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Author Topic: WOB Jihad - The Plan?  (Read 30566 times)

Louie N

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WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« on: 30 April 2015, 00:23:58 »
Adm. Painter: "Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan."

Having finished my trek through the Dark age fiction and source books; I now go back to a time period I had skipped over, the WOB Jihad.

Going through the Dawn source book my one basic question is...

What was the plan? What was the end desired result?  Was it a new IS "world" order centered around the WOB protectorate with all the houses broken? 

If the Master and his minions knew everything about everyone were they really caught off guard by the withdraw of the Lyran Alliance and The Federated Suns?  I doubt those were spot decisions made my Peter and Yvonne on the conference room floor. 

Did the Master know it was coming and used the event to push the "soft and cuddly" members of the WOB to his side of the fence.  Did the Star League breakup, part 2, push the moderate faction of WOB to believe only war could bring about the prophesized 3rd transfer of power?

Inquiring minds want to know.  Do you have the answers, or random speculation.  Either is good.

Thanks


Greywind

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #1 on: 30 April 2015, 00:45:29 »

HABeas2

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #2 on: 30 April 2015, 00:46:34 »
Yup. I have the answers. But honestly, it's buried in several sourcebooks as it is, and has even been fully described a few times (possibly even by myself) on these forums.

The bottom line, though? Dawn of the Jihad will not tell you any of it; the war starts pretty much via a series of very unfortunate events that proceed to "get worse from there" several times before anyone regains control of the crazy train. By then, of course, it's just very, VERY bloody damage control.

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marauder648

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #3 on: 30 April 2015, 02:06:04 »
Thing is the plan seems to be this.

Third Passing of Power or what ever it was called Happens.
????
Profit!

What happened was this

The thing didn't happen
*NUCLEAR HISSY FIT*
???
???
???
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Deadborder

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #4 on: 30 April 2015, 02:16:17 »
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ColBosch

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #5 on: 30 April 2015, 04:31:58 »
What was the plan? What was the end desired result?  Was it a new IS "world" order centered around the WOB protectorate with all the houses broken? 

The original plan revolved around the Third Peaceful Transfer. The First was the original Star League. The Second was the recreation of the Star League in the face of the Clan threat. The Third would've been the elevation of the Word of Blake - or, as they preferred to be called, the True ComStar - to an equal member of the Star League Council. They did not initially intend on the Jihad (by the way, that wasn't their name for the conflict, but was instead a bit of "yellow" journalism). The Word of Blake had meant to unveil the Shadow Divisions as a gift to the SLDF, a powerful force meant to overwhelm the remainder of the Clans. With their forces leading the way to destroy the traitorous SLDF-in-Exile and the Chaos March transformed into a peaceful Protectorate, the Word of Blake would've guided the people of the Successor States forward into a brave new age.

It was not a perfectly rational plan, but that was the idea.

When the Capellan Confederation snubbed the final Whitting Conference, the Word of Blake felt betrayed, but had known it was coming (after all, Sun-Tzu didn't even bother showing up). They had already set plans in motion to punish the Liao state for this insult, which is why the Capellans were hit the hardest in the opening stages of the Jihad. The Steiner-Davions withdrawing from the Star League was, however, unforeseen. This was a sudden shock, especially as the Word had actually given covert assistance to Victor Steiner-Davion (the destruction of Katrina's WarShips right before a major battle, for example). The commanders of the WoB fleets sent to New Avalon and Tharkad - which had been meant as gifts for the two nations to help rebuild after their civil war - over-reacted and chose to lash out angrily. The orbital bombardment of Tharkad led to unintentional tragedy when the shots managed to cause a massive (non-atomic, though it did scatter radioactive fallout) explosion at their primary power plant.

