploration of RWR space leads to finding a Computer Core with detailed Dragoon tech specs.
7. Finally simple Clan Tech and Omnis like the Coytl and Lupus.

Why first advanced equipment like TAG and then things like IS standard engines? Because Engines and Structural components require huge capital expenditures.  A TAG unit is probably not munch harder to build than a small laser expect for some specialized microelectronics. They can make a few special micro components on Industrial Dropships, and then have them assembled on Navarre by semi-skilled workers.

No reason to build rush building mechs from scratchwhen you have a ton of IS standard mechs laying around that you can munt improved lasers and PPCs and TAG on... Meanwhile  building even ye old bad-ass IS standard Vlar 300 takes the creation of seriously expensive production line than will take time (which I think is the engine on the early Lupus Omni).

Lastly, I remember reading somewhere that once the expensive R&D is done, Pharmaceutical/Biological labs to implement advances are comparatively cheap. So I bet you see things like Society grade pharmaceuticals and Viral gene therapy development programs exploding at the local Umayid and Castillain Universities. I bet Imperio Infantry proves to be surprisingly tough, strong, and smart.  >:D
« Last Edit: 26 February 2020, 17:51:33 by pat_hdx »

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #675 on: 24 February 2020, 15:18:51 »
I think we're forgetting the Bulldog R clanspecs, where the second line tech on IS salvage.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

pat_hdx

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #676 on: 24 February 2020, 18:40:27 »
I think we're forgetting the Bulldog R clanspecs, where the second line tech on IS salvage.

TT

I'm sure that will happen, along with "C"  style variants too (as opposed to IIC Variants).  However the Developers seem to be pushing the "Early Clan Improved Equipment":

IO Pg 30:

Quote
The Escorpión Imperio, in an effort to upgrade its native manufacturing to Clan standards, has been flooded with lower-quality samples of Clan equipment (see Early Clan Improved Equipment and Early Clan Prototype Systems...

I suspect that the Developers want to have the Imperio really differentiate itself and have a particular flavour by being heavy on these weapons.

I'm guessing that the In Universe explanation will be that with some exceptions like the early Araña project, Clan weapons will usually be conserved to keep Clan base units going with only the occasional sprinkling of them on IS base units here or there.

So, instead of say upgrading a THG-11E Thug with two Clan PPCs, making something akin to an R variant, you'll see them upgraded with "Enhanced PPCs" and "Improved SRMs".  Although I'd like to see things like the occasional Improved Heavy Medium Laser be authorized here and there as a nasty surprise and as a way to enhance the "Scorpion feel".

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #677 on: 25 February 2020, 08:53:31 »
The improved equipment suits the Imperio because it's the best shot they have at cost- and quality-effective mass production. They are struggling to establish a fledgling industry from ground-up. There will be no Clan-grade equipment production for at least a decade. It's not an attempt at differentiating factions. These improved equipment have been there since Techmanual, they are what the Fed Suns would logically be producing post-Jihad in their effort to upgrade to Clan industrial standards.

Unlike the Invader Clans, who preserved a Clan industrial core one way or the other, the Imperio seems to have evacuated with very few factory ships or tooling, and without other Clans helping to jumpstart their industry, the improved equipment is the logical way to bootstrap an industrial base and a strong defensive deterrent to any Home Clan all-out invasion in the short term.

pat_hdx

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #678 on: 25 February 2020, 14:35:55 »
Quote
The improved equipment suits the Imperio because it's the best shot they have at cost- and quality-effective mass production.

I 100% agree with this statement, I just think that there have been conscious decisions along the way to nudge the Imperio in this direction.

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8534
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #679 on: 25 February 2020, 19:36:43 »
we are told over and over by the writing and creative staff that using the RAT's as a guide to what a faction actually uses or to availability is a bad idea, and that RAT's do not represent an actual cross section of a factions gear.

so using them to guide idea about what the Imperio has available to them is of questionable use.

sure they might have some of those machines.. but we know that did not have many mechs prior to the scorpions taking over, which means many of those machines in the RAT may well be things they only have a handful of unique examples of. and we know that they aren't manufacturing any of that stuff. most of the standard mechs Castille and the Ummayids had were likely destroyed when the Scorpions took over. either in the actual invasion, or shortly after during short lived insurgency efforts. if there were a lot of mechs left over after that fighting, they wouldn't have needed to develop the Reptar and Arana as stopgaps to fill out their mech forces.
so the idea that they'd only focus on refitting existing mechs is counter factual and poorly thought out, based ion a series of assumptions that fail in the light of the actual facts.

