Register Register

Author Topic: The Diamond Shark tank and Sea Fox preserve: Cause somebody has to start it...  (Read 116867 times)

Deadborder

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7080
  • Technical Victory!
    • Elmer Studios Blog
The number one principles of the Sea Foxes is "what's in it for me"

(The number two is "******* love Clantech")
Author of BattleCorps stories Grand Theft Agro and Zero Signal



Whenever you use terms like 'fiat' or 'stupid pills', you render your argument invalid

How to Draw MegaMek Icons the Deadborder Way

Mordegald

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Would this be the place to seek advice on a Diamond Shark/Sea Fox game force? So far I've got one Star that I picked up ages ago, and I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on where to go from there. The Star I've got consists of:

-Piranha
-Solitaire
-Jenner IIC (not strictly sharky I know, I just like Jenners)
-Huntsman (command 'mech)
-Rifleman IIC

The original idea was that the group was a stop-gap arrangement made up of Tukayyid survivors, but the timeline has moved a good deal past that since I got the models. So at this point I'm just looking at a heavier Star of vaguely-sharky/foxy 'mechs. Beyond maybe a Warhammer IIC for the command 'mech, I've got nothing. Any recommendations?

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
Are you looking at playing during the most recent 3145 era? In that case, you should check out the...

-Koshi (Standard)
-Tiburon
-Stalking Spider II
-Black Hawk (Standard)
-Jade Hawk
-Mad Cat mk. IV
-Vulture mk. IV

All from the TRO3145: Mercenaries. Those are new machines that the Foxes produce (except for the Jade Hawk, but since they got their hands on the plans and supply a lot of the parts for it...chances are they have 'em in good quantities).

Then there's the classic stuff that got new variants in RS:NTNU (like the Mad Ct Mk. II, Warhammer IIC, Mad Cat III, Dasher II and Crimson Hawk), a good smattering of classic Omnis per the FM:3145 RATs (like the Hellion, Grendel, Cauldron Born, etc.) and a good number of newer/omni IS designs that they sell (such as the Cadaver, Avalanche, Sunder, etc.)

So yeah, right now as a Fox, you've got a bunch of flexibility. Another thing to keep in mind is all of our military forces attached to our Aimags are A-ranked, so they've got top-notch stuff. It's only our garrison forces for our trading planets that field some of the older, second-line 'Mechs.
« Last Edit: 06 April 2014, 22:44:22 by GreekFire »
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5014
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Mad cat mk ii
Pheonix hawk iic
Mad cat iii
Nova
Blackhawk (different mech)
Vulture iv
Savage wolf
Tiburon
Grendel
Sagitaire
Bloodsomethingorother
Griffin iic
Warhammer iic
Rifleman iic
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
Bloodsomethingorother

Yep, that's pretty much how I feel about the Crimson Hawk  ;D
At least, I hope you're talking about it. >_>

Can you believe I've never even thought about fielding one before? I gotta change that...
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5014
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Yeah that one!  ;D

Same here. If there is something I could say about the rednamedthing its that it definitely exists... and thats something!
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Mordegald

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Thanks! Some of those look really nice. The Sagittaire's a nice surprise; I've always liked the look of it, but for some reason I thought it was particular to the FedSuns. Think I've got some ideas for how to proceed now.

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8833
  • Running circles around the competition...
And may the Sharkfoxes scare your players worse than any of those cuddly warm-blooded Clans.   ;) 

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
Thanks! Some of those look really nice. The Sagittaire's a nice surprise; I've always liked the look of it, but for some reason I thought it was particular to the FedSuns. Think I've got some ideas for how to proceed now.

Hrm...I think that might have been a typo for the Solitaire, since I'm not seeing it on the MUL or any of the RATs.

