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Author Topic: The Diamond Shark tank and Sea Fox preserve: Cause somebody has to start it...  (Read 116810 times)

Archangel

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David Kalasa was an admirer of her writings and accepted the post of Sea Fox Khan on the condition that Nagasawa be assigned to Clan Sea Fox.

"Clan Blood Spirit at first contested this request, as Nagasawa had been slated for their Clan, but only as a matter of form.  Though Khan Colleen Schmitt of the Blood Spirits appreciated Nagasawa's work, she had noticed certain progressive leanings that troubled her. For Clan Blood Spirit....Nagasawa represented a potential source of conflict.  Ultimately, the Blood Spirits agreed that Nagasawa belonged in the Sea Fox Clan."  (FM:WC, p57)

However it was not important enough to be mentioned in Operation Klondike.
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jklantern

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David Kalasa was an admirer of her writings and accepted the post of Sea Fox Khan on the condition that Nagasawa be assigned to Clan Sea Fox.

"Clan Blood Spirit at first contested this request, as Nagasawa had been slated for their Clan, but only as a matter of form.  Though Khan Colleen Schmitt of the Blood Spirits appreciated Nagasawa's work, she had noticed certain progressive leanings that troubled her. For Clan Blood Spirit....Nagasawa represented a potential source of conflict.  Ultimately, the Blood Spirits agreed that Nagasawa belonged in the Sea Fox Clan."  (FM:WC, p57)

However it was not important enough to be mentioned in Operation Klondike.

Yep, that's the passage.

(Huh, really?  That's kinda odd, but okay.)
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Alan Grant

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Do we know if Barbara Sennet was a mechwarrior or a pilot?

I always assumed Mechwarrior, but the aero branch conversation got me thinking. FM: WC notes her unit for its ASFs in its mixed command stars, in addition to the standard ASF complement.

I know Sennet is a mechwarrior name, but we've seen plenty of notable examples among the canon universe's notable personalities.

The art we have of her makes her kinda look like a pilot me.
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Kitsune413

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I'm sure her stats are listed under notable personalities. I'll look it up tomorrow. Midnight launch and early morning tomorrow.
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Archangel

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Barbara Sennet doesn't play a big enough role in the WoR to be listed under notable personages in Wars of Reaving and M&M carefully avoids mentioning her phenotype.
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roosterboy

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ER3052 has Sennet in front of a 'Mech in her portrait and the RPG rules section says she's a MechWarrior.

ArcaneRaven

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Can anyone tell me where to find descriptions or even pics of Sea Fox rank insignias? Or do the foxes keep the shark insignias?

wellspring

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I'm not sure if anything came out subsequently, but FM:WC mentions that the changes from fox to shark were minimal. Lacking further information, I'd stay very close to the Diamond Shark insignia and uniforms (which are quite fetching anyway).

jklantern

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So, what do you guys consider to be, like, THE Diamond Shark/Sea Fox Mech?  The one that, without which, they REALLY aren't the Sharkfoxes.  Because y'know, the Falcons aren't really the Falcons without Summoners, and what is a Bear Unit without an Executioner?
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Jaim Magnus

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Piranha... with the Tiburon  as runner up.
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ArcaneRaven

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I'm not sure if anything came out subsequently, but FM:WC mentions that the changes from fox to shark were minimal. Lacking further information, I'd stay very close to the Diamond Shark insignia and uniforms (which are quite fetching anyway).

I like the uniforms, but I think diamonds and sharks as rank insignias for Clan Sea Fox are not really fitting. And the Clan must have some other insignias, since when the Clan was created there were no diamond sharks.

wellspring

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I like the uniforms, but I think diamonds and sharks as rank insignias for Clan Sea Fox are not really fitting. And the Clan must have some other insignias, since when the Clan was created there were no diamond sharks.

Yeah I just meant borrowing the colors and iconography and coming up with something.

So, what do you guys consider to be, like, THE Diamond Shark/Sea Fox Mech?  The one that, without which, they REALLY aren't the Sharkfoxes.  Because y'know, the Falcons aren't really the Falcons without Summoners, and what is a Bear Unit without an Executioner?

Honestly, mechs like the Thresher never really impressed me. There's no real classic sharkfox mech IMO. I do have a secret cackling glee when I see the pirhana, but that's not really an essential in their touman.

