Register Register

Author Topic: The Diamond Shark tank and Sea Fox preserve: Cause somebody has to start it...  (Read 120620 times)

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Apparently the Poseidon arcship will be able to hold 500,000 people. Multiply that a few times and add in the Chateleine populations and you've got a decent clan population. Of course, the Sharks aren't asking for planets to settle - they're taking 'em. They've got land in Falcon, Ghost Bear, Nova Cat controlled, Combine, Lyran and FWL space by the 3140s, I think? Then again, I have no clue what goes on in those little holdings they've got everywhere.

They settled a small city of specialists in the Chainelanes in 3070. Then they got cut off by Jan 3073. No matter how good they are at moving people, they cannot move so many millions in 3 years, and without Leviathans. Notice that they only have an outpost at Itabaiana, likewise on Trondheim, another in the Chaine Cluster, an "office" at Halfway and Nykvarn.

Quote
The Poseidon, after conversion, held half a million people. The Sharks/Foxes have planetary holdings where they also have lots of people and industrial facilities.

So? With 25 Aimags, 5 Khanates and 17 worlds, they have a total of 428,670,000 people in the Dark Age. My point has always been that the Sharks had a much lower post-Reaving population to rebuild with, and none of your points have actually rebutted it.

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
Fair enough, it's true that their population must have taken a hurtin' during the WoR. I'm not convinced it's why they went nomad though.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
A major reason is they wanted to be free of Spheroid "Taint". Roaming space on their own instead of settling and intermingling keeps their culture pure.

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
Eh...I dunno. Did the Sharks really buy into that whole "taint" thing as much as the Homeworld Clans did? If they were worried about taint I doubt they'd come up with the Mad Cat III and Koshi II to sell to spheroids at low, low prices.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
They don't react to the concept as violently as the Adders and Vipers, but they do buy into it. Semi Kalasa was the leading critic of migrating to the IS for fear of intermingling cultures and was put in charge of their exodus. She also had a hand in the Labov Project.

The MCIII, Koshi, Black Hawk and Phoenix designs are just cash cows. They haven't seen any problems with it ever since they came up with the Mad Cat II.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 20049
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
I am not sure a cargo Levi could transport more people than a Potemkin . . . especially when the Sharks controlled more Potemkins than Levis ever existed.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
True, but the Potemkins were not only used for transporting people? All the raw materials, goods etc would be competing for space with the people. Besides their own priorities, the Sharks had to honor their various deals with other parties.

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
They don't react to the concept as violently as the Adders and Vipers, but they do buy into it. Semi Kalasa was the leading critic of migrating to the IS for fear of intermingling cultures and was put in charge of their exodus. She also had a hand in the Labov Project.

The MCIII, Koshi, Black Hawk and Phoenix designs are just cash cows. They haven't seen any problems with it ever since they came up with the Mad Cat II.

That's my point. The Sharks see no problems with selling designs to the inner sphere because they don't care about mingling with spheroids. Sure, Kalasa was against the exodus because she didn't want her clan to move away from the ways of the clans, but that doesn't suggest that she bought into the "Taint" idea that was floating around. She just didn't like spheroids and their way of life, that's kind of normal for a clanner.

The Sharks voted against both the Falcons and the Ravens being declared as tainted. The Sharks had way too much to lose by supporting the taint movement, they were a liberal clan dealing with inner sphere and abjured powers both economically and politically. They kept their loose caste system, kept all of their economic and political channels open, and kept their liberal interpretation of zellbringen throughout and after the WoR. There's nothing there that suggests to me that they're worried about taint.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
  • Running circles around the competition...
Tukayyid probably has a lot to do with that.

This. 

The Sharks basically fought a grueling stalemate, dug in to a valley position surrounded by hills, and were subsequently blown to bits by the 3rd Com Guard Army.  Little mention of any type of aerospace involvement on the part of the Crusader Sharks, allowing both premier Galaxies to be destroyed by artillery after several days of grinding.  It was the most lackluster entry for any Clan in that fracas.

The Sharks rebuilt fast enough, but that loss took a long time for them to live down amongst the Clans.
« Last Edit: 18 January 2013, 14:42:01 by rebs »

wellspring

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1502
They settled a small city of specialists in the Chainelanes in 3070. Then they got cut off by Jan 3073. No matter how good they are at moving people, they cannot move so many millions in 3 years, and without Leviathans. Notice that they only have an outpost at Itabaiana, likewise on Trondheim, another in the Chaine Cluster, an "office" at Halfway and Nykvarn.

