Author Topic: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?  (Read 38304 times)

Khymerion

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #150 on: 30 August 2015, 04:06:28 »
I would like to have it so that mechs could kneel and go hull down in lvl 1 terrain.   It would restrain torso and leg mounted weaponry but allow for an increase of accuracy with arm mounted and hand held weapons as well as making the mech more difficult to hit or by a custom location chart that has several voids in it where the hill eats the incoming fire instead of the mech.

I would like mechs the be able to purposefully go prone and be able to crawl, thus gaining the ability to actually use lvl 1 terrain to block line of sight and to make use of broken lvl 0 terrain to go hull down like vehicles are able to do.

Steal a concept from aerospace and put a modified version of bracket firing into use for ground forces.   If there are multiple weapons of the same type firing at the same target, they get a bonus to hit modifier based on how many weapons are firing in that group.   Single dice roll but then roll on the appropriate missile chart to see just how many weapons of that type actually hit from the barrage.
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TigerShark

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #151 on: 30 August 2015, 11:10:36 »
I would like to have it so that mechs could kneel and go hull down in lvl 1 terrain.   It would restrain torso and leg mounted weaponry but allow for an increase of accuracy with arm mounted and hand held weapons as well as making the mech more difficult to hit or by a custom location chart that has several voids in it where the hill eats the incoming fire instead of the mech.

That's already a rule. TacOps.
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Khymerion

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #152 on: 30 August 2015, 17:18:35 »
That's already a rule. TacOps.

Thanks... I must have missed it.   I rarely use mechs enough to catch every rule.   Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
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mike19k

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #153 on: 11 September 2015, 11:58:41 »
I would say it's the fact that BattleTech is slowly dying as a result of the bloated, difficult-to-implement rule set and things aren't being play tested. Table top BT is pretty difficult to find. More difficult to find consistently. And even more difficult to find a group which doesn't demand "3025 only."
I am not sure about this, but in my area I do not know of any groups that are playing in 3025 at all.

Gauging the rules by 1980s testing methods doesn't help things move forward. People just flat-out don't play TT as much as the electronic version(s) [questionable whether I'd call MWO a version of BT, but that's another topic]. I don't see a reason to gauge the effectiveness of a rule according to an out-dated mode which is becoming increasingly scarce. Gotta move forward and that's what MegaMek and Alpha Strike attempt to do.
Again at least in my area this is 100% false. I know of three groups that actively play table top, two I play in last have but not much (I am not active with them). Of the two that I play in first one is up to about 12-14 players now, when I started with them we were about six to eight. The second (smaller) one is right now about six players, but at the next game we are supposed to have one more added. To the best of my knowledge none of them play megamek. I do use it a bit, mostly to test things for the table top. Of the ones who know about megamek the main reason that they do not play is two fold, first the dice rolls. You can tell me as much as you want that they are truly random, but when you need threes to hit with all six weapons and roll nothing but two, and in the same turn have three mechs headcaped when only four shots are fired at you that does not pass the smell test. The second one from the only person that I know who has played more than just against the bot, he was saying that the players made him say never again (not first hand experience on this one).

The one thing that I did not see anyone put forward is the AMS. I would kind of go back to the way it was IS roll 1D6 that is how many missiles you shoot down, 2D6 for clan. What I would change is that it can fire as many times per turn as you have ammo, this would keep someone from firing the SRM2/LRM5 to take out the AMS and then using the big launchers. Next I would make it so that you can chain fire them at the same volley, so you have three MRM 40's incoming and your mech has four AMS's on it, you can potentially shoot down up to 24 (48 if clan) of each volley. And last each shot uses one round of ammo, but still makes the one heat. So in the example of the three MRM 40's you would use up one ton of ammo and make 12 heat that you had not planed on but may have saved the mech.

As for the infantry, the issue I see with the mechanized infantry is that I am running around on my quad-runner or whatever and now I jump on a mech (anti-mech attack) the mech runs around for a couple of turns before it shakes me off, and mike quad-runner is now back with me?
« Last Edit: 11 September 2015, 12:39:19 by mike19k »

A. Lurker

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #154 on: 11 September 2015, 12:54:47 »
As for the infantry, the issue I see with the mechanized infantry is that I am running around on my quad-runner or whatever and now I jump on a mech (anti-mech attack) the mech runs around for a couple of turns before it shakes me off, and mike quad-runner is now back with me?