However, this is probably the best era to be playing as the Sea Foxes. Since we're trading with literally everyone in the IS at this point, we can justify fielding nearly anything through trade. A quick look through FM:3145 RATs gives us access to usually faction-unique designs like the Men Shen, Wight, Karhu and Deimos, so I think the Sagittaire would be a-ok.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

Mordegald

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Aw, no official gun-encrusted triangle of doom? Ah well, I suppose being a merchant-heavy Clan has its advantages. Truth be told though, if I'm going to steal an IS 'mech, I'd sooner go for a Berserker. I know melee combat's frowned upon, but hey, nobody gives the Ghost Bears guff for putting claws on their 'mechs.

And more to the point, nobody expects a Clan pilot to challenge them to a 'mech-scale briefcase fight.

One last question; I've toyed with adding battle armor, but there doesn't seem to be a signature Shark Fox design. There's the Undine, but it seems like it was never really fielded after it was won. And I've heard it's a bit...situational. Any pointers there?

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
I find the Undine (Upgrade) to actually not be that bad. It's one of a very few number of Clan designs to use LRMs (only itself and the Gnome have 'em), and it has the mobility of an Elemental and is still able to swarm. All in all, a pretty flexible design.

Unfortunately, our biggest seller kinda...sucks, IMO. We produce the Clan Medium and all of its variants as our main BA export, but it's terrible. I hate it. It's lackluster in every way. Thankfully, we also locally produce the Elemental for our own consumption (and we didn't export them as of 3079) which means that we still consider it to be a pretty darn good BA.

Otherwise it looks like we heavily rely on trade for our BA. Comparing RATs from FM:3085 and FM:3145 shows a huge diversification of models, with stuff coming from every single IS Clan. I'd field Elementals, with maybe a few Clan Medium (ugh..) and then whatever else I wanted, maybe based on which Khanate I'm playing as.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5014
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Clan Sea Fox seems to rely most on the standard elemental armor. I guess if it aint broke dont fix it.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2914
The one you want, and I think the Foxes might make it, is the "Rache" variant of the Clan Medium BA. It ups the armor 10 points, has a pair of OS SRM3s, a MG, and still jumps 4.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5014
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Sadly a Wolf design. :(
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Savage Coyote

  • CamoSpecs
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2822
  • 저는 미술 선생님 입니다.
Sadly a Wolf design. :(

doesn't mean the Shark/Foxes don't make it or have bought/trialed for it by 31xx :)

I'll have to look through it, but the Rache is a beast and IIRC cheaper in BV than the standard Elemental

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5014
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
not represented enough to make it into our Rats. But I'd like to think you are right Sea Fox Coyote Shark
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
The one you want, and I think the Foxes might make it, is the "Rache" variant of the Clan Medium BA. It ups the armor 10 points, has a pair of OS SRM3s, a MG, and still jumps 4.

I did *not* know that the Rache had 10 points of armor, I was going off of Megamek where it mistakenly had 9...that makes it a lot more worthwhile. It's like a slightly different flavor of Elemental now, very nice.

Here's to hoping that we do actually produce the thing. The MUL lists it as Clan General, so that's a good start!
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5014
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
In 3145 it may be extinct. It was produced in old wolf facilities. They have moved and switched their battle armor since then.

Then again I think it is a refit. So perhaps we could do the same refit.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Dreyf

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 185
At one time the Clan Medium was manufactured in three factories and sold to the Ghost Bears and Crusader Wolves.

Ferrosol

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 218
So Diamond Sharks are good at selling things... I'm looking to play a Diamond Shark cluster in my next game but none of them really stand out for me. So can you guys sell me on an interesting cluster.  The game is about 3067ish just in time for the Jihad/reavings to kick off if that helps

Alan Grant

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
Are you looking to play in the Inner Sphere or in the Homeworlds?
A proud member of the Battletech-Mercenaries community...now with a Clan game!

Ferrosol

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 218
Are you looking to play in the Inner Sphere or in the Homeworlds?

Mainly IS but the homeworlds would not be totally out of the question.

