The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!

[Scotty]

True, but scale of response can help there. If I have something cheap that can avoid the big problem and go deal with the smaller one without losing too much from my front line, I'll go for it.

Ahh, but now we're into hypotheticals and contigencies.  Sure, if I can spare a secondary weapon to blow something away and deal with less fire that's nice, but if I have to dedicate my guns to a primary target you can bet it's going to be something high threat, not something low-durability (unless that overlaps).  High threat and high durability (either through speed, armor, or firepower) tends to interact favorably with concentrations of opponent BV, to boot.

[GespenstM]

Hmm. We may have different styles there.

On a side topic: Question! Does FWL have access to the Mad Cat III X? I know we have the normal Mad Cat III, but what about the X?

[Sartris]

On a side topic: Question! Does FWL have access to the Mad Cat III X? I know we have the normal Mad Cat III, but what about the X?

The writeup in XTRO: Clans seems to indicate that for the right price, anybody can get one.

[MarikMilitaMan]

Hmm. We may have different styles there.

On a side topic: Question! Does FWL have access to the Mad Cat III X? I know we have the normal Mad Cat III, but what about the X?

Only shows as Diamond Shark for the Jihad on the MUL, and TBD in the early Republic era, which are the only 2 eras it is available.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Well, I was talking about FWL line formations such as the Oriente Hussars and so on.

Well the non-Clan Protectorate forces of the FWLM have the same access to Clan-tech that everyone else has (friendly neighborhood Sea Fox arms dealers), but they also have additional access to it via intra-army trade with Protectorate forces.

The Houses across the Inner Sphere are also beginning to produce domestic Clan-tech in addition to Sea Fox imports.  The nuFWL might be behind Steiner, Davion, and Kurita due to the duplication of efforts inherent to being a bunch of competing, sovereign empires for most of the Dark Age... but now that they're unified (mostly) and faced with collective threats they should be getting their act together on unifying a manufacturing base... especially since they need to replace what was lost to the Wolf Empire.  Since S-D-K could all manage, the FWL's effort should see some native clan-spec infrastructure come online as well.

EDIT: Question! Does FWL have access to the Mad Cat III X? I know we have the normal Mad Cat III, but what about the X?

The MUL says that as of the Jihad, only the Sharks did.  Since they're part of the Clan Protectorate and the Clan Protectorate is part of the FWL, I'd say that technically the answer is no but if you've got a Clan Protectorate force there's no reason they couldn't have them.

[Scotty]

Answer unclear.  It's in use by Diamond Sharks during the Jihad, before they split into Khanates and Aimags which means it's possible that the Sea Fox contingent of the Clan Protectorate had a non-zero number of them.  I think production is a bit much to assume off the cuff, but trade isn't out of the question.

If you're curious and want to research it on your own, the Sea Fox units that help form the Clan Protectorate are Omicron Cluster (formerly of Delta Aimag, Spina Khanate) as a designated Protectorate line unit, with the rest of Spina Khanate participating in League politics as full representatives in parliament but not clearly defined as part of the Protectorate's military presence.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Answer unclear.

To further muddy the waters, TPTB's stance on the MUL's Dark Age availability is that if a unit has not yet been updated for the Dark Age, the same availability from the previous era (Jihad) is presumed to repeat.

So whenever that unit is updated for the Dark Age, it might see more widespread availability.  Then again it might not.

[Scotty]

I think odds are it'll get a Mercenary tag, a Sea Fox tag, and a Republic tag.  I'd not be surprised to see (and also not surprised to not see) a FWL tag.  Honestly I get the distinct feeling that through the end of the Dark Age the FWL and the Clan Protectorate should probably still have separate lists.  After that, maybe the equipment is widespread enough.

[nckestrel]

To further muddy the waters, TPTB's stance on the MUL's Dark Age availability is that if a unit has not yet been updated for the Dark Age, the same availability from the previous era (Jihad) is presumed to repeat.

That's not TPTB's stance.  Somebody might have suggested that, on their own, as what to do with availability that hasn't been listed yet.  But that is somebody giving an opinion, not "TPTB" and not a stance. 

