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Author Topic: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!  (Read 95621 times)

SeeM

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #210 on: 15 June 2015, 15:37:45 »
Thank you for answering. I'm making a little Rashalgue campaing and hoped to include some Falcon episode. Maybe another time...
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #211 on: 15 June 2015, 16:13:50 »
Hey, it's your game. There's plenty of ways the Falcons could have been in the FRR without it making into the history books. Maybe they sent a smaller force just to screw with the Wolves, but then the Wolves weren't actually there yet, so they got in a scrap with the FRR while they were waiting. Either the PCs wipe them out or the Wolves do when they show up later, so no matter what it never makes it into the records. Or, maybe it's one ambitious Falcon acting in defiance of his or her superiors, so the incursion was never recorded.

It's the first wave of the Clan invasion! Long on fighting, short on record-keeping. You could make just about anything work without causing any ripples further down the line.

Maelwys

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #212 on: 15 June 2015, 16:57:56 »
So there's a few interesting comments in A Rending of Falcons, that may be a bit more sinister after Wars of Reaving came out.

Several times during the novel there are comments about how the Jade Falcon Scientists are really the ones running the Clan. Presumably some of it might be tongue in cheek due to the Scientists being the ones that do the pairings for Bloodlines and what not, not to mention developing new technologies (and the Warriors do wind up going kind of nuts in the novel and killing scientists).

But it seems like a really odd thing to joke about. If you're going to joke about them running the Clan because they control various aspects of the Clan, like breeding protocols and what not, then shouldn't you be joking about that with regard to all Clans? (Admittedly, these comments were directed towards the Falcons, so its not like they had a reason to put down the Wolves or Ravens). So is it simply a joke, or could there be something more sinister there, especially with regards to the Society?

False Son

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #213 on: 16 June 2015, 12:16:09 »
It is sort of true from the perspective that the Scientists run the breeding program.  The Warrior Caste, in particular the Trueborns that underpin it, is perpetuated the labcoats.

On the other hand, they have no choice.  The Warriors have outsourced the messy work of breeding to the labcoats.  Saying the Scientists are in charge is like saying the Helots were in charge in ancient Sparta.


I would say it is typical Falcon paranoia.  They said the same thing about the Merchant Caste.  And yet, it wasn't the Merchants that called for the culling of the Scientist Caste.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #214 on: 16 June 2015, 14:20:49 »
Similar things were said about scientists during the Smoke Jaguar annihilation.  Primarily because they play a critical role in clan society, but traditionally have little supervision.  They can be viewed as the power-behind-the-throne. 

As for the DA Falcon scientists, I would say their caste was put in its place as a result of Etienne’s uprising.  But remember the DA novels were all written prior to WoR so there may be a couple references that are out of place.

Maelwys

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #215 on: 17 June 2015, 00:59:06 »
I just found it interesting that it was outsiders saying it about the Jade Falcons, not the Falcons themselves. It was also too much to pass up considering the issues they had with the Society. Maybe in the intervening years the Falcon warriors slipped.

Or of course it could just be a joke and the author didn't know about the Society when it was written. :)

But I did give me a chuckle :)

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #216 on: 17 June 2015, 13:50:07 »
Wait, was this said by the Lyran diplomate, his bodyguard or the Sea Fox warrior?  Depending on who said it, they may have a misunderstanding of how things work in the Falcons.
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Maelwys

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #217 on: 17 June 2015, 14:48:06 »
The Sea Fox. She says

Quote
‘She actively hates the Jesses. Almost as much as she despises the coterie of high-ranked scientists and technicians who really run Sudeten and the touman—and by extension, Clan Jade Falcon.’’

To Rorion’s look of outright disbelief she said, ‘‘You don’t think warriors would stoop to such mundane tasks as administering an army, or an empire, do you? But leave it. Julia Buhalin is intelligent and formidable. And she hates readily and well. You would do well to be wary of her, Merchant Prince.’’

