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Author Topic: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!  (Read 100085 times)

worktroll

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #450 on: 29 December 2015, 23:18:41 »
Tradition, mainly - same as the IS, and the same as contemporary militaries.

The Falcon touman does use some labels at star/trinary level:

Com    Command Star (Cluster & Galaxy command units).
Talon   Assault Star (Heavy to Assault weight Battlemechs).
Beak   Battle Star (Medium to Heavy weight Battlemechs).
Eye   Striker Star (Light to Medium weight Battlemechs).
Eyrie   Mixed Weight Star (Sometimes classified as Beak).
Strider   Elemental Star.
Wing   Aerospace Star.
Nova   Nova (5 'Mech & 5 Elemental Points).
Mix   Non-standard Star. (Combines different Point types)

Additionally, some Stars and Trinaries were further classified by their mission type

Type   Information
Shield   Defensive Unit.
Probe   Reconnaissance Unit.
Sweep   Patrol Unit.
Hold   Pinning Unit.
Dark Wing   Solahma Unit
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #451 on: 29 December 2015, 23:23:09 »
Do you think it's too much of a stretch to assume, based on that stuff you listed, that Talon Clusters are heavy/assault-weight Clusters, akin to the Mechanized Assault Clusters of the Hell's Horses?
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worktroll

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #452 on: 29 December 2015, 23:24:08 »
Check examples in the phonebook ;)
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #453 on: 30 December 2015, 04:15:10 »
Do you think it's too much of a stretch to assume, based on that stuff you listed, that Talon Clusters are heavy/assault-weight Clusters, akin to the Mechanized Assault Clusters of the Hell's Horses?

Seems reasonable. Did a quick look at the sourcebook for average 'Mech weights:

3rd Talon - 73 tons
9th Talon - 70 tons
1st Strikers - 45 tons
2nd Jaegers - 39 tons

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #454 on: 30 December 2015, 04:46:38 »
Even if it's not canon, has anyone ever come up with a fanon explanation for the various Cluster types? The Falcons seem like they have enough dedicated fans that somebody would have attempted this by now.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #455 on: 30 December 2015, 06:04:15 »
I'm not sure the Falcon units are that regimented. Looking at the Jade Falcon Sourcebook for instance, the 3rd and 9th Talons are rather heavily weighted, but on the next page, the 12th Falcon Regulars shares the same composition as the 3rd Talon.

The 305th Asssault Cluster has 7 out of 9 Stars being Light/Medium Stars, while the 4th Talon has the same ratio, with 7 out of 9 Stars being the Light/Medium Eye Stars, with the remainder being medium/heavy Stars.

So the Cluster names don't seem to have any real connection to their unit type.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #456 on: 30 December 2015, 07:02:31 »
The Falcon scoffs at your puny concept of standards for unit naming!
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #457 on: 10 January 2016, 19:43:05 »
This is an EXTREMELY dangerous design- it just needs to be used properly. This isn't a do-everything design the way some designs are, it isn't able to engage at any range with tools for every job the way a Mad Cat can. But in its roles, there's genuinely few designs that can compare to it- or survive long against one.
O0
Like a lot of Falcon designs, playing smash mouth-style won't get you far with this one at range.  This one requires some maneuvering finesse.  Like a Hellbringer, the Jade Hawk is very deadly when used properly.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #458 on: 13 January 2016, 20:27:54 »
MALVINA GETS RESULTS


worktroll

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #459 on: 13 January 2016, 21:06:55 »
MALVINA GETS RESULTS



"I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more!"
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #460 on: 16 January 2016, 11:10:28 »
Jesus! I didn't realise that Malvina and friends managed to grab THAT much space.  The thing is what did this huge land grab cost the Falcons? They must have thrashed the guts out of their Tourman grabbing all this and really it was only possible due to the fact that the Lyran's basically got inadvertently tag teamed by the Wolves and Falcon/Horses at roughly the same time and had no real way to respond to the threats from so many axis of advance. 

