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Author Topic: Axumite Providence  (Read 3992 times)

ArkRoyalRavager

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Axumite Providence
« on: 13 October 2015, 04:47:54 »
Just curious, why is the Deep Periphery state called Axumite Providence when it is anything but? The name implies an Ethiopian nation-state, but:

1) Its people's language is Arabic, which is not even spoken in Axum(Ethiopia) where they use Amharic, Oromo and English as main languages and numerous other local African languages

2) Its religion is Islam with a majority Muslim population but shouldn't it be Christian as they are the majority in Ethiopia with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church

With the way it is portrayed in ISP3 the name Axumite Providence seems like a misnomer. To be more accurate, shouldn't it be Islamic Republic of (place name), or some sort of Islamic Caliphate or (ethnonym) Arab Republic?


Archangel

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #1 on: 13 October 2015, 07:01:45 »
The vast majority of the original settlers were from the northern parts of Africa where the original Kingdom of Aksum (aka the Aksumite Empire) was located.  No need to look any deeper.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #2 on: 13 October 2015, 07:47:31 »
Uh huh. Which would ignore the entire history and evolution of the Kingdom to a Jewish and then Christian empire. That is what making them only capable of speaking Arabic and majority Islam in the far future would imply. A generalization that everyone from the northern parts of Africa is like that.
« Last Edit: 13 October 2015, 07:49:07 by ArkRoyalRavager »

Archangel

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #3 on: 13 October 2015, 17:57:51 »
A BT writer copying the name of a  little-known historical state for one in the BT universe and the writer exercising his creative license by having the BT version be different from its historical counter-part?  What a shock!   [AAAH]

Here is an idea you might want to consider:  If you want really to know the reason why the Axumite Providence was written that way, why don't you 'Ask the Writers' rather than pushing a discussion that borders on violating Rule 4.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #4 on: 13 October 2015, 23:25:25 »
I thought a Periphery faction would belong to these boards. But since you put it that way, why should I bother when it's an obvious ignorance of cultural continuity.

greatsarcasmo

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #5 on: 14 October 2015, 09:35:12 »
Here is an idea you might want to consider:  If you want really to know the reason why the Axumite Providence was written that way, why don't you 'Ask the Writers' rather than pushing a discussion that borders on violating Rule 4.

This, as a moderator, is a singularly great idea.
If you wish to continue the discussion, you are welcome to, but keep it civil and be damn mindful of rule 4.

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glitterboy2098

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #6 on: 14 October 2015, 13:13:03 »
The vast majority of the original settlers were from the northern parts of Africa where the original Kingdom of Aksum (aka the Aksumite Empire) was located.  No need to look any deeper.

except that Aksum was never in northern africa. it was centered on the region of Ethiopia and the farthest north it got was southern Sudan. (it's spread north was always blocked by egypt..though egypt changed hands with various other empires several times in the process)

Aksum did control the southern parts of the Saudi Arabian peninsula for awhile, but only for a time before islam arrived. by the time Muhammed created that faith Aksum had more or less abandoned the region, and the first waves of the islamic Caliphate's expansions pretty much prevented them from even trying to get it back. though even at the height of their power there they only controlled a few seaports in Yemen, and held the rest as a tributary state rather than direct ownership.

and Aksum had been christian since the 2rd century. the regions islamic minority was created in the 7th century (not long after the start of islam), but they have never been a particularly big or powerful minority.
« Last Edit: 14 October 2015, 13:15:02 by glitterboy2098 »

Øystein

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #7 on: 14 October 2015, 15:50:38 »
Simple, the Axumite Providence was founded by islamic settlers of ethiopian origin who wanted to honor their ancestry.

Sorrry it doesn't fit your idea, but you're welcome to create your own version of the realm for your own universe. ISP3 is how the official BattleTech one is.