So? With 25 Aimags, 5 Khanates and 17 worlds, they have a total of 428,670,000 people in the Dark Age. My point has always been that the Sharks had a much lower post-Reaving population to rebuild with, and none of your points have actually rebutted it.

Just for the record, using the timeline in Warriors of Kerensky, the Ghost Bears moved their entire Touman, including civilians and infrastructure, to the Inner Sphere in just under five years. And their pre-relocation population was much higher than that of the Sharks. (Also, we're all SharkFoxes here, we discuss rather than rebut  O:-) )

Potemkins carry about as much cargo as Leviathans, and the Sharks have lots of them. But rather than looking at the WarShips, let's look at conventional JumpShips, because four Behemoths, eight mammoths, or carry as much cargo as either WarShip. And the Sharks have tons of them. They lost 60 45 jumpships at Salonika and still apparently have lots. There were actually almost enough just at that one engagement to have run a command circuit if they'd chosen to do so.

The Sharks had major merchant missions in the IS going back to operation revival, but the new wave of dealings with the IS started in 3061 with the Draconis Combine and 3064 with general merchant missions. Around this time they got their first planets. In late 3068, the Khans decided to relocate the entire clan. They accelerated the already ongoing plans to relocate in 3070. The Sharks lost their last major relocation fleet at Salonika in 3072, but had refugees from Vinton coming in several years after that.

So they had the time and ships to relocate. Not as much as the Ghost Bears, but they also had a larger fleet and fewer civilians to move. It's not a slam dunk that they got most of their civilian population out, but there's also no evidence that they didn't, and the evidence we have suggests that they had the time and capability.

Finally, while Semi's portrait in WoR mentions how she utterly distrusts Spheroids, what about the other stuff? Do you have a reference? It makes sense and is in character for her, but I don't remember reading it anywhere and want to review.

roosterboy

  • Site Maintenance
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5601
  • trapped in a world I never made
My point has always been that the Sharks had a much lower post-Reaving population to rebuild with, and none of your points have actually rebutted it.

If that was your point, you should have expressed it better. Here's what you actually said:
I think the Sharks are really hurting. If they had a large or growing population base after the WoR, they would not have converted to a nomadic lifestyle of basing them on roaming trade fleets.

So, no, your point as expressed here is not simply that they had a much lower post-Reaving population to rebuild with, but that they switched to a nomadic (though it's really only partially nomadic) lifestyle because they had a lower population. And there's no indication that's at all part of their reason for doing so. None.

In a sense, though, you are sort of pointing towards the right direction. The transition wasn't because they had a smaller population, but because they had fewer holdings in the Inner Sphere than other Clans and could not operate in all the markets they desired to operate in from only a small number of locales. So, if your customers can't come to you, you go to your customers. Ergo, nomadic trading fleets!

A major reason is they wanted to be free of Spheroid "Taint". Roaming space on their own instead of settling and intermingling keeps their culture pure.

There's also zero indication of this as any part of their reasons.

Especially since we know they did settle and intermingle. They had enclaves on 14 worlds by 3130 and even if you restrict the discussion to what they had in 3085, they had a couple then too. And it's not like they would have booted everyone of Spheroid ancestry off of the three worlds they've held since the mid 3060s either. No, the Sharks have mingled with Spheroids for decades and will continue to do so. Avoiding "taint" had nothing to do with their cultural transformation.

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
  • Running circles around the competition...
That's my point. The Sharks see no problems with selling designs to the inner sphere because they don't care about mingling with spheroids. Sure, Kalasa was against the exodus because she didn't want her clan to move away from the ways of the clans, but that doesn't suggest that she bought into the "Taint" idea that was floating around. She just didn't like spheroids and their way of life, that's kind of normal for a clanner.

The Sharks voted against both the Falcons and the Ravens being declared as tainted. The Sharks had way too much to lose by supporting the taint movement, they were a liberal clan dealing with inner sphere and abjured powers both economically and politically. They kept their loose caste system, kept all of their economic and political channels open, and kept their liberal interpretation of zellbringen throughout and after the WoR. There's nothing there that suggests to me that they're worried about taint.

If anything, the Sharks believe that the Home Clans are tainted by greed and jealousy, too, and have twisted the Words of Kerensky and Clan Way to their own ends.

Cutting them off is a business decision above all.   They don't want the business right now anyway, and that's been made clear.  Maybe the Imperio or something might go on in Hansa space, but that's just speculation.

