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Author Topic: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!  (Read 104507 times)

Rtifs

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #420 on: 12 November 2015, 12:22:22 »
Also, don’t forget that a lot of characters were created before certain things like their associated phenotype was determined. 

Ascension

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #421 on: 13 November 2015, 03:17:33 »
Having just had the occasion to do an an inventory of my old WizKids MWDA/AoD 'Mechs, I've discovered I may be a Dark Ages CJF player by default: I have more Hels/Loki Mk. IIs than any sane man knows what to do with (and more than half of them are already Falcons).

Now if I only knew what IS faction might deploy Company-sized formations of Ghosts...

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #422 on: 13 November 2015, 10:44:13 »

Now if I only knew what IS faction might deploy Company-sized formations of Ghosts...


Paint it up as the recon element of one of the Terran Supremacy's most elite regiments, and call them the Ghosts of the Black Watch. :)
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RaiderRed

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #423 on: 19 November 2015, 19:26:39 »
I have been looking through all the material I have access to and can not find any information on how current era Falcons treat tureborns who are vehicle crews. Can they even compete for a blood name should one become available?

Rtifs

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #424 on: 20 November 2015, 09:37:02 »
Like all trueborn warriors, they would be eligible.  But would never be nominated.  In the Falcons, it’s the second-stringers that get relegated to vehicles and conventional infantry.  So they would have to go through the grand melee. 

Also, the elephant in the room is how an augmented bloodname contest would go when a crewed vehicle is in play.  i.e. does the tanker get to bring his crew into the contest or not.  If he gets to bring them, then the bloodname would not be his accomplishment alone.  Not very clanlike.  If he doesn’t get to bring them, he is at such a disadvantage that there’s little chance of victory.  I personally suspect that the latter is true.  If you want a bloodname in the Jade Falcons, you just have to be the best, so you won’t be in a tank to begin with.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #425 on: 22 November 2015, 18:30:54 »
I imagine the vehicle duel to be conducted in vehicles that are one man operated. 


Bren

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #426 on: 22 November 2015, 20:17:48 »
Got curious and took a look through a couple of my books. My Dark Age material is still a bit light, but what single-crew vehicles do you think the Falcons have reasonable numbers of for Trial purposes?

(how cool would helicopter duels be ... helicopter Grand Melee ...)
21 Donar (EDIT: two crew as per text)
25 Balac (looks like two)
25 Gossamer (looks like one)
25 Hawk Moth II (looks like one)
30 Skadi (looks like one, could be two)

(ground vehicles)
20 Asshur (looks like one crew)
20 Nacon (sounds like one from text)
30 Kite (sounds like one from text)
35 Skanda (looks like one)
« Last Edit: 23 November 2015, 09:43:33 by Bren »

wantec

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #427 on: 23 November 2015, 08:55:41 »
In Field Manual: Warden Clans, Clan Ghost Bear's Sigma Galaxy Commander is a Galaxy Commander Aleksandr, originally trained as a MechWarrior, but badly injured in his Trial of Position before earning a single kill. After a year of recovery, he retrained in vehicle combat and tested out with two kills. At the time, some believed he could win a Jorgensson bloodname if his one-man controls could be devised for his captured Athena combat vehicle.

By the time of Field Manual: Updates the Sigma Galaxy Commander is Aleksandr Jorgensson, although it doesn't describe how he accomplished it and doesn't specifically tie the two together, it sure looks like they found a way for one-man controls to work.
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Rtifs

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #428 on: 23 November 2015, 11:45:58 »
In game terms I would represent a one man crew by applying a permanent driver and commander critical hit to the vehicle at the beginning of the battle.  Obviously, the warrior would choose unaugmented combat against mechwarriors and pilots as much as possible. 

RaiderRed

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #429 on: 23 November 2015, 21:59:29 »
I was thinking along the same lines for a warrior. My Dark Age knowledge is limited for the Clans so far. My original thoughts were for the warrior in question to command a Carnivore or Sekhmet though. The changes brought on by the Republic has my brain fragged trying to figure all this out.

Trajan Helmer

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #430 on: 24 November 2015, 08:10:15 »
I imagine the vehicle duel to be conducted in vehicles that are one man operated. 