Bosefius

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #8 on: 14 October 2015, 21:53:46 »
Move along folks, this question is asked and answered.
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Nightgaun7

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #9 on: 15 October 2015, 09:27:03 »
BT already has a bunch of Muslim-influenced factions, including a deep periphery version. Mysterious Ethiopians doing Prester John II would be considerably more interesting.

Coriendal

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #10 on: 15 October 2015, 20:03:33 »
Here is an idea you might want to consider:  If you want really to know the reason why the Axumite Providence was written that way, why don't you 'Ask the Writers' rather than pushing a discussion that borders on violating Rule 4.

Next time could you just tells us what rule 4 is so those who don't have them memorized don't have to hunt down rule 4 to figure out why you sound offended about a non profanity somewhat civil conversation and why it is getting blasted.  Thanks.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #11 on: 15 October 2015, 20:09:37 »
Just curious, why is the Deep Periphery state called Axumite Providence when it is anything but? The name implies an Ethiopian nation-state, but:

1) Its people's language is Arabic, which is not even spoken in Axum(Ethiopia) where they use Amharic, Oromo and English as main languages and numerous other local African languages

2) Its religion is Islam with a majority Muslim population but shouldn't it be Christian as they are the majority in Ethiopia with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church

With the way it is portrayed in ISP3 the name Axumite Providence seems like a misnomer. To be more accurate, shouldn't it be Islamic Republic of (place name), or some sort of Islamic Caliphate or (ethnonym) Arab Republic?

You might as well ask why the houses are feudalistic states using an outdated system of nobility. They aren't bound to their current status in our twenty first century.
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greatsarcasmo

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #12 on: 16 October 2015, 03:26:38 »
Next time could you just tells us what rule 4 is so those who don't have them memorized don't have to hunt down rule 4 to figure out why you sound offended about a non profanity somewhat civil conversation and why it is getting blasted.  Thanks.

Top of the page, orange bar: "Forum Rules". You agreed to the rules when you signed up. Not our responsibility to quote them every time someone needs prodding.
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tapdancingbeavers

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #13 on: 16 October 2015, 07:45:51 »
Perhaps the region on Earth had a demographic change before the colonists left for the Axumite Providence or perhaps it was colonised by a minority group of the region or perhaps there is some other reason.  I don't mind these kind of dissonant pieces of background as real history can be convoluted and not make sense retrospectively without all the detail

Coriendal

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #14 on: 16 October 2015, 10:24:22 »
Top of the page, orange bar: "Forum Rules". You agreed to the rules when you signed up. Not our responsibility to quote them every time someone needs prodding.

Thank you.  I check in every few months(played since battledroids off and on) but had totally forgotten that tab was there. 

VictorMorson

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #15 on: 16 October 2015, 11:28:43 »
In our campaign, we ended up crashing out there for 6 years.  So I've looked into everything about the AP.

A few things:  Each planet was founded largely by different group of settlers.  So there are some planets which are Islamic but in no way a theocracy (only Ksabi is).  Also their MAIN language is a mix of languages, not just Arabic.  It includes everything from Ethiopian to Libyan, and is a blended group.

If anything the language card at the end of ISP3 that lists "German" - just straight up German - is the insane one.  Ultimately we house ruled them a new developed language because all the fluff specifically indicated that, unlike the hard language listings.

The AP is an interesting empire; with only one remaining jumpship, there's just no way they can trade or move forces of any planetary-scale level at all.  We ended up filling in some holes in our campaign and made their trade central around the ideas of communication and IP rights - trading technology and culture, but precious little physical cargo.  That's not in the book, just the only thing that makes any sense.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #16 on: 16 October 2015, 12:59:32 »
Perhaps the region on Earth had a demographic change before the colonists left for the Axumite Providence or perhaps it was colonised by a minority group of the region or perhaps there is some other reason.  I don't mind these kind of dissonant pieces of background as real history can be convoluted and not make sense retrospectively without all the detail

to be honest, most of us don't mind convoluted history either.

but how do you determine if a dissonant bit is due to an author having in mind convoluted history, and sort that out from an author who didn't do enough research and just made a mistake?

separating that is an important bit of detail when it comes to expanding the material later, be it unofficially in games and officially in future products. to avoid making the write ups even more dissonant by way of retcon or expanding it in ways contrary to the original intent.

roosterboy

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #17 on: 16 October 2015, 13:16:53 »
but how do you determine if a dissonant bit is due to an author having in mind convoluted history, and sort that out from an author who didn't do enough research and just made a mistake?

