What Was the "Clan Plan" Once They Conquered the Inner Sphere?

[cold1]

Ya know the clans were probably supposed to reform into the SLDF before they came back. And a lot of the clans were built to be part of a bigger army.  I'm pretty sure one of the khans essentially pointed this out in the grand council prior to Revival  ;)

[jklantern]

Ya know the clans were probably supposed to reform into the SLDF before they came back. And a lot of the clans were built to be part of a bigger army.  I'm pretty sure one of the khans essentially pointed this out in the grand council prior to Revival  ;)

Obviously, he wasn't very important, nor could his opinion have been well-spoken and thought out.  I mean, it's not like the other Clans would behave like petulant children towards him, right?

[Sir Chaos]

I think Ulric knew it could not be done, and that is the kicker to his awesomely smug and manipulative/suggestive little speeches.

Yep. He did his best to execute a plan than it was abundantly clear he opposed, and his Wolves were far more successful at it than the other Clans - so when it inevitably failed, he could point that, (1) "I told you so", (2) it was their plan, not his and (3) his Warden philosophy, not their Crusader philosophy, produced the best results during the invasion.

[rebs]

Yep. He did his best to execute a plan than it was abundantly clear he opposed, and his Wolves were far more successful at it than the other Clans - so when it inevitably failed, he could point that, (1) "I told you so", (2) it was their plan, not his and (3) his Warden philosophy, not their Crusader philosophy, produced the best results during the invasion.

Ulric beat the Crusaders to death *with their own boots*.  ;)  In effect.

Another big part of the equation, right here:

Ya know the clans were probably supposed to reform into the SLDF before they came back. And a lot of the clans were built to be part of a bigger army.  I'm pretty sure one of the khans essentially pointed this out in the grand council prior to Revival  ;)

I bet you could use a vibroblade to cut the smug silence from Ulric Kerensky during any such speech. 

He felt for that poor Khan and his unheeded wisdom, but was glad to help torpedo him with silence. 

[Dayton3]

I guess the only way the Clans could really conquer all the way to Terra and reestablish the Star League would be to use all 17 clans and all their combined warships,  using orbital bombardments to eliminate any substantial IS military forces along the way.

Of course doing that would involve lots of honorless combat that would be completely against the Clan way so to speak.

Speaking of using warships,  was there ever any major warship to warship combat between the Clans during all those centuries?

[Drewbacca]

I know you had some 200 years of pride behind it, but it still boggles the mind (in universe that is) that they accepted that is took 20 Clans, "800 Warriors" to conquer five planets, but four clans, 12 Galaxies, could take over a good chunk of the inner sphere.

[soshi]

They clearly state that their was 20 clans of 40 mechwarriors (the leaders of the warriors) they also had vehicle and infantry and asfs another 2 trinaries (or 2 binaries) worth.  The mechwarriors wrote the history so you hear more about what the Mechwarriors where doing. 

[jklantern]

I bet you could use a vibroblade to cut the smug silence from Ulric Kerensky during any such speech. 

He felt for that poor Khan and his unheeded wisdom, but was glad to help torpedo him with silence.

Actually, when I read that, I interpreted it as Ulric essentially going, "Well, you tried to warn them, I will work so they see the error of their ways, and THEN we can do it correctly, like you guys want."  I kinda think that he may have been a student of the Adders, and (weird Jantern Logic) being sort of a middle ground between Warden/Crusader.  I think he may have supported conquering the Inner Sphere in private (which the party line was against), but essentially, for the Inner Sphere's own good.  Almost like the Vipers, except a little saner, maybe?

[Jal Phoenix]

Ya know the clans were probably supposed to reform into the SLDF before they came back. And a lot of the clans were built to be part of a bigger army.  I'm pretty sure one of the khans essentially pointed this out in the grand council prior to Revival  ;)

That would be the guy who presented a great idea as if everyone should suddenly bow before it, then when called on a tiny detail didn't have the scrot to follow through with the most important part.  I found this pic of old Stan during that hearing, contemplating some of his fellow Khans immediately after that speech:



 

[jklantern]

That would be the guy who presented a great idea as if everyone should suddenly bow before it, then when called on a tiny detail didn't have the scrot to follow through with the most important part.  I found this pic of old Stan during that hearing, contemplating some of his fellow Khans immediately after that speech:



 

For some reason, this is what immediately popped into my head when I read "Revival Trials."

