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Author Topic: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!  (Read 95595 times)

JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #661 on: 23 March 2017, 07:07:29 »
Falcons! The voices from the Remembrance call to us!

What is the state of the Jade Falcon vision and philosophy after 3081? I realize the material and political state of the Clan... they had been halted at Tukayyid, caught up in pointless infighting with Clan Wolf and Diamond Shark in the interim period, humiliated by the failures of the lesser clans during the Great Refusal and Operation Bulldog and denied coming any closer than the moon to the jewel Terra during the Jihad.

Materially, the Clan is depleted to the point that any major operations are impossible. Politically, they have been able to keep their slice on the Inner Sphere and settle in to running those worlds.

But the Crusader philosophy and the great vision of the ancestors in the Remembrance seems to have hit an insurmountable obstacle. The entire raison d'être of invading the Inner Sphere was to take back that which rightfully belongs to us... that shining jewel Terra. So how has this vision and creed evolved with the historical events since 3050? Have the Falcons been forced to reinterpret their scriptures? Did they start to accept "Terra" as being a metaphor for simply returning to the Inner Sphere more generally? Most invasion clans have disintegrated and reintegrated into the Inner Sphere (Ghost Bear, Wolf in Exile, Goliath Scorpion, Snow Raven, Nova Cat)... they mix bloodlines with freebirth and share power, taking up their customs and forgetting the Way of the Clans. The disappointments of the Clan Invasion have been so destructive and demoralizing that these Clans completely lost any reason to continue existing in the traditional, corporate way, and they have evolved and diffused into their host cultures and societies.

In truth, only Jade Falcon remain on the pure path... but what does it mean now that the original goal is beyond reach?

For the sake of the argument, let's leave out the 3145 Jade Falcon situation and Malvina Hazen (I am not sure that she really is a revival of the Crusader mission, anyway... she champions "win at any cost" but lacks the spiritual foundations of the Crusader way).

OOC: Looking at the (end) Classic era 3080 AD, my two cents is that "Terra" is a metaphor now, and the Way of the Clans, is the key now, developing and enriching base Clan Society, centering around new permanent "dominions" in the Inner Sphere, not merely a "Occupation Zone" (more like, for the Falcons to fully move in, so to speak) keep the Eugenics Programme in its entirety, but also integrate conquered worlds populations to be contributing to society, just do not change the government like the bears, then anything Clan, slowing starts to get diluted and will wither away
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #662 on: 23 March 2017, 12:18:23 »
OOC: Looking at the (end) Classic era 3080 AD, my two cents is that "Terra" is a metaphor now, and the Way of the Clans, is the key now, developing and enriching base Clan Society, centering around new permanent "dominions" in the Inner Sphere, not merely a "Occupation Zone" (more like, for the Falcons to fully move in, so to speak) keep the Eugenics Programme in its entirety, but also integrate conquered worlds populations to be contributing to society, just do not change the government like the bears, then anything Clan, slowing starts to get diluted and will wither away

I'm not sure how the OZ is referred to in the fiction in 3080, but the CGL field manuals and era digests and era reports still refer to the Jade Falcon corridor as an "occupation zone." I'm not sure the Falcons ever gave up on the idea of Operation Revival. Practical things put active invasion on hold, of course, but I think Falcons are the best at being pragmatic in the short term without ultimately losing sight of their greater ideological vision in the long term.

You know, the more I read about Malvina the more I am coming to change my view of her. I am starting to believe that she actually epitomizes the true Way of the Clans. Lets think about it:

1) The true purpose of Operation Revival and the Crusader doctrine isn't "reintegrating into Inner Sphere life." If that were true, then the Great Father Kerensky would have made a mistake leaving the Inner Sphere in the first place (which is impossible).

2) Aleksandr Kerensky's vision was to return when the Inner Sphere had grown tired of its immature wars of petty politics and factionalism and was in need of a grand, ideological program for social unity and progress. Kerensky wanted to keep the pure, simple idea of the Star League intact (that humanity prospers when we overcome our differences), so that someone could reintroduce it when the time was right. Kerensky did not trust politics and knew that the military could never be allowed to be subservient to the machinations of politicians interested only in advancing their petty agendas (something which led to perpetual conflict, destruction and societal regression).

