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Author Topic: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!  (Read 46225 times)

Colt Ward

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Scorpions come into play in a few ways . . . they were the source of the original Elemental BA proto-types, deep water mining suits.  The Scorpions also provided their databases on SL doctrine and played the role of trainers against the Dragoons before sending them off.  Some Scorpions joined the Dragoons and the Wolves perhaps traded officers to keep a few trainers in the Clan after the Dragoons were sent off- check Vlad Dinour's fluff from WCSB and the 37th? Striker Cluster?  I think the cluster even honors the Scorpion trainers with its name.  It is absolutely organized differently with each trinary having a star of mechs, star of BA and star of ASF.

I think one of the other things that makes the Scorpions allies is that the Scorpions are content to leave their borders with the Wolves alone.  Face it . . . outside of the Coyotes, anyone else not fight the Wolves for territory?

The Wolves SHOULD have employed their friendly links to the Scorpions to use Potemkins for shipping.  Ulric could have moved a lot of stuff if he had access to the Scorpion's Potemkin fleet.
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SteveRestless

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If you forced me to come up with a reason that Ulric did not take advantage of that potential aid, I would speculate it was because Ulric's goals had a lot more to do with fouling up REVIVAL and trolling the other clans first, and winning it only as a second option if they could not spoil it. An Ulric who was earnestly committed to REVIVAL's goal would have been foolish not to do that. It would give the scorpions a great chance to lug some seekers along too.

As for other clans who've not antagonized the Wolf, I am having a hard time remembering any hostilities between Clan Wolf and the Fire Mandrills. The Mandrills even share our love of la crosse. this may have more to do with a lack of relevance to each other, and the mandrill infighting rather than respect. Their blurbs about each other in FMCC are certainly no love letters. I wouldn't count that as definitive though, the same section's analysis of the coyotes isn't that flattering either, but they turned out to be our truest friends come the Wars of Reaving. FMCC also reminds me of a certain... apathy? indifference? to the Cloud Cobras. To be honest though, they are a clan I forget existed.

On a meta level, I feel like the bad blood between bear and wolf exists more because a Bear/Wolf teamup would be like an unbroken fedcom, a big Game Over for everybody else. Seems like they were friends with the Exiles on the down-low though.
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<Articus> theres coyotes outside <Articus> i can hear them baying <Steve_Restless>  oh shit it's the homeclans <Steve_Restless>  my milkshakes! *Steve_Restless leaps out the window <Articus> His milkshakes bring all the Clans to the yard <Articus> he could teach you, but you'll have to Batchall | <Articus> keep it up mister, and your next shipment of Inferno IV will be ConfettIV

Orwell84

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If you forced me to come up with a reason that Ulric did not take advantage of that potential aid, I would speculate it was because Ulric's goals had a lot more to do with fouling up REVIVAL and trolling the other clans first, and winning it only as a second option if they could not spoil it. An Ulric who was earnestly committed to REVIVAL's goal would have been foolish not to do that. It would give the scorpions a great chance to lug some seekers along too.

I recall from Lost Destiny that Phelan Ward outright stated to the other Khans that Ulric's goal was to stall the invasion. His analogy was that of a knife against a whetstone: in the end the Clans would be ground to nothing. That may yet happen, but as of Shattered Fortress I don't see any of the major Clans choking on their expanded empires.

As for other clans who've not antagonized the Wolf, I am having a hard time remembering any hostilities between Clan Wolf and the Fire Mandrills. The Mandrills even share our love of la crosse. this may have more to do with a lack of relevance to each other, and the mandrill infighting rather than respect. Their blurbs about each other in FMCC are certainly no love letters. I wouldn't count that as definitive though, the same section's analysis of the coyotes isn't that flattering either, but they turned out to be our truest friends come the Wars of Reaving. FMCC also reminds me of a certain... apathy? indifference? to the Cloud Cobras. To be honest though, they are a clan I forget existed.

The Hell's Horses also had a chummy relationship with the Wolves, until first Vlad Ward abused those ties and then the two Clans needed to compete for the same Spheroid turf.