Mechanized infantry can't make anti-'Mech attacks.

Now, motorized infantry can if they're suitably equipped with anti-'Mech gear, and yes, that's kind of weird at best in this sort of situation. It's just an artifact of infantry units being treated as singular blobs with no real "subsystem" resolution whatsoever, though -- one of the points at which the notion of the game as a simulation of in-universe reality simply breaks down because the rules don't support the necessary level of detail.

mike19k

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #155 on: 11 September 2015, 12:59:13 »
Mechanized infantry can't make anti-'Mech attacks.

Now, motorized infantry can if they're suitably equipped with anti-'Mech gear, and yes, that's kind of weird at best in this sort of situation. It's just an artifact of infantry units being treated as singular blobs with no real "subsystem" resolution whatsoever, though -- one of the points at which the notion of the game as a simulation of in-universe reality simply breaks down because the rules don't support the necessary level of detail.

My bad, thanks for the correction. To me there would only be three types of PBI infantry. Foot, Jump, or mechanized. And mechanized have separate transports so really there is just foot or jump with or with out extra transport.

mutantmagnet

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #156 on: 11 September 2015, 12:59:47 »
2 things always bugged me. MASC and ballistics.

MASC is a great item but the failure rate is too short for strategic ops.

Instead of reducing walking MP each MASC failure should reduce Run MP by 1 whether your using MASC or not.

My problem with ballistics is that they hold no practical advantage. Even on the logistics side they're on par with energy weapons with the only thing keeping energy weapons in check is that a critical hit usually leads to destruction. Missiles otoh fair very well against energy weapons under specific and still practical circumstances.

My change to ballistics is to give all of them the following attributes.

-1 modifier to all woods and buildings in the way of your target.

If you don't have line of sight and the only thing between you and the target are woods then you can use indirect firing rules.

Lastly when firing at targets in buildings ballistics get their damage reduced by (construction factor / 20 ) instead of  (construction factor / 10)


This is to give ballistics an in game universe value of having better penetrating abilities than energy and missile weapons.

PurpleDragon

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #157 on: 11 September 2015, 14:15:47 »
Mechanized infantry can't make anti-'Mech attacks.

Now, motorized infantry can if they're suitably equipped with anti-'Mech gear, and yes, that's kind of weird at best in this sort of situation. It's just an artifact of infantry units being treated as singular blobs with no real "subsystem" resolution whatsoever, though -- one of the points at which the notion of the game as a simulation of in-universe reality simply breaks down because the rules don't support the necessary level of detail.
I've actually seen something akin to motorized infantry in training IRL a foreign country.  Two men to a dirt bike.  The driver slows down just enought that the passenger can jump back off his seat and deploy then the driver keeps going.  later, the driver comes back to pick up the passenger.  It was really neat to see.  I just wonder how effective it would be in actual combat. 
 
Honestly, I think the motorized and mechanized infantry are slower than they should be in representation on the board.  I would also break them down into squads then give them a modifier to be hit based on their smaller size. 
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mike19k

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #158 on: 11 September 2015, 22:08:50 »
I've actually seen something akin to motorized infantry in training IRL a foreign country.  Two men to a dirt bike.  The driver slows down just enought that the passenger can jump back off his seat and deploy then the driver keeps going.  later, the driver comes back to pick up the passenger.  It was really neat to see.  I just wonder how effective it would be in actual combat. 
 