[Tai Dai Cultist]

That's not TPTB's stance.  Somebody might have suggested that, on their own, as what to do with availability that hasn't been listed yet.  But that is somebody giving an opinion, not "TPTB" and not a stance.

I'm absolutely positive I read that on these forums.  Now I'll have to go back and find the reference and see if it was a beemer or just a peon speaking "for" TPTB.  If I had to guess I would have guessed it came from you if you hadn't just refuted that.

So I guess if I don't find the statement, I guess your post there serves well enough as an official "there is no stance" statement.

[nckestrel]

I'm absolutely positive I read that on these forums.  Now I'll have to go back and find the reference and see if it was a beemer or just a peon speaking "for" TPTB.  If I had to guess I would have guessed it came from you if you hadn't just refuted that.

So I guess if I don't find the statement, I guess your post there serves well enough as an official "there is no stance" statement.

It might have come from me.  :).  But I'm not TPTB (I'm not one, nor do I speak for them) and even if I was, I'd be saying my opinion as to "hey, official doesn't cover this, so what the hell do I do?", not offering an official position. 

But then, that would be my usual opinion when something isn't covered officially/canon.  Take the closet answer and eyeball it and adjust as needed/wanted till you like the result.

[GespenstM]

Huh. That... is a pretty confusing set of answers. The impression I'm getting is that no, it wouldn't be available to Oriente Hussars or similar regiments in any case?

[nckestrel]

Huh. That... is a pretty confusing set of answers. The impression I'm getting is that no, it wouldn't be available to Oriente Hussars or similar regiments in any case?

If there is no answer, then make it up.  You're not going to get an official answer if there is no official answer. 
But don't make something I say in passing as a work around into an official "TPTB said so!!!" (said in loud, intimidating voice).  My trying to be helpful in presenting how to deal with where there are no official answers is not a club by which to beat another player with to "win" an argument.  I'm not even the one doing the Republic era availabilities for the MUL, I don't even know what their current status is. 

I think the Sarath is available to all the FWL now, that's about it :).  In fact, the FWL has no access to anything but Saraths.  Sarath Fire Lances, Sarath Strike Lances, Sarath Assault Lances.  And Sarath Infantry Fighting Vehicles.  (But no infantry, all you get are Saraths.)

[GespenstM]

Sorry, wasn't trying to push you like that. It's as you say, no true answer at this time per official sources; I just didn't quite get it. Thank you for clarifying, I'll just go with "safest answer for general play is No until further material addresses the issue, though there's evidence it might be Yes In Limited Quantities."

Ah well. The regular Mad Cat III is pretty fun anyway, so a 'safe-No' for now is not the end of the world for me.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

It might have come from me.  :).  But I'm not TPTB (I'm not one, nor do I speak for them) and even if I was, I'd be saying my opinion as to "hey, official doesn't cover this, so what the hell do I do?", not offering an official position. 

But then, that would be my usual opinion when something isn't covered officially/canon.  Take the closet answer and eyeball it and adjust as needed/wanted till you like the result.

Then we have a different definition of who is and who is not TPTB ;) 

Still, I think that particular answer is settled.

Huh. That... is a pretty confusing set of answers. The impression I'm getting is that no, it wouldn't be available to Oriente Hussars or similar regiments in any case?

In the few minutes I just spent scrubbing the forums, I did find this little gem that should answer your question neatly.

[GespenstM]

That's cool. I just try not to go too wild with my unit selections, I like fluff and diversity. It's why I don't drop Thunder Hawks into my FWL Forces!

That said, "nothing but Saraths" would... actually be playable. You have decent energy damage, decent missile damage, melee capability, jumping, decent speed. I'm honestly willing to believe a force of nothing but Sarath could win a fair number of games provided the opponent wasn't just blatantly fielding anti-Sarath units.

[Molossian Dog IIC]

...I think the Sarath is available to all the FWL now, that's about it :).  In fact, the FWL has no access to anything but Saraths.  Sarath Fire Lances, Sarath Strike Lances, Sarath Assault Lances.  And Sarath Infantry Fighting Vehicles.  (But no infantry, all you get are Saraths.)

Frigging awesome!