3) After the Exodus Civil War, Nicholas Kerensky developed his father's vision of a scientific, progressive society. He broke the back of factionalism by removing the hurdles of nationality, race and culture. Nicholas knew factionalism was irrational and only supported the schemes of the politicians who could exploit it for power and wealth. To dismantle this, he divided all of the resources in his socialist utopia among Clans (non-ethnic or nationalist "teams" that resolved differences through ritualised games of combat and competition). These rituals allowed the struggling exiles to avoid wasting resources, matériel and lives when making decisions and resolving disputes. And the Clans weren't natural groups of belonging... you were born into a Clan, but you might be captured and reintegrated into another Clan as Abtakha just as easily (thus curbing the human tendency towards tribalism). Nicholas knew that humanity always devolved into communities of difference, and so he filtered that tendency through the highly ritualised and fluid bondaries of Clan culture, thus ablating the most divisive and destructive excesses inherent in the unresolvable sociological problem of difference.

Malvina is admittedly a bit crazy, but her doctrine largely doesn't contradict these essential ideas. For Kerensky, society should be ruled by military commanders, whose approach to governance is more administrative than executive or autocratic. Military commanders are simply civil servants, on the payroll like everyone else, who are not subject to corruption and autocratic impulses because (unlike politicians) they have nothing to gain from this. Power is spread out, just as resources are, among the large branches of military staff, and a system is in place to rise within the ranks.

And military leaders best know the costs of war. Sure, Malvina has committed an atrocity or two, but can we really say that the Periphery or the Rim Worlds Republic viewed General Kerensky any differently when he brutally suppressed rebellions there? In fact, her doctrine goes to the very heart of the Remembrance... if we think of Elizabeth Hazen at the DeChavilier Massacre, Falcons are taught that we must win at any cost when survival itself is at stake.

Looking at the corruption of the other Clans who have lost their vision and their Way, the Falcons alone recognize that the success of the Crusade is itself a matter of survival or extinction. Either Kerensky was right or he was wrong, and since we know the latter is impossible, then there is only one thing left to do.

There is a minor point to be made about how Malvina has abandoned Zellbringen and bidding etc. These practices were developed in a time of great scarcity during the Exodus. They are not a central aspect of Clan creed... rather, they were historically necessary to survive in the brutal conditions of the Pentagon Worlds and the Kerensky Cluster. Sure, dropping an entire Warship on her opponents is "wasteful," but with the manufacturing centers and resources of the Occupation Zone, these aspects of the Clan vision are less important. The main objective of Clan society is to establish a progressive, scientifically-planned society that banishes factionalism, nationalism and politics so that humanity can once again progress as one in a new Golden Era. This core principle remains unchanged under Malvina's doctrine.

tl;dr: So, basically, Falcon harder. I said HARDER!
« Last Edit: 23 March 2017, 12:41:19 by Achtung Minen! »

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #663 on: 24 March 2017, 08:04:59 »
Excellent observation, but I think it's more on the Mongol Doctrine than on Malvina.  I'm actually a supporter of the idea of the Mongol Doctrine since, "Surrender or we'll hurt you so badly that you'll wish you surrendered and maybe the next guy will surrender," is an idea that even the simplest Spheroid can understand. 

However, we get the reader's view into her innermost thoughts, so we know that she's an omnicidal maniac who is just using the Falcons towards her own goals.  I don't see that ending well for the Jade Falcons, with the Clan either destroyed or neutered. 


   
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #664 on: 24 March 2017, 08:54:16 »
However, we get the reader's view into her innermost thoughts, so we know that she's an omnicidal maniac who is just using the Falcons towards her own goals.  I don't see that ending well for the Jade Falcons, with the Clan either destroyed or neutered. 

Or suffering yet another internal conflict to remove her.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #665 on: 24 March 2017, 09:27:09 »
Or suffering yet another internal conflict to remove her.

I'd wager on this being the most likely outcome, particularly with the Horses loyal to her having come to their senses and leaving. That said, with the death of Bec Malthus and the isolation of Noritomo Helmar, I'm not entirely sure who would be able to challenge her within the Falcon Clan at this point... I suspect the trope of "the only thing that can stop her is the unstoppable Alaric Ward" looms large.

Which, to be fair, artist's impression:

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #666 on: 24 March 2017, 09:43:00 »
Or suffering yet another internal conflict...

We shall call this one... "Tuesday".
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #667 on: 24 March 2017, 13:36:24 »
I'm thinking that Malvina's not-so-little-any-more "pet" is going to play a part in her downfall.  It'll be interesting to see if she(I forget the kid's name) plays an active roll, or just ends up being a pawn in someone else's game.  I'm hoping it's the first option.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #668 on: 24 March 2017, 14:17:40 »
I proposed an ending for Malvina many moons ago at a developers session. No idea if that's still in consideration or not....
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #669 on: 24 March 2017, 15:06:44 »
I proposed an ending for Malvina many moons ago at a developers session. No idea if that's still in consideration or not....