I've always loved the Shamash;D
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #431 on: 27 November 2015, 01:12:38 »
What gaps do the Falcons have in their touman in 3145-3150, in terms of materiel?

Ascension

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #432 on: 01 December 2015, 18:58:56 »
I'm toying with a fanfic... could anyone point me toward the most boring place a Jade Falcon Provisional Garrison Cluster could be posted in the spring or early summer of 3050, after REVIVAL had begun but before the ilKhan allowed PGCs to be used to garrison IS worlds? Were any CJF PGCs present in the Deep Periphery at that point (and thus potentially posted to an uninhabited rock just serving as a waystation), or would they have all been back in the Homeworlds somewhere?

JadedFalcon

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #433 on: 02 December 2015, 23:58:42 »
I'm toying with a fanfic... could anyone point me toward the most boring place a Jade Falcon Provisional Garrison Cluster could be posted in the spring or early summer of 3050, after REVIVAL had begun but before the ilKhan allowed PGCs to be used to garrison IS worlds? Were any CJF PGCs present in the Deep Periphery at that point (and thus potentially posted to an uninhabited rock just serving as a waystation), or would they have all been back in the Homeworlds somewhere?

Take a look at Lambda Galaxy. They provided security for CJF baggage trains through the Periphery, and it's possible they were operating in that capacity during Revival. The Clans were occupying deep Periphery planets and kingdoms as they moved towards the IS. The Jade Falcon Sourcebook and Field Manual: Crusader Clans might help a little. The Explorer Corps book might also outline worlds in that region with an emphasis on the 3050s.

Bren

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #434 on: 11 December 2015, 13:30:18 »
Do we know where the Falcons manufacture the Jade Hawk?

DarkSpade

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #435 on: 11 December 2015, 15:06:26 »
Do we know where the Falcons manufacture the Jade Hawk?

Thought I read somewhere that they don't anymore since the sea foxes got a hold of the plans.
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wantec

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #436 on: 11 December 2015, 15:32:02 »
Thought I read somewhere that they don't anymore since the sea foxes got a hold of the plans.
There's two versions, the IS/mixed-tech ones (JHK-03, -04) that are made by DOA on Galatea. The full Clan versions, the Jade Hawk, 2, & 3, are the ones made by the Falcons and I don't know of any specific factory location.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #437 on: 11 December 2015, 17:34:54 »
There's two versions, the IS/mixed-tech ones (JHK-03, -04) that are made by DOA on Galatea. The full Clan versions, the Jade Hawk, 2, & 3, are the ones made by the Falcons and I don't know of any specific factory location.

Given that the Jade Hawk was available to the Falcons before the desant, I'd assume it's manufactured on Sudeten or Erewhon.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #438 on: 11 December 2015, 17:55:00 »
Given that the Jade Hawk was available to the Falcons before the desant ...

Desant was 3134, date I have for the Jade Hawk is 3136.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #439 on: 11 December 2015, 20:12:11 »
Desant was 3134, date I have for the Jade Hawk is 3136.

Blargh. I meant the full-scale invasion of the LC, which is c3140
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Bren

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #440 on: 20 December 2015, 13:32:13 »
Still stuck on the Jade Hawk thing ...

Looking at the RAT from ER:3145, the Jade Hawk is tied with the Grand Summoner for the most 'common' heavy mech.

In FM:3145, the Jade Hawk is absent from Keshiks, barely present in front-line units and are low on the second-line table.

All of the other 'revitalization' mechs (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike) are very common in both books. Any thoughts on why the Jade Hawk was downgraded on the newer RATs so much?

DarkSpade

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #441 on: 20 December 2015, 14:12:15 »
In MW:DA the Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, and the Shrike were all exclusive sculpts to the Falcons(until the Solaris 7 expansion gave us a merc Shrike).  The Jade Hawk was only ever used by unique mercs/gunslingers and never seen in Falcon colors.  There either is or was supposed to be(I forget which) a bit of fiction somewhere mentioning the Sea Foxes getting a hold of the plans for the Jade Hawk.  The falcon ditched the design shortly afterward.  Kind of like a hipster dropping their favorite band after hearing it the radio.

