’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, if you are hellbent on replacing the saw, might as well slot in a Gauss Rifle.
Still, the saw is kinda part of the striking visuals.
It's kinda odd they didn't manage to build a proper military version, I mean there are Vibroblades that size.
Edit: If you want to keep the visuals, you could actually replace the Saw with a large Vibroblade stylized after a dual-bladed claw. It might be a bit less prolific at chopping wood, however.

[Maingunnery]

I did some experimenting and I found a nice refit.

1. Strip all equipment
2. Change to a 5/8 fuel cell engine
3. Install a Light Gauss Rifle

[A. Lurker]

I suppose the two things the dual saw really has going for it are its ability to clear woods and its 2d6+7 damage against building hexes.

Unless that's specifically what one wants -- and I have to admit there is something about a 'Mech dedicating itself to demolition like that -- it's pretty much pure flavor, and a case could be made that as a "raider" the 'Mech would be better off with its left hand back so it can actually carry off loot and otherwise make itself more generally useful. Could still carry some other and probably lighter physical weapon that doesn't mandate removing the actuator if need be...plus, two punches for 5 damage each (10 with active TSM) aren't exactly something to sneeze at either.

[cavingjan]

The question isn't what else could go on it. The question is what did Bannson have existing manufacturing that wouldn't be noticed by the government. No paper trail is the key thing. No payments outside of his companies.

[Getz]

Restricting myself to only components already used in the design; I'd pull off the dual saw and fit more heatsinks, more armour and more ammo in that order of preference.

[mbear]

This exactly. This thing isn't meant to fight military or even militia units, it's meant to cow civilians and shoot up the police cars that stand between it and a bank vault. Use your real 'mechs to draw off the militia, then send these things in. They trudge up to their target, scare the crap out of everyone with a couple salvos and look all fearsome for the newsies, then they kick in the door to the treasure room so the foot-thugs can loot it. Odds are they'll do this while wearing false colors, so that Bannson can show up a week later with one of his more 'respectable' units, parade into town, and finagle a juicy garrison contract out of the terrorized rubes. Remember, these are folks who grew up during the Pax Stone, so the vast majority of them haven't seen a single BattleMech in their life. Without a proper 'mech to demonstrate how useless they really are, Raiders look terrifying.

My ideal use for this would be a hold the line scenario. The defenders are Bannson's real military forces, trying to hold off the militia or other planetary forces long enough for the raiders to get to their target and bust it open. The attackers are trying to get through that line so they can stomp the Raiders flat, but they have to at least be intact enough when they get there that even the Raiders' pitiful firepower can't hurt them.

Another possible use is where you'd use the Patron SecurityMech. Base security, supply convoy protection, infantry support, anti-vehicle use. If you're playing House Kurita, you might use these in a chain gang mission.

[Weirdo]

I like the Chain Gang idea. Next time some Sandoval launches some raids, respond by dropping psychopaths in Raiders into small towns all across the March.

[Terrace]

This thing is essentially a 3145 version of the Brigand, given the intended role and how cheaply it's made. The Brigand is better, though. IIRC, that thing is made out of stolen parts and is a 25-ton Light that reasonably good for the era.

I can see some pirate group in former Republic territory getting their hands on a company of these things, since they're not really intended to fight other Battlemechs (at least, not without huge casualties).

[gyedid]

I did some experimenting and I found a nice refit.

1. Strip all equipment
2. Change to a 5/8 fuel cell engine
3. Install a Light Gauss Rifle

Are fuel cells also considered military-grade tech during the "Stone Age"?  I can understand not being able to procure or reverse-engineer a fusion engine, but fuel cells should be well-understood technology for the civilian sector by the 3100s.  It would gimp the Raider a lot less than that ICE.  Unless, of course, fuel cells are off-limits too.

cheers,

Gabe

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Fuel cells were readily available during the time period in question, but rules for them were first published in a book that was released well after the Raider had been created.

[A. Lurker]

Are fuel cells also considered military-grade tech during the "Stone Age"?  I can understand not being able to procure or reverse-engineer a fusion engine, but fuel cells should be well-understood technology for the civilian sector by the 3100s.  It would gimp the Raider a lot less than that ICE.  Unless, of course, fuel cells are off-limits too.

cheers,

Gabe

Honestly, I'm not convinced fusion engines should suddenly be super-secret military tech; they've been around too long for that in-universe. There should in fact, I think, be at least one Jihad-era IndustrialMech available in multiple specialized versions (the Jabberwocky) that uses exactly a 200-rated standard fusion plant that'd probably be about perfect for the Raider...