"...as she gasped her final breath into the pillow held over her face, Malvina's final thought was that the pillow smelled faintly of the same aftershave Victor Steiner-Davion was known to wear..."
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #670 on: 13 April 2017, 16:43:37 »
This seems like the right place to ask. What does the 3145 Turkina Keshik look like on a Star-type breakdown? I'm imagining plenty of Shrikes, Jade Hawks, Gyrfalcons, and Eyries, with the rest of the BattleMechs consisting of various modern OmniMechs to give the Elementals a ride.

For example, I can see an Assault Star consisting of three Shrikes and two Loki IIs.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #671 on: 13 April 2017, 16:57:49 »
According to FM:3145 Turkina Keshik is 100% Omni, same for the Raptor Keshik (Malvina's command Keshik). Those are the only two Keshiks in the Clan, but the Clusters of the Galaxy Commanders of Gamma, Epsilon, and Delta Galaxies are also 100% Omni. The rest are half or less Omni, Vau 43%, Zeta 50%, Omega 42%, Kappa 15%, Rho 25%, Iota 20%, and Lambda is Omni-less.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #672 on: 13 April 2017, 17:21:41 »
According to FM:3145 Turkina Keshik is 100% Omni, same for the Raptor Keshik (Malvina's command Keshik). Those are the only two Keshiks in the Clan, but the Clusters of the Galaxy Commanders of Gamma, Epsilon, and Delta Galaxies are also 100% Omni. The rest are half or less Omni, Vau 43%, Zeta 50%, Omega 42%, Kappa 15%, Rho 25%, Iota 20%, and Lambda is Omni-less.

Wow, really? All this time I thought she was riding a Shrike 3, but that's incompatible with those figures. How many of those Omnis did the Falcons buy from the Sea Foxes?

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #673 on: 14 April 2017, 07:25:31 »
Wow, really? All this time I thought she was riding a Shrike 3, but that's incompatible with those figures. How many of those Omnis did the Falcons buy from the Sea Foxes?
Malvina herself may be piloting a Shrike, with the rest of the unit in Omnis. No idea how many omnis needed to be bought/traded for, but they also likely have some that are leftovers or salvage from combat with other Clans. And in this era of scarcity, most Clans seem to be hording their Omnis in their premier units. Just because a non-omni is a good design doesn't mean that stereotypical Clan warrior doesn't want an Omni. It just means he or she will be less pissed off to not have an Omni.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #674 on: 14 April 2017, 09:42:11 »
Malvina herself may be piloting a Shrike, with the rest of the unit in Omnis. No idea how many omnis needed to be bought/traded for, but they also likely have some that are leftovers or salvage from combat with other Clans. And in this era of scarcity, most Clans seem to be hording their Omnis in their premier units. Just because a non-omni is a good design doesn't mean that stereotypical Clan warrior doesn't want an Omni. It just means he or she will be less pissed off to not have an Omni.

That Malvina, just gotta be a Special Snowflake. Oh well, at least she'd be easy to spot, piloting the only BattleMech in the unit, just right for some artillery strikes...  >:D

Also, I remembered what my original question was, and realized it was somewhat vague. I had asked for a breakdown of unit types. What I meant by that was more along the lines of "How many Trinaries consist of 'Mechs, whether standard or Omni? How many are ASFs or Omnifighters? How many Elemental Stars?"

While I originally asked this about the 3145 Turkina Keshik, I would also like to know the same about this Raptor Keshik (that I don't remember ever hearing about before, but my Falcon lore isn't the best).

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #675 on: 14 April 2017, 11:13:57 »
I'm searching some, not finding a ton about tactical setup. Although if you want more background info on the Raptor Keshik, they're called out in Era Report 3145. It's not a lot, but better than nothing.

I'll check later, but I think the MWDA novels have some info on it as well.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #676 on: 14 April 2017, 14:43:10 »
That seems unlikely, that the Keshik wouldn't use ANY of the new 'totem' designs at least. I'd bet on that being incorrect, but I'll have to check when I get home and see if there's any mention other than Malvina of Eyries and such serving in Keshik roles.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #677 on: 14 April 2017, 15:12:52 »
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #678 on: 14 April 2017, 15:36:01 »
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"

FM: 3145.

I'd say your thinking is along the right lines. The RATs for the Falcon 'Keshik/Command' units most often have the totem battlemechs as top billing.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #679 on: 14 April 2017, 16:10:22 »
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"

Bingo. Omni or not, same as with the older totems, if your Goliath Scorpion pilot is offered the chance to drive a Fire Scorpion instead of his current ride, no matter what it may be, he'll do two things.

1) Get higher than an aerospace fighter

2) Take that less-than-optimal quad and run it until his death. It's not a great Mech, but it's the very spirit of his Clan.