I think the Diamond Foxes have always believed that they actually know the will of Kerensky, because Karen Nagasawa was one of his inner circle, ghostwriting for him, as well as writing her own works based on his vision.  In that, they would be a fairly typical Clan, believing they know the truth.  But also, by association with the founder, whatever Karen Nagasawa had to say was pretty much just as important to the Shark Foxes.

We just never cared to make anyone else believe it.   They can believe what they want, economic reality moves forward regardless.  O0 O:-)

StCptMara

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6014
  • Looking for new Adder skin boots
This. 

The Sharks basically fought a grueling stalemate, dug in to a valley position surrounded by hills, and were subsequently blown to bits by the 3rd Com Guard Army.  Little mention of any type of aerospace involvement on the part of the Crusader Sharks, allowing both premier Galaxies to be destroyed by artillery after several days of grinding.  It was the most lackluster entry for any Clan in that fracas.

The Sharks rebuilt fast enough, but that loss took a long time for them to live down amongst the Clans.

You know, a thought: If the Sharks had been hiding strength....what if those two galaxies were actually INTENDED to be wiped out,
to, again, create the illusion that the Sharks were not as strong as they were? It was after Tukkayyid, in fact, that we see the Sharks
starting to do their dealings(small in the beginning) with the IS. Could it be that the Warriors in those galaxies were the ones who
opposed trade with the Inner Sphere? I mean..the designs from the Sharks first seen at Tukkayyid were the Thresher and the Pirahnna, both rather inexpensive designs. If the Sharks used that to clear out a bunch of older 'mechs and surplus equipment they no longer needed, and then PLANNED to put the recall of older warriors after Tukkayyid to begin with....

After all: All the Clans traded with the Sharks. If the other Clans thought the sharks were weak, then the Sharks had advantage in
that for Trial purposes...
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

roosterboy

  • Site Maintenance
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5601
  • trapped in a world I never made
If that were the plan, would both Khans have been there and potentially died there?

wellspring

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1502
You know, a thought: If the Sharks had been hiding strength....what if those two galaxies were actually INTENDED to be wiped out,
to, again, create the illusion that the Sharks were not as strong as they were? It was after Tukkayyid, in fact, that we see the Sharks
starting to do their dealings(small in the beginning) with the IS. Could it be that the Warriors in those galaxies were the ones who
opposed trade with the Inner Sphere? I mean..the designs from the Sharks first seen at Tukkayyid were the Thresher and the Pirahnna, both rather inexpensive designs. If the Sharks used that to clear out a bunch of older 'mechs and surplus equipment they no longer needed, and then PLANNED to put the recall of older warriors after Tukkayyid to begin with....

After all: All the Clans traded with the Sharks. If the other Clans thought the sharks were weak, then the Sharks had advantage in
that for Trial purposes...

Nice theory, but I think the more parsimonious explanation is three words long:

Ian Friggin' Hawker.

Even his last words were brimming with cluelessness. His performance before, during, and after Operation Revival painted the picture of a man who didn't belong in the Khanship but who couldn't be pried loose with a crowbar even after it was blazingly obvious that he was a screw-up anywhere outside a mech cockpit.

Part of the reason that the other clans thought the Sharks had been taken over by their merchants was because Sennet and Labov had to work around him to keep the touman from falling apart entirely. Not being interested in counting coins and reviewing spreadsheets, he focused on plotting with Enrico Dandolo reborn: Asa Taney.

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
  • Running circles around the competition...
You know, a thought: If the Sharks had been hiding strength....what if those two galaxies were actually INTENDED to be wiped out,
to, again, create the illusion that the Sharks were not as strong as they were? It was after Tukkayyid, in fact, that we see the Sharks
starting to do their dealings(small in the beginning) with the IS. Could it be that the Warriors in those galaxies were the ones who
opposed trade with the Inner Sphere? I mean..the designs from the Sharks first seen at Tukkayyid were the Thresher and the Pirahnna, both rather inexpensive designs. If the Sharks used that to clear out a bunch of older 'mechs and surplus equipment they no longer needed, and then PLANNED to put the recall of older warriors after Tukkayyid to begin with....

After all: All the Clans traded with the Sharks. If the other Clans thought the sharks were weak, then the Sharks had advantage in
that for Trial purposes...

The Crusaders had taken control, and then most of them were wiped out.   I can't help but think that the liberal backbone of the Clan among the warriors and in the Merchant caste stood back and were not too upset by their destruction. 

