VotW: Gulltoppr

[Caedis Animus]

Oh god, that thing. A star-level Mammoth tank is the single scariest thing I have ever fielded in C&C3. And at the time where I had one, I had TWO.

If an AI player could crap their pants, I'm 80% sure the normal-AI Noddist commander would have.

Pretty sure good ol' Mammies is faster, though.

[Diplominator]

The Gulltoppr has been the absolute bane of my Falcon formations whenever I've tested it. I tend to rely on staying mobile and trying to quickly degrade a few key enemy units, but this thing just does not care about getting shot. I mean, sure, you can end up making it actually immobile, but you can't make it stop shooting you without devoting a serious beating to it, which lets all its friends off the hook. In addition, since it's staying still and often firing artillery cannons or Artemis V LRMs, it stands a good chance of hitting even very jumpy stuff. Have you seen what an LTC does to a Gyrfalcon? Crispy chicken nuggets with a generous helping of powdered glass.

Plus, between the +2 bonus and the ability to say, "yes, hmm, I think my Gulltoppr is gonna stay where it is, your turn to move," it can really screw up your initiative.


Whoever's running the Rhodes Project for the RAF could probably learn a thing or two.

[Fletch]

Yeah, looks like either kill it till it's dead or throw infantry at it and try and use the TO rules for 'Taking control of a unit/Swarming'.  Given their size it;s a shame BA can't use boarding type actions.  Would make designers think more about point defences.

[Khymerion]

Yeah, looks like either kill it till it's dead or throw infantry at it and try and use the TO rules for 'Taking control of a unit/Swarming'.  Given their size it;s a shame BA can't use boarding type actions.  Would make designers think more about point defences.

Never though I would see the possibility of getting to run a pirate scenario in BT but now I can easily imagine an Errol Flynn swashbuckling scene of one super heavy pulling up alongside another super heavy and crews swinging across to have sword fights on the upper decks of these beasts.

Eventually, we will have enough big toys to make someone saying 'Hey, I want to field a Rattler' no longer cause people to blanch and walk away from the table.

[marauder648]

I've got to ask what does the the Gullcopper's name actually mean?

[imperator]

The Norse god heimdle's horses name.

[marauder648]

So...they named a thing that can be outrun by a vigerious glacier after a horse :s  Could have been worse could have called it Cheetah or something...

[Jellico]

Yeah, looks like either kill it till it's dead or throw infantry at it and try and use the TO rules for 'Taking control of a unit/Swarming'.  Given their size it;s a shame BA can't use boarding type actions.  Would make designers think more about point defences.

As noted it is all about combined arms. You don't need point defense when Fenrir IIs can keep up.

[Prince of Darkness]

Teppo, Destrier, now the Gulltoppr. All these superheavies make me jealous.

Since overweight and hardly practical superweapons seem to be a trademark of cornered and doomed regimes, can´t we Regulans get a modern Soarece?

Well like that Flea, I would think a few would be scattered around somewhere...

[Wrangler]

Thank you for the write up, Gulltoppr.   I didn't notice article till now. So i'm grateful for you coming in writing up.

Its darn same about errant, not everyone knows about them.  I'm sure there people using the Gulltoppr without knowing about it.

It too bad, this thing falls below Destrier now without the hardened armor in my opinion.  I wish it could be reworked to have a non-omni variant that remedies the situation.  I know a Armored Motive Systems would take too much room fit i would think into our Lyran Gulltoppr, maybe newer armor classes would help.   Reading up on them, FM3145's anti-penetrative ablation armor or  Ballistic-Reinforced Armor (baby Hardened armor) can be mounted on a Omni.  Just not pod mounted. That would solve the problem of the lost of use of Hardened Armor.  You just got import it from Draconis Combine....

[JadeHellbringer]

Teppo, Destrier, now the Gulltoppr. All these superheavies make me jealous.

Since overweight and hardly practical superweapons seem to be a trademark of cornered and doomed regimes, can´t we Regulans get a modern Soarece?

The Nova Cats must have missed the memo. Pity.

[Diablo48]

Yeah, looks like either kill it till it's dead or throw infantry at it and try and use the TO rules for 'Taking control of a unit/Swarming'.  Given their size it;s a shame BA can't use boarding type actions.  Would make designers think more about point defences.

Have you ever seen what a Long Tom shell does to infantry?  This thing has all the point defense it needs.

[Savage Coyote]

I've used the A in Alpha Strike.  It took on an Ares and support assaults without much of an issue.  Of course it's tossing like 9 damage at medium and long range and has/had a ton of armor to chew through.  I wonder if the MUL card has been updated?  Anyway, yeah, the Gulltoppr creates a nice nasty no-go zone between it's firepower and the firepower of it's attendants :)

[Jellico]

Thank you for the write up, Gulltoppr.   I didn't notice article till now. So i'm grateful for you coming in writing up.

Its darn same about errant, not everyone knows about them.  I'm sure there people using the Gulltoppr without knowing about it.

It too bad, this thing falls below Destrier now without the hardened armor in my opinion.  I wish it could be reworked to have a non-omni variant that remedies the situation.  I know a Armored Motive Systems would take too much room fit i would think into our Lyran Gulltoppr, maybe newer armor classes would help.   Reading up on them, FM3145's anti-penetrative ablation armor or  Ballistic-Reinforced Armor (baby Hardened armor) can be mounted on a Omni.  Just not pod mounted. That would solve the problem of the lost of use of Hardened Armor.  You just got import it from Draconis Combine....

