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Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II  (Read 8667 times)

Wrangler

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #120 on: 05 June 2015, 11:52:09 »
A company of Raiders vs. a company of Arbiters...who would come out on top of that one?

cheers,

Gabe

I think it's toss up depending which variant is on the field.  Raider Mk II has Rotary 2 that has nice reach to it, while the Arbiters variant with the AC/5 has reach enough to get to the Raider before those dual chain saws start slicing.

My bets is who hits the ammo bin first!  Though as much i find it hard to believe, i think i'd lean on RAC/2 packing Raider. Only because increase crit chance and industrial/commercial armor the Arbiter usually fitted with does take damage well.  Raider has alot of glaring flaws, but it has standard armor.
« Last Edit: 23 March 2019, 22:31:25 by Wrangler »
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A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #121 on: 05 June 2015, 12:19:05 »
Raider has alot of glaring flaws, but it has standard armor.

That part actually makes little difference for two reasons: one, even commercial armor stands up well to 5-point clusters and smaller hits, which is all the Raiders can dish out at range; and two, the Arbiter has "heavy industrial" armor, which is basically just standard plating by another name anyway. The higher chance of inflicting crits on the industrial skeleton underneath is a factor, but you'll have to score a TAC chance or punch through that armor the old-fashioned way first.

And I'd completely overlooked the AC-armed Arbiter variant (I blame it not being included with MegaMek yet). That actually changes the dynamic slightly, since if we're using those instead and they can avoid getting caught at brawling distance they suddenly do have some ammo endurance, plus depending on which Raider models they encounter a weapon that's either more accurate at range or else packs a more concentrated punch than their opposite number's RAC/2 does at fewer heat woes and no risk of jamming. That fight might just end up being one the Arbiters have with some careful management an actual shot at winning.

SteelRaven

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #122 on: 05 June 2015, 13:19:50 »
The Arbiter was purpose built while the Raider would be consider by many as a Boondoggle. The Raider's armor, firepower and TSM does help the Raider preform the same task.

Regardless, both mechs make the Quasit look good :P
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #123 on: 05 June 2015, 13:46:01 »
I just realized a different aspect of the Raider that makes the Dual Saw much more practical. It can cut a road through the forest for all the vehicles to haul off the loot! Or clear a path for the tanks that do the heavy lifting, which is as close combat effective as we're likely to get without some special circumstances. Either way, a Raider makes a very handy force multiplier if you need to avoid the toll booths.
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chanman

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #124 on: 05 June 2015, 13:57:23 »
"Why did you choose to become a Vedette tanker instead of taking the mechwarrior opening?"

"My survival odds are better with the Vedette. Have you SEEN the 'mechs' we've been using?"

cavingjan

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #125 on: 05 June 2015, 22:10:08 »
Quite possibly the Raider may be able to blend in with industrial mechs easier. Or at least be moved into position as part of a work crew.

A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #126 on: 07 June 2015, 06:11:31 »
Quite possibly the Raider may be able to blend in with industrial mechs easier. Or at least be moved into position as part of a work crew.

"I'm totally a WorkMech! No, really! ...Those tubes on my shoulder? Um...demolition charges?"

cavingjan

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #127 on: 07 June 2015, 07:45:32 »
Fake searchlight cover

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #128 on: 07 June 2015, 10:09:25 »
"I'm totally a WorkMech! No, really! ...Those tubes on my shoulder? Um...demolition charges?"

Yeah, and that small moon was equipped with a planetary core sampling device...
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Maingunnery

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #129 on: 07 June 2015, 10:30:21 »
Fake searchlight cover
Lots of.....
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Rage

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #130 on: 07 June 2015, 19:56:32 »
Yeah, and that small moon was equipped with a planetary core sampling device...