Honestly, I think the motorized and mechanized infantry are slower than they should be in representation on the board.  I would also break them down into squads then give them a modifier to be hit based on their smaller size.
This is an interesting thought, if they had a system so that a % of the troops did not take part that could work. Just thinking about this as I type. If one out of every three troops does not participate in the anti-mech attack, to keep it simplistic I would have them "disappear" when the troops were doing something that the vehicle could not and "reappear" after it stopped doing what it was. Just using simple numbers the platoon starts with 21 troops this would give them 14 that could do the anti-mech attack. During the attack they lose four troops, leaving them with ten troops. As so as they are off the mech they get back the five drivers, bringing there strength up to 15 troops for shooting/damage and all that. I could see this working and making some sense, but I think that it is to complex overall and think keeping the transports separate.

garhkal

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #159 on: 11 September 2015, 23:19:50 »
Another rule i was always wanting to see.  Using AC cannons to bracket a mine hex, to set the mines off.  IIRC by the rules only other LRMS can do so.
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Cidwm

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #160 on: 19 September 2015, 14:25:32 »
Squads should have been the default rules for infantry.

I like what others have said about tracking ammo for anti mech/ vehicle weapons in an infantry unit.

I also agree lasers should ignore TTM but would go as far and say that they should be short range weapons.

I would increase the range of the autocannons to make the more viable weapons.

FedComGirl

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #161 on: 22 September 2015, 15:27:05 »
My bad, thanks for the correction. To me there would only be three types of PBI infantry. Foot, Jump, or mechanized. And mechanized have separate transports so really there is just foot or jump with or with out extra transport.

I'd keep the various kinds of infantry only I'd have the ones in vehicles treated like as a cross between battle armor and vehicle units. The vehicles actually have their own stats and weapons and function with vehicle rules but you could possibly stack more per hex than normal.


snip

My problem with ballistics is that they hold no practical advantage. Even on the logistics side they're on par with energy weapons with the only thing keeping energy weapons in check is that a critical hit usually leads to destruction. Missiles otoh fair very well against energy weapons under specific and still practical circumstances.

snip

Actually, they can be lighter than energy weapons, especially on vehicles or lower tech units. Their damage is also more consistent than most missile launchers, so you're not wasting munitions. Their also fewer countermeasures against them then there are against energy and missile weapons. Then there's their alternative munitions. So they do have a purpose. It would be nice to fire them indirectly though. And I like your idea of giving them greater penetrating power against woods. I haven't made up my mind about buildings yet though.


This is an interesting thought, if they had a system so that a % of the troops did not take part that could work. Just thinking about this as I type. If one out of every three troops does not participate in the anti-mech attack, to keep it simplistic I would have them "disappear" when the troops were doing something that the vehicle could not and "reappear" after it stopped doing what it was. Just using simple numbers the platoon starts with 21 troops this would give them 14 that could do the anti-mech attack. During the attack they lose four troops, leaving them with ten troops. As so as they are off the mech they get back the five drivers, bringing there strength up to 15 troops for shooting/damage and all that. I could see this working and making some sense, but I think that it is to complex overall and think keeping the transports separate.
 

I don't know. You've got 7 vehicles trying to swarm a mech so 14 troopers can get off and on again, in 10 seconds? I can see them throwing grenades and satchel charges but not actually climbing on and off. Maybe on a quad or tripod but I'm having trouble picturing it happening with a biped mech. And the losses only come from the troopers jumping onto the mech. What if vehicles get stepped on? There goes 1 trooper and the ride of 2 others. So you really can lose three there with just one vehicle. I'm sure it's doable but it seems overly complicated to me.



beachhead1985

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #162 on: 25 September 2015, 12:55:40 »
The more I think about it, the less and less enamored I am of armour limits at all. It comes across as more or less arbitrary in different unit types, but it's always at least somewhat dubious.

I mean; stuff is stuff, right? 14 ton AC... or 14 tons or armour? whats the difference?
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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #163 on: 26 September 2015, 16:39:43 »
The more I think about it, the less and less enamored I am of armour limits at all. It comes across as more or less arbitrary in different unit types, but it's always at least somewhat dubious.

I mean; stuff is stuff, right? 14 ton AC... or 14 tons or armour? whats the difference?

The armor has to provide enough flexibility and room around the joints for the Mech to still be able to move..  Witness Heavy Armor that imposes a Run speed penalty.  A Large Laser can be mounted almost anywhere along the arm (upper or lower), but the armor has to be mounted in a specific layer pattern to allow the joints to move properly.