Gulltoppr is pretty much designed to end up immobile. Notice the double turrets? Single turrets are much more efficient because of armour costs, but doubles offer an edge in absorbing crits.
It is interesting to consider whether the Gulltoppr or Destrier is superior because they take two different design philosophies. The Destrier is all about artillery and range, where the Gulltoppr is a defensive hard point (and could be all about artillery if you really wanted. Personally I discounted the assault role because I believe separating the assault elements across several units works better eg. Some Arrow IV Demolishers and a couple of Ajax. While the slow speed may work in a grinding operations, it equally may not when some fast mover crits your motive systems out. At least in a defensive role the enemy has to come to you. Escape then becomes the issue. But I see Gulltopprs as mobile bunkers and all fortifications have that problem.

[Welshman]

A fine tank. No, this ones not mine. We had to let some other designers create some superheavies as well.

I'm just going to toss out that the Destrier has been around long enough for the Davion's best allies to get a few of them.

"Sir, we broke through the Destrier assault line and found their HQ unit."

"That's excellent soldier, why do you sound like you're about to cry."

"Their HQ unit is a Gulltopper..."

[cold1]

Yeah this almost feels like it was meant to work with it's Davion cousin,  they compliment each other well.  Surprised there's not one with a couple iHGR's on it though.

[Caedis Animus]

The Nova Cats must have missed the memo. Pity.

Eh, I think it was more of they just didn't see it coming. Or that they still exist via the Spirit Cats, maybe?

[mbear]

Gulltoppr is pretty much designed to end up immobile. Notice the double turrets? Single turrets are much more efficient because of armour costs, but doubles offer an edge in absorbing crits.
It is interesting to consider whether the Gulltoppr or Destrier is superior because they take two different design philosophies. The Destrier is all about artillery and range, where the Gulltoppr is a defensive hard point (and could be all about artillery if you really wanted. Personally I discounted the assault role because I believe separating the assault elements across several units works better eg. Some Arrow IV Demolishers and a couple of Ajax. While the slow speed may work in a grinding operations, it equally may not when some fast mover crits your motive systems out. At least in a defensive role the enemy has to come to you. Escape then becomes the issue. But I see Gulltopprs as mobile bunkers and all fortifications have that problem.

So the Gulltoppr is an Omnicapable superheavy Schildkröte? For once I feel sorry for Jade Falcon troops.

Eh, I think it was more of they just didn't see it coming.

Really? Given how slowly it moves, I find that hard to believe. ;)

[Colt Ward]

Lol . . . A Gull as a C3 company master . . . . lances of Gurties and Turtles surrounding it, a definite no-go zone.

[Caedis Animus]

That area's just asking for orbital bombardment, WoR-style.

Or saturated Long Tom bombardment, that works too.

[Scotty]

Even after the errata, that's still a shit load of armor to go through.  136 points on the front?  ******.  That's the kind of armor that can actually stand a Davy Crockett detonating 30 meters away, and then trundle off to eat another nuke.

[mbear]

That area's just asking for orbital bombardment, WoR-style.

Or saturated Long Tom bombardment, that works too.

Maybe that's why that WarShip crashed...

[Jellico]

Yeah this almost feels like it was meant to work with it's Davion cousin,  they compliment each other well.  Surprised there's not one with a couple iHGR's on it though.

I would have to double check the rules for super heavies, but I believe iHGRs can't be turret mounted. Something of a problem on a tank so slow.

[Ghostbear_Gurdel]

I would have to double check the rules for super heavies, but I believe iHGRs can't be turret mounted. Something of a problem on a tank so slow.

It has the pod space, just put one facing in every direction...

[Caedis Animus]

GB_G, you just gave me the most evil idea. I'm going to now ruin a friendship with what you just described.

[Phobos]

Interesting vehicle.

And is that errata'd armor measly standard armor or at least HFF?



Also, this thing inspired me to tinker a bit. For anyone interested or willing to share his thoughts how this thing could be improved:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/improving-the-gulltoppr/

[Avitue]

IIRC even if errataed to standard all it loses are the -1 to crit roll bonus hardened gives, since the same weight of hardened and standard gives you exactly the same protection.

[Diablo48]

A fine tank. No, this ones not mine. We had to let some other designers create some superheavies as well.

I'm just going to toss out that the Destrier has been around long enough for the Davion's best allies to get a few of them.

"Sir, we broke through the Destrier assault line and found their HQ unit."

"That's excellent soldier, why do you sound like you're about to cry."

"Their HQ unit is a Gulltopper..."

I would say that is justification for breaking out the nukes, but...

Even after the errata, that's still a shit load of armor to go through.  136 points on the front?  ******.  That's the kind of armor that can actually stand a Davy Crockett detonating 30 meters away, and then trundle off to eat another nuke.

...Yeah, that is not going to work either.

[Orin J.]

Yeah, looks like either kill it till it's dead or throw infantry at it and try and use the TO rules for 'Taking control of a unit/Swarming'.  Given their size it;s a shame BA can't use boarding type actions.  Would make designers think more about point defences.

honestly, as the amount of armor and guns you're looking at with this thing, i'm more inclined to throw engineers at it- if i can find a way to put up some bridges or make the ground under it stop holding it up (the ground is a much softer target all in all) i can just  cut the blasted thing off from retreat, keep a few units on hand to poke it if it tries to move, and wait for the crew to surrender while my force moves around it.

i mean if the oversized tank wants to play at being a fortress, it can get treated like a fortress. you don't swarm a castle with pages, after all.

[Phobos]

IIRC even if errataed to standard all it loses are the -1 to crit roll bonus hardened gives, since the same weight of hardened and standard gives you exactly the same protection.

-2. And that is actually rather huge.