Which interestingly might answer the question about when a Clan Warrior learns Admin, atleast for the Jade Falcons :)

Later on..this is from Von Texeira (Lyran Merchant/LIC member)

Quote
Metallic, masculine. It struck von Texeira’s ears as dispassionate, yet ringing with that certain superciliousness he had come to associate with senior members of Sudeten’s scientist caste, who Senna said did the real work of running the world—and the Clan.

And then later on, from the Falcon Loremaster (who mind you is probably as insane as Malvina, just in a different way.

Quote
It was not only members of the ‘‘moderate’’ Jess faction that Julia Buhalin sent security teams, augmented by trusted Slip warriors, to arrest. She also availed herself of the opportunity to troll in certain ranking scientists and technicians who, in her opinion, exercised altogether too much power over Clan affairs.

And then later on, in a sort of neutral passage...

Quote
ulia Buhalin was constitutionally incapable of truly comprehending Malvina Hazen’s most recent proclamations. Otherwise she would never have acceded to the exalted rank of loremaster. It did not occur to her that, by arresting the very scientists and technicians who actually ran Clan Jade Falcon, she might be removing the cooling rods that regulated a potentially disastrous reaction.

So admittedly, it sounds like its said that way because the Scientists and Laborers do everything with regards to making Jade Falcon work except for fighting, and thus are "in-charge," but I couldn't help think of the Society each time I read one of those passages (and any others I might have misesd).

Think of the storyline it could be. A Society cell survived, and instead of fighting to take over, they just sort of...suborned the Clan over time. Ah well. :)

Archangel

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #218 on: 17 June 2015, 15:12:15 »
Saying the Scientist caste runs the Falcons may have simply been a scornful statement without any actual evidence like saying that the bureaucrats and accountants (aka bean-counters) run the militaries or corporations where cutting costs is more important than actually getting the job done.
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Maelwys

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #219 on: 17 June 2015, 17:29:59 »
I'd probably agree. But I did find it interesting that the Loremaster thought it was enough of a problem that she felt the need to arrest/kill members of the Scientist and Laborer Caste.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #220 on: 18 June 2015, 15:36:48 »
That would a funny turn of events.  The Falcons being run by a Scientist Caste largely descended from Isorla.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #221 on: 19 June 2015, 00:21:08 »
Sorry, still looking for background for my mini units ... it's a curse of mine ;)

So I'm pretty happy with either a provisional or solhama cluster hosting my "Isorla Trinary" - a collection of captured hardware, second-line stuff, and some vehicles, manned with aging non-Bloodnames and bondsmen who got adopted. It's sort of a "Dirty Dozen" approach - good but non-standard equipment, second-rate but still aggressive warriors. The Galaxy Commander saying "Yes, we will use you. We will burn you up. But you will burn fiercely, and you will bring honor to the Clan!"

Omega (and Mu) get trashed during the Jihad. Alas, there's no info I can find on who they get used up against. By referring to their destruction during the Jihad, it's an implication that they were moved from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere, otherwise they might have been said to be trashed during the Wars of Reaving, and also probably not get re-created in the Inner Sphere in the Dark Age.  (All IMHO, of course).

I know the Falcons fought Wolves, Hellions, and Lyrans during the Jihad period. Did they ever fight the Blakists? They appear to have had an uneasy truce-of-convenience with the Ghost Bears - correct?

I'm leaning towards them being moved from the Homeworlds following the Hellion Incursion to reinforce the Clan in the Inner Sphere. That then makes the Wolves the likely opponents who trashed them, hopefully with them giving as good as they got.

Makes sense? Anyone got any additional information, or opinions?

Thanks in advance,

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Archangel

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #222 on: 19 June 2015, 03:26:20 »
I know the Falcons fought Wolves, Hellions, and Lyrans during the Jihad period. Did they ever fight the Blakists?

Of course.  They helped liberated Coventry as well as assigning troops to the Coalition forces that invaded the Protectorate.

Quote
They appear to have had an uneasy truce-of-convenience with the Ghost Bears - correct?

