(Another) Mech of the Week - The Cauldron Born

[cold1]

Speaking of Ebon Jaguars with hips, the MechWarrior Online rendition went this route as well.  I think it looks pretty awesome too 8)

Wait when did they get more clan mechs?

[martian]

Wait when did they get more clan mechs?

Yes:

• Hankyu
• Shadow Cat
• Cauldron-Born
• Gladiator

Clan Invasion Wave 3 'Mech Pack

[JadeHellbringer]

I guess there's a game balance to be kept, but with it standing as tall as it does it looks too Timber Wolf-esque to me.

Actually... is it weird that looking at it there, it looks like the Mad Cat Mk.II from the XTRO? Imagine matching box launchers and bigger arms.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That's the mech I was trying to think of.  Yeah, it looks a lot like the Mad Cat Mk II Enhanced.

[martian]

I guess there's a game balance to be kept, but with it standing as tall as it does it looks too Timber Wolf-esque to me.

The actual game model may be different. Compare some previous examples of the concept art against actual in-game 'Mechs.

[SteelRaven]

I actually Like omnimechs sharing common design features. You can tell the Cougar is related to the Puma, the Pouncer , Shadow Cat and Grendel arguably are not far off but loose made the Cauldern Born, Fire Falcon, Black Lanner more rounded and egg shape. It's the same time many of Loose's IS designs stated sharing that 'walking potato' characteristic.     

[Orin J.]

I actually Like omnimechs sharing common design features. You can tell the Cougar is related to the Puma, the Pouncer , Shadow Cat and Grendel arguably are not far off but loose made the Cauldern Born, Fire Falcon, Black Lanner more rounded and egg shape. It's the same time many of Loose's IS designs stated sharing that 'walking potato' characteristic.   

i'm a fan of that too, but in this case they changed the design of the existing 'mech pretty drastically, so a little concession like that is kinda like a booby prize.

[Neo-Tanuki]

Has anyone here tried out the Ebon Jaguar "Samantha" variant from HTP Luzerne? I was looking at the stats and it looked potentially pretty good with 3 LRMs, an ER PPC and an UAC 20.

[SteelRaven]

Has anyone here tried out the Ebon Jaguar "Samantha" variant from HTP Luzerne? I was looking at the stats and it looked potentially pretty good with 3 LRMs, an ER PPC and an UAC 20.

Yeah, I think the Samantha configuration makes some of the best use of the Cauldron Borns pod space.

i'm a fan of that too, but in this case they changed the design of the existing 'mech pretty drastically, so a little concession like that is kinda like a booby prize.

Drastic change from ...er, which one? Honestly, no two artist have drawn the same mech! :D
http://img.masterunitlist.info/BattleMechs/Cauldron-Born.gif
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/8/88/Cauldronborn.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/128/0/9/Cauldron_Born_Blueprint_by_Walter_NEST.jpg
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2015/057/9/7/mwo_cauldron_born_template_by_odanan-d8jmi6t.png
 

[Getz]

So...

I've been playing a lot with my Smoke Jags for the first time in years and have taken the opportunity to try out some of the E. Jag configurations I'd previously ignored.  There were some pleasant surprises...

First up, the C isn't half bad.  It had always looked underwhelming to me in the past - and yes, it still lacks a big hitting weapon - but it's really cheap for a Clan heavy mech and so long as you're patient with it it can do great job wearing down an enemy at long range.  It's actually a pretty viable alternative to a Mad Dog if you're looking for a low end heavy LRM bucket.

Secondly, the H is downright scary.  Last night I had one disarm a Grizzly in two turns of fire.  It literally chopped the Gauss arm off in one turn and blew out the opposite torso the next leaving the thing hopping around with no weapons.  Prior to that I've had one effectively take out a Summoner in a single round of fire.  Shame it post-dates the Smoke Jaguar annihilation because it's 100% in keeping with how they liked to go about business.

