’Mech of the Week: Thor II

[Wrangler]

Oof. I forgot that IronWinds makes those nonCanon variants. I thought they only did that when they had a variant that was canon but no record sheet...

[Empyrus]

Those are official record sheets. Says so on the site.
Majority of their RS are for variants described in TROs but haven't received sheet otherwise. The Grand Summoner E is something of an exception, but if you read the thread, the variant was cut from the final product. Also canon, because it is listed on MUL.

[Wrangler]

That's dumb. It's in the MUL and yet they don't bother to include it as a record sheet. And yet they let a third party published the record sheet.

[Empyrus]

Uncertain of the order here, if MUL listed it first or IWM released the sheet first.

As for why TRO3145Clans didn't include the sheet originally, it is probably due to page limits (EDIT err, in as much as those count for digital products). Why RS3145unabridged didn't include it, uncertain, but page limits or just having what the mini-PDFs had are likely reasons.

[GreekFire]

Snip

Thanks, Empyrus.

[GreekFire]

I also asked about the nature of the record sheets here, in case anyone is interested: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68688.new#new

[Colt Ward]

Its sort of like the unofficial 'official' sheets that the makers released for some of the variants listed in the books.  As suggested, it was probably a last minute cut to the product that IWM had already slotted in the production cycle.

[Caedis Animus]

... Looking at the 'E', I don't see what's so broken about it, all things considered. It doesn't mount a targcomp, meaning it's dealing with a consistent +3mod, plus the fact you can't fire both ERPPCs every turn without rapid heat gain.

Like, sure, it's good, and effective by virtue of double headcap and 8 Jump, but I guess I just don't think of it as 'nasty' and more 'quirky'.

[Empyrus]

... Looking at the 'E', I don't see what's so broken about it, all things considered.

Nothing? It moves rapidly and has a pair of headcappers but overall damage output is kinda low for a Clan heavy.

[Caedis Animus]

Nothing? It moves rapidly and has a pair of headcappers but overall damage output is kinda low for a Clan heavy.

I dunno, reading up earlier in the article I guess I kinda got the impression that it'd be better. It's certainly not the cheese I was expecting.

[Scotty]

... Looking at the 'E', I don't see what's so broken about it, all things considered. It doesn't mount a targcomp, meaning it's dealing with a consistent +3mod, plus the fact you can't fire both ERPPCs every turn without rapid heat gain.

Like, sure, it's good, and effective by virtue of double headcap and 8 Jump, but I guess I just don't think of it as 'nasty' and more 'quirky'.

IJJs generate half heat, it gains a whopping two heat while jumping max distance and firing both guns.  Since heat doesn't affect jumping movement, that means the very first heat level you actually care about is 8.

[Colt Ward]

2-2-2-1 firing pattern?  Better than the old Warhammer & Marauder patterns.

[grimlock1]

2-2-2-1 firing pattern?  Better than the old Warhammer & Marauder patterns.

It's not hard to beat the old Marauder pattern.  The Warhammer could maintain 2-1-2 with the PPCs on a run, without being dragged down to 3/5

[Colt Ward]

The Grand Summoner E is a interesting looking mini . . . I never got a original Summoner, thought about the Grand but might pass since I will get one from the KS.

[Scotty]

The Grand Summoner E is a interesting looking mini . . . I never got a original Summoner, thought about the Grand but might pass since I will get one from the KS.

They're significantly different enough that I like mine and will be keeping them even when I make the switch to plastic for good.  Grand Summoners are significantly more symmetrical, and are easy to tell apart even from a distance.

[Colt Ward]

Can you share a picture of the two of them next to each other?

[Scotty]

Can you share a picture of the two of them next to each other?

Not presently, no, but the Ironwind store pages and kickstarter update have pictures that will suffice.

[Colt Ward]

Well I was meaning original Summoner & Grand next to each other . . . putting all the Wolverines in a row really showed how the -8K was skinny.

[Scotty]

The two pictures from Ironwind are very close to scale with each other and are arranged as close to 'next to each other' as I can get on a forum post.  I'm not sure what other information you're looking to glean from them.

[Colt Ward]

Nothing more than I mentioned.  Thanks for arranging them- I kept flipping back & forth between the 2 on IWM's site.  I may have to add the Grand Summoner to my IWM list, the blocker MWDA take without the paneling would be visually different from what will end up on tables.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Of course, the Thor II A makes a perfect Thor Prime mini, too.