[rebs]

Actually, when I read that, I interpreted it as Ulric essentially going, "Well, you tried to warn them, I will work so they see the error of their ways, and THEN we can do it correctly, like you guys want."  I kinda think that he may have been a student of the Adders, and (weird Jantern Logic) being sort of a middle ground between Warden/Crusader.  I think he may have supported conquering the Inner Sphere in private (which the party line was against), but essentially, for the Inner Sphere's own good.  Almost like the Vipers, except a little saner, maybe?

I see your point.  And Ulric's own motives and deeper thought processes are most certainly not known, except for what he chose to reveal.

My interpretation of Cassius N'Buta's speech in Revival Trials was Ulric knew the Adder plan would in fact work well, and so he was glad to let it die because the Crusaders themselves didn't particularly like the Adders and so it would simply not happen if no one else stood up.  Rule of Clan Cool.  Because reasons ideological and a fundamental disagreement about the invasion. 

But that's me.  And of course I respect all takes because this matter is by no means fully defined.

edit:

For some reason, this is what immediately popped into my head when I read "Revival Trials."

I agree with that 110%. 

That was what made me think Ulric would have felt bad for Cassius.  Being laughed at, when N'Buta is one of the smartest people in the room literally. 

Inwardly, at his very core, I think Ulric was really a nice guy who was not allowed to be nice at all due to the world into which he was born. 

[Shadowalker]

The Clans felt that if they reached Terra, the Houses would bow to whomever ruled.  Boy, did they have that one wrong?

[Archangel]

Speaking of using warships,  was there ever any major warship to warship combat between the Clans during all those centuries?

It depends upon your definition of "major".  WarShips were too valuable to risk in heavy (or frequent) combat without a very good reason not to mention very expensive to repair.  Mostly WarShips were engaged in minor skirmishes (convoy raiding, creating an opening so ground forces can land when safcon is denied, etc) but occasionally they were involved in major operations such as the annihilation of Clan Wolverine and the Absorptions of Clan Widowmaker and Mongoose.  In most cases when WarShips engage other WarShips one, or the other, will likely withdraw before taking too much damage.

[WONC]

Actually, when I read that, I interpreted it as Ulric essentially going, "Well, you tried to warn them, I will work so they see the error of their ways, and THEN we can do it correctly, like you guys want."  I kinda think that he may have been a student of the Adders, and (weird Jantern Logic) being sort of a middle ground between Warden/Crusader.  I think he may have supported conquering the Inner Sphere in private (which the party line was against), but essentially, for the Inner Sphere's own good.  Almost like the Vipers, except a little saner, maybe?

Hey now, not every Viper is insane. Just the ones we know anything about.

[victor_shaw]

Well "The Plan" was different to each Clan and each Faction.  :-\

1. Overall Plan as set down by Nicholas Kerensky
 was that the Innersphere was just a macrocosm of the Pentagon worlds, and like the pentagon after they had beaten themselves to a pulp the Clans would swoop in and lift them from the ashes.

Note: there are signs that Kerensky mellowed later and realized he had lost control of the clans 1)The way the wolves outlook changed. 2)The assignment of the Coyotes to protect the genetic heritage of the Clans.

2.Warden Clans
a.To the Wardens the job of the clans was to protect the Innersphere from outside threats (This included the other clans to some of the Wardens.  e.g Wolf)

b.After the first plan failed (The invasion began) the plan turned to reducing the clans impact on the Innersphere as a whole.
  1. pitting the clans against each other.
  2. making sure the stronger clans faced the most powerful houses.
  3. having the Wolfs Dragoons prepare the House
  4.failing all above to be the first to Terra to be Ilclan.

3. Crusader Clans
a. to conquer the Innershpere and bring the defilers of the Starleague under their power.
b. to keep the Wolves from becoming Ilclan (Which they saw as a threat to there first goal)

4. Ilclan- Title that would be bestowed upon the Clan that conquered Terra, and would have proven themselves the true keepers of Kerensky's vision.
   a. this was a way by Kerensky to keep the clans in check, and give them a goal to strive for that did not involve destroying each other.
   b.the original idea was they Ilclan would take control of the Kerensky legacies and its leader would be the Ilkhan for all times.(Just another form of control by giving the clans something else to shoot for.)