Like many cults, once their prophecies failed the Blakists faced a hard decision: admit that it was all a bunch of BS, or continue to take their anger out at those who had betrayed them. The Blakists struck hard and fast at the three states that caused the failure of the Star League: the Federated Suns, the Capellan Confederation, and the Lyran Alliance. In the Draconis Combine they actually worked against the Black Dragons to help preserve the ruling line (Theodore had been a Star Lord, after all). The Cappies and Davions were pushed to open warfare, especially after the bombardment of Sian and evident death of Sun-Tzu Liao. The Free Worlds League surged across the Lyran border, even as the Protectorate finally went on the offensive to recapture all the old Terran Hegemony worlds. Meanwhile, ComStar was forced out of Rasalhague and horrific weapons of mass destruction were readied for use. The Word might have justified the "Jihad" to themselves by thinking they hadn't started it, but they knew the lengths they'd have to go to even have a hope of winning.

(One side note: the vendetta against Wolf's Dragoons and the scouring of Outreach were not, strictly, events related to the Jihad. The Word had always hated the Dragoons for their Clan origins, and the mercenaries had been working actively to foil their plans in the Chaos March. Even without the Jihad, Outreach would've burned.)

You always have to keep in mind that Thomas Marik - the real one, called the Master by the Manei Domini - was truly insane. His schemes may have borne fruit, had he not hidden them all away. The Word of Blake was so intent on not spoiling the surprise of the Shadow Divisions that they couldn't even hint at their existence, not even when it meant the failure of their prophecies. The institution was too centered around the Master's cult of personality to even consider a different course of action, and the hard core believers - the Manei Domini cyborgs, the Sixth of June saboteurs, etc. - had no problem switching gears when his orders went from "give them gifts" to "punish them all." He was so self-assured of his own correctness that even as Devlin Stone finished conquering the Protectorate, even as the Regulan warheads began falling, the Master viewed it all as the culmination of his prophecies and plans.

The Master thought he'd light the Inner Sphere on fire once his fever dreams were repudiated, and he did...for a time. But instead of the great powers finally destroying themselves in an orgy of violence, the Republic of the Sphere was born. For the first time in centuries the Successor States stopped, looked around, and decided that maybe they could give this "peace" thing a bit of a go. It was all bullshit, of course, as there were several wars during the Republic Era, but nothing like what had come before.

Now, we are left with one final question: who triggered Gray Monday, in 3132? And why? Nobody (outside of the core developers) knows, and maybe that is where we'll find the last act of the Word of Blake.
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Frabby

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #6 on: 30 April 2015, 04:45:04 »
Serious answer: There was no plan. The Jihad started as a misunderstanding/accident that put the spark to the proverbial powder keg; the situation spun ouf of control in no time from there.

From my understanding, the timeline goes something like this:

- Battle of Tukayyid leaves Comguards and the entire organisation severely bloodied, shell-shocked and polarized between the fundamentalist religious zealots and the realists. Waterly's Operation Scorpion and Focht's subsequent coup rip ComStar apart along this fault line and the former split off as the Word of Blake and relocates into the FWL, taking with them the greater share of the Comguards, ROM, and special projects like the Hidden Five. A low-level civil war between ComStar and WoB ensues. When WoB conquers Terra and tries to settle the Chaos March, Wolf's Dragoons, for lack of anything better to do, form the AMC and oppose them militarily.
By and large the WoB is ignored though by the IS as a whole in the form of the new Star League and even ComStar (to the point of postponing the recapture of Terra) as their attention is focused on Operations Serpent and Bulldog and later the FedCom Civil War.

- Fourth Whitting Conference. With the civil war over the new Star League considers accepting WoB as a member. There is much rejoicing among WoB, who feel it is their destiny to become the Star League's shock troops against the Clans with their secret WarShip fleet, new weapons and augmented superwarriors from the Hidden Five. On the eve of the conference, this hidden army is set up to parade before the Star League as a surprise gift and then go kick Clan butt.

- Conference goes south, Star League is disbanded. WoB leaders are confused and feel betrayed by fate. The Master tells Precentor Martial Cameron St. Jamais to "make them see reason".
When all you have is a hammer, all problems start looking like nails of course.