Finally, I used a B for the first time ever last night and it did remarkably well.  It ended up duelling a Black Python 1 which was doing the usual trick of leaping about whilst cutting me up with hyper accurate pulse laser fire.  However, because we were using the Tac-ops rules for active probes, I was able to lurk in some hexes of woods and equalise our target numbers by ignoring some of the intervening terrain.  Eventually the Black Python pilot got fed up of missing me and made positioning mistake trying to get a better shot in a turn when I'd won initiative.  I immediately rushed out of cover and into point-blank range like a good little berserker and slapped the big red Alpha-strike button with all my might.  Needless to say I my mech briefly glowed white hot and then promptly shut down (and took a bunch of damage from the Black Python in the process) but with all that fire-power on tap I more or less instantly cut his mech in half - slicing one side torso off which in turn triggered a heat spike which detonated his machine gun ammo.  His pilot promptly blacked out from the neural feedback so both duelling partners ended up side by side and stationary, one trying desperately to cool off before the other regained conciousness.  Luckily for me we both came back on line in the same turn and whilst a took a bunch more damage, I was able to finish off the Black Python with a third engine hit in the next shooting phase.

I still don't think the B config is actually good, but it was an entertaining fight.

[SteelRaven]

So...

I've been playing a lot with my Smoke Jags for the first time in years and have taken the opportunity to try out some of the E. Jag configurations I'd previously ignored.  There were some pleasant surprises...

First up, the C isn't half bad.  It had always looked underwhelming to me in the past - and yes, it still lacks a big hitting weapon - but it's really cheap for a Clan heavy mech and so long as you're patient with it it can do great job wearing down an enemy at long range.  It's actually a pretty viable alternative to a Mad Dog if you're looking for a low end heavy LRM bucket.

Secondly, the H is downright scary.  Last night I had one disarm a Grizzly in two turns of fire.  It literally chopped the Gauss arm off in one turn and blew out the opposite torso the next leaving the thing hopping around with no weapons.  Prior to that I've had one effectively take out a Summoner in a single round of fire.  Shame it post-dates the Smoke Jaguar annihilation because it's 100% in keeping with how they liked to go about business.

Finally, I used a B for the first time ever last night and it did remarkably well.  It ended up duelling a Black Python 1 which was doing the usual trick of leaping about whilst cutting me up with hyper accurate pulse laser fire.  However, because we were using the Tac-ops rules for active probes, I was able to lurk in some hexes of woods and equalise our target numbers by ignoring some of the intervening terrain.  Eventually the Black Python pilot got fed up of missing me and made positioning mistake trying to get a better shot in a turn when I'd won initiative.  I immediately rushed out of cover and into point-blank range like a good like berserker and slapped the big red Alpha-strike button with all my might.  Needless to say I my mech briefly glowed white hot and then promptly shut down (and took a bunch of damage from the Black Python in the process) but with all that fire-power on tap I more or less instantly cut his mech in half - slicing one side torso off which in turn triggered a heat spike which detonated his machine gun ammo.  His pilot promptly blacked out from the neural feedback so both duelling partners ended up side by side and stationary, one trying desperately to cool off before the other regained conciousness.  Luckily for me we both came back on line in the same turn and whilst a took a bunch more damage, I was able to finish off the Black Python with a third engine hit in the next shooting phase.

I still don't think the B config is actually good, but it was an entertaining fight.

That read like one hell of a trail :) and your use of the AP reminds me why I love the Hellbringer Prime ;D

I have had a long hiatus from the Clans, I should give the D a run the next time I get the chance.

[JadeHellbringer]

I have had a long hiatus from the Clans, I should give the D a run the next time I get the chance.

You really should. It looks underwhelming at a glance, and the lack of crit-seeking weaponry can be a little frustrating as a fight wears on, but there's not a lot of Mechs at the 65-ton bracket I prefer over the EJ-D. Crank those cannons up to full power, leave the large laser at home once you're in mid-range combat, and just start blowing holes in your target until it dies, you die, or you pass out at the table from giggling.

...always meant to mod one of them and never got around to it, figured the shoulder guns on a Legacy would be a good fit.

