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Author Topic: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine  (Read 1988 times)

Fireangel

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L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« on: 04 March 2016, 18:24:43 »
An oldie but goodie, I'm posting this now to compliment the other sub designs being posted.

Note that this is done by hand; if anyone wants to plug it into a cost/BV calculator, feel free to post the readout in this thread.

Yes. that is a 15-rated ICE.  ^-^


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L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine

Overview:

When the Lyran Commonwealth joined with the Federated Suns, a wealth of ideas flowed both ways, including placing C3 compounds underwater and defending them with submarines; however, is an unusual move for the Lyran military, the high command objected to the use of the 100-ton Neptune-class submarines used by the AFFC and its attendant specialized equipment (mainly because it took resources that were required by assault 'mech lines), so Wagner Industries of Skye (WIS) offered a solution; instead of a single large sub, which required a specialized dropship to transport, why not use several smaller subs that could be carried in the cargo bay of any dropship?

Thus was born the ever-vigilant "Doberman"; a single-crew underwater "fighter" deployed to defend underwater assets in a cheap and effective manner.

Capabilities:

Laid out like a fighter craft, the Doberman mimics many of the construction techniques of the significantly larger Neptune, such as double hull construction, periscopes, and a compact version of the SonarSync Tracker T&T system. The Wagner 15 Diesel/Hyperox is a very reliable engine commonly used in the underwater mining industry, so it is easy to maintain using off-the-shelf technology commonly available throughout the Inner Sphere, with a large body of qualified mechanics available in and out of the military, which is good, because the engine requires a significant amount of preventive maintenance to maintain its reliability.

The PentaSpear V torpedo system is a downsized Sea Devastator built locally under license, giving the L-5 unparalleled stand-off distance from potential targets. Two tons of ammo are considered excessive by some, but allowed for the possibility of multiple torpedo types, such as dead-fire missiles (DFM) or the naval FASCAM torpedoes being developed at the time. The superior underwater range of the PentaSpear does not risk return fire, which could be devastating, considering the lightness of the simple plate SeaSlab 1.5, which is highly resistant to corrosion, but provides minimally acceptable protection for the sub.

The "cockpit" is a pressure sphere in the fore part of the sub, allowing the sub to reach any depth a [i[Neptune[/i] can (on paper).

Weighing in at under 10 tons, several can be carried in cargo holds, mounted on trailers that can be easily driven to water for convenient (if not particularly fast) deployment. Hover or amphibious light cargo carriers can load one or more L-5s as cargo and embark on light vehicle bays, for fast deployment, dumping the subs upon reaching sufficiently deep water. Rumors in FWL military intelligence circles hint that the Lyran Commonwealth may be developing a light WiGE sub hunter capable of deploying two L-5s directly into the battlefield from a dropship in flight.

Variants:

The L-5P removes this second ton of ammo, using the tonnage gained to improve its underwater docking ring and provide seating for up to ten passengers in very cramped conditions, allowing the L-5P to double as a shuttle to the underwater facility.

The L-6 is a rare variant used to ambush attackers in narrow underwater canyons; it replaces the LRT-5 and ammo for a set of three SRT-2 launchers (two fore, one aft) sharing a single ton of ammo.

Code: [Select]
          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                  DESIGN MADE BY HAND

Type/Model:    L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3025
Config:        WiGE Vehicle
Rules:         Level 2, Standard design

Mass:          9 tons
Power Plant:   15 Wagner I.C.E. diesel/hyperox
Cruise Speed:  54 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 km/h
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:     
  1 LRT-5
Manufacturer:  Wagner Industries of Skye
  Location:    Skye, Lyran Commonwealth
Communications System:  TharHes Seaweed PG-2SS
Targeting & Tracking System:  SonarSync Tracker II

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
Mass:          9 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  1 pt Standard                 0      1,00
Engine:        15 ICE                        0      1,00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      0,00
    Cruise MP:   5
     Flank MP:   8
Heat Sinks:      0                           0      0,00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      0,50
Crew: 1                                      0      0,00
Diving Equipment:                            0      1,00
Armor Factor:  24 pts Standard               0      1,50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     1         10
   Left / Right Sides:        1        5/5
   Rear:                      1          4

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRT-5                  Fore     0   48     2      4,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          3      9,00
« Last Edit: 07 March 2016, 12:30:26 by Fireangel »

idea weenie

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #1 on: 04 March 2016, 21:09:32 »
Very nice little guy there, they would be annoying to see as swarms protecting an underwater base.

I take it you have read the book Sharuq, or Stingray?

Of course, having a safety feature so if anything goes wrong will cause the submarine to float is a good idea.

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #2 on: 04 March 2016, 22:09:54 »
Very nice little guy there, they would be annoying to see as swarms protecting an underwater base.

Worse than annoying, actually; hull breach rules totally suck when you have zero hope of hitting the out-of-your-range torpedo boat or even getting out of range.

Quote
I take it you have read the book Sharuq, or Stingray?

Actually, no. First I hear of them.


maxcarrion

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #3 on: 05 March 2016, 02:51:12 »
It's very nice, SAW thinks you're a ton underweight - I have plugged in the figures with a second ton of armour

Code: [Select]
Doberman L-5

Mass: 9 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Naval (Submarine)
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-C-C-A
Production Year: 2750
Cost: 108,855 C-Bills
Battle Value: 159

Power Plant:  15 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 54.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  LRT-5
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                       4 points                1.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                 15                       1.00
    Cruise MP:  5
    Flank MP:   8
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         0.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            1.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  40                  2.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     12       
                                          Left/Right   10/10       
                                                Rear     8         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRT-5                                        FR        2         1         2.00
@LRT-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      1    Points: 2
5s         1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  0
Special Abilities: EE


Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #4 on: 05 March 2016, 10:04:39 »
Thanks!  O0

It was not a ton underweight... you only put in only one ton of ammo...  ::)  ;D
(Or the 1-ton infantry compartment for the L-5P variant.)


I'll add that if using fractional accounting, there is still a quarter ton of space available, which can be used for cargo, a remote sensor dispenser, or (if using clantech) an ER Micro Laser.



............ wow... just 108,855 c-bills; that's 12,095 per ton... considering the range advantage, combined with the hull breach rules, that's a real bargain!
« Last Edit: 05 March 2016, 10:21:12 by Fireangel »

Daryk

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #5 on: 05 March 2016, 10:19:39 »
If you go up to 11 tons, you should have enough room for quarters for the (single) crewman.  Using a 25 rated fusion engine would also enable you to add a laser for truly high endurance patrols (while keeping both tons of ammo).

maxcarrion

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #6 on: 05 March 2016, 10:27:20 »
For a more expensive high endurance machine check out the 40T Marlin just a few threads away ;) this is the budget militia/swarm machine

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #7 on: 05 March 2016, 10:46:04 »
If you go up to 11 tons, you should have enough room for quarters for the (single) crewman.  Using a 25 rated fusion engine would also enable you to add a laser for truly high endurance patrols (while keeping both tons of ammo).