But that could allow for other options:
For each full 25% less than the armor maximum, the Mech gets a 1 pt bonus to all Piloting rolls (it is more flexible).  As a comparison, observe how flexible people are in a spandex outfit vs a thick winter coat (but the coat cannot compress).


For infantry, I would allow stacking multiple platoons in a hex, but when a weapon is used in anti-infantry mode, it does its full AI damage to the target platoon, and half damage to each other platoon in the targeted hex.  Presto, a rules effect that encourages infantry to scatter when Mechs get in range.  Infantry platoons on separate levels in a building do not get penalized in this manner, though still take damage from AoE weapons per regular rules.  (So infantry in a city are really nasty because in a 4 level building you can have 1 platoon per level and you have to kill them individually, or just collapse the building.)

massey

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #164 on: 28 September 2015, 11:47:04 »
A lot of the suggestions here are really interesting, but I think there are two different mentalities on display in this thread.

The first leaves Battletech mostly as it is, and offers a few small rules tweaks.  Some people are talking about small changes to the way Battle Value is calculated.  Other changes are much larger, altering some of the basics of the game (like lasers ignoring target movement).  If I'm going to do something like that, I think the whole game engine needs modified.

If I'm going to recreate the entire game, I'm going to try to make it more cinematic, with a lot less record keeping.  Battletech is a fun game, but it definitely has an early 80s design philosophy.  Modern games tend to play a lot faster.  I'd probably make it so that piloting skill rolls let you do something good, rather than avoiding something bad.  Dodge an enemy missile barrage, grab a nearby vehicle and use it as a shield, instead of just not falling down when you get shot a bunch or when you turn on concrete.  The game would focus less on wearing through your opponent's massive plates of armor, and more on outmaneuvering them and catching them with a solid blow.  Only the heaviest of mechs should be able to just stand there and absorb round after round of fire.

I'd like to see a game system where a Wasp can fight a Daishi if the pilot is good enough.  He doesn't just trade fire.  He jumps around, hides behind buildings, catches his enemy from behind, targets weak points in the armor, etc.  The Daishi would certainly have the advantage, but it wouldn't be as unbalanced as it is now.

mike19k

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #165 on: 28 September 2015, 21:46:03 »
...
I'd like to see a game system where a Wasp can fight a Daishi if the pilot is good enough.  He doesn't just trade fire.  He jumps around, hides behind buildings, catches his enemy from behind, targets weak points in the armor, etc.  The Daishi would certainly have the advantage, but it wouldn't be as unbalanced as it is now.

With only two skills (gunnery, and Piloting) difficult to do on the board, but very doable in the RPG.

beachhead1985

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #166 on: 29 September 2015, 20:10:05 »
I'd like to see a game system where a Wasp can fight a Daishi if the pilot is good enough.  He doesn't just trade fire.  He jumps around, hides behind buildings, catches his enemy from behind, targets weak points in the armor, etc.  The Daishi would certainly have the advantage, but it wouldn't be as unbalanced as it is now.

How lucky are you and who else is on your team?

I've done stuff like this with Valkyries against assault mechs, including a custom Daishi before...Didn't win, but kept em bottled up for a while.
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massey

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #167 on: 29 September 2015, 21:12:12 »
How lucky are you and who else is on your team?

I've done stuff like this with Valkyries against assault mechs, including a custom Daishi before...Didn't win, but kept em bottled up for a while.

I'm basically thinking of an entirely different system.  More of a mech dueling game.  So a skilled pilot in a 3025 Wasp goes up against a Daishi, and while he's at a disadvantage (maybe even a big one), if he's good enough he can win.  With no help.

Maybe you're making opposed piloting rolls to dodge enemy attacks.

Think of it more that the mech is just a piece of equipment that the mechwarrior uses.  Yeah, the Daishi is a better weapon, but if a 20th level D&D fighter with a nonmagical club was to match up against a 12th level Fighter with a +5 longsword, your money would be on the 20th level guy.

PurpleDragon

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #168 on: 29 September 2015, 23:23:29 »
I'm basically thinking of an entirely different system.  More of a mech dueling game.  So a skilled pilot in a 3025 Wasp goes up against a Daishi, and while he's at a disadvantage (maybe even a big one), if he's good enough he can win.  With no help.