Now I'm not going to go into each clans separate Plan since there are as many as there are Clan/factions within clans.

Overall What "The Plan" was or had become is moot since Kerensky died to early to effective lay down more then a guideline.

[Redman]

I have the feeling that an honest clansman reply to this questions would be about this:

"Do we really look like guys with a plan? You know what we are? We're dogs chasing cars. We wouldn't know what to do with one if we caught it! You know, we just... *trial* for things."  >:D

[A. Lurker]

I have the feeling that an honest clansman reply to this questions would be about this:

"Do we really look like guys with a plan? You know what we are? We're dogs chasing cars. We wouldn't know what to do with one if we caught it! You know, we just... *trial* for things."  >:D

...sounds legit. :D

I mean, really. The Clans are ruled by their warriors. People who know growing up that they're going to have a very limited shelf life consisting mainly of being constantly tested and challenged and having to roll with whatever punches may come their way unless they do something suitably awesome to earn themselves an extension, and there are simply only so many Bloodnames to go around...and even the people who do eventually earn one are still a product of this selfsame environment.

Does that sound particularly conducive to developing any significant long-term planning skills along the way to you?  :crazy2:

[mitchberthelson]

My interpretation of Cassius N'Buta's speech in Revival Trials was Ulric knew the Adder plan would in fact work well, and so he was glad to let it die because the Crusaders themselves didn't particularly like the Adders and so it would simply not happen if no one else stood up.  Rule of Clan Cool.  Because reasons ideological and a fundamental disagreement about the invasion. 

But that's me.  And of course I respect all takes because this matter is by no means fully defined.
 

And of course, the Adder plan still has a chance to work on a long enough timeline, now that the idiots are being weeded out, the Inner Sphere is demystified, and the Clans are far less feared as a threat. Now it's time to finish uniting under central leadership, discard what some view the "transitional stage" of the Clans and come back again with the SLDF's old doctrine of "total war" tempered with the Adders' knowledge of "soft power" and the political realities that one needs to deal with when appealing to the lower castes. Add in some refinement of the Watch (especially with the analysis abilities that the Adders never discarded when the Clans were formed) and you're good.

Show up in a new area of the Periphery and work it planet by planet. Let the Scientists offer the carrot ("we'll cure all your diseases and quadruple your crop yields!! Just sign here!) and have the Warriors respond with the good ol' stick when that doesn't work. Let word spread and you'll have neglected backwaters lining up to join....neglected backwaters that you can forge into something real with your tech now that you'll have the natural resources.

Eat the elephant one bite at a time. Let the your ideals pull the Inner Sphere to YOU, not the other way around, while being prepared to stomp anyone who objects too loud. Tough, but fair.

[Sir Chaos]

It depends upon your definition of "major".  WarShips were too valuable to risk in heavy (or frequent) combat without a very good reason not to mention very expensive to repair.  Mostly WarShips were engaged in minor skirmishes (convoy raiding, creating an opening so ground forces can land when safcon is denied, etc) but occasionally they were involved in major operations such as the annihilation of Clan Wolverine and the Absorptions of Clan Widowmaker and Mongoose.  In most cases when WarShips engage other WarShips one, or the other, will likely withdraw before taking too much damage.

I imagine that the typical warship combat between clans, outside the annihilation or absorption of a clans, would be a trial between two warships over the right land troops on a world - if the defender´s warship won, the attacker would withdraw from the system. Safcon would mostly be requested if the attacker didn´t bring a warship (the subject of many minor trials is no doubt too trivial to justify deploying a warship for), and would mostly be granted (or offered by the defender) if the defender is confident of being able to beat the attacking ground forces, or again if the subject of the trial is too trivial to risk damage to a warship.

Like you say, the beaten ship will withdraw if taking too much damage - and most likely, unless we´re talking about hated rival clans, the focus of warship combat would be on immobilizing the enemy warship and then taking it as isorla, not in destroying it. Taking an enemy warship as isorla must be a massive boost to a commander´s prestige.