Also i'd probably guess that the Falcons having the largest Warship fleet in the Inner Sphere save the Ravens mothballed ships also counted for a lot.  Warship guns speak very loudly indeed, especially when 'ol Mad Mal is MORE than willing to use them.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #461 on: 24 January 2016, 19:46:39 »
I am looking to build a fully trinary of Falcons Delta Galaxy 4th Falcon Dragoons. Looking at this for Alpha Strike games. trying very hard to keep it pure to designs made by the falcons. I currently have 2 Turkina, 2 Shrike, 2 Jade Hawk, 2 Flamberge, 2 Eryrie, quite a few invasion mechs, a pair of Carnivores, around 60 elementals several bases of dark age infantry( not sure exactly which ones). Buying more models is not a problem. What would you field to be competitive but still fluffy?

worktroll

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #462 on: 24 January 2016, 20:00:27 »
First, I'd relax and allow "Clan general" designs to the mix. You lose on some great options that way, and the Falcons do trade with lesser clans ( ;) ).

Second, a good bit of the good newer designs aren't Omnis. It makes sense to put the Omnis into novas with as much BA as they can carry, and keep the non-Omnis in support stars. BA-wise the Falcons have all the good stuff - at that time you're accessing the Elemental (Fire), Salamander (standard & so-called anti-infantry), Corona, Gnome, the lovely Ironhold, Afreet, and the "Rache" Clan BA with jump boosters! If you can't put together some fun out of that, I'll be worried :)

For "infantry", you'll only really see Clan foot troops in solahma units. But they can be fun too, so having a Binary of "disposable" solahma with weird and wonderful*(ly crappy) equipment rocks too. Ever wanted to use that UrbanMech IIC mini? Here's your chance! Some double-Arrow IV loving - Hueys! And so on.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

RaiderRed

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #463 on: 24 January 2016, 20:15:15 »
Yeah. Crossing from the other side of the Inner Sphere. Finally decided to try the Clan way of life. Most of the mechs listed are either new purchase on somewhere between IWM and me.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #464 on: 24 January 2016, 20:18:33 »
FWIW, I'm working on a full Trinary of 'Mechs, have already completed a Trinary of BA, and have a Binary of second-line designs to back'em up, all from Delta Galaxy. Plus a solahma binary for Omega, for fun.

Just remember - we Falcon Harder!  [tickedoff]  O0
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

RaiderRed

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #465 on: 24 January 2016, 20:31:37 »
I was playing with a star then a binary of the Flamberge, Jade Hawk  and gyrfalcon. Drove my opponents nuts with the jumping everywhere and still hitting hard enough to give them a bad day.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #466 on: 25 January 2016, 00:49:18 »
Don't forget a couple of Eyries in there- nothing more fun than pummeling someone with a couple of Gyrfalcons and Shrikes from range, then sending in the Jade Hawks and Eyries to finish the job!

Also, as Worktroll said, second-line stuff isn't a bad idea. Among Falcon-built options are favorites like the Locust IIC, Battlemaster C, Hellhound, Kraken, Thunderbolt IIC, Jupiter, Spirit... no shortage of very good Falcon second-liners.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #467 on: 25 January 2016, 16:53:18 »
You can't go wrong with more Flamberges.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #468 on: 26 January 2016, 11:22:24 »
In a mark of deep personal shame, I've never owned a Night Gyr mini, but finally got one yesterday.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #469 on: 26 January 2016, 13:02:45 »
The Night Gyr is a MONSTER of a mech, the Prime is 150% pure curbstomp.  But IIRC the model for it was a bit rubbish.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #470 on: 26 January 2016, 13:26:30 »
Oh, I definitely plan to repose the mini. Three are ones on CSO that I think I can get close to structurally, if not paint-wise.

Has anyone tried teaming it up with a Flamberge yet? Seems like they might work well together. Especially in Alpha Strike, where a Flamberge B can slow down a target with plasma, making it easy prey for a Night Gyr's hard knockdown.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #471 on: 08 February 2016, 01:45:23 »
Alright, I've found at least some partial answers to my question about Cluster types earlier. Three of the Cluster types are described briefly in the various Galaxy write-ups in FM: 3145.

Talon Clusters are "heavy."
Jaegers are "fast-moving."
Hussars are "lightweight."

That still leaves Dragoons, Velites and Striker Clusters. Anyone have any theories as to what those might be?
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #472 on: 08 February 2016, 02:48:37 »
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #473 on: 08 February 2016, 10:54:18 »
Alright, I've found at least some partial answers to my question about Cluster types earlier. Three of the Cluster types are described briefly in the various Galaxy write-ups in FM: 3145.

Talon Clusters are "heavy."
Jaegers are "fast-moving."
Hussars are "lightweight."