Nah, if anything is emblematic of the Diamond Shark / Sea Fox touman, it isn't a particular Mech design, it's the Kerenskies/C-bills/Fox Credits you buy them with. The only design that really jumps out at me isn't a mech, but an aerofighter: the Ammon.

I think part of the problem is that they're not really hung up about adopting someone else's design if it's good-- no case of Not Invented Here Syndrome. And if they come up with something good, they sell the hell out of it to recoup their investment. So nothing uniquely iconic like the Timber Wolf, Mad Dog, Nova Cat, Hellbie etc.

Istal_Devalis

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I'd pick the Tiburon. It's one of the few mechs (The only?) they don't sell to outside forces. So if someone spots one, they KNOW the sharkfoxes are out to play.

GreekFire

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I'd argue that the Grendel is a pretty iconic classic 'Mech for us. Sure, some of the other Clans used them, but never in the same numbers as the Sharks themselves.
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wellspring

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I'd argue that the Grendel is a pretty iconic classic 'Mech for us. Sure, some of the other Clans used them, but never in the same numbers as the Sharks themselves.

You know, I totally forgot about the Grendel. Not exactly iconic, but an excellent mech that I haven't used in a long time and now can't remember why. :)

Alan Grant

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For me its the Thresher, even though they largely sold them off to other Clans.

Typically its been my experience that when a player-made Clan force includes a Thresher, its a kind of shout-out to the Sharks or the force itself is a Clan Diamond Shark force. Otherwise I rarely see them used.

And that isn't a statement about how good or bad the mech is. Just that its the Clan that pops up in my mind when I hear the name. The Piranha comes to mind as well but nobody I know uses it at all, even if they are building a Diamond Shark force.

I'm glad the Sharks/Foxes finally got a real iconic machine in the Tiburon, but for me that's just too new to be iconic as of yet. Mainly because I'm not playing in the new era.

« Last Edit: 30 September 2014, 19:23:28 by Alan Grant »
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wellspring

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I'm glad the Sharks/Foxes finally got a real iconic machine in the Tiburon, but for me that's just too new to be iconic as of yet.

Agree totally w/ this.

Kitsune413

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So, what do you guys consider to be, like, THE Diamond Shark/Sea Fox Mech?  The one that, without which, they REALLY aren't the Sharkfoxes.  Because y'know, the Falcons aren't really the Falcons without Summoners, and what is a Bear Unit without an Executioner?

Clan Sea Fox is pretty fluid. So pinning them down and saying, "this one machine makes them sharkfoxes" kind of goes against their pragmatism.

I have a special spot for Mad Cat mk II's.

But also one of the things about being in a merchant clan is you sell all your stuff. So other than the Tiburon There isn't a machine that only the shark foxes use.
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Diamondshark

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For me, their most iconic mechs are the Mad Cat Mk II and the Ha Otoko. They aren't exclusive to them, and I'm not even sure how often they are fielded. But they "feel" the most SharkFox-ish to me when I use them.
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Alan Grant

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For me, their most iconic mechs are the Mad Cat Mk II and the Ha Otoko. They aren't exclusive to them, and I'm not even sure how often they are fielded. But they "feel" the most SharkFox-ish to me when I use them.

That's a fair point. I do tend to think of those mechs as Shark mechs. Even if they were designed with export in mind. Whether they are the faction fielding them or not you know where they came from.
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Savage Coyote

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Grendel/Tiburon.

Both are fast enough to get into and out of danger that might arise from a deal gone sour.  They are fast enough to grab something and run off with it, and fast enough to quickly and efficiently engage opponents in a timely matter and either press the attack or pull out to conserve resources.

Oh, they also both pack a punch and require finesse to use well.  :D

Kitsune413

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The very first Grinder I ever played was fairly recently. I ran a Tiburon the whole game without taking damage. My comrade in arms made it through with his Mad cat my IV pretty well.

Clan Sea Foxes Warhammer Iic's seem to be their ubiquitous trooper. But they are also a Mad Dog clan. I think those Vulture mk IV's are going to become famous. Rabid Dog is right. Stars of those mechs tear down most opposition.
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rebs

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Totally random inquiry...

Is it safe to say that an OvKhan is actually a higher rank than a Star Colonel?  (But lower than a SaKhan) They appear to be equivalent ranks on paper, but some assets would require a Cluster formation or two or more to defend.  Places like Tukayyid, or Twycross, or Itabiana

So, I imagine that though the Sea Foxes may emphasize mercantilism in the Dark Age and beyond with the Aimag system, they likely still have such pure military formations for very practical reasons.  The rank of Star Colonel would be indispensable.