First Ooopsie: Hardliner St. Jamais, in his overblown zealot ego, thinks he was ordered to force the Star League back together. High-ranking WoB Precentor William Blane, who was reasonable and could have stopped St. Jamais, is murdered (spaced over Tharkad) and WoB's parade fleets become siege fleets to threaten the disbanding Star League.

Second Ooopsie: The ramshackle lostech reactor on Tharkad isn't up to a friendly nudge from the WoB WarShips (it was really only meant as a shot across the bow, more or less) and goes boom. Which gives the overall impression that the WoB not only orbital-bombarded, but outright nuked Tharkad. Out of the window goes any chance for salvaging the situation; WoB from now on is in an all-out war against essentially everybody else who are collectively out to kill them.

Third Ooopsie: In the general chaos and mayhem, the Successor States fall back into their old behaviours in a kneejerk reaction and resume their long-standing feuds, only this time they're smart enough to use false-flag operations. This exacerbates the overall confusion, and most people assume anything that goes down is the WoB's doing, vilifying them further.

- With their back against the wall and the entire Inner Sphere bound to kill them, WoB fights the Jihad as actually a defensive action to preserve their very existence.
« Last Edit: 30 April 2015, 05:02:39 by Frabby »
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Frabby

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #7 on: 30 April 2015, 04:52:32 »
Good writeup ColBosch - I think our summaries complement each other nicely, though you went into a bit more depth.

I think it can't be stressed enough that the WoB knew right from the start that they would have to "win" this Jihad conflict they accidentially started or be doomed. Even while still on the offensive, the WoB fought for their very lives in a Victory or Death situation.

Minor point, since you mentioned it first: The private war between WoB and Wolf's Dragoons began with the formation of the AMC and culminated in the scouring of Outreach and the ill-fated AMC attack on Mars. You could say WoB won that war.
It was not technically part of the Jihad though, just something that went down immediately before the fateful Fourth Whitting Conference.
It did have an impact on the Jihad insofar as the Dragoons (specifically Zeta Battalion I seem to recall) actually came within striking distance of The Master on Mars before being destroyed, though they never knew that. I think this was the impetus for The Master to leave Mars and for WoB as a whole to adopt a fortress mindset, heavily fortifying their entrenched positions while relying largely on stealth and subterfuge in their operations elsewhere.

Edit: It just occurs to me that the whole issue could perhaps be worded thusly: The hidden super-army that ComStar had been raising specifically to counter the Clans for two centuries showed up late to the party - seventeen (!) years after Tukayyid. They were eager to rock'n roll but the war they had been made for was over. So they gingerly jumped at the chance to start a new war to fight in... only to find that this new war, the Jihad, was a chaotic, underhanded brawl they were poorly trained and equipped to fight in.
« Last Edit: 30 April 2015, 05:46:22 by Frabby »
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Maelwys

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #8 on: 30 April 2015, 07:07:32 »
As others have said, the Jihad wasn't planned.

Basically when the 2nd Star League disbanded, and St. Jamais screwed up and accidentally blew up parts of Tharkad, the WoB started activating contingency plans that were never supposed to go off all at the same time, and they were never really able to get ahead of everything for a comprehensive overall plan.

mbear

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #9 on: 30 April 2015, 08:30:16 »
(One side note: the vendetta against Wolf's Dragoons and the scouring of Outreach were not, strictly, events related to the Jihad. The Word had always hated the Dragoons for their Clan origins, and the mercenaries had been working actively to foil their plans in the Chaos March. Even without the Jihad, Outreach would've burned.)
Which raises a question in my mind: Did the Word hate the Dragoons more for their opposition in the Chaos March than their Clan origins? After all, the Wolves-in-Exile and Nova Cats weren't hit as hard by the Word, and they're honest-to-Blake Clan forces! (Though maybe the Word saw them as "good" Clans?)

HABeas2

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #10 on: 30 April 2015, 09:01:17 »
Which raises a question in my mind: Did the Word hate the Dragoons more for their opposition in the Chaos March than their Clan origins? After all, the Wolves-in-Exile and Nova Cats weren't hit as hard by the Word, and they're honest-to-Blake Clan forces! (Though maybe the Word saw them as "good" Clans?)