“By the Founder’s writ,
Clan Widowmaker is no more.
Its warriors submitted
To the holy crucible of combat
And emerged not through the other side.”
—The Remembrance (Clan Wolf), Passage 174, Verse 12, Lines 1–5

Colt Ward

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Since his Refusal had been defeated, Ulric went the path of out-'Crusading' the Crusaders while he was Khan.  Its why he as part of Revival he kept his operational pace high as well as hitting a lot of worlds unlike the actual Crusader Clans.  To hit that operational tempo he, or someone in his keshik who was involved in the planning, staged supplies forward with those supply caches in frontline systems- not sure if we were ever told if they were un-inhabited or just occupied systems- while his Clusters that had been involved in the fighting consolidated their hold.  He also sourced as much stuff locally so the shipments from Clan space was for the vital stuff that could not be found locally.  Food, water, uniforms, medical supplies, standard armor, maybe ammo depending on your BTU interpretation, building supplies, tools, ICE fuel, POL, support vehicles (VTOLs, trucks, jeep analogues), and anything else that a army might need on the march- a sort of BTU Sherman's March to the Sea, full scale foraging.  Which, since Ulric was waging a logistics war against the Crusaders a handful of Potemkins being added to his logistics planning would have been huge- see https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63210.msg1453823#msg1453823.

While not explicitly said, the indication is this is different from the other three Crusader Clans.  AFAIK Aiden's story did not cover the Falcons seizing property and looting storehouses for what they needed.  We get indications the three Crusader Clans did not care about their logistics and told their tech/merchants to just get everything from the Home Worlds to the IS.  The benefit of Ulric's approach is multitude- first since the Clans only care about success, its what he has and means the non-Invaders will listen more in Council than to the Crusader Invaders.  Second it puts a LOT of pressure on the invading Crusader leadership, those without bloodnames need combat to get Bloodnamed killed and to prove themselves for advancement.  Those with Bloodnames want higher ranked individuals to fall, either through failure or in combat, so they can advance either in Bloodhouse politics or in Clan rank.  This is why Aletha was able to replace the Khan after she was elected, the core of the Ghost Bear touman was disappointed in their showing in the Invasion and wanted new leadership to get the Clan on track.  The final advantage is the one most people acknowledge, it forced the Crusaders to hurry up their assaults which resulted in more casualties and equipment damage- along with damage to the Crusader's reputation.

When Ulric became ilKhan . . . well, then the plan was cranked up to 11.  Natasha and Garth Radick kept up the pace of the Wolf assaults to keep the pressure up.  ilKhan Ulric increased the pressure on the Crusaders using his new powers.  He added to the invading Clans by pairing enemies with the two strongest Crusader Clans which increased the competition for invasion targets and would add to the dissension in the Falcon & Jaguar ranks- not sure it really had a affect on the Falcons since Crichell was such a operator but the Jaguar's constant change of Khans and the election after Tukayyid would indicate it did work in that Clan.  Ulric also negotiated the proxy fight that we know offered such enticing rewards but exploited the other Clans' weakness, and even with Ulric's logistics work the Wolves were not sitting too much better in the supply department.

Orwell, Ulric won since until Seth War followed Alaric's plan (another March to the Sea!) the Clans as a whole had not managed to break past the Truce line for the most part.    A third of the Clans he knew were destroyed (Burrocks, Spirits, Mandrills, Hellions, Vipers, Jaguars), more were subsumed by the IS/Peri pops aka capturing the fly paper (Bears, Ravens, Scorpions, Cats, Warden Wolves), or abandoned any present moves against the IS (Adders, Coyotes, Cobras, Lions)  This left the Crusader Wolves, Falcons and Horses . . . and Malvina's Falcons is what Ulric most feared for the future.
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Colt Ward

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I stumbled across the Orion IIC 'Burton' . . . and I have to say, ew . . . they ruined the mech.  XL, HAG, and more ammo?  A single ATM3 on a heavy mech?

While I would have liked to see a 2 go with a LB-10X and ATMs instead of LRM/SRM . . . or HAG & ATMs if we had to keep the gauss . . .