Maybe you're making opposed piloting rolls to dodge enemy attacks.

Think of it more that the mech is just a piece of equipment that the mechwarrior uses.  Yeah, the Daishi is a better weapon, but if a 20th level D&D fighter with a nonmagical club was to match up against a 12th level Fighter with a +5 longsword, your money would be on the 20th level guy.

The Solaris VII rules for 'mech combat using MW3rd ed or CBT:RPG (they are the same), tried to do this.  You basically got to add to your tohit number based on the 'mech's potential movement rate, what kind of movement the pilot was doing, and what the pilot's skill was.  IMHO they went about it the wrong way and made the 'mech's movement potential and pilot's ability a mutual limiting factor. 
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ialdabaoth

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #169 on: 29 October 2015, 15:26:08 »
Depends on how much meddling I'm allowed to do.

If we want to keep most of the design rules intact, we can just mess with weapon balance by adjusting damage, heat, and occasionally crit size.

The original Battletech and Citytech would thus have introduced weapons with slightly different stats:

Light Autocannon - 4 damage, 1 heat, range (3)8/16/24. 6 tons, 2 crits.
(Medium) Autocannon - 8 damage, 3 heat, range (3)6/12/18. 8 tons, 4 crits.
Heavy Autocannon - 12 damage, 5 heat, range (2)6/12/18. 12 tons, 6 crits.
Assault Autocannon - 16 damage, 7 heat, range (1)5/10/15. 14 tons, 8 crits.

Large Laser - 6 heat (all other stats the same)
LRM5 - 3 heat (all other stats the same)

If we keep the original Battletech 2nd Edition as canon, and start at 2750, then we just give TRO 2750 an additional balance pass:

- the ER PPC would have a range of 8/16/24, while the ER Large Laser would have a range of 7/14/21.
- the Gauss Rifle would generate 10 heat instead of 1, and have a range of (2)7/14/21.
- Mechs that mounted double heat sinks would come with 5 heat sinks in the engine, rather than 10.
- Pulse lasers would have the same damage and range as normal lasers.
- The Ultra AC/5 would have the same range as a normal AC/5, and could be unjammed. (If I get my alternate Autocannon introduced, then it's just an Ultra Autocannon, and does 8 damage at 3 heat per shot).
- the LB-10X wouldn't have been introduced; instead, LBX would just be an alternate ammunition type for normal autocannon.

Further weapons would always conform to the "Medium Range = 2x Short Range, Long Range = 3x Short Range" pattern.


On the other hand, if I'm allowed to go REALLY out there, then I'd adjust critical hit slots rather substantially:

1. Smaller chassis have fewer critical slots than larger chassis. Heavy 'mechs lose 1 slot per arm and torso; Medium 'mechs lose 2 slots per arm and torso; Light 'mechs lose 3 slots per arm and torso. These are the ONLY critical hit slots that are 'rerolled'; a hit to any other empty or already-hit slot just counts as 'not actually a critical hit'.

2. Engines have a variable number of critical slots, and provide a variable number of "integral heat dissipation", rather than just a variable number of heat sinks that can be hidden inside the engine. Engines up to a rating of 150 take up 3 crit slots and provide 6 heat dissipation per turn; every additional 50 points of Engine Rating (or fraction thereof) provides +2 integral heat dissipation and requires 1 additional crit slot. Likewise, XL engines up to a rating of 75 take up 3 crit slots and provide 3 heat dissipation per turn; every additional 25 points of engine rating (or fraction thereof) provides +1 integral heat dissipation and requires 1 additional crit slot. Compact Engines up to a rating of 300 take up 3 crit slots and provide 6 heat dissipation per turn; every additional 100 points of Engine Rating (or fraction thereof) provides +2 integral heat dissipation and requires 1 additional crit slot.

While the first 3 engine slots MUST be mounted in the Center Torso, additional slots may either be mounted in the center torso, or split evenly between both side torsos (with any remainder in the Center Torso), but each side torso cannot have more slots than the center torso. Thus, a standard 350-rated engine may either be mounted with 7 slots in the CT, or with 3 slots in the CT and 2 slots in each side torso.

