“Save” the Jags

[Metallgewitter]

Tranquil? The setting for Mechwarrior 3 though I don't know if that is actual canon

[BATTLEMASTER]

Tranquil? The setting for Mechwarrior 3 though I don't know if that is actual canon

I think it was canonized in the novella that was based on MechWarrior 3.  It's been awhile since I've read it.

[Hellraiser]

Besides strana mechty what other possible knots of jag warriors would there have been in the homeworlds? Londerholm or perhaps one of the pentagon worlds?

IIRC the Jags had partial ownership / enclaves on...

Eden
Circe
Tranquil
Vinton
Londerholm


Well heck, Sarna gives us the following

Atreus, Circe, Eden, Homer, Kirin, Tranquil, and Vinton

So I was close, lol.

[Sjhernan3060]

IIRC the Jags had partial ownership / enclaves on...

Eden
Circe
Tranquil
Vinton
Londerholm

I know osis scrapped up whatever he could in a short time frame but that was strictly from strana mechty right? I know he was pressed for time. RE: the other worlds just listed can we assume that they were depleted as badly as the huntress garrison? I would not think so…


Well heck, Sarna gives us the following

Atreus, Circe, Eden, Homer, Kirin, Tranquil, and Vinton

So I was close, lol.

[Hellraiser]

I know osis scrapped up whatever he could in a short time frame but that was strictly from strana mechty right? I know he was pressed for time. RE: the other worlds just listed can we assume that they were depleted as badly as the huntress garrison? I would not think so…

Not sure where it all came from.
I would guess that the Jag Holdings didn't have much beyond Solahma.  (Infantry/Vees)
Something sure, but the Jags had major OZ territories to garrison & had been dealing w/ revolts in the OZ & predation in the Homeworlds & they were never a major industrial powerhouse, they didn't recover well from Tukayyid.
Given what the Wolves had I can't imagine the Jags having much more than a Galaxy covering the entire homeworlds outside of Huntress.

[Metallgewitter]

From the novels it sounds as if Osis flew to Huntress with whatever he could muster on Strana Mechty: sibko trainers, solahma and young cadets. There was no mention what happened to other forces beside the entry for the Xerxes. But also remember: there was Galax Commander Mehta who had withdrawn from the Is and rebuild the forces under her into a functioning galaxy. I would suspect that she also made stops at other Jaguar holdings to gather what was available. When Serpent struck Huntress there is no mention of any reinforcements coming from other holdings only the two Solahma galaxies (I think it was two) defending the planet. The first wave was then under the command oh Mehta followed later by Osis. I would have to check the novel but maybe Osis picked up whatever was left as well on his treck to Huntress

[Alan Grant]

Found perhaps a slightly useful snippet. Mechwarrior's Guide to the Clans (page 50) includes a sample character template for a "disgraced warrior." He's a Smoke Jaguar who fought in the Inner Sphere. It doesn't read like he was on Huntress, more like he was horrified to learn that the Spheroids had gotten there. It isn't clear where he was when it all went down. He reads like he had no way to get home (Huntress) and no one was willing to assist him. When Clan Smoke Jaguar died, he ends up in the dark caste. The way his background is written, he basically blames the Clans in general for turning their backs on Clan Smoke Jaguar. So he felt justified turning his back on the Clans.

We know several Jaguar warriors ended up as bandits/pirates/dark caste. Even 1-2 warships.

The Clan Smoke Jaguar page on Sarna has a subsection called Annihilation Survivors that covers the various accounts we have of former Jaguars popping up, often as bandits, pirate bands, even Solaris gladiators.

I think what happened here is the Clan died. The Jaguars were annihilated as of the Great Refusal. What was left at that point.. think of them like ronin, masterless warriors. Their stories vary a lot from person to person. The Clan was gone, and they scattered to the wind. Alone or in small groups.

What they didn't do (by all canon accounts), was try to defend the Clan's enclaves in the name of Clan Smoke Jaguar. Because the Clan was dead. Which is a great excuse for the other Clans to treat any remaining warriors like bandits anyway. To NOT to have to treat them like honorable warriors, and just steamroll them if they do stand and fight.

That's pretty consistent with canon events. Which always make it sound like in the aftermath of the Great Refusal the other Clans scooped up the Jaguar enclaves and didn't have to fight any Jaguars to do it. Most often they fought other Clans who had shown up to acquire those same enclaves. But there's no mention of any holdout Jaguar warriors having an Alamo moment.

That could change someday. There may be some unwritten stories in there of some holdout Smoke Jaguars. After all the story surrounding the Fidelis was only told in recent years, a very long time after the Twilight of the Clans novels were published.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I feel like this has come up before in this very thread at least a couple times over the years of it constantly coming back up. There is a line in Shadows of War that states Lincoln Osis brought everything the Jaguars had left to them to Huntress when he arrived. Full stop. However, there is Jaguar Star Colonel Notable Pilot for the Ebon Jaguar in TRO 3058U who apparently wasn't on Huntress but still was in the Homeworlds. Same book also mentions other Clans picked up some Turkinas and Night Gyrs for themselves picking over the ruins of Huntress and other Jaguar enclaves. FM:CC has a single line that the Mandrills on Atreus were beginning to probe Jaguar defenses after Huntress, in contrast to the Horses on Kirin who essentially just walked across their enclave borders and took over. All of these infer the presence of additional forces rather than anything we can directly observe, and I've long been of the opinion that the Jaguars had other forces in Clan space to Trial for what the Clan needed.

[Metallgewitter]

Also: during the Jihad the Blakists held several Jaguars imprisoned until they freed themselves and were collected by Stone's coalition. I think those became the basis for the Fidelis. (just my speculation though)

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Fidelis originated in surviving Jaguar Warriors and lower castes from the final fighting on Huntress journeying to the Wayside system and building a new society there until the Jihad. The Warriors on Yorii who liberated themselves, assembled into units, and presented themselves to be cut down while adhering to strict Zellbrigen appear to have been captured during Op Bulldog likely by the ComGuard or the DCMS. Stone swooped in and whisked the survivors away to parts unknown, and I don't think it's every been confirmed if this group and Stone's Shadows/The Fidelis ever met/merged though it seems likely.

[ColBosch]

The Fidelis originated in surviving Jaguar Warriors and lower castes from the final fighting on Huntress journeying to the Wayside system and building a new society there until the Jihad. The Warriors on Yorii who liberated themselves, assembled into units, and presented themselves to be cut down while adhering to strict Zellbrigen appear to have been captured during Op Bulldog likely by the ComGuard or the DCMS. Stone swooped in and whisked the survivors away to parts unknown, and I don't think it's every been confirmed if this group and Stone's Shadows/The Fidelis ever met/merged though it seems likely.

BLP was the "Jaguar guy," and with him gone it's going to fall to someone else to finish telling that backstory. He could've done it in Forever Faithful, but he needed to spend his precious wordcount on thinly-veiled references to modern-day issues.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I mean, you're not wrong about any of that, but I still hate to see him referred to as "the Jaguar guy." 

[BrianDavion]

Truthfully with BLP the reborn Jags would have been terriable. I'm looking forward to seeing a writer capable of nuance finding something fun to do with them

[Blkbr2020]

Trial Under Fire covers the MW3 story line and shows some Jag forces other than those on Huntress. It does not mention any of the other holding as far as I remember.

[Maingunnery]

Truthfully with BLP the reborn Jags would have been terriable. I'm looking forward to seeing a writer capable of nuance finding something fun to do with them

The Jags have been terrible ever since they became the Fidelis, there was never any hope.