I don´t need anything else!

[GespenstM]

*Laughs*

Funny how something like that can make someone's day. I understand, mind you. The Sarath is a good Mech and a lot of fun to use.

[Scotty]

If you want a fun way to keep up flavor with your units while including salvage and units not involved with your faction otherwise, use the Combat Manual method:

• Each company in your command begins with 12 Faction Points (FP).
• Units found in your faction normally do not cost FP to include.
• Including multiples of single variants costs 1 FP per additional variant.  Having two Trebuchet -5Ns would cost 1 FP total, but having one Trebuchet -5N and one -3C would not cost any FP.
• Units found with your faction's allies cost 2 FP to include.
• Units found with your faction's enemies cost 3 FP to include.
• Other special modifying factors for FP costs may be present based on unit and formation (i.e. duplicate variants not costing extra FP, access to non-Ally or non-Enemy lists for various FP costs).

As long as you agree with whoever you're playing on the rules before you start the game, go for it!

[Avitue]

Weird. I'd think players would understand that it's often smart to go after the easy kills first just to whittle down your offensive output. Glad you're making them work, though!

Depends on the threat level.  While going for the easy kills first lowers offensive output sooner than going after the bigger badder things, it also lowers offensive output slower.  Every turn you spend taking out a Vedette is a turn you're not whittling down a Hunchback, and an AC/20 (or Gauss, or PPC, or anything big) is going to contribute more in those couple turns you're not killing it than the Vedette would contribute all game.

Like Scotty Says, it really depends on the perceived threat level.

When I had those RFLs paired with 60 LRMs and 4 PPC? sure, they die early and often. And even in this case their dying means the shots aren't going to the objectively more useful LGB/AWS.

When they were paired with a couple of 100-ton clantech monstrosities which has its shortest range weapons hitting range 21... not so much.  ;)

It's mostly a case of presenting an opponent with a platter full of poison and making him choose one. :D

[GespenstM]

(List of interesting mechanics for easily determining what's 'in flavor' for a combat force)

I like it. Thanks! That honestly should clear up most questions of this kind from me from here on, I believe.

[Scotty]

All of those can be found in the Combat Manual: Mercenaries force building section.  It's a pretty sweet book on its own, but that was worth $5 by itself for me.

[The Eagle]

 In Succession Wars era play, does anyone use the alternate Awesome variants at all?  I've employed the -8T to pretty good effect and a buddy of mine ran an -8V that, much to my surprise, did pretty well, but outside of that I've never seen anyone push anything other than the -8Q.  Which I can understand, since it's the closest thing to sublime perfection in 3025, but I'm curious about others' experiences.

[Weirdo]

Can't say I've ever used them. I don't play 3025 all that much, and when I do and have a chance to bring an Awesome, I usually go for the peeps. Looking at the -8T though, it looks like it might be fun in a proto-Mauler kind of way.

You know what might be fun? Take a trio of Missile-Awesomes as an early-3050s fire lance, with the fourth mech an imported Raven. Play a game of 'Where the hell are all those missiles coming from!?', and if you do it right, even after finding your Awesomes, your opponent can spend a turn or two looking for the Catapults or Trebuchets you must have stashed somewhere. :)

[Sartris]

i've run the -8V. It basically plays like a slower, up-armored Zeus.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Buddy of mine used a 8T on me a few times. Its like a slow , fat Archer 2K that doesnt give a **** about heat and takes FOREVER to kill.

[Weirdo]

Welp, I'm convinced. :)

[Scotty]

I'd just like to take a moment and express my sincere appreciation for the fact that every single time I open this board, a FWL thread is at the top of it. :D

[False Son]

Well, it happens when we expand the boundries of the thread from mechs produced in the FWL to vehicles produced in other nations.  :P

Wrong thread.  Very FWL to accidentally shoot the wrong target.

Oh, those were on our side...

[MarikMilitaMan]

Well, it happens when we expand the boundries of the thread from mechs produced in the FWL to vehicles produced in other nations.  :P

Wrong thread.  Very FWL to accidentally shoot the wrong target.

Oh, those were on our side...

Not a problem, just a normal day in the life of the League.