Alan Grant

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
Well by mid-Jihad, when the book Masters and Minions was produced...Alpha, Beta and Gamma Galaxies had been sighted in the Inner Sphere. The rest hadn't been seen in a while....meaning they were in the Homeworlds or out in the deep periphery somewhere.

Mid-Jihad, the Sharks gained an enclave on Tukayyid. It was kinda a big deal and that was done by Beta Galaxy's Pearl Skate and the warship Nagasawa.

That Cluster kinda stands out for that reason.

Unfortunately when it comes to the Sharks, they enter the Jihad/WoR era and things get vague for them. We actually know more about their battles in the Homeworlds via the book Wars of Reaving, than we do about their actions in the Inner Sphere, in which they primarily just fight Trials for resources and relatively small enclaves on various worlds. As well as probably securing what they can in the deep periphery.

By FM: 3085 things haven't changed much. Alpha has concentrated on Twycross and its lead Cluster hasn't seen action in 15 years. Beta becomes something of a garrison force on Tukayyid. Gamma was present for the Bloody Tricentennial but walked into a deadly nuke trap. Several other Galaxies do re-emerge but we only get bits and pieces about their condition.

You can potentially use this vagueness to your advantage. Its obvious that the Sharks are trading across the Inner Sphere, as well as attacking targets of opportunity and engaging in small Trials. So you could set up a game that has that Cluster roving the Inner Sphere, engaging in slightly non-canon battles and Trials that might go somewhat unnoticed in the big picture amid the Jihad.

So yeah, if I was going to play a Diamond Shark oriented game in that time period. I'd probably either focus on the Homeworlds, where there is just so much going on. Or I'd probably go with Beta Galaxy's Pearl Skate. A full Cluster which also includes the minor Shark character Jasmine referenced in FM: WC.

« Last Edit: 22 May 2014, 15:55:26 by Alan Grant »
A proud member of the Battletech-Mercenaries community...now with a Clan game!

Archangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5618
Units stationed in the Clan Homeworlds in 3067 but were able to make it to the Inner Sphere:
Alpha Galaxy's 27th Cruiser Cluster
Lambda Spina's Sapphire Skate and the 11th Strike Cluster
Sigma Galaxy's Moonstone Skate and the 23rd Strike Cluster
Zeta Galaxy's 51st Strike Cluster

Units that were in interesting fights (may or may not have survived the Jihad):
Alpha Galaxy's 39th Strike Cluster - first Diamond Shark to encounter Society forces - last stand scenario
Omega Galaxy's Coral Skate and the 57th Combine Assault Cluster - in retaliation for the Draconis Combine's massacre of Clan Diamond Shark citizens on Nykvarn in 3075, they nearly destroyed the 12th and 22nd Dieron Regulars
Zeta Galaxy's 27th Combined Strike and 44th Cruiser Clusters were added to the Coyote's Touman via pre-arranged negotiations/trials in 3070
Detect evil first, smite second and ask questions later.

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1462
I don't have WoR on my but their was the cluster that defended Vinton in the home worlds alongside the newly created Vinton Defense Clusters. Nice Reaving campaign that ended in Merchant Factor Lorenzo's awesome tour of the galaxy to get back

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5014
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
As a Clan Diamond Shark / Clan Sea Fox player I would tell you that the action for the faction does not happen on a grand scale usually.

If you are looking for a good beat em' up campaign then your best bet is the Steel Vipers versus the Diamond Sharks during their Wars of Reavings push. They manage to hold out against, then reverse the Steel Vipers push until they unleash their Leviathan II on the CDS fleet and the Diamond Sharks decide its time to get.

You can also run a 'Trials of Possession' style campaign where you have to defend or engage in various trials in the homeworlds.

Other than that, until they release the 'Operation Revival' information your only other source of good Clan Diamond Shark fights is operation Klondike.

Besides that they generally only fight exclusively in trials. You can play Tukayyid but as a rabid fan myself there is only one scenario that I am interested in when it comes to that.