There was way more than hatred there. The 'Goons, despite their protests of loyalty to the Sphere, were so Clan that they refused to disclose the path to the Homeworlds or offer much more than moral support to the campaign against Smoke Jaguars. To the minds of the Word of Blake leadership, who envisioned their entry into the Second Star League as the dawn of a new age in Clan-busting, this made them extremely untrustworthy--a threat that would need to be put down for good if their plans were to proceed much farther. Having them literally less than two jumps from Terra didn't help much either.

The trouble was, in an effort to build a coalition of mercs that would be one day needed to "put down" the 'Goons, they couldn't find anyone more willing to take them on than Wayne Waco. The results were... honestly, somewhat predictable. "And then it got worse from there."

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #11 on: 30 April 2015, 09:09:36 »
So here's a bigger question:

What would have happened if the Davions and Steiners had stayed with the Star League, and simply replaced the CapCon with the Blakists?  Both in the initial plan, and the very likely path of actions the characters we know would have taken?

HABeas2

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #12 on: 30 April 2015, 09:11:14 »
So here's a bigger question:

What would have happened if the Davions and Steiners had stayed with the Star League, and simply replaced the CapCon with the Blakists?  Both in the initial plan, and the very likely path of actions the characters we know would have taken?

We may never know. The WoB's original plan was a complete Clan genocide, though.

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Empyrus

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #13 on: 30 April 2015, 09:29:26 »
We may never know. The WoB's original plan was a complete Clan genocide, though.

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Somehow, i doubt the Successor States would have agreed with that. The Lyrans and Dracs certainly don't like the Clans but i doubt even they'd agree with a genocide.

How come the WoB hates the Clans anyway? Never figured that out... is it because they feel the SLDF betrayed the Inner Sphere by running away?

ocherstone

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #14 on: 30 April 2015, 11:13:32 »
[quote author=Empyrus link=topic=46146.msg1063485#msg1063485 date=1430400566

How come the WoB hates the Clans anyway? Never figured that out... is it because they feel the SLDF betrayed the Inner Sphere by running away?
[/quote]

I got the feeling Blake felt betrayed by Kerensky about Exodus. Add to the perversion of the SLDF, and both organizations say they're the last vestiges of the Star League,  they get put on a collision course. Plus both need Terra as their home, and sharing is out of the question...

Frabby

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #15 on: 30 April 2015, 11:16:39 »
Somehow, i doubt the Successor States would have agreed with that. The Lyrans and Dracs certainly don't like the Clans but i doubt even they'd agree with a genocide.

How come the WoB hates the Clans anyway? Never figured that out... is it because they feel the SLDF betrayed the Inner Sphere by running away?
Probably because the upper echelons of ComStar were being run by Clan Wolverine descendants for the longest time, who had a first-hand account of Nicholas Kerensky's double standards and what a danger the Clans really posed - culturally more so than militarily. Or simply had an axe to grind, keeping a grudge for two centuries in the best of IS traditions.
Remember that the Word of Blake religious whackos only rose to prominence among the disparate WoB during the Gibson guerilla war that silenced the more moderate elements.
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Louie N

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #16 on: 30 April 2015, 11:26:50 »
Thanks for the replies. 

Herb after reading through all the Source books will I get a good idea of all this?

Also, if you have links to some of those earlier forum post that would be very insightful.

I am still surprised that a force created to fight the Clans saw very little action against their intended target. 

Even with the fall of the 2nd star League WOB could have worked with Lyan Alliance and the Draconis Combine to wage war against the clans.  Such an action might have moved those Houses deeper into WOBs camp. 