A costly loss, though, and as said by roosterboy, both Khans could have been blasted by Long Tom and Arrow fire pretty easily, so I don't think that killing off all the most annoying Crusaders was their intention...   it was simply the effect.  ;)

It's noted that Khan Hawker's position is increasingly more tenuous after this, sliding downward until his death.

Edit: And I'll never argue against the Shark Foxes using both positions of strength or positions of perceived weakness to their advantage.  That's something they have done often.

« Last Edit: 18 January 2013, 16:51:37 by rebs »

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
  • Running circles around the competition...
Nice theory, but I think the more parsimonious explanation is three words long:

Ian Friggin' Hawker.

Even his last words were brimming with cluelessness. His performance before, during, and after Operation Revival painted the picture of a man who didn't belong in the Khanship but who couldn't be pried loose with a crowbar even after it was blazingly obvious that he was a screw-up anywhere outside a mech cockpit.

Part of the reason that the other clans thought the Sharks had been taken over by their merchants was because Sennet and Labov had to work around him to keep the touman from falling apart entirely. Not being interested in counting coins and reviewing spreadsheets, he focused on plotting with Enrico Dandolo reborn: Asa Taney.

The fluff indicates that the merchants and retired bloodnamed warrior council allowed the Crusaders to take control, in order to harness the energy of these younger warriors toward ensuring that the Sharks were included in the invasion.  It worked after a time and fashion (one thing for sure: they were confident in their Touman, they seemed disapointed to have not made the top 4).

Tukayyid was where the Sharks shed a lot of Crusader zeal.  It was a horrible loss, and expensive in life and machine, but the Diamond Sharks that we know emerge.  People like Labov could predict an outcome like this.   Everything worked out perfectly, and their identity was never subverted by the Crusader cause. 

Sharks will be Foxes, or some such butchering of an old maxim. :)   
« Last Edit: 18 January 2013, 17:37:01 by rebs »

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 20049
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
My point about the Potemkins was not how much cargo they could carry by themselves . . . its how many DS they can strap on.

As for the Sharks at Tukayyid . . . the 'loss of strength' is a farce IMO.  Five clusters were involved, two from Alpha and Gamma with one from Omega.  3rd Shark Regulars (Omega) died saving the pure freeborn units when they had to run, which honestly was a huge political blow to Hawker.  First he was forced due to losing a Trial to include them, then positions them as the DZ reserve to keep them out of any action, then they are rescued by a cluster made up solely of freebirths.  Troops he had moved out of frontline galaxies by decree.  It really broke his power.  Anyway, out of the four escaped clusters, they were able to reform a single one (though why they did not stand the 369th back up is a wonder) which still leaves what . . . five of the eight clusters of two frontline galaxies with Beta, the Spinas and garrison galaxies untouched.

The losses would have been among the Crusaders, units picked by Hawker.  To have the Crusaders who were supposed to prove something get smashed and require rescuing by FREEBIRTHS who they look down on . . . big political earthquake.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

wellspring

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1502
The losses would have been among the Crusaders, units picked by Hawker.  To have the Crusaders who were supposed to prove something get smashed and require rescuing by FREEBIRTHS who they look down on . . . big political earthquake.

You know, all you're saying was already mentioned in the field manuals, but the way you said it really brings home the impact. Everyone probably knew that Hawker was a fool by this point, but after Tukayyid, everyone's saying it. Loudly. No wonder he let Sennet and Labov alone.

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Just for the record, using the timeline in Warriors of Kerensky, the Ghost Bears moved their entire Touman, including civilians and infrastructure, to the Inner Sphere in just under five years. And their pre-relocation population was much higher than that of the Sharks. (Also, we're all SharkFoxes here, we discuss rather than rebut  O:-) )

Finally, while Semi's portrait in WoR mentions how she utterly distrusts Spheroids, what about the other stuff? Do you have a reference? It makes sense and is in character for her, but I don't remember reading it anywhere and want to review.

The Ghost Bears had the advantage of loaning considerable transport assets from the Ravens and the Sharks. I don't see that happening after 3068, when every Clan is scrambling for those. Yes, discussion is much better :)

Yes, the Sharks have an extensive transport fleet, but the loss to the Burrocks, their known usage of Potemkins and other assets to transport massive quantities of war material(the Titanic sinking and the "huge resupply convoys to the Wolves") would cut into the availability of at least a portion of the fleet for evacuating the Homeworlds population.