I don't think that matters. Regardless of why it was written that way, it was and that's what you build off of, not what you think the original author's intent was.

Gravedigger

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #18 on: 16 October 2015, 14:30:14 »
As the author who wrote the Axumite Providence...
Yes, they are primarily a Muslim state who named themselves after an ancient Christian one. Why?
The original leaders of the colony group had ancestry that linked back to the Axumites of old, and wanted to pay homage to that as well as to be inclusive of the small percentage of Christian settlers that were with them.

Yes, I know that the old Axumite Empire was in what today is Ethopia, but you should also look at what happened in the 7th century AD, an event called the 'Migration to Abyssinia', or the 'First Hijrah'. This is where early Muslims sought refuge from persecution *in* Axum. The settlers also saw the Cluster they were approaching as a safe haven from the war engulfing human space, and it's easy to see them linking themselves to early Muslims fleeing to Axum to seek protection. Hence naming it after one of the first safe havens needed by Muslims.

I hope this explains my reasoning. Really, it's a multitude of reasons including history, the ancestry of major NPCs, and wanting to be as inclusive to other faiths/minorities in their colony group.

I should add that German is a language in the Providence because of the general area in which they were originally to be settling had nearby systems that were German speakers. It made sense to me that German would have been one of those third or fourth languages that people learned to get them by.

Aaron "Gravedigger" Pollyea
« Last Edit: 16 October 2015, 14:35:17 by Gravedigger »

VictorMorson

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #19 on: 16 October 2015, 17:16:42 »
As the author who wrote the Axumite Providence...
Yes, they are primarily a Muslim state who named themselves after an ancient Christian one. Why?
The original leaders of the colony group had ancestry that linked back to the Axumites of old, and wanted to pay homage to that as well as to be inclusive of the small percentage of Christian settlers that were with them.

Yes, I know that the old Axumite Empire was in what today is Ethopia, but you should also look at what happened in the 7th century AD, an event called the 'Migration to Abyssinia', or the 'First Hijrah'. This is where early Muslims sought refuge from persecution *in* Axum. The settlers also saw the Cluster they were approaching as a safe haven from the war engulfing human space, and it's easy to see them linking themselves to early Muslims fleeing to Axum to seek protection. Hence naming it after one of the first safe havens needed by Muslims.

I hope this explains my reasoning. Really, it's a multitude of reasons including history, the ancestry of major NPCs, and wanting to be as inclusive to other faiths/minorities in their colony group.

I should add that German is a language in the Providence because of the general area in which they were originally to be settling had nearby systems that were German speakers. It made sense to me that German would have been one of those third or fourth languages that people learned to get them by.

Aaron "Gravedigger" Pollyea

Ah, that's pretty awesome to know.  We ended up filling in a bunch of blanks, and the German in our campaign ultimately came from the equivalent of an Amish group we made up in there, that kept their old language. 

Not sure if you were responsible for the Core Confederacy too, but we had a lot of fun with both factions and they've becoming a running bit in our campaign.  ISP3 is a great book, really dig what you did with it.  I admit I hope that both of them get brought into the latest timeline a little more, I'm a sucker for Periphery empires.

PS:  Since you wrote them, just out of curiosity how did you envision their empire working with a single jump ship?  Like I mentioned we ultimately decided that their main import/export was information, research, culture, all things that could be carried pretty easily.  It worked out great for us, but I'm just curious how they officially worked.