That still leaves Dragoons, Velites and Striker Clusters. Anyone have any theories as to what those might be?

My company has some proprietary software for statistical analysis.  I used it to setup an excel sheet that could generate a random cluster via RATs from whatever era.  I used the Jade Falcon Sourcebook lists as a baseline to determine the frequency of weight class.  For example, the RATs will tell you the frequency of each mech in each weight class, but there is no guidance on how many of each weight class to use.  That’s where the statistics came in. 

For those interested I assigned a number to each weight class (1 = light, 2 = medium etc.).  This allowed me to determine mean and standard deviation for the cluster in quetion.  I then setup a normal distribution.  This determines which weight class to use for each mech.  It’s a pretty simple matter after that for excel to “roll” 2d6 to determine the mech in each weight class.  Note, that I used a single cluster of each type as an example and in some cases you could find another cluster of said type that deviates from the example I used.  For instance, I think some of the battle clusters look more like talons, and some more like strikers.  I looked them over and used what appeared to me to be the most representative example.

I was astonished at how light the Falcons were.  It also sheds light on some of the unit types.  The numbers below were generated with the Jade Falcon 3073 RAT.  Also, the numbers below may deviate depending on the random example that comes up, but are remarkably consistent.  It’s been a while since I used it, but if I remember correctly, average mech mass (the average mass of all the mechs randomly rolled up), only deviates by about 5 tons either way.

Finally, the numbers above aren't perfect since my "database" of non-omnimech stats, was not complete.  So if a Kintaro was rolled up, it would have a mass and BV of 0.  These gaps could move the averages a few tons either way, but looking things over does not have a significant impact.  Units that are inherently frontline (i.e. all omnimechs) like the Keshik, have no such gaps.

Keshik – command unit, average mech mass is around 61 tons, average fighter mass is around 50 tons

Talon Clusters are indeed heavy/assault, average mech mass around 69 tons, average fighter mass is around 29.5 tons

Jaegers – fairly light, similar to strikers, average mech mass around 40 tons, average fighter mass is around 41.6 tons

Assault Cluster - fairly light, similar to strikers, average mech mass around 40 tons, average fighter mass is around 27.5 tons

Battle Cluster – Mid-weight, average mech mass around 48 tons, average fighter mass is around 33 tons

Regulars - Mid-weight, average mech mass around 52 tons, average fighter mass is around 19.5 tons

Strikers – fast, lightweight, think horse archers, average mech mass around 45 tons, average fighter mass is around 31 tons

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #474 on: 09 February 2016, 20:16:27 »
MALVINA GETS RESULTS



This is a good picture.

I feel like this is a good time to chime in with the reminder that four or five more of those blue ones turn green in the next year or two.  Particularly the one labeled "Arc-Royal". O0
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #475 on: 09 February 2016, 20:50:28 »
I found something interesting in FM: Crusader Clans: going by the writeup of JF Sigma Galaxy, it looks like Dragoon Clusters are Clusters built around a core of veteran warriors, and then bulked out to to Cluster size with green warriors and abtakha. So Dragoon Clusters are organized around the personnel end of things, rather than the equipment end of things, apparently.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #476 on: 09 February 2016, 21:39:55 »
I found something interesting in FM: Crusader Clans: going by the writeup of JF Sigma Galaxy, it looks like Dragoon Clusters are Clusters built around a core of veteran warriors, and then bulked out to to Cluster size with green warriors and abtakha. So Dragoon Clusters are organized around the personnel end of things, rather than the equipment end of things, apparently.

Alexander Hazen, before his untimely demise, had been doing this with Zeta Galaxy (I remember seeing somewhere.  Not sure if it's accurate or something I accidentally just invented) during the Desant.  I like the idea.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #477 on: 10 February 2016, 00:03:15 »
Besides, it hardly matters what actual mass a Falcon force is; all their 'Mechs are heavies at heart.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #478 on: 10 February 2016, 00:33:45 »
Hmm...according to the Fed Com Civil War sourcebook, Swoop Clusters are Clusters composed almost entirely of freebirths.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #479 on: 10 February 2016, 02:48:45 »
Besides, it hardly matters what actual mass a Falcon force is; all their 'Mechs are heavies at heart.

And when the Falcon forces are shot out of the sky and ground into the dirt, Falcon Mechwarriors will be heavy of heart.