WoR, P.36
Quote
Khan Sennet knew the future of the Clan lay within the open and rich waters of the Inner Sphere. As the merchant caste continued to spread deeper-along with the Watch-Sennet knew the Clan could not simply remain in the Homeworlds without some of the more stringent Clans taking exception to the Sharks' dealings. Both she and saKhan Labov began making plans to extract the Sharks from the stagnant grip of the Kerensky Cluster, a move that did not meet with the approval of Loremaster Semi Kalasa. Seeing the plan as one of abandoning the ways of Clans, Kalasa fought a determined Trial of Refusal against her Khan. Though Khan Sennet ultimately won, she did recognize the wisdom of her Loremaster and charged her to make sure the Shark extraction would proceed honorably-and quietly.

Her views are much like Andrews and Vlad's concept of "Taint", just not as extreme and not to be met with a violent solution.

That's my point. The Sharks see no problems with selling designs to the inner sphere because they don't care about mingling with spheroids. Sure, Kalasa was against the exodus because she didn't want her clan to move away from the ways of the clans, but that doesn't suggest that she bought into the "Taint" idea that was floating around. She just didn't like spheroids and their way of life, that's kind of normal for a clanner.

The Sharks voted against both the Falcons and the Ravens being declared as tainted.

There's a difference between settling in and mingling with Spheroids versus just acting as arms suppliers. It's just technology and equipment, nothing to do with culture.

I think the Sharks voted like that only as an act of solidarity with fellow Invader Clans.

If that was your point, you should have expressed it better. Here's what you actually said:
So, no, your point as expressed here is not simply that they had a much lower post-Reaving population to rebuild with, but that they switched to a nomadic (though it's really only partially nomadic) lifestyle because they had a lower population. And there's no indication that's at all part of their reason for doing so. None.

In a sense, though, you are sort of pointing towards the right direction. The transition wasn't because they had a smaller population, but because they had fewer holdings in the Inner Sphere than other Clans and could not operate in all the markets they desired to operate in from only a small number of locales. So, if your customers can't come to you, you go to your customers. Ergo, nomadic trading fleets!

There's also zero indication of this as any part of their reasons.

Especially since we know they did settle and intermingle. They had enclaves on 14 worlds by 3130 and even if you restrict the discussion to what they had in 3085, they had a couple then too. And it's not like they would have booted everyone of Spheroid ancestry off of the three worlds they've held since the mid 3060s either. No, the Sharks have mingled with Spheroids for decades and will continue to do so. Avoiding "taint" had nothing to do with their cultural transformation.

Thank you for expressing what i had in mind in a better way.

The preventing intermingling part was just one of the reasons, not the only reason. Of course they won't be forcibly deporting Spheroids off their planets, but all their enclaves and worlds in the Inner Sphere are classified/termed "trading worlds", "warehouse worlds", "trading outposts", "offices", not Occupation Zones/some kind of realm, which suggests that like the imperial powers of the colonial era, there is a segregation between the natives and the newcomers, not integration/intermingling like the Ghost Bears, Snow Ravens, Hell's Horses, and Jade Falcons(to an extent).

Archangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5618
The Ghost Bears had the advantage of loaning considerable transport assets from the Ravens and the Sharks. I don't see that happening after 3068, when every Clan is scrambling for those. Yes, discussion is much better :)

Yes, the Sharks have an extensive transport fleet, but the loss to the Burrocks, their known usage of Potemkins and other assets to transport massive quantities of war material(the Titanic sinking and the "huge resupply convoys to the Wolves") would cut into the availability of at least a portion of the fleet for evacuating the Homeworlds population.

Additionally, the Ghost Bears only moved a portion, a significant portion, but only a portion of the Clan to the Inner Sphere.  They left behind millions of their lower castes as well as several production facilities including Tokasha MechWorks.  If we are talking solely about their Touman and their immediate support elements, then one has to consider that almost 50% of the Clan's Touman was already present in the Inner Sphere.

That said they undoubtedly received assistance from their Snow Raven allies and possibly some from the Diamond Sharks.  The biggest contribution the Sharks made was most likely simply keeping quiet about the Ghost Bears move to the IS.
Detect evil first, smite second and ask questions later.

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
  • Running circles around the competition...
The biggest contribution the Sharks made was most likely simply keeping quiet about the Ghost Bears move to the IS.