But if this fictional universe was filled with rational thought where would the story be.  ;)

Thanks
« Last Edit: 30 April 2015, 12:55:46 by Louie N »

Empyrus

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #17 on: 30 April 2015, 12:29:29 »
Probably because the upper echelons of ComStar were being run by Clan Wolverine descendants for the longest time, who had a first-hand account of Nicholas Kerensky's double standards and what a danger the Clans really posed - culturally more so than militarily. Or simply had an axe to grind, keeping a grudge for two centuries in the best of IS traditions.
Remember that the Word of Blake religious whackos only rose to prominence among the disparate WoB during the Gibson guerilla war that silenced the more moderate elements.
The existence of the "Blood" (that was what the supposed Wolverine remnants was called, right?) is merely a canon rumor, though it certainly would explain the WoB's hate of the Clans, because otherwise the reasons for that are slightly nebulous. I mean, they're conquerors with alien habits and many (rightly?) hate them, but don't think anyone else exhibited such genocidal hate for the Clans.

Gäiten

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #18 on: 30 April 2015, 12:38:36 »
Seeing how amateurish WoB did the Jihahd, could they have been successful in annihilating the Cölans, in the IS and on the Homeworlds?
Did they have reliable data from all the Homeworlds to plan such a huge interstellar military operation?

HABeas2

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #19 on: 30 April 2015, 12:46:13 »
Herb after reading through all the Source books will I get a good idea of all this?

Yup! It's buried in some degree of confusion and innuendo, because unlike other sourcebooks, the Jihad was presented in an "as-it-happens" format, to better emphasize the confusion that runs so rampant throughout (imagine a sourcebook where most of the explanations for why and how something happened have to use "somehow", "inexplicably", "surprised", and "confused" practically every few sentences? That would read terribly! Plus, we were kind of building the timeline as we went, adding as many interesting sub-plots and developments as we reasonably could, to show folks just how bad things could get), but each volume after Dawn also includes a historical timeline review that clarifies the events of the previous books.

Remember also, that aside from core rulebooks, every other sourcebook in the BT universe comes from someone's in-character perspective, so with even ComStar's once-omniscient perspective compromised, a great number of these volumes contain perspectives from others, trying to analyze and make sense of everything in a chaotic time. Though there is a lot of flotsam and false positives, in the mix, we did endeavor to keep the "outright lies" to a minimum, so yeah, you'll find the answers in those books. And the source for those answers may even surprise you.

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ColBosch

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #20 on: 30 April 2015, 13:39:03 »
Which raises a question in my mind: Did the Word hate the Dragoons more for their opposition in the Chaos March than their Clan origins? After all, the Wolves-in-Exile and Nova Cats weren't hit as hard by the Word, and they're honest-to-Blake Clan forces! (Though maybe the Word saw them as "good" Clans?)

As Herb said, the Dragoons were barely involved in the "Twilight of the Clans" actions...probably because they were so busy trying to fight the Word of Blake. The Cats and Exiled Wolves, however, did fight alongside the new SLDF. Even then, the Word did try to nuke Arc Royal later in the Jihad, though that was likely more an attempt to just take out a pocket of powerful adversaries. Keep in mind that while the Dragoons' actions were perfectly justifiable in hindsight, and from an out-of-universe perspective, at the time they were just a bunch of mercs engaging in a vendetta against a sovereign state.

Seeing how amateurish WoB did the Jihahd, could they have been successful in annihilating the Cölans, in the IS and on the Homeworlds?
Did they have reliable data from all the Homeworlds to plan such a huge interstellar military operation?

Canonically uncertain, and as it falls under "alternate universe" at this point we'll never know. From an out-of-universe perspective, I doubt they ever would've taken that course with the storyline. Better to tell a new sort of war story - the over-arching Jihad - then to just repeat the Twilight of the Clans series, only bigger.

Probably because the upper echelons of ComStar were being run by Clan Wolverine descendants for the longest time...

Current evidence seems to point to Uncle Chandy's "discovery" of the Blood being an outright fabrication meant to incite the Clans into directly fighting the Word of Blake. The Bears, for example, never did seem to find any genetic evidence of Wolverine "pollution," even among the Manei Domini. That said, the Word of Blake did seem to really have a thing for destroying those investigating the Wolverines... On the gripping hand, for a Sphere-wide organization that had centuries to prepare for the return of the SLDF-in-Exile, ComStar did a crappy job of it.