I'd have expected Bannson and his hired engineers to have had a lot more trouble with other parts of proper BattleMech design since that's presumably indeed a more specialized skilled trade, or perhaps with hiding the fact that they were actually manufacturing heavy weapons...but just acquiring or creating a set of working blueprints for building a basic-by-32nd-century-standards power plant? ???

[roosterboy]

They wanted military-grade fusion engines.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Also, it might not have been that Bannson couldn't build working fusion engines; they might have been an item that's much easier for Republic intelligence to track and therefore just have been something that he wasn't able to drop off the back of the truck without it being really suspicious.

[gyedid]

They wanted military-grade fusion engines.

Which means that even a RetroTech 'Mech was beyond their grasp...?  (i.e. not being able to manage even Mackie levels of fusion tech)  Granted, in many ways the Raider is even more retro than the 1st generation BattleMechs and the Jihad-era RetroTech wave.

cheers,

Gabe

[A. Lurker]

They wanted military-grade fusion engines.

Well, at that point we're back to pure fluff, then. I mean, for game purposes there's no meaningful difference between "civilian" and "military" fusion bottles -- if it even meaningfully exists in-universe, it's not reflected in the stats in the slightest. It's not even that modern BattleMechs use "proper" engines while fusion-powered civilian models still toddle around using "primitive" ones or anything like that.

Might as well say the Raider failed because they couldn't secure military-grade fuzzy dice for the cockpit. ;)

[UnLimiTeD]

Hey, those fuzzy dice are no jokes.
The Raider's ones have spikes.

[mbear]

Now that I think about it some more, if you have enough disposable pilots you could pack the field with these things. Let them get off one or two shots that maybe hit an opponent, but serve as bullet sponges to protect your real 'Mechs. While your opponent is busy slicing down these things, your good 'Mechs are pounding the crap out of him.

And it strikes me as being more like the Arbiter. Not great but good enough for what it does...which I guess is get in a fight and die really fast.

[Weirdo]

To sum the Raider up, Bannson looked at the phrase "Life is cheap, battlemechs are expensive" and decided that the second half of the statement was the real problem, not the first. :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Well played. O0

[chanman]

To sum the Raider up, Bannson looked at the phrase "Life is cheap, battlemechs are expensive" and decided that the second half of the statement was the real problem, not the first. :)

You know how the saying goes: "You get what you pay for", and for the operators of the Raider, boy do they ever get it right in the face

[SCC]

Where are the engines for these things coming from? ICE is going out of fashion for vehicles, but there have been some powered by 200's IIRC, but 150's don't ring any bells.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Civilian vehicle manufacturing, most likely.

[SteelRaven]

Civilian vehicle manufacturing, most likely.

Owed by Bannson Unlimited of course.

With the blackout, it's not like Bannson could just buy engines in bulk and still keep it a secret. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same engine used in a unnamed Bannson Built industrial mech.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I thought of this:

Owed by Bannson Unlimited Acme of course.

And now I can't get the image of Wile E Coyote using one of these out of my head.

[A. Lurker]

I thought of this:

And now I can't get the image of Wile E Coyote using one of these out of my head.

Meh, he's never going to catch the RD-1R in this one, either. :)

[SCC]

Civilian vehicle manufacturing, most likely.

Um, what? These things are using military grade engines, plants would have to be retooled to make them, and retooled at LOT at rather large expense to make something that no one else is going to be interested in buying. Oh, and there's the issue of somehow getting the RotS to sign off on all of this

[SteelRaven]

Oh, and there's the issue of somehow getting the RotS to sign off on all of this

As stated in the fluff, this was all done off the books and in secret so the RotS wouldn't find out.

[gyedid]

And it strikes me as being more like the Arbiter. Not great but good enough for what it does...which I guess is get in a fight and die really fast.

A company of Raiders vs. a company of Arbiters...who would come out on top of that one?

cheers,

Gabe

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Whoever was selling them ammo.

[A. Lurker]

A company of Raiders vs. a company of Arbiters...who would come out on top of that one?

I'd say it would come down to what the objective was. With only a whopping six shots each before running dry, the Arbiters would run out of ammunition long before the Raiders did and as IndustrialMechs couldn't afford to physically mix it up with their opponents (which are fifteen tons heavier each and don't suffer the "make a crit check each time you get hit by a physical attack" problem) afterwards, so in a battle to take the other side down at all costs they'd probably be boned.

Make it a hit-and-run encounter, on the other hand, and the Arbiters' higher base ground speed and ability to move without building up heat for that may just give them enough of an edge to let them inflict more damage than they take in return and retreat in mostly-good order afterwards as well.