It's possible this never became canon. I knew a friend of a friend that worked for wizkids so from time to time I'd get to hear bits of background stories and unreleased stuff.  Some got published some didn't.  Been so long I can't keep which is which straight anymore.  This explanation was the intent at the beginning though.
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GreekFire

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #442 on: 20 December 2015, 16:03:38 »
It's possible this never became canon. I knew a friend of a friend that worked for wizkids so from time to time I'd get to hear bits of background stories and unreleased stuff.  Some got published some didn't.  Been so long I can't keep which is which straight anymore.  This explanation was the intent at the beginning though.

Naw, you pretty much got it. Wizkids and TRO3145:Clans have both pretty much said what you wrote.

All of the other 'revitalization' mechs (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike) are very common in both books. Any thoughts on why the Jade Hawk was downgraded on the newer RATs so much?

It could simply boil down to OOU reasons. The Era Report came out before any of the 3145 TROs except for Mercs, and was possibly published before certain availability ratings, factional usage, or even 'Mechs were fully developed. Some supposedly common designs are missing from those RATs, while others find themselves used only by factions that would import/salvage them.

To be completely frank, I'd ignore the Era Report RATs as a canon source for what is common/what isn't if I were you.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #443 on: 21 December 2015, 07:13:19 »
Thing is the Jade hawk's a bit of a turkey, sure it looks amazing but weapons wise...its useless outside all but the shortest ranges.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #444 on: 23 December 2015, 15:12:03 »
So, question. What would you guys consider the most COMMON Jade Falcon Battle Armor in the 3145 era?

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #445 on: 23 December 2015, 15:21:19 »
I would say standard Elementals still, perhaps the type with flame-resistant armour being the most common version.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #446 on: 23 December 2015, 16:05:23 »
Not sure if the Fire one has managed to gain supremacy yet, but yeah definitely Elemental.
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Maelwys

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #447 on: 23 December 2015, 16:38:08 »
I dunno. The Clan Objectives book doesn't list the standard Elemental in production for the Jade Falcons, only the Elemental (Fire). Its certainly possible by 3145 the (Fire) version of it has taken over.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #448 on: 25 December 2015, 20:48:34 »
Thing is the Jade hawk's a bit of a turkey, sure it looks amazing but weapons wise...its useless outside all but the shortest ranges.

The same could be said of the Hunchback a century or two earlier. Difference is, the Hawk is fast enough to close the range to use its fun treats... and, much like the Hunchback could advance under cover from long-range units like Trebuchets, the Jade Hawk can advance under cover from the long-range muscle of Gyrfalcons and Shrikes.

Also bear in mind that combat in this era is much heavier on combined-arms than before. That means infantry. That means urban environments, because that's where infantry work best... And a Clan-model Jade Hawk loose in a city is a bull in a china shop. Here the old Hunchback comparison falls apart a bit- a Hunchback loose in town becomes a nasty customer, stomping around a corner and delivering massive shells into a target... if it can get into position. A Hawk? It's bouncing all over purgatory, lasers and missiles and psychotic thrashing attacks... there's nowhere safe. It WILL catch its prey, and it WILL make it miserable- and if it gets into rough spot it simply hops away to safety and prepares its next attack.

Even in an open field fight, it's got uses, much like the Hunchie. Nothing motivates people to stay away from your Archers and Trebuchets like a Hunchback on guard duty- good news, I'm inside the LRM minimum range. Bad news, AC-20s hurt. Same here- even if I find a way to get in among the Gyrfalcons and such (and that's no easy task with the Gyrfalcon's mobility!), now the Jade Hawk on guard duty gets to go all kung-fu on its enemy.

This is an EXTREMELY dangerous design- it just needs to be used properly. This isn't a do-everything design the way some designs are, it isn't able to engage at any range with tools for every job the way a Mad Cat can. But in its roles, there's genuinely few designs that can compare to it- or survive long against one.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #449 on: 29 December 2015, 21:50:34 »
I have a question for Jade Falcon fans: does anyone know how the names of the various Clusters relate to their composition? What differentiates a Talon Cluster from a Jaegers Cluster from a Strikers Cluster from a Hussars Cluster, and so on?
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