On a further note, the Word of Blake was very much driven (from the top, anyways) by Thomas Marik's ideals and prophecies. Whatever ComStar was between the supposed return of Clan Wolverine and the Schism is almost irrelevant. By 3067 the leadership was pretty much either indoctrinated or eliminated (but see below).

Basically when the 2nd Star League disbanded, and St. Jamais screwed up and accidentally blew up parts of Tharkad, the WoB started activating contingency plans that were never supposed to go off all at the same time, and they were never really able to get ahead of everything for a comprehensive overall plan.

One big thing to remember is that most of the Word of Blake were fully moderate in their opinions. That is, your average grunt - or even officer - had signed on either because they believed in the "writings" of Jerome Blake, or to help liberate those they saw as being oppressed by the Successor Lords. Others fought out of patriotism (for Terra), for money (the Word employed large numbers of mercs), or for any other reason people are compelled - good and bad - to bring arms against another. Not even the Blakist leadership fully bought into the "Third Transfer" nonsense; St. Jamais himself seems to have repudiated it at the end.

As you read through the Jihad sourcebooks - and I highly recommend doing so, it's a hell of a ride - the pieces really do begin to fall into place and you'll see how the such an apocalyptic conflict really was plausible within the universe. The reading order of the books might not be immediately obvious, so here's my suggestion:

Dawn of the Jihad
Jihad Hot Spots: 3070 - this and the above were collected as Blake Ascending
Jihad Hot Spots: 3072
Technical Readout: 3075
Interstellar Players 2: Jihad Conspiracies
Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents
Jihad Hot Spots: 3076
Masters and Minions: The StarCorps Dossiers (optional, but recommended)
Jihad Hot Spots: Terra
Jihad: Final Reckoning

Wars of Reaving covers the Homeworld Clans during this period, but I'd save it for last unless you're a great big Clanhead. Do read it, though! The Society - and the Clans themselves - proved to be far worse than the Word of Blake...
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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #21 on: 30 April 2015, 14:01:33 »
The Society - and the Clans themselves - proved to be far worse than the Word of Blake...

TPTB will have to try hard to top the Manei Domini and New-Shaped Society warrior rats.

IMHO the Manei Domini are top-of-the-art clever villians, so far I can not see how they will be surpassed.

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #22 on: 30 April 2015, 14:12:46 »
TPTB will have to try hard to top the Manei Domini and New-Shaped Society warrior rats.

IMHO the Manei Domini are top-of-the-art clever villians, so far I can not see how they will be surpassed.

Easy. Armies of cybernetically-enhanced clones of Kali Liao.

Admit it. You read that and a chill went up your spine. Give in to the terror.
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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #23 on: 30 April 2015, 14:43:44 »
ColBosch

Thanks for the booklist.  I have most of those but a few were missing. 

I still would have liked to see WOB against the Clans.  The morale dilemma of using Manei Domini as a tool for salvation would have been interesting.  Who would be the "good" guys. 

How did the Sandhurst cadet from the case white fiction series put it..."I know that my side has monsters fighting for it"

Maybe another future Halloween special, 2nd star League does not dissolve what if...

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #24 on: 30 April 2015, 16:11:07 »
Somehow, i doubt the Successor States would have agreed with that. The Lyrans and Dracs certainly don't like the Clans but i doubt even they'd agree with a genocide.

I don't believe that the WoB ever intended to ask permission.  More likely they were intending to go with a fait accompli.  Destroy the Clans then parade their "victory" before the Star League council.

Quote
How come the WoB hates the Clans anyway? Never figured that out... is it because they feel the SLDF betrayed the Inner Sphere by running away?

The Clan invasion upset all of ComStar's long-term plans, led to the death of Primus Waterly and the ComStar split.  Basically the Clans stood between the Word of Blake and their desired goals.  It should be noted that there were varying degrees of hatred among the various factions that made up the Word of Blake.  The MD, who were formed to destroy them, were fanatical in their hatred, while others were less so.  Some hated them because of the losses sustained on the fields of Tukayyid, while others were more pragmatic and simply saw them as a dangerous threat to the long-term goals of the Word of Blake.