The Burton is a sad new toy against the rock solid old Orion IIC.
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SteveRestless

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Fortunately that's a one-off custom.

the REAL successor to the Orion IIc is the Orion C that we still (grumble grumble) do not have official record sheets for. But all my attempts to approximate it based on 3150 NTNU have indicated that it will be a beast and a half. Basically an advanced clantech ON2-M and that's wonderful.
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<Articus> theres coyotes outside <Articus> i can hear them baying <Steve_Restless>  oh shit it's the homeclans <Steve_Restless>  my milkshakes! *Steve_Restless leaps out the window <Articus> His milkshakes bring all the Clans to the yard <Articus> he could teach you, but you'll have to Batchall | <Articus> keep it up mister, and your next shipment of Inferno IV will be ConfettIV

Colt Ward

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Curious as to what you are putting on it . . .

I mean, I see SFE, IS ES, Clan DHS, Clan weapons (GR, SLRM15, 3 MPL), and Clan FF armor . . . but I like the ERLL from the original and wish we had gotten a 2 with ATMs instead of LRM/SRMs.  Hmm, how bad would the C be with that Watchdog CEWS.
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Sartris

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Fortunately that's a one-off custom.

the REAL successor to the Orion IIc is the Orion C that we still (grumble grumble) do not have official record sheets for. But all my attempts to approximate it based on 3150 NTNU have indicated that it will be a beast and a half. Basically an advanced clantech ON2-M and that's wonderful.

that's a big W for me

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Longinus looks like IS internal, AP weapon mount.  Armor is clan.

Orion sounds right, it's er medium pulse lasers though, not plain MPL.
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Colt Ward

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Longinus looks like IS internal, AP weapon mount.  Armor is clan.

Orion sounds right, it's er medium pulse lasers though, not plain MPL.

IS Internal means it still cannot jump with missiles, BUT it sounds like expected for a hasty patch to the design.  Figure Advanced SRMs?
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nckestrel

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IS Internal means it still cannot jump with missiles, BUT it sounds like expected for a hasty patch to the design.  Figure Advanced SRMs?

Yep on both.
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SteveRestless

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TRO specifies an ASRM4.

For the Orion, the main point of contention in my interpretation is the ratio of ammunition and armor. the TRO blurb specifies that it has the same amount of armor as the ON2-M, but it does not specify whether that's the same amount of protection (points of armor) or tonnage of armor.

Gauss Rifle, SLRM-15, 3x ERMPL, and then my preferred interpretation is 189pts of FL armor, 2t Streak LRM, 3t Gauss.

For the Longinus C, I went ASRM-4 with 3 shots, Small Laser, Clan Armor, and it already has an AP Weapon Mount.  Since MML showed a 0t Clan Magclamp system available, I added that too because of the decreased availability of Omnimechs, but there's no fluff to make me think it would have that. I just wanted it to for my own use.
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<Articus> theres coyotes outside <Articus> i can hear them baying <Steve_Restless>  oh shit it's the homeclans <Steve_Restless>  my milkshakes! *Steve_Restless leaps out the window <Articus> His milkshakes bring all the Clans to the yard <Articus> he could teach you, but you'll have to Batchall | <Articus> keep it up mister, and your next shipment of Inferno IV will be ConfettIV

nckestrel

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TRO specifies an ASRM4.

For the Orion, the main point of contention in my interpretation is the ratio of ammunition and armor. the TRO blurb specifies that it has the same amount of armor as the ON2-M, but it does not specify whether that's the same amount of protection (points of armor) or tonnage of armor.

Gauss Rifle, SLRM-15, 3x ERMPL, and then my preferred interpretation is 189pts of FL armor, 2t Streak LRM, 3t Gauss.
224 armor. 2 ton gauss.
Quote
For the Longinus C, I went ASRM-4 with 3 shots, Small Laser, Clan Armor, and it already has an AP Weapon Mount.  Since MML showed a 0t Clan Magclamp system available, I added that too because of the decreased availability of Omnimechs, but there's no fluff to make me think it would have that. I just wanted it to for my own use.
it has a modular mount (220 kg) and an AP weapon mount.  IS mag clamp.  one-shot asrm-4.  10 clan armor.
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Colt Ward

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Yeah, since it cannot jump with a missile pack, not sure why you want that many shots on a med.  And forget a small laser, its criminal if Clan BA is not mounting AP Gauss.  The Mag Clamp is a nice addition, this is basically a proto-Elemental suit with advanced weapons.