3. Similarly, gyros have 1 critical hit slot per 100 engine rating; XL gyros have 1 critical hit slot per 50 engine rating, and compact gyros have 1 critical hit slot per 200 engine rating, all to a minimum of 2 critical hit slots.

4. Jump Jets weigh 0.5 tons and 1 critical slot for Light mechs, 1 ton and 1 critical slot for Medium mechs, 1.5 tons and 2 crits each for Heavy mechs, and 2 tons and 2 crits each for Assault mechs.


ialdabaoth

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #170 on: 29 October 2015, 15:35:36 »
Even without super-wacky stuff, one set of rules I've always REALLY wanted to see done differently is the infantry rules.

Specifically, I want infantry deployed in 5- to 7-man squads, with one or two support weapons per squad - which have the full Battletech weapon rules. Motorized infantry should be built using the small support-vee rules, and deployed just like Battlearmor.

1. Battletech scale weapons are assigned one of four damage codes - P, B, F, or H.

- P-weapons kill 1 trooper per 5 points of damage, but ignore heavy armor. All Gauss Rifles, non-Pulse Lasers, and PPCs are P-weapons.
- B-weapons kill 1 trooper per point of damage, or 1 trooper per 2 points of damage if the squad is wearing heavy armor. All Autocannon, Pulse Lasers, and Missiles are B-weapons by default.
- F-weapons kill 1d6 troopers per point of damage, or 1 trooper per point of damage if the squad is wearing heavy armor. All Machine Guns and LBX cluster munitions are F-weapons, and autocannon and missiles can fire F-rated ammunition that deals half damage against armored targets.
- H-weapons kill 1d6 troopers per point of damage. All flamers, infernos, and plasma weapons are H-weapons.

2. Motorized infantry are built as small support vees, and deployed like battlearmor. Their MP is equal to their Cruising speed, and their effective armor is equal to half their total armor rating, but they ignore facing just like normal infantry.


PurpleDragon

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #171 on: 29 October 2015, 23:25:36 »
Even without super-wacky stuff, one set of rules I've always REALLY wanted to see done differently is the infantry rules.

Specifically, I want infantry deployed in 5- to 7-man squads, with one or two support weapons per squad - which have the full Battletech weapon rules. Motorized infantry should be built using the small support-vee rules, and deployed just like Battlearmor.

1. Battletech scale weapons are assigned one of four damage codes - P, B, F, or H.

- P-weapons kill 1 trooper per 5 points of damage, but ignore heavy armor. All Gauss Rifles, non-Pulse Lasers, and PPCs are P-weapons.
- B-weapons kill 1 trooper per point of damage, or 1 trooper per 2 points of damage if the squad is wearing heavy armor. All Autocannon, Pulse Lasers, and Missiles are B-weapons by default.
- F-weapons kill 1d6 troopers per point of damage, or 1 trooper per point of damage if the squad is wearing heavy armor. All Machine Guns and LBX cluster munitions are F-weapons, and autocannon and missiles can fire F-rated ammunition that deals half damage against armored targets.
- H-weapons kill 1d6 troopers per point of damage. All flamers, infernos, and plasma weapons are H-weapons.

2. Motorized infantry are built as small support vees, and deployed like battlearmor. Their MP is equal to their Cruising speed, and their effective armor is equal to half their total armor rating, but they ignore facing just like normal infantry.

I like this.   O0
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savagecoyote79