Herb after reading through all the Source books will I get a good idea of all this?

Not necessarily.  While you should, some of the actions taken by some of the different leaders/factions/units of the Word of Blake were contradictory to the long-term game plan of the Word of Blake (ex.: the entire Jihad was ignited because of Cameron St. Jamais' hissy fit at Tharkad and Apollyon never forgave him for that) and the various factions were not always following the same script.

Seeing how amateurish WoB did the Jihahd, could they have been successful in annihilating the Cölans, in the IS and on the Homeworlds?
Did they have reliable data from all the Homeworlds to plan such a huge interstellar military operation?

If Cameron St. Jamais hadn't started the Jihad and the Blakist plans gone unnoticed by the Clans (they were in the process of setting up secret forward staging bases only a short distance from the Clans), then they certainly could have crippled the Clans (they probably weren't going to engage in Clan trials after all), possibly even annihilated a couple of them.  As far as destroying ALL of them, it would depend upon how biggest a strike force the Blakists threw against the Clans.  The biggest obstacle likely would have been the Clan WarShips fleets and how to destroy them without stealing the FWLN WarShips fleet (coming up with PWSs capable of taking on those fleets and building sufficient numbers would have taken years).  Unfortunately St. Jamais' hissy fit meant most of their planning was wasted and was likely one of the causes of the split between Apollyon and St. Jamais.
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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #25 on: 30 April 2015, 16:19:28 »
If they went after one clan at a time,  the WS, AS, and ground forces shouldn't have to bad.

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #26 on: 30 April 2015, 16:26:34 »
The original plan revolved around the Third Peaceful Transfer.[/quote\

What ColBosch said. The canonical, very-close-to-completely accurate version (which is similar to what ColBosch just said) is in Jihad Secrets, p. 11-14. It's a short, punchy summary that looks at everything from WoB troop numbers to industries to motivation.

Or you can read Col's version again.
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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #27 on: 30 April 2015, 16:29:20 »
I don't believe that the WoB ever intended to ask permission.  More likely they were intending to go with a fait accompli.  Destroy the Clans then parade their "victory" before the Star League council.
The thing is, the Shadow Divisions alone could not have fought against the Clans, i think, even with the support of liberal use of WMDs. They would have needed way more troops, for garrisons and all. They could not have stripped their Protectorate from its garrisons, probably, so they would have needed support from the Successor States. At least, that's my take on this.

Besides, if they could have done everything without the Star League, why would have they tried to bribe the FedSuns and Lyrans with WarShips? No, i reckon they intended to make it a grand crusade for all of the Inner Sphere, with them leading it.

EDIT OTOH, it seems the WoB had a lot of troops at some points... perhaps they could have done it. But i still think they would have taken all the help they could have, because that would have also partially shielded them. Like, say if the FedSuns had sent forces against the Clans, they could hardly call the WoB genocidal without accusing themselves as well (of course, they could have branded their troops rogues or something but still).
« Last Edit: 30 April 2015, 16:35:05 by Empyrus »

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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #28 on: 30 April 2015, 16:29:59 »
If they went after one clan at a time,  the WS, AS, and ground forces shouldn't have to bad.

That might work for the first Clan or two, but the Clans aren't stupid- they'd quickly adapt to this and 'gang up'. After all, zellbrigen and honor are one thing, but there's no honor to be found in the Manei Domini- so why offer any? Wipe out a couple of Clans, and the remainder would likely become a united front.

...the exception is the invading Clans. Knock out one or two of those Jaguar-style, and the Home Clans might not care enough (or be in a position) to help the Wolves or Falcons. (OK, let's be honest, the Falcons.)
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Re: WOB Jihad - The Plan?
« Reply #29 on: 30 April 2015, 16:48:22 »
They weren't planning on doing it by themselves,  The SD where meant to be 15 or so divisions as part of the forces the WoB planned on contributing to a SL military action against the clans. 

The timing was bad,  LA and FS were not in any shape for a major war after the FCC. 

 

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