-

Oh and in regards to the original debate, I really liked how the AP was played "against type."  While we had to make up the profile for the other worlds, Ksabi's hardline theocracy versus Thala's major cultural contributions made for some cool politics.  I'd totally buy a rule book for the DEEP periphery factions in detail.
« Last Edit: 16 October 2015, 17:22:33 by VictorMorson »

glitterboy2098

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #20 on: 16 October 2015, 20:43:17 »
glad to hear there was an actual plan behind it.

as far as the single jumpship thing..
how many dropships do they have access to?

and how far away are their star systems from each other? if they're close enough together, maybe they can do sub-light trips for some trade.

Gravedigger

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #21 on: 16 October 2015, 20:50:27 »

PS:  Since you wrote them, just out of curiosity how did you envision their empire working with a single jump ship?  Like I mentioned we ultimately decided that their main import/export was information, research, culture, all things that could be carried pretty easily.  It worked out great for us, but I'm just curious how they officially worked.


You got it in one try. You aren't going to be shipping large quantities of goods across the solar systems, you are going to be transporting information. For the Providence that means cultural information such as new novels, audio and visual entertainment, research, news, etc. To the Axumites cultural information like this is almost as important as luxury goods with how their society functions. A *very* limited amount of physical goods would be shipped around and usually only provided to planetary leaders or VIPs. Also keep in mind that if two systems aren't going to be visited by that single JumpShip any time soon, it saves time to use laser communications between worlds to transmit data at light-speed. No rapid chats, but that new epic poem or series of novels can be transmitted and received years later.

Aaron "Gravedigger" Pollyea
« Last Edit: 16 October 2015, 20:52:14 by Gravedigger »

Gravedigger

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #22 on: 16 October 2015, 20:51:36 »
glad to hear there was an actual plan behind it.

as far as the single jumpship thing..
how many dropships do they have access to?

and how far away are their star systems from each other? if they're close enough together, maybe they can do sub-light trips for some trade.

You can probably answer that yourself when you look at when their Jump Ships were built.

Aaron "Gravedigger" Pollyea

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #23 on: 18 October 2015, 10:06:01 »
As the author who wrote the Axumite Providence...
Yes, they are primarily a Muslim state who named themselves after an ancient Christian one. Why?
The original leaders of the colony group had ancestry that linked back to the Axumites of old, and wanted to pay homage to that as well as to be inclusive of the small percentage of Christian settlers that were with them.

Yes, I know that the old Axumite Empire was in what today is Ethopia, but you should also look at what happened in the 7th century AD, an event called the 'Migration to Abyssinia', or the 'First Hijrah'. This is where early Muslims sought refuge from persecution *in* Axum. The settlers also saw the Cluster they were approaching as a safe haven from the war engulfing human space, and it's easy to see them linking themselves to early Muslims fleeing to Axum to seek protection. Hence naming it after one of the first safe havens needed by Muslims.

I hope this explains my reasoning. Really, it's a multitude of reasons including history, the ancestry of major NPCs, and wanting to be as inclusive to other faiths/minorities in their colony group.

Aaron "Gravedigger" Pollyea

Thanks for answering the OP! You were really helpful. Now my itch is cured  :)

Gravedigger

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #24 on: 18 October 2015, 11:55:46 »
Thanks for answering the OP! You were really helpful. Now my itch is cured  :)

No problem. Just try and keep in mind that we Freelancers really do try and do our research beforehand and somethings that may totally not make sense at first glance actually do with a bit more information that may not have fit into the book. On the other hand, some things may just be a mystery!

Aaron "Gravedigger" Pollyea

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #25 on: 19 October 2015, 09:35:29 »
Please don't make the Green Ghosts and Wolverines mysteries. Want to see them in their true (glory)!

Korzon77

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Re: Axumite Providence
« Reply #26 on: 19 October 2015, 20:09:05 »
I'd also note that most off world settlers in Btech are nearly a 1000 years past their origins on earth.  That's a tremendous amount of time for cultural change and names may be added that no longer have any real sense of connection with the people living there save for the name.

 

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