Though I am still trying to find the rules bit where the AP mount dinks armor.
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SteveRestless

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224 armor. 2 ton gauss.

it has a modular mount (220 kg) and an AP weapon mount.  IS mag clamp.  one-shot asrm-4.  10 clan armor.

Answers that I have been waiting quite awhile on. Thanks!
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<Articus> theres coyotes outside <Articus> i can hear them baying <Steve_Restless>  oh shit it's the homeclans <Steve_Restless>  my milkshakes! *Steve_Restless leaps out the window <Articus> His milkshakes bring all the Clans to the yard <Articus> he could teach you, but you'll have to Batchall | <Articus> keep it up mister, and your next shipment of Inferno IV will be ConfettIV

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AP mount dinks armour by rounding up on .5+, if said weapon does enough damage to do so
 It's then treated as 1 point damage.

TT
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Colt Ward

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Which is what I thought but I had someone saying it did no BT damage b/c they did not show up on some old sheets.  I would have to look at the date on them.
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Jellico

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224 FL.
GR (16)
SLRM15 (16)
3 x ERMPL
2 x CASE II

Placement is per ON2-M.

I was never here.

Colt Ward

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 . . . which is REALLY interesting since the topic came up, and suddenly we have a few topics saying what those variants turned out to be . .

Pure Clan or mixed tech?

And if we had not heard the Longinus C before, then that was the first crack in the wall.
« Last Edit: 10 February 2019, 04:48:40 by Colt Ward »
Colt Ward

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Jellico

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Inner Sphere engine and Endo chassis.

From memory all of the Wolf NTNU in 3150 is from FWL factories so based on IS chassis.

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What I figured, but there is a weight difference in the CASE IIs.
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Crits seem off to me. Or I am stupid and doing something wrong, which is more likely
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Colt Ward

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The Orion 2M had 2 spare crits . . . basically 1 in each arm.  Converting to the GR and SLRM frees up 2 crits . . . and the new CASE II take 1 & expanding the MPL to erMPL takes up the other 3.  Basically the only difference is the 1 'Roll Again' in each arm goes away.
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SteveRestless

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Can I just say that I am absolutely in love with so many of our equipment options at the current point in the timeline?

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<Articus> theres coyotes outside <Articus> i can hear them baying <Steve_Restless>  oh shit it's the homeclans <Steve_Restless>  my milkshakes! *Steve_Restless leaps out the window <Articus> His milkshakes bring all the Clans to the yard <Articus> he could teach you, but you'll have to Batchall | <Articus> keep it up mister, and your next shipment of Inferno IV will be ConfettIV

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@Colt

Under the TechManual v3.0 found in the errata section on this forum, should have a better understanding...

UNFORTUNATLY: it's incomplete as of date... the newer House books and AToW and Companion have added more weapons, as has a few of the sourcebooks... including IO, which contains the Vintage weapons...

I'll share with you a copy of my report in a PM.

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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
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The Orion 2M had 2 spare crits . . . basically 1 in each arm.  Converting to the GR and SLRM frees up 2 crits . . . and the new CASE II take 1 & expanding the MPL to erMPL takes up the other 3.  Basically the only difference is the 1 'Roll Again' in each arm goes away.

Yeah, I figured what I was doing wrong. Works now
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Whenever you use terms like 'fiat' or 'stupid pills', you render your argument invalid

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Jellico

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So...

BattleMaster C 2
Orion C

Cheetah IIC
Defender II C

Longinus C

Have I missed anything?
« Last Edit: 11 February 2019, 07:53:33 by Jellico »

nckestrel

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The Tempest C is Clan Protectorate rather than Clan Wolf.  (I need to check that errata got posted..)
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Jellico

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Fixed.

I must admit the Clans finally getting into the FWL offered some interesting opportunities. Just imagine what we will do with Canopian factories.

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Fixed.

I must admit the Clans finally getting into the FWL offered some interesting opportunities. Just imagine what we will do with Canopian factories.
What Canopian factories? IIRC, Detroit, their largest of new technology fell into Capellan hands during the Dark Age. They might still be
getting Mechs from there, but all it takes is for Ilsa and Dao-shen/Danai to have a little argument and that source gets turned off rather quickly.
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