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #172 on: 23 November 2015, 02:02:48 »
The biggest changes I would have made would be to the Aerospace game. first I would have warships have four weapon categories. Cap, cub cap, standard, and Point defense.  A warship would be able to mount a maximum of 20 of each weapon type per firing arc.  Second, point defense weapons would not require gunners.  Third, I would rework the armoring techniques to make it possible to mount more armor on larger naval vessels, between 4 and 5 times as much. I want the naval battles to be true slug fests with warships throwing dozens of shots back and forth before damage starts to become serious. I'm a fan of making conventional weapons less effective against warships but I would then rework jumpships to use standard scale armor to represent them being so easy to destroy in fluff.  To give the Inner Sphere some hope against clan warships I would make sub cap weapons available throughout the succession wars and even have small  (300-500kt) warships in the Inner Sphere navies entirely armed with sub cap and conventional weapons Another idea my brother andf I played around with was making each conventional weapons bay(we capped it at 20 weapons per bay) count as a single weapon on warships. We did that as our only modification in one game though and my brother trashed my Mckenna with his Kimagure retrofitted with 400 clan ER PPCs per firing arc, so gamer beware.  I'm pretty sure this ridiculous run-on has gone on long enough so I'm going to stop here and go to bed. Been up about 22 hours now.
"Like a carpenter's box of tools, each type of gun has its special place and purpose." - James Wesley, Rawles

TigerShark

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Rotary AC
« Reply #173 on: 23 November 2015, 11:51:53 »
The other thread discussing the RAC/2 got me thinking of the changes some have made at the table. As it is, the Rotary guns have no provision in their Battle Value for jamming. They simply take the average damage at various ranges / avg number of shots hitting at full firing rate (6 shots). That means the gun is grossly over-valued, as it will almost assuredly jam on a 6 (Needing a 5). IMO, you're paying for the gun to be fully-operational, so it should be operational, most of the time:

RAC/2 & RAC/5 Jamming Table

1-Shot: Needs 2 (Automatic Success)
2-Shot: Needs 2 (Automatic Success)
3-Shot: Needs 3
4-Shot: Needs 3
5-Shot: Needs 3
6-Shot: Needs 4
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #174 on: 23 November 2015, 12:48:09 »
I would have made winning initiative mean you pick who goes first rather than automatically benefiting from going last.

Sometimes going first is more valuable than getting the last move, and in those cases the winner of initiative should have had the option to go first.

idea weenie

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #175 on: 23 November 2015, 19:23:33 »
Modify the Thunder munitions so the minefield created is LRM salvo size divided by 5.
Modify the FASCAM rounds so instead of a minefield of the weapon's rated damage, it is 1/5 that damage.

The reason is that a standard LRM-20 can have all its missiles hit the target, and do a maximum of 20 pts of damage.  Yet if you replace that with a Thunder volley it will create a 20-pt minefield that will damage anything that walks inside a 30-meter wide hex, and repeatedly damage things on following turns if they are foolish enough to walk through it.

Same missile size (shots per ton and critical space), same ranges, same launcher, yet somehow the 1 pt warheads in the regular LRM munitions are able to do multiple points of damage when put in a minefield.


Gauss weaponry produces more heat per pt of damage than an AC, as the brass of the AC will carry away some of the heat produced.

Gauss weaponry can take advantage of extra capacitor mounts (similar to PPC capacitors), but still suffer the 5 pts of heat to charge them (and additional 5 pts of heat per additional shot).  So the first Gauss shot might do 1 pt of heat, but the 2nd and subsequent shots in that turn will do 6 pts of heat (up to the number of charged capacitors).


Dropships:
Civilian drives require less tonnage than military engines, but are more vulnerable to critical hits and consume more fuel per burn-day.


Jumpships/Warships:
Station-keeping is .01G.


Space Stations:
You can put as much SI and armor as you want.  The problem is that armor only contributes slightly to Threshold, and SI is needed for Threshold.  Without the KF core, a Space Station needs more tonnage per point of SI than a Warship.

Space Stations can transit in-system at .01G, effectively taking 10* as long as a vessel transiting at 1G (but they only need 1/10 the fuel to do so).  This allows a Space station to be Jumped to a new Star system using a Repair Bay, or a smaller station to be attached to a Dropship Docking point and jumped via regular Jumpship.

Ballistic weaponry on a Space station may need additional bracing.  Each ballistic weapon needs an amount of tonnage equal the stations's SI minus the mass of the ballistic mount for recoil dissipation, FRU. So if the station has 1 SI, and you want to mount Machine guns (quarter, half, or full ton) feel free.  But if you want to mount a dozen AC/2 (6 tons each, that is a difference of 5 tons for each weapon, so each of the 12 AC/s will need 5 tons of recoil bracing, for a total of 60 tons.  Missile weapons need half the SI to mount (so a 150 ton AR-12 missile launcher only needs 75 SI).  Energy weapons don't have recoil.