Clan Sea Fox is the same. They have a successful engagement against Clan Wolf and a small civil war that would be interesting to play on the large scale. But for the most part they do not engage in large scale operations.

My recommendation is this: Post 3100 play as a Clan Sea Fox Warrior Trader. You have a fair degree of autonomy and a very small unit that just goes from world to world in proximity of its own Aimag and does deals and probably occasionally gets in scraps.

Pre-3100 I'd recommend those detachments of Diamond Shark Warrior Merchants who accompanied Merchants into the Inner Sphere while they were trying to make deals secretly. More of a Clan Diamond Shark black ops campaign.

Just remember the Shark Fox hallmarks. Be honorable. Be Clever.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Foxx Ital

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2591
  • Still Clanilicious
Just remember the Shark Fox hallmarks. Be Profitable. Be Clever.
Fixed that for ya  ;)
Clan Ghost Bear:  We may not like you, but you're not bothering us, so you may exist.
"I got 99 problems but using Elementals aint one, if you got battle armor troubles i feel bad for you son"
 If your BA tactics can't be described as shenanigans, you're probably doing it wrong. ^-^ -Weirdo
 <Kojak> Yeah, there's definitely a learning curve with BA, But once you learn how to use 'em well they're addictive,heck, just look at what happened to Foxx ;-)
<Steve_Restless> its YOU who I shouldn't underestimate. I could give you a broom handle and I'd find you sitting on top of the enemy stormcrow, smug surat grin on your face

Bongfu

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 407
  • CO of Baad Brew Company
    • North Texas Battletech
Diamond Shark at heart here looking to build my first star.

Hankyu  Prime   
Grendel Prime    B
Black Hawk Prime       
Ryoken  A   
Fenris Prime

How does that look for something that is post-invasion but pre-Jihad?
« Last Edit: 27 June 2014, 17:10:46 by Bongfu »

wellspring

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1502
I suppose that this question actually hinges upon whether or not there are Shark Foxes besides Rebs and myself. I know that sometimes I see Bergie. Wellspring seems to be well and truly gone, which is a shame.

Hey, guys, I just got back from our holdings in the Chainelane isles. Oh, what's that? You've been there? Well, I've been in other holdings in the Chainelane Isles. Amazing that we missed one another. Definitely haven't been at any secret "off balance sheet asset" of a base somewhere. No way.

What are the Sea Fox opinions about Compassion?

I think it varies within the clan. I feel like there are three themes that run through Shark Fox thinking, with different people emphasizing different themes.

There's the Karen Nagasawa idealistic thread; she was a true believer and I think sometimes in our zeal we forget that the sharks really are true believers, or at least many are at least to some extent. They've had many opportunities to abandon the Clan Way and haven't. It also gives them the ideological confidence to toy with heresy, as they often do. That's the theme that inspires the Sea Fox totem: honor your opponent. In combat or commerce.

Then there's the David Kalasa thread, who at least from what I've read seems like a genuinely nice guy who helps people out when he gets a chance. Their philosophy would be best described as "doing well by doing good"-- and make no mistake, trade helps both partners, builds relationships, bridges differences. Their first priority is their fellow Sea Foxes, of course, but outsiders get a taste of their compassion, too.

Finally, you have the pragmatic Angus Labov theme. Survival and profit, roughly prioritized in that order. A good way to put it is the "Venetians first, Christians second" attitude of medieval Venice. These are the ones who angle for every possible advantage: economic, social, military, political, genetic, intelligence-gathering. It's the Sea Foxes who watched as the three other clans "allied" w/ them in KLONDIKE left them to die, the ones who watched what happened to the Not-Named.

These aren't factions, or even contradictory. They infuse every action that the clan takes. Where there's conflict between threads, they look for ways to satisfy both impulses. But they try to avoid situations where those conflicts happen in the first place. That takes good intelligence-gathering and good planning, something the Foxes have always excelled at.