Oi! It's not the Empire's fault that someone ended up using Tim Taylor Technology in regards to the core sampler! :P

SteelRaven

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #131 on: 07 June 2015, 20:43:16 »
Considering how many converted and unconverted Indy mechs the small rouge factions happen to still be using in combat role at the time, that's now where near a good idea... but it would be funny.     
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chanman

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #132 on: 07 June 2015, 21:45:23 »
Oi! It's not the Empire's fault that someone ended up using Tim Taylor Technology in regards to the core sampler! :P

The just take a Clan Jaguarish-attitude towards meddlesome intervening crust/ocean/mantle - namely "Get Out the Way..."

Issamuel

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #133 on: 11 June 2015, 07:31:13 »
Alpha Strike S/M for Raider should be 0*.  Alpha Strike S/M/L for Raider Mk II should be 0*.  Changes have been entered, card should update within 24 hours.

Thanks for the update.  :)

For the Raider, and Raider Mk II, I just found my AlphaStrike "trash mob" replacement for the good old Patron PatrolMech PTN-2M  ;D

Guys, out of sheer curiosity since I didn't see it being discussed, how effective would these two units be in a Late Succession War Mad-Max environment in normal Battletech (Not AlphaStrike)?
Issamuel

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #134 on: 11 June 2015, 08:44:31 »
Guys, out of sheer curiosity since I didn't see it being discussed, how effective would these two units be in a Late Succession War Mad-Max environment in normal Battletech (Not AlphaStrike)?

Not very. Okay, the TSM might surprise some opponents since at the time that technology wasn't widely available, but they just don't have the striking power expected of even SW-era 50-tonners, and where fusion engines just pour out extra heat and finally shut down if damaged, internal combustion ones have this tendency to outright explode -- a Raider going down to CT destruction or just having bad luck on an engine damage check before that point is apt to blow up like a firecracker.

Fallen_Raven

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #135 on: 11 June 2015, 09:28:13 »
Guys, out of sheer curiosity since I didn't see it being discussed, how effective would these two units be in a Late Succession War Mad-Max environment in normal Battletech (Not AlphaStrike)?

The MRMs would be a nice surprise for exactly one shot if nobody's familiar with them, so you can get a sucker punch. I think the RAC/2 might come as a surprise the first time, if only because nothing mounted enough ballistic weapons to create that kind of long range suppression fire. But people will quickly notice that you're firing a hail of BBs, and proceed to ignore your shots as they trash you with intro tech. Both possibilities rely on people not being familiar with the equipment. Otherwise the big contribution would be as a sponge to soak up shots.

This isn't to say that the Raider isn't useful in these environments, it's just sitting in the same tier as such luminaries as the Vulcan, the Clint, and the Ostscout. All are very capable when considering their specialization, and all are nearly useless in a straight up slugging match against a Warhammer. Given the Raider's focus on low cost and firepower, they would be useful as a low cost bulking unit for a force of more typical 'mechs of the era.
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Issamuel

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #136 on: 12 June 2015, 22:58:20 »
A. Lurker , Fallen_Raven , thanks for the insightful comments. O0

I find it humorous from an out-of-universe perspective, that the in-universe designers came out with a Mech design that was fully and originally intended to be used in a private army, but due to lack of a fusion engine had to make severe compromises that introtech mechs can tear it apart in-universe.

Admittedly, out-of-universe you can always do your own "refits" to make up for it's weaknesses from it's initial design roots.

Still, with all it's flaws, it is one tough workmech (Errr, subjectively!) that has an odd flavor - at least to me and my gaming table. I like it.

Nice Mech-Of-The-Week GreekFire! Been a lurking fan of your articles even if I do not normally comment - please keep it up!
Issamuel

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #137 on: 12 June 2015, 23:35:07 »
Thanks for the update.  :)

For the Raider, and Raider Mk II, I just found my AlphaStrike "trash mob" replacement for the good old Patron PatrolMech PTN-2M  ;D

Guys, out of sheer curiosity since I didn't see it being discussed, how effective would these two units be in a Late Succession War Mad-Max environment in normal Battletech (Not AlphaStrike)?


Honestly? Most Intro-tech mechs will tear it apart.