No way the Falcons treat their quartet of winged weirdos any different.
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But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #680 on: 14 April 2017, 19:57:51 »
Especially since most of their totem units are great 'Mechs.

Increasingly, "Omni %" strikes me as a terrible way to describe a unit in general, let alone as an expression of quality of equipment.  Equipment Ratings A/B/C/D/etc. with different RAT mods for each strikes me as a much better way of handling it.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #681 on: 14 April 2017, 21:04:31 »
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #682 on: 15 April 2017, 08:56:26 »
That seems unlikely, that the Keshik wouldn't use ANY of the new 'totem' designs at least. I'd bet on that being incorrect, but I'll have to check when I get home and see if there's any mention other than Malvina of Eyries and such serving in Keshik roles.
Well, one of the notable pilots for the Eyrie, Lyza Helmar, is said to be a part of the Raptor Keshik. 

Of course if she still wants an Omni with a melee weapon, there's the Karhu Prime, Karhu C, Turkina U, or Turkina X. Retractable Blades on the Karhus and Talons on the Turkinas.


Perhaps a better way would be to refer to the unit ratings, which coincidentally fall next to the Omni % in FM:3145. Obviously, it lists both the Raptor and Turkina Keshiks as using the Keshik tables. Looking at the Falcon RATs, that means the Keshiks could have any of the following non-OmniMechs: Spirit 2, Eyrie, Sun Cobra, Black Hawk (non-omni),Gyrfalcon, Mad Cat Mk IV PR2, Shadow Cat II 2, Tundra Wolf, Jupiter, Mad Cat Mk II Enhanced, Shrike, Shrike 2, Jupiter 4, Cygnus, or Hellstar.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #683 on: 18 April 2017, 23:39:25 »
Speaking of Malvina, do we have a TRO for her customized Shrike, or is it one of the canonized variants?

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #684 on: 19 April 2017, 00:04:33 »
Shrike 3

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #685 on: 19 April 2017, 00:09:18 »
Shrike 3

Thanks. I figured it was, but I couldn't remember where I had read that, and didn't want to assume. I'm actually working up a roster for the Raptor Keshik for my own use, and that helps a bunch.

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #686 on: 22 April 2017, 02:42:45 »
So how is the fiction coming of CJF post 3145 ? I am looking for any data, no matter how small, or even a summarised update from members on how my beloved Clan is going, and up to date official IS map would be good. Also how are sourcebooks coming ?
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #687 on: 22 April 2017, 05:27:17 »
I just had a look at the Shrike 3 and ye gods that thing is a terrifying heat hog.  Even if you add 4 tons of heatsinks its a monster, 54 heat before moving if you look at the alpha button  from the energy weapons alone. 

You'd think that Malvina would choose a more efficient weapon mix rather than the 3 which just slaps a pair of ER Peepers on and sets the atmosphere on fire if you press the big red Alpha button.  But then again this is Malvina Hazen we're talking about here.  The word 'balanced' or 'efficient' or 'sane' most certinally need not apply.
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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #688 on: 22 April 2017, 05:36:35 »
Especially since most of their totem units are great 'Mechs.

Increasingly, "Omni %" strikes me as a terrible way to describe a unit in general, let alone as an expression of quality of equipment.  Equipment Ratings A/B/C/D/etc. with different RAT mods for each strikes me as a much better way of handling it.

Omni % hails from when Omnis were the kings of the battlefield. Part of that fact is due to being able to reconfigure your mech due to battlefield conditions. (Remember that Omni reconfiguration goes way beyond the stock models, they are just the most regular used models which pods are preconfigured for).
Planning a long campaign where resupply might be hard? Change to energy weapons only.
Extra hot planet? Change to heat-efficicient weapons.
Cold planet? Pack some extra lasers (as Phelan did in Bred for War) to exploit the extra cooling.
Urban assault? Pack short range heavy hitting weapons.
Sniping trip? Reconfigure for long range weaponry.

And so forth.

While a standard Mech might be better individually in a normal short fight - how does it stand up for a various prolonged campaigns in differing conditions and situations?

But face it - being able to reuse the same Omni models over and over doesn't sell TROs which is why you get totem mechs... Even if Clan doctrine is built around the Omni... But try telling marketing people that. :P

Øystein
Who came up with those %s along with TPTB.

marauder648

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Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
« Reply #689 on: 22 April 2017, 06:04:48 »
Omni-flexibility comes at a cost though. More a logistical one as if you want to have various configs for the world you're dropping on its more cargo space taken up and most DropShips have pathetic amounts of cargo.  And then its a case of "Okay do we pack a gauss rifle for the battle on the plains we want to fight...or do we pack some ammo for the AC-20's for the city we'll need to fight in.
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