And perhaps, during emergencies, a Galaxy Commander or two might be necessary.  SaKhan, on paper, appears to be equivalent, but Aimag and Khanate descriptions seem to indicate much larger commands than even a large galaxy in many cases.  Thus prompting my questions about both OvKhan and SaKhan ranks, really.

I'm just wondering.  Trying to form a picture of the rank-relationships, Foxxing style.  O0
« Last Edit: 25 November 2014, 20:35:15 by rebs »

Kitsune413

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Petr Kalasa and particularly his rival Clarke in hunters of the deep have star colonel aids working for them.

An Aimag is supposed to be cluster sized.

But if they were all cluster sized then you wouldn't be surprised when they are more than a cluster, would you?

Same clan whose clusters used to have twice as many Trinaries as the other guys.
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marauder648

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Re the Mad Cat II there's two varians that I do have to wonder about, the II Enhanced, I assume this would have moved beyond being an experimental model and would probably be entering more general service now amongst the Sea Foxes.  Their variant as mentioned on Sarna

Quote
Finally, a Clan Sea Fox refit replaces all of the armament with one EMRG "Galaxy" Series Gauss Rifle, one Series 4D-2 Heavy Large Laser, and one Series 6A Heavy Medium Laser and improved jump jets - Improved Blasters Model X-1 - improving the jump capacity by 50%.

I would also assume would become their main heavy trooper Assault, with the II Enhanced filling out the same kind of role usually taken by a Dire Wolf etc on account of its survivability.
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GreekFire

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Yeah, the OvKhan must definitely be higher ranked. I'd say that they're the equiv. of a senior Star Colonel, with maybe a few even having enough throw weight to be considered Galaxy Commanders. Even if they only have a cluster of troops available to them "on paper", they still control entire aimags. That means a collection of a decent number of dropships, jumpships, a cargoship or two, and probably a decent contingent of aerospace fighters.

Re the Mad Cat II there's two varians that I do have to wonder about, the II Enhanced, I assume this would have moved beyond being an experimental model and would probably be entering more general service now amongst the Sea Foxes.  Their variant as mentioned on Sarna

The II Enhanced has been in full production ever since we first saw it in Prototypes, and is one of the most common Assault Mechs in the collective Clan toumans by 3145. And keep in mind that the refit you're talking about is from the clicky game, and I think it was more/less canonized with the appearance of the Mad Cat II 5.
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marauder648

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Oh blimey, okay I thought because the II-E was due to its experimental nature still a tad rare.
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GreekFire

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Nope! It's one of the nice pieces of technology that the Sharkfoxes have been selling to all buyers...kinda like the Mad Cat III. Man I love that 'Mech.
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marauder648

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Why do I think that when people face the Sharks they will face a tide of Unseen IIC's as well as MANY flavours of Mad Cat.
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rebs

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I'm re-reading Hunters of the Deep, so my questions are finding answers.  O0 

I think I must have been severely depressed (more so than I realized) when I read it, because my memory from page to page is shot.  But I think I'm enjoying the reading more this time, so maybe there really is a reason for everything. 

Petr Kalasa and particularly his rival Clarke in hunters of the deep have star colonel aids working for them.

An Aimag is supposed to be cluster sized.

But if they were all cluster sized then you wouldn't be surprised when they are more than a cluster, would you?

Same clan whose clusters used to have twice as many Trinaries as the other guys.

Yeah, the OvKhan must definitely be higher ranked. I'd say that they're the equiv. of a senior Star Colonel, with maybe a few even having enough throw weight to be considered Galaxy Commanders. Even if they only have a cluster of troops available to them "on paper", they still control entire aimags. That means a collection of a decent number of dropships, jumpships, a cargoship or two, and probably a decent contingent of aerospace fighters.

It struck me that if a strong enough Aimag with plenty of resources - say, one that has been operating for decades and has lots of semi-retired warrior to draw from if needed - could possibly (in theory) recall enough to troops to have its own Galaxy, or at least have multiple Clusters. 

I that case, a Galaxy Commander could be under the command of an OvKhan.  In theory.  Because the new ranks are leadership roles, and not confined to ubiquitous Clan military operational hierarchy, it hit me that this was the intended command structure.

Just wondering out loud.  I knew I could count on my Sea Fox trothkin.  :)
« Last Edit: 28 November 2014, 17:36:33 by rebs »