the Scorpions clearly are having to rebuild the mech forces. which means they need production, not refits. we know there are two production sites, both producing primitive riflemen, primitive shadow hawks, and some variety of Wasp and Stinger. i am currently ignoring the refit yard for the Vulcans, since it is a refit yard, implying that they were not producing Vulcans themselves merely taking ones they already had (or perhaps were importing) and altering them in some fashion.

the Reptar and Arana are mostly being built at new factory sites as best as i can tell (as the Aragon and Navarre sites for the Reptar are worlds with no other known industries listed, same as Asturias for the Arana. the only site that might be re-purposing an existing facility is the Arana production at Granada.. which is the same world that the Ummayids had their mech factory and vulcan refit yard at.)

it seems likely to me that the Scorpions would not ignore the production capabilities of these sites. i suspect they'd keep the lines going at both Granada and Castille, perhaps only taking one or two down at a time for hardware upgrades while the rest churn out mechs for the Imperio's military. (same goes for the Caliphate Airfield Alpha facility on Granada, which produced thunderbird ASF's and SRM carriers. if the site is still intact the Scorpions are probably running it night and day.)

so the question of whether they'd keep producing the primitive mechs with only minor mods (to use the improved weapons) or whether they refit those lines first to produce non-primitive machines (either updated versions like the RFL-2N and the SHD-2H, or some other machines entirely) seems like a valid one.


ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #680 on: 26 February 2020, 08:44:22 »
I 100% agree with this statement, I just think that there have been conscious decisions along the way to nudge the Imperio in this direction.

It's really appreciated that the Imperio isn't going to be a roadblock faction writeoff for the Adders. I pity the treatment the Marians and Regulans got.

we are told over and over by the writing and creative staff that using the RAT's as a guide to what a faction actually uses or to availability is a bad idea, and that RAT's do not represent an actual cross section of a factions gear......

Your attention to detail  :clap:

When Clans or other SLDF-descendant factions are in question, it's more a question of their production capacity and logistics. They can produce any design from the Star League era(especially Royal models) from the information they took with them on the Exodus. The Imperio definitely needs to build a healthy industrial base first before even having the luxury of picking which designs to produce.

Social mobility in the Imperio should be explored in future materials. They were always not as conservative as the old Coyotes or Spirits or Jaguars, so perhaps their dire new straits will push them towards flexible caste movement like what the Wolverines practiced. This is the best way for them to harness their one advantage of a massive population base (relative to the Home Clans) by letting them explore each person's potential.

pat_hdx

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #681 on: 26 February 2020, 17:45:36 »
Good evening all!

Quote
we are told over and over by the writing and creative staff that using the RAT's as a guide to what a faction actually uses or to availability is a bad idea, and that RAT's do not represent an actual cross section of a factions gear.

I agree that the RATs are not dependable. This is a very valid criticism and I’m going to edit the above to reflect that.

Quote
so using them to guide idea about what the Imperio has available to them is of questionable use

I’m going to respectfully disagree with you here. I acknowledge their imperfection, and above I even noted that there are some glaring omissions in the table, like the Vulcan, but I think it is not Unreasonable that they can serve as a decent guidepost that wiggles its eyebrows flirtively and says “something like this.” To use an obscure Finance term; I don’t think it would be unreasonable to use a Fin 48 standard to the tables, If the powers that be gave us a 100 unit strong force for the Imperio I think it would be reasonable that at least 51 of them would be those from the table.

Yes, it is an assumption. Yes, I could be wrong, I will edit the above to reflect this criticism.

Quote
so the question of whether they'd keep producing the primitive mechs with only minor mods (to use the improved weapons) or whether they refit those lines first to produce non-primitive machines (either updated versions like the RFL-2N and the SHD-2H, or some other machines entirely) seems like a valid one.

I’ve chosen to quote you here a little out of order because I think you took umbrage to something I wrote regarding the primitive models, and their subsequent variations. I 100% agree it is a valid path to take. It’s just that if I was the Head Merchant Factor or whatever, it is not the path I’d prefer because it is easier to make effective units once you get to a 3025 base. I struggled when I tried it, but maybe your Battletech-fu is superior to mine.

No disrespect intended.

Quote
most of the standard mechs Castille and the Ummayids had were likely destroyed when the Scorpions took over. either in the actual invasion, or shortly after during short lived insurgency efforts.