Aaaanywho, switching one of the guns for an LB-10X always appealed (then again, an LB-10X always appeals to me anyway), but as it is that thing just hammers armor off a target. Fun little monster, for sure.

[Takiro]

The Ebon Jaguar was one of those Clan OmniMechs I didn't really like mostly because of its configurations, its replacement of the iconic Hellbringer (Loki) and to a lesser extent its creator. Being a Smoke Jaguar design it was a fine piece to have among your enemies wreckage but it really never got much attention from me before the Quicksilver Trials. It is non-canon but our design contest to revise every Clan OmniMech really bought out the best in the Cauldron Born. Thanks to a great group of designers its optimized configurations (link below to our contest) are now some of my favorites and if I could chose a Heavy to pilot among the Clans it just might be the Ebon Jaguar. So I've really turned around on this one folks. :thumbsup:

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=3591.msg44775#msg44775

[Getz]

That read like one hell of a trail :) and your use of the AP reminds me why I love the Hellbringer Prime ;D

I have had a long hiatus from the Clans, I should give the D a run the next time I get the chance.

You really should - the D is very capable and has been my go-to configuration for the longest time.

[Colt Ward]

It seems the 65t Clan Omnis either have weird weapon configurations or bad configs & base (Hellbringer) which leaves the Arcas as the best Clan 65t mech . . . and any Cauldron Born attempting to clone it a bit worse off in the armor area, but more secondaries.

For something that became the Clan standard heavy after the Jaguars were wiped out it has a deplorable lack of configurations- and I am not just meaning good ones.  It has 7 outside the U . . . though the X exists, its got some advanced systems that would put it outside regular play.  The Summoner has 12, 13 if you count the AA with its ER Pulse, plus the U & Z.  Then again, the Hellbringer only had 3 or so until 3050U and just has 8 standard w/1 mixed tech configs.  Linebacker is pretty close, but it still gets a really good Dark Age config though it has the suck of OS SSRM2s.

Love to see a SharkFox/Horse/Raven Cauldron Born config using Superchargers, Plasma Cannon/Rifle, IJJs, or some of the other stuff we see later on that the SharkFoxes sell like the Watchdog.

[Scotty]

Point of order: the Loki Mk II is the best Clan 65 ton 'Mech.  Nothing else manages to play Hellstar-lite until a mite bit bigger than that.  :D

[Colt Ward]

Hmm . . . I will grant you the Prime can throw some light & metal down range . . . but its missing a DHS but its like the Night Gyr vs Timberwolf arguments, but with JJ on the faster mech's side.  I will take my +3 move mod at range while the Prime overheats trying to close & damage me.

Though you are right, the last time I made the claim the Loki II was not around!

[Kojak]

Point of order: the Loki Mk II is the best Clan 65 ton 'Mech.  Nothing else manages to play Hellstar-lite until a mite bit bigger than that.  :D

Patently ridiculous. The Balius is clearly the finest Clan 65-tonner. I mean, name one other 65-ton 'Mech that can consistently pull off a +4 to-hit mod from running.  ^-^

[Scotty]

Patently ridiculous. The Balius is clearly the finest Clan 65-tonner. I mean, name one other 65-ton 'Mech that can consistently pull off a +4 to-hit mod from running.  ^-^

Uh, you first?  The Balius is 6/9.  +4 TMM starts at 10 hexes. ???

I'm pretty sure the Karhu is the only 65-tonner period (not counting MASC, of course) that can achieve a +4, and that's with IJJs.

[Colt Ward]

Linebacker G has a supercharger, 6/9(12) . . . 2iHLL, TC and the pair of stupid OS SSRM2.

But since they are Omnis, any could mount IJJ

[Kojak]

Uh, you first?  The Balius is 6/9.  +4 TMM starts at 10 hexes. ???

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5569.msg129365#msg129365

And the relevant chunk:

Finally, here's something I think a lot of people don't consider when evaluating this design:

You need to go prone with it. A lot.