Yes and no.  Distance as much as mutual respect effectively prevented any real clashes between the two Clans. Kael Pershaw and his staff caught a ride with the Ghost Bears to the Inner Sphere.  There is also the minor issue about them being one of the most powerful Clans in the Inner Sphere, if not the most powerful and the Falcons having little reason to want to get the Bear angry at them.  Besides they had no reason to attack a Clan that is keeping the Wolves honest.

Quote
I'm leaning towards them being moved from the Homeworlds following the Hellion Incursion to reinforce the Clan in the Inner Sphere. That then makes the Wolves the likely opponents who trashed them, hopefully with them giving as good as they got.

Well according to FM:Updates, both Omega and Mu were in the Inner Sphere before the Jihad or WoR broke out.  As of 3067, only Sigma and Zeta Galaxies remained in the Clan Homeworlds.

Per the 3072 Clan OZ map in Jihad Secrets (p31), Mu Galaxy's 1st Falcon Velites and 5th Falcon Regulars' respective homeworlds (Domain and La Grave respectively) were seized by Clan Wolf while Omega Galaxy's 7th PGC's homeworld (Machida) was recaptured by the Lyrans while the 11th PGC's homeworld (Bone Norman) was temporarily captured by the Ice Hellions (per JS, p28) by elements of Beta and/or Zeta Galaxies.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #223 on: 11 July 2015, 19:57:59 »
I had a quick question for the Falconers. I'm not overly familiar with the background plot for the BT universe, but I do remember an aspect of Clan Jade Falcon emphasized in the old Mechwarrior 2 computer game. In that game, they had a clear mystical bent, referencing prophecies and visions that saw into the future and confirmed the Falcon's Crusader mission to conquer Terra and reunite the Star League. Does this warrior-mysticism bleed through into the fiction or the Battletech background at all?

The other question is about the conservative nature of the Clan. By 3080, it seems that they are the last major Clan faction that still abides by the Crusader mentality (the Great Refusal and the Wars of Reaving having made both Crusader and Warden camps largely irrelevant). Even the Malvina Hazen period doesn't see the Falcons subscribing to Aggressor or Bastion politics, precisely speaking. After decades, it seems that CJF is the only old-style clan left in existence (with old style Trueblood warrior dominating the clan culture, honour bound and traditional society). So, is this true? Has Clan Jade Falcon remained the most "the same" of all the Clans?

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #224 on: 11 July 2015, 22:54:51 »
Does this warrior-mysticism bleed through into the fiction or the Battletech background at all?

The only prophecy that the Falcons concern themselves with is that Nicholas Kerensky prophesized that the Clans would return to the Inner Sphere and re-establish the Star League.

Quote
The other question is about the conservative nature of the Clan. By 3080, it seems that they are the last major Clan faction that still abides by the Crusader mentality (the Great Refusal and the Wars of Reaving having made both Crusader and Warden camps largely irrelevant). Even the Malvina Hazen period doesn't see the Falcons subscribing to Aggressor or Bastion politics, precisely speaking. After decades, it seems that CJF is the only old-style clan left in existence (with old style Trueblood warrior dominating the clan culture, honour bound and traditional society). So, is this true? Has Clan Jade Falcon remained the most "the same" of all the Clans?

Aggressor/Bastion politics is limited to the Homeworld Clans.  They have fought the hardest to remain true to their old traditions but since the Blackout, Malvina's battlefield success (not to mention the destruction of most oppostion) has led much of the Clan to support her extremist stance with traditionalists being sidelined for the most part.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #225 on: 12 July 2015, 00:20:47 »
The only prophecy that the Falcons concern themselves with is that Nicholas Kerensky prophesized that the Clans would return to the Inner Sphere and re-establish the Star League.

Aggressor/Bastion politics is limited to the Homeworld Clans.  They have fought the hardest to remain true to their old traditions but since the Blackout, Malvina's battlefield success (not to mention the destruction of most oppostion) has led much of the Clan to support her extremist stance with traditionalists being sidelined for the most part.

That's interesting, so there was never any development of things like The Remembrance, which was a pseudo-religious text about the Clan's origin story, or the fulfillment of the prophesies?