Say there's a famine on New Dishan. Compassion suggests that the Foxes help. Pragmatism notices that the world has resources the Foxes could use, and Idealism agrees that framing it as trade rather than hand-outs would honor the people of New Dishan. So a CargoShip loaded with food is dispatched with heavy escort, offering to trade for the resource rights. The local warlord tries to seize the food by force. Idealism demands that the escort stomp the warlord flat, and compassion might have a say depending on how bad the warlord is. So they probably will, but what comes next? That depends on pragmatism.

What doesn't happen is dogmatic adherence to Clan traditions, or self-destructive altruism, or ruthless profiteering. If the Shark Foxes do their job, the inhabitants come out alive and grateful, the Foxes make a tidy profit, and the local government is friendly and available for future business. If they decide poorly, they're seen as unclan-like exploitive profiteers. In which case they collect their pay, pack their things, and leave. They're not terribly worried about how others see them except as pure expediency. But I think they do try to do good so they can think well of themselves.

Much like the Star Adders and Cloud Cobras (and to some extent the pre-Vlad Wolves), they have their convictions, but they're not going to be stupid about it. They try to think a few steps ahead rather than driving everything down to an algorithm, slogan, or reflex.

wellspring

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1502
Would this be the place to seek advice on a Diamond Shark/Sea Fox game force?

The original idea was that the group was a stop-gap arrangement made up of Tukayyid survivors, but the timeline has moved a good deal past that since I got the models. So at this point I'm just looking at a heavier Star of vaguely-sharky/foxy 'mechs. Beyond maybe a Warhammer IIC for the command 'mech, I've got nothing. Any recommendations?

Others have suggested Mechs, so I'll let those stand. As for gaming choices, here's what I see as your options:

Post-Tukkayid, the Sharks saw a lot of action-- all in the Homeworlds. With the touman in ruins but lots of territory to defend, the other clans came in. This fighting intensified as other clans left the homeworlds and eventually escalated into the Wars of Possession.

In that scenario, the best gaming option is a BT campaign. Any and all other clans are good aggressors, and you can run a cluster in a Spina Galaxy. Spinas are second-line formations with some second line mechs but also some frontlne omnimech clusters. They are primarily defensive but can also move opportunistically onto the attack. This gives you license to basically use whatever mechs you want in a variety of scenarios, against a variety of opponents. The stakes would be high, but it's still strictly business, and so rather gentlemanly.

The same applies to the Jihad and Wars of Reaving, but the formations are bigger and the fighting more desperate. So Alpha Strike might also work depending on the situation. Whether you're set in the IS or homeworlds, the gloves come off and eye-gouges and groin punches are de rigeur.

After the Jihad/WoR and into the Dark Ages, you might want to consider an RPG campaign, punctuated with occasional BattleTech games. As a warrior-trader, you have license to travel the inner sphere. Lots of scenarios are possible and just about anyone is a possible opponent. Essentially, you've created a mercs campaign-- except that you're hiring yourself, and combat costs are just overhead to be covered by your profits. To me, that screams RPG, and makes for a fun game.

In any era, Shark Foxes also make good villains for your campaign. From the Clan perspective, they're sneaky rules-lawyering evil Capitalists. You can make them either good or terrible in a fight, depending on the tone of the campaign, but if they are good in combat it should come as a surprise (the Sharks do very well in battle but have a reputation as mediocre-- a reputation they kind of cultivate IMO). Play up their bidding practices, demands for collateral on Trials of Possession, and pacifistic cowardice. If your players are IS, then a Sharkfox antagonist should be their worst nightmare: a Clanner who thinks and behaves like a Great House liason officer. Someone who doesn't fall for their zellbrigen tricks and chuckles knowingly at their taunts. He's the equivalent of Shadowrun's Mr. Johnson. Run them the same way you would have run a ComStar villain in 3025.

Hope this helps.

 

Register