[Caedis Animus]

IJJs generate half heat, it gains a whopping two heat while jumping max distance and firing both guns.  Since heat doesn't affect jumping movement, that means the very first heat level you actually care about is 8.

Ahhhh. Not as familiar with IJJs as I thought, then.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, IJJs have twice the mass and take up twice the criticals of standard jump jets, but they only generate 1 heat for every two hexes jumped (minimum of 3 heat)

[ThePW]

The TRO3145 NTNU section said that the Cougar had been restored to production.

The biggest perk of the Thor II over its predecessor is the podded jump jets. This allows it a bit more flexibility to either go for no-jet configs or IJJ ones. It's a lot more flexibility then the original offered, especially in this age of expanded options.

Interestingly enough, the original Thor may still be in production. It was built by Olivetti on Sudeten, while the Thor II is built by Eagle Craft Grup on Erewhon. True, the Thor may have been discontinued and its lines repurposed for other designs, but the two are not exclusive

My personal Head cannon is that legacy JF units from OP:R are built for training purposes (example: Why does the Wolf Empire still take the time Hand Build Legacy Timberwolves?). Compared to the resources used to build Hel's, old school Hellbringers are cheap.

[Wrangler]

My personal Head cannon is that legacy JF units from OP:R are built for training purposes (example: Why does the Wolf Empire still take the time Hand Build Legacy Timberwolves?). Compared to the resources used to build Hel's, old school Hellbringers are cheap.

but but...Warriors like shiny new things.

[Colt Ward]

My personal Head cannon is that legacy JF units from OP:R are built for training purposes (example: Why does the Wolf Empire still take the time Hand Build Legacy Timberwolves?). Compared to the resources used to build Hel's, old school Hellbringers are cheap.

Calling the Timber Wolves hand built is a misnomer . . . they are hand assembled, no one is handbuilding the 300XL that goes into the design.  Also consider the Wolves have 2 other 75t mechs in their production lines and they would have a large stock of Timber Wolves post Invasion . . . less after the Jihad of course.  The Warwolf is going to use the same gyro, engine and actuators- the Tundra Wolf will use the same gyro and actuators.  Offhand IIRC the Dire Wolves would use the same engine too.

Instead of being automated production lines like modern car factories, you are looking at something like the WWII bomber aseembly lines . . . and that throw away line has probably been causing TPTB heartburn for years b/c of some players insistence.

[glitterboy2098]

i'd argue the closer comparison would be the custom built Hot-Rod industry. workshops taking materials and parts from existing modern vehicle sources and then modifying and assembling those parts in a workshop to create a vehicle that looks like and largely performs like an old classic car.

the methodology is pretty much the same as the aircraft assembly line example*, but gets across the small batch nature of the canon Timberwolf Production better.


*modern aircraft are actually assembled much the same way as they were in WW2, so comparing 'modern' production vs old style kinda falls flat here.
compare:
to

given that most mass production mech assembly in clan and IS space is also in such "Parallel workshop" form and not automated, further distinction is needed between small batch custom production like the Timberwolf, and the large batch production of other mechs. which is better allegoricalized by comparison to an industry where production is centered on small workshops rather than large assembly facilities.

[Empyrus]

I'd imagine "hand-assembled" means something like modern aircraft production, while typical 'Mech production uses robots and automated manufacturing lines (with more robots and automation as tech level increases).

[Colt Ward]

I thought the sub-assemblies had more robotics?  But yeah, in my mind it was in opposition to . . .



or



Or the Pacific Rim type factory . . .

[Caedis Animus]

Odd tangent relating to Titanfall-Regular Titans are literally built on the orbiting ship 5 minutes before they are deployed. That's canon. They come as pre-assembled 'chunks' like in the picture you linked, and are dropped from orbit as soon as they are completed, but otherwise come unassembled.

Come to think of it, it's one of the very precious few advantages Titanfall Titans have over Battlemechs.

Regardless, I'd wager it's a happy middle ground. You aren't building a Zeus in 5 minutes, let alone a month (One of the closest weight analogues to the Ogre-Class Titan), but it's not all done with sweat either.