I always thought the pseudo-religious Easter eggs running in the background of the Battletech universe (and in the Clans in particular) were interesting. For example, there are lots of Arabic terms that have a religious basis: jihad, hegira (the Clan right for peaceful withdrawal) and many others.
« Last Edit: 12 July 2015, 00:25:51 by Achtung Minen! »

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #226 on: 12 July 2015, 11:44:17 »
I'd say the Remembrance was FAR from undeveloped.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #227 on: 12 July 2015, 12:50:15 »
In that game, they had a clear mystical bent, referencing prophecies and visions that saw into the future and confirmed the Falcon's Crusader mission to conquer Terra and reunite the Star League. Does this warrior-mysticism bleed through into the fiction or the Battletech background at all?

I think this is less about visions and prophecies and more about reverence and absolute belief for what the Kerenskys had vowed in the past.

It would be similar to saying Churchill 'prophesied' the defence of Britain or MacArthur had a 'vision' of returning to the Philippines.

So, not so much mysticism but an honour-bound, fanatical belief.


Has Clan Jade Falcon remained the most "the same" of all the Clans?

Yes.
« Last Edit: 12 July 2015, 12:55:17 by Bren »

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #228 on: 12 July 2015, 13:14:13 »
They are getting more and more excepting of freebirths though.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #229 on: 12 July 2015, 18:44:48 »
I think it's fair to say that the Falcons stayed truest to the original Crusader belief set. I see Malvina's adaptation of the Mongol philosophy to be the ultimate expression of all the frustration that this approach produced. "So you will not play by our rules after decades of beatings and punishments!! Well then, reap the hurricane!!!"
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #230 on: 14 July 2015, 09:56:05 »
They are getting more and more excepting of freebirths though.

I would think that after the Pryde debacle (Aidan and Diana both) the Falcons would have soften a bit toward freebirths.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #231 on: 14 July 2015, 11:13:16 »
I think it's fair to say that the Falcons stayed truest to the original Crusader belief set. I see Malvina's adaptation of the Mongol philosophy to be the ultimate expression of all the frustration that this approach produced. "So you will not play by our rules after decades of beatings and punishments!! Well then, reap the hurricane!!!"

Close it down, we have the single best summation of Clan Jade Falcon we're ever going to get here. Thanks for visiting, folks!
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #232 on: 14 July 2015, 19:00:14 »
Anyone who's had a girl-child go through the Terrible Twos knows this as truth ;)

(Boys? They're Smoke Jaguars.)
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #233 on: 14 July 2015, 19:26:50 »
Close it down, we have the single best summation of Clan Jade Falcon we're ever going to get here. Thanks for visiting, folks!

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #234 on: 14 July 2015, 19:32:46 »
If I had the artistic talent, I'd be colouring those (left to right)
Wolf
Nova Cat
(back) Smoke Jaguar
Snow Raven
(front) Ghost Bear
Jade Falcon
(bottom) Blood Spirit ..
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #235 on: 14 July 2015, 21:17:44 »
If I had the artistic talent, I'd be colouring those (left to right)
Wolf
Nova Cat
(back) Smoke Jaguar
Snow Raven
(front) Ghost Bear
Jade Falcon
(bottom) Blood Spirit ..

You did a good job with this. I hate that the Ravens are Daffy, but you did a really good job.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #236 on: 15 July 2015, 16:59:09 »
I would think that after the Pryde debacle (Aidan and Diana both) the Falcons would have soften a bit toward freebirths.

Depends on how they rationalize it and how they tell the story. I could well imagine this to lead to a radicalization of the trueborns under the right circumstances. And the Falcons seem to be just the kind of people for a radicalization... I love to hate them, even more so in the DA.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #237 on: 15 July 2015, 18:40:50 »
Your hate warms us O0 Sharpen your claws. We wait your challenge.

In the meantime, how about a coffee? ;)
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* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
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* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #238 on: 16 July 2015, 15:09:48 »
bide bide wait a minute i see what you di di di, implied  there!
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #239 on: 16 July 2015, 16:32:21 »
You did a good job with this. I hate that the Ravens are Daffy, but you did a really good job.

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