Author Topic: Battleforce Transport Rules  (Read 2381 times)

LordVanquish

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Battleforce Transport Rules
« on: 08 December 2015, 17:39:44 »
So, a while back i picked up Strategic Operations mainly for the salvage/maintenance rules, but recently decided to try out battleforce with a friend. First game we used quick start rules and everything worked fine. Last game (using some of the advanced rules) i brought some jump-infantry with karnovs as transports and totally wrecked shit.
Basically i landed behind his mechs shot him in the rear with the +1 damage bonus and flew of the next turn before he could really harm them. So i payed ~1500 BV for 4 infantry platoons and 4 karnovs and wrecked 3 of his assault mechs with them alone while taking nearly no damage in return thanks to the karnovs high TMM.


So my question is: are the transport rules imbalanced or am i doing something wrong?

Things we might have done wrong:

we played with VTOLs having +1 for their movement types but i never saw it really mentioned in the rules

VTOLs still have their TMM when they are landed/at ground level

loading infantry, flying somewhere else unloading and then shooting as normal


Anything else we could have done wrong? We could have easily missed something obvious, because we are new to battleforce. If we have done everything correctly then battleforce seems where imbalanced if balanced by BV.

Hope you guys can help us :)

The Purist

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Re: Battleforce Transport Rules
« Reply #1 on: 17 December 2015, 13:06:33 »
I am relatively new to the updated SO manual myself but we have been playing BF2 since the old days. We recently have started playing battalion level test games from SO with combined arms. The members here have been quite helpful and may add or correct what I post below.

Were you using the newer the PV system based on the Master Unit List?   See http://masterunitlist.info/

This has updated values.

For example, a Karnov transport has a PV of 8 and a Jump platoon (ballistic) has a PV of 7. At the same time a Panther 9R has a PV of 20. So you are ahead in points and manoeuvre if not firepower. A monster like the Atlas 7-RS has PV of 48, so you could have had 3 Karnovs and 3 Jump Inf platoons for a PV of 45

Did you use the AA Rules?

If yes, then you may simply have defeated your opponent by using a combined arms force, a more flexible and mobile mixed force versus a heavy/assault mech force (too much firepower, too little manoeuvre). Your tactics may also have simply been better if your opponent did not protect his flanks. In the end though the economics of mixed forces does allow for more tactical flexibility.

A player willing to field a mixed mech and conventional force, though more fragile, may come out ahead due to more units and the flexibility that comes with numbers. Just don't have that Karnov take a hit from anything bigger than a Wasp. 

Battleforce has a different feel to it than does BT or AS but it is not imbalanced. As the scale is larger (usually battalions and up), flexible units are almost a must. As for TMMs,... should not an aircraft moving at a couple of hundred knots be harder to hit than a vehicle or mech moving at 50-60 kph?
« Last Edit: 19 December 2015, 18:06:30 by The Purist »
Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
1. HAVE FUN
2. DON'T LET YOURSELF GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THE RULES THAT YOU STOP HAVING FUN"
Page 168 - Reunification War

LordVanquish

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Re: Battleforce Transport Rules
« Reply #2 on: 05 January 2016, 17:34:40 »
Sorry for the late reply, i didn't check the forum in a while   :(

No we did use BattleValue, because we like to mod our units a little. Are there formulas for calculating PV? Also we looked at the MUL and found some things that are not described in the rulebook (rear damage, "0*" damage) but my copy of SO might be outdated. (going to check errata)

Cant find AA rules, what page are they on?

Of course a VTOL should be much harder to hit but if i land and get my troops out (aka being at ground level) does it still get its TMM?
Thinking about that, can VTOLs fly at ground level?

If it was just playing smart, what would be counter tactics? air superiority?

Thanks for your help  O0

The Purist

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Re: Battleforce Transport Rules
« Reply #3 on: 08 January 2016, 10:30:08 »
Quote from: LordVanquish
... No we did use BattleValue, because we like to mod our units a little. Are there formulas for calculating PV? Also we looked at the MUL and found some things that are not described in the rulebook (rear damage, "0*" damage)...

Rear damage is found on page 229 under the standard BF rules. The '0*' damage is a relatively new damage value added recently. A unit that has 0* damage value that scores a hit makes a subsequent  (1D6) and has a 50/50 chance of scoring 1 point of damage. 

Quote from: LordVanquish
... Cant find AA rules, what page are they on?

See page "Ground to Air Attacks" on page 234 but these apply to Aeorspace Units. As VTOL units are considered 'vehicles' they get the TMM described on the unit card. Sorry about that I'm still absorbing the SO manual myself.

Quote from: LordVanquish
... Of course a VTOL should be much harder to hit but if i land and get my troops out (aka being at ground level) does it still get its TMM?
Thinking about that, can VTOLs fly at ground level?

The first question is answered in note 1 of the "To Hit Modifier Table" on page 227, which states:

"Modifier is based upon available MP modified by heat level and critical hits if applicable. MP expended are irrelevant. Does not apply to aerospace Elements."

The answer to your second question is found on page 218 under the VTOL movement rules. VTOLs fly one level above the terrain in the hex but can climb higher by expending MPs for each level as long as it has MP.

Quote from: LordVanquish
... If it was just playing smart, what would be counter tactics? air superiority?

Possibly but the TMM is still there. If I don't have aerospace fighters I like a flight of veteran attavck helicopters. In the end, as I mentioned above (and just my opinion), if one side has a mixed mech/conventional force it likely has more tactical flexibility than just a mech force due to having more units on the map (usually). This numerical advantage imposes bad choices on the enemy - more targets than shots to deal with them.

BF and AS have a different mindset than Battletech. Personally I prefer the faster pace of BF/AS.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: 08 January 2016, 10:34:59 by The Purist »
Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
1. HAVE FUN
2. DON'T LET YOURSELF GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THE RULES THAT YOU STOP HAVING FUN"
Page 168 - Reunification War

nckestrel

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Re: Battleforce Transport Rules
« Reply #4 on: 08 January 2016, 11:11:09 »
Rear damage is found on page 229 under the standard BF rules.

He's referring to the REAR special ability, I think, that was introduced with the Alpha Strike Companion.  It's not part of BattleForce, though you could presumably use the same rules from ASC.
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

The Purist

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Re: Battleforce Transport Rules
« Reply #5 on: 09 January 2016, 00:23:30 »
Ah. In that case Lord Vanquish should see your explanation of 0* and other specials towards the bottom of this thread:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49778.0

Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
1. HAVE FUN
2. DON'T LET YOURSELF GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THE RULES THAT YOU STOP HAVING FUN"
Page 168 - Reunification War