Yes, it is possible that mounting more bracing is less massive than mounting more SI.

Smaller weaponry takes up more surface area for its tonnage than a larger weapon.  So larger ships don't have the surface area to practically mount more capital weaponry, while smaller hulls don't have the tonnage for larger weaponry.  (For example, imagine 2 weapons, all else the same.  The larger weapon is 2* as long, wide, and tall, and as a result masses 8* as much.  However, it only requires 4* as much surface area.)

ASF Launch Bays would mass more than ASF storage bays.  Launch Bays can launch fighters into space, while storage bays can't.  Both can do maintenance on ASF.  ASF can be transferred from Launch Bays to Storage bays, and vice versa.  Basic idea is you have a few Launch Bays that actually deploy ASF, and a lot more Storage bays where you hold the reserve fighters or those being prepped for launch.

Surface area would be another calculation.  Given a vessel's tonnage there is a chart or equation that tells how much base surface area it has.  From there, you would have modifiers based on hull shape (for Dropships and Space stations), and you add surface area for other items (i.e. ASF Launch Bays, advanced sensor/jammer systems, external cooling arrays, etc).  Surface items are the only things ASF can shoot at when attacking a Warship Dropship, until the armor is gone (unless they carry weapons heavy enough to break through Warship Threshold).  As more Surface items are added, surface area climbs.  You then specify the armor tonnage you want, and look up on the Surface area table (or equation) to determine how many points per ton of armor the armor tonnage gets (or how many tons per pt of armor).  So the more Surface Area stuff you add, the thinner the armor gets.

Example:
A space station has a heat intensive civilian rig that produces more heat than the station's inherent heat sinks can dissipate.  Instead of spending 1 ton per pt of heat to dissipate by putting in lots of standard heat sinks, the designer decides to put in a Droplet radiator.  This allows the design to dissipate 4 pts of heat per ton (numbers guessed at), and is used.

Later the space station is under attack by pirates.  Deciding to ignore their first hails and trust the thick armor, the (idiotic) station commander refuses to turn over some of his refined product (Endo-steel?).  The pirates then send a pair of ASF in and shoot off the Droplet radiator.  The station commander then sees the heat gauges spike on the civilian gear and has a choice of either melting the station, turning off the Endo-Steel furnace, or giving up.

Another designer wants to make a Jump point defense base.  This station needs to have extensive ASF Launch Bays, as he expects the need to rapidly launch ASF after someone Jumps.  The number of ASF Launch Bays boost surface area by 25%, so the armor is only 80% as thick.

A third designer makes a defense station.  Deciding to go with ASF as the primary armament, he makes it where there is 1 ASF Launch bay for every 19 ASF storage bays.  As the station will be in orbit he expects that there will be 20 minutes available to launch the full complement of ASF.
« Last Edit: 25 November 2015, 17:51:15 by idea weenie »

Sockmonkey

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #176 on: 23 December 2015, 19:33:35 »
Ground vehicles should get twice the critspace as mechs.
That's it! Challenge the Clans to rock-paper-scissors in 3050! A good portion of the 'Mechs didn't have hands so the Inner Sphere would win!
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monbvol

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #177 on: 23 December 2015, 19:42:20 »
Are you advocating for less space on ground vehicles?

Because if you're advocating more ground vehicles already enjoy technically way more crit space than Mechs.

TigerShark

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #178 on: 23 December 2015, 19:50:01 »
Are you advocating for less space on ground vehicles?

Because if you're advocating more ground vehicles already enjoy technically way more crit space than Mechs.

Yeah. They get quite a bit. The "slots" don't have 1-for-1 parity with the crit slots of a 'Mech.
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beachhead1985

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Re: Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?
« Reply #179 on: 23 December 2015, 22:50:50 »
I'd like to see Sup Vees not follow crit rules at all; they are supposed to be totally task-oriented, so this makes sense to me.

Still working on my homebrew infantry rules...
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And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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