Even a Charger or a Urbanmech are more then this thing can handle.

Colt Ward

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #138 on: 13 June 2015, 00:51:11 »
Except that the designs spread beyond Banson.  Liao, granted kissing cousin, and Dragon's Fury both had Raiders of various marks.  Not sure if they showed up in the book the same way or not.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #139 on: 13 June 2015, 01:23:36 »
They also had Industrialmechs with retrofitted missile pods and autocannons.  None of the original factions (except the Highlanders) were official military units so they were forced make do with whatever was available, including turkeys like the Raider.

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kaliban

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #140 on: 25 February 2019, 09:20:19 »
So, if I'm hetzering these, I spring the Raider from an ambush position, use its built up heat and activated TSM to fall back  to a new position, let it cool down and then spring it from ambush again?

Industrial TSM are always on, no heat needed, but it penalizes your to-hit numbers with a +2 in melee.

I have being trying a few Industrial Mechs design. The one more successful is a little 15ton, fuel cell engined, with no TSM for lowest cost. For some 800kcbill, you have light armor, 2 RL-10, 2 MGs and 5/8 speed. It is effective against infantry and light vehicles .
I also tried a 100 ton design with 2 AC20 and a Hatchet for 40dmg (with industrial TSM). It requires a fusion engine to allow jump jet and to be effective as a urban fighter.

Kojak

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #141 on: 26 February 2019, 17:30:14 »
Seeing this thread resurrected just bums me out that GreekFire doesn't come around anymore. That guy was awesome.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #142 on: 27 February 2019, 00:27:30 »
I finally realized something.  The Raider is the Bob Semple of mechs.

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glitterboy2098

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #143 on: 27 February 2019, 01:38:49 »
I finally realized something.  The Raider is the Bob Semple of mechs.
pretty much. where the other Industrial MOD's are good analogs for Technicals, Guntrucks, and other such vehicles, the Raider's rather severe flaws put it into a category of its own.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #144 on: 15 March 2019, 14:03:58 »
I think I missed this article the first time around.  While it's great writing - bravo! - this is indisputably the worst BattleMech design I've ever seen published.  Yes, the Mjolnir is pretty terrible, but at least the Mjolnir doesn't blow up if something with Infernos gives it a stern look and it's fast enough to be at least semi-credible as a scout/spotter, however much you should really avoid using that mace if possible.

pretty much. where the other Industrial MOD's are good analogs for Technicals, Guntrucks, and other such vehicles, the Raider's rather severe flaws put it into a category of its own.

Yeeeeeeep.  The Arbiter - at least the AC/5 variant - is actually not that bad.  It's basically Vedette: The IndustrialMech.  I mean, yeah, Vedettes aren't great, but a lance of them is at least something to use as a cavalry screen and mobile fire support platform.

That's an insult to Hetzers everywhere! :D

Lance-on-lance, I'll take two standard and two LRM or AC/10 Hetzers over two each of the Raider variants, best two out of three.  (The other match, QuikScell quality control means the wheels fall off when the driver swerves to avoid a pothole.)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #145 on: 23 March 2019, 17:41:11 »
It’s interesting, but in alpha strike, the useability of the raider mk I goes up dramatically. Consider the following

Thanks to the Juggernaught role, a lance of raiders can be considered an assault lance, and thus have the demoralizer ability.

Tsm dosn’t care what provides mel. You can have a single spike on the head and get mel. So th dual circ saw gets the benefit for a 4 damage melee in addition for a 10 inch move.

You can score this lance for 60 points if they are skill 5. That is the cost of a single Dire Wolf. A nice low cost option for urban psychologial warfare
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #146 on: 23 March 2019, 17:45:42 »
Yeah, but in Alpha Strike, a lot of dumpster fire mechs become usable.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #147 on: 23 March 2019, 17:46:50 »
Yes, that was my point
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #148 on: Today at 02:29:59 »
Sounds like it's ideal for pirates who want to scare defenders into disarray so they can more easily go after loot.
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