I don’t totally agree with these assumptions, in some cases, the Castillians/Umayids surrendered without a fight, in other the fighting was over real quick and it isn’t spelled out how the casualties went, for example WOR pg. 158 has this passage:

Quote
On Valencia, the Fourth Brigada surrendered as the first Scorpion Star stepped on the planet

Granted the same page states in other cases the local forces got rolled; but it never spells out if the losses were catastrophic, or if dudes just powered down as soon as they saw the juggernaut heading their way. As for the short-lived insurgency afterwards, we have little to no info that I can id.

Quote
if there were a lot of mechs left over after that fighting, they wouldn't have needed to develop the Reptar and Arana as stopgaps to fill out their mech forces.

Well, the Galaxies with local forces who I understand (yes, assumption) passed their trails of position are in pretty good shape as at 3086: WoR 161:

Quote
Omega Galaxy (The Caliph Brigada)
Commander: Galaxy Commander Lise Burrill

1st Imperio Guards
(CO: Galaxy Commander Lise Burrill) G 90%
 2nd Imperio Guards
(CO: Star Colonel Edgar Buck) G    80%
3rd Imperio Guards
(CO: Star Colonel Randi Scott) V   50%

As I understand, the Reptar and Araña are mostly filling out the Garrison caste units, which ( I get the impression, I believe it is not spelled out that I can tell) are a lot like Planetary Militias in the IS that don’t necessarily make it into the Orders of Battle…ISP3 pg. 107&108:

Quote
The two designs are also found in large numbers among the Imperio’s new “garrison” caste. It seems Scorpion scientists intend both ’Mechs to be a stopgap measure until new Clan-built BattleMech facilities can be completed and brought online… Both of these militarized industrial designs are being produced in modest numbers...

Quote
so the idea that they'd only focus on refitting existing mechs is counter factual and poorly thought out, based ion a series of assumptions that fail in the light of the actual facts.

a) First of all, I never said they will ONLY focus on refitting existing units. I just stated, that I think trying to focus on first getting as many things rifted as possible would be cost effective.
b) “counter factual and poorly thought out, based in a series of assumptions that fail in the light of the actual facts"…Wow…Ok, I’ve tried my best to explain my thinking and I cited my sources, I’m sorry you feel the need to use such an aggressive tone. What I have written was a good faith effort.

We are all just spit balling on a table top universe here the best we can.

Edit: Look, if somewhere above I came off as dismissive of something you wrote, it just really isn't my intent. I have a job I find demanding in a foreign country, I need a creative outlet to blow off steam, and I want to do some creative writing regarding the Imperio, I've been doing my research, and I am just excited I get to geek out in this Forum. It is a faction I find a lot to like about, which is why I am a tad enthusiastic in presenting my thoughts.

Quote
the Scorpions clearly are having to rebuild the mech forces. which means they need production, not refits. we know there are two production sites, both producing primitive riflemen, primitive shadow hawks, and some variety of Wasp and Stinger. i am currently ignoring the refit yard for the Vulcans, since it is a refit yard, implying that they were not producing Vulcans themselves merely taking ones they already had (or perhaps were importing) and altering them in some fashion.

Again, I don’t think any of this is wrong, it’s just that if it was just me, I would try to move on as quickly as possible.

Quote
it seems likely to me that the Scorpions would not ignore the production capabilities of these sites. i suspect they'd keep the lines going at both Granada and Castille, perhaps only taking one or two down at a time for hardware upgrades while the rest churn out mechs for the Imperio's military. (same goes for the Caliphate Airfield Alpha facility on Granada, which produced thunderbird ASF's and SRM carriers. if the site is still intact the Scorpions are probably running it night and day.)

Respectfully, I didn’t say they would ignore them, I said I’d try and get the engine and Structure manufacturing upgraded as quickly as a I could.

As for ArkRoyalRavager's point:
Quote
Social mobility in the Imperio should be explored in future materials.

Totally agree with this, the setting lends itself to really interesting story telling beyond just Mech on Mech action.

Y'all have a good night.
« Last Edit: 26 February 2020, 19:13:35 by pat_hdx »

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #682 on: 26 February 2020, 18:43:54 »
I found the above statement informative and structurally sound.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2907
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión II : Necrosia Boogaloo
« Reply #683 on: 27 February 2020, 08:22:12 »
I found the above statement informative and structurally sound.

TT

Yes. Very :thumbsup:

 

Register