Consider that it only costs 1 MP, and provides another +1 at range *without* giving you any penalties. It's like free, portable cover. It also gives you another option when dealing with an opponent that likes to punch.
And getting back up happens automatically while all legs are on, just burn the 2 MP, and take the 1 heat.
Which means that the Prime, with 2 ERLL, at a run, and having gotten up that turn is... at 0 heat.
Which means that the B can elect to run away from you one turn, still generate a +3, and STILL shoot you with the damn LPL.

Here's the other aspect of that:
At 6/9, and needing to invest 1 MP to go prone, you should be able to move at 7 hexes every turn.
At 5/8, not so much.
At 6/9, and needing to invest 2MP to stand up, at which point you can pick any facing, you'll likely still get your 7 hexes, or take 5-6 and another prone.
At 5/8, not so much.

5/8 is a pretty decent speed for a biped. 6/9 is nice. But a quad suffers a bit at 5/8, I would say that the sweet spots bump by 1 base MP.
So, a biped's 7/11 is a quad's 8/12. Etc.

If you're not using prone properly with this guy, you're leaving money on the table.

[Scotty]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5569.msg129365#msg129365

And the relevant chunk:

Oh, well in that case, your search for another is over.

I'd still pick a Loki Mk II over either. :P

[Kojak]

Oh, well in that case, your search for another is over.

I'd still pick a Loki Mk II over either. :P

Oooh, the Ursa, good pull. I'd totally forgotten that was a Clan design.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good Slowki as much as the next guy. But there are few things in the game more satisfying than smoking somebody with one of the goofiest 'Mechs in the setting in a zell duel.

All that said, to bring it back on topic, I'd like to see an Ebon Jag variant that uses a supercharger and modular armor. Give it that zombie feel the fluff talks about.

[Colt Ward]

modular armor?  you mean carrying Elementals?

[Fallen_Raven]

modular armor?  you mean carrying Elementals?

That joke never gets old... and neither do the Elementals!  ;D

But seriously, I don't think Modular Armor would add enough durability to qualify as a zombie. Ten points a ton to a single location just isn't enough to make a 65-tonner feel harder to kill without cutting into the firepower dramatically. I suppose throwing some over the rear to allow for more aggressive maneuvering could make for surprise.

[Caedis Animus]

Obligatory 'They must've mixed the Kingfisher's and Cauldron Born's names up in the TRO!' response.

As tired as that saying is, it's either that or the Cauldron Born was originally a slower SFE Omni.

[marauder648]

It may be obligatory, but it does kinda work, even the names suit the art. The Cauldron's quite predatory and sleek and the Kingfisher's a big lumbering brute.  Swap the names round, tidy up the fluff to get rid of the Cauldron's supposed toughness and you'd be sorted.

And that trial against the Black Python sounded fun.  A full alpha strike from a Cauldron B would basically be - https://youtu.be/V6DF2qCd9TI?t=21

[Getz]

And that trial against the Black Python sounded fun.  A full alpha strike from a Cauldron B would basically be - https://youtu.be/V6DF2qCd9TI?t=21

Yeah - I basically reasoned that seeing that I was probably going to shut down from firing most of the guns anyway, I might as well go the whole hog and be certain...

[Demiurge]

I always figured that the thing is crazy tough... if your baseline for comparison is the Hellbringer.

[SteelRaven]

Considering whoever gave the Ebon Jag it's IS designation was was probably watching it tear through mechs like the ARC-2R Archer and Warhammer WHM-6R, I don't see it as a stretch.

Only thing that stands out is that out of the three Clan mechs introduced in the Luthien Scenario Pack (Hankyu, Nobori-nin, Cauldron Born) it's the one without a Japanese IS Designation. It was probably named by one of the Mercenaries as the Nova Cats and Smoke Jags smashed their lines in the opening offensive of the Kudo-Guchi Valley where the Ebon Jag was first seen be IS forces. Considering how fast the DCMS turned things around, those first few Cauldron Born may have spent their armor breaking through the first line and the first to fall when the Dragons pushed back in numbers.