...we may or may not have sold them lots of boxes and tape.  And handy little "Welcome Home" packages with candy, fruit and little emergency candles.  :)

I'm pretty sure it was mostly the Ravens who helped, though.  The Ravens and the Bears roll thick like that. 


ArkRoyalRavager

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Additionally, the Ghost Bears only moved a portion, a significant portion, but only a portion of the Clan to the Inner Sphere.  They left behind millions of their lower castes as well as several production facilities including Tokasha MechWorks.  If we are talking solely about their Touman and their immediate support elements, then one has to consider that almost 50% of the Clan's Touman was already present in the Inner Sphere.

That said they undoubtedly received assistance from their Snow Raven allies and possibly some from the Diamond Sharks.  The biggest contribution the Sharks made was most likely simply keeping quiet about the Ghost Bears move to the IS.

That also gives the Ghost Bears a considerable head-start to other Clans making their post-3067 exoduses.

Agreed too, the Ravens would assist the most. That being said, i hope to see a Raven population figure in a future product after the WoR. They must be hurting even worse than the Shark Foxes.

Well, keeping quiet has always been a Shark trait. It's what allows them to build stable relationships with other factions and gain so much.


Archangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5618
Well, keeping quiet has always been a Shark trait. It's what allows them to build stable relationships with other factions and gain so much.

FM: WC does state that the Diamond Sharks felt they owed a debt to the Ghost Bears for Paxon and that they were going to repay the debt through fair trade agreements.
Detect evil first, smite second and ask questions later.

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
  • Running circles around the competition...
That's true, and it likely further enticed the Ravens into moving.  They were already looking toward that anyway, but it can't hurt to have the main mercantile Clan already in the IS, assisting your main ally.  With a stable ally like the Ghost Bears in place and prospering in the IS, why stay with the Snake Clans? 

Foxx Ital

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2651
  • Still Clanilicious
Because the snakes have pie and punch. Its the same thing the innersphere used to lure the bears into moving in, all the pie and punch you can munch!
Clan Ghost Bear:  We may not like you, but you're not bothering us, so you may exist.
"I got 99 problems but using Elementals aint one, if you got battle armor troubles i feel bad for you son"
 If your BA tactics can't be described as shenanigans, you're probably doing it wrong. ^-^ -Weirdo
 <Kojak> Yeah, there's definitely a learning curve with BA, But once you learn how to use 'em well they're addictive,heck, just look at what happened to Foxx ;-)
<Steve_Restless> its YOU who I shouldn't underestimate. I could give you a broom handle and I'd find you sitting on top of the enemy stormcrow, smug surat grin on your face

rebs

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
  • Running circles around the competition...
Of course!  The IS had pie and punch... ;D 

idk about the Home Clans, though.  Cornbread and coolaid are not the same things as pie and punch.  Cornbread is all good, but the Home World's supply of it was getting stale.

Foxx Ital

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2651
  • Still Clanilicious
<Cartmen Tseng> "Tell them the innersphere has punch and pie"
<Kyle> "I'm not gonna put that on the chatterweb"
 <Cartmen Tseng> "Do it, if you tell people there will be punch and pie, more people will show up"

 Or thats how i see the discussion the bears were having went. ;D
Clan Ghost Bear:  We may not like you, but you're not bothering us, so you may exist.
"I got 99 problems but using Elementals aint one, if you got battle armor troubles i feel bad for you son"
 If your BA tactics can't be described as shenanigans, you're probably doing it wrong. ^-^ -Weirdo
 <Kojak> Yeah, there's definitely a learning curve with BA, But once you learn how to use 'em well they're addictive,heck, just look at what happened to Foxx ;-)
<Steve_Restless> its YOU who I shouldn't underestimate. I could give you a broom handle and I'd find you sitting on top of the enemy stormcrow, smug surat grin on your face

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 20049
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Whatever happened to Galaxy Commander Bikendi Vewas of Omega Galaxy?  And the two Omega clusters taken by the Bears as Isorla on Nyserta when they got it back?
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
Dunno, but he was either killed or replaced by Blake Hawker by '61. The text in FM:W seems to imply that Hawker replaced Bikendi Vewas immediately after Tukayyid+Nyseta gutted Omega, so Hawker probably died in one of those two conflicts. The remains of the two clusters taken as Isorla were probably folded into one of the 2nd line Ghost Bear Clusters.

I've got a really stupid question, but one that's been bugging me all the same: what have the Sharkfoxes been doing with all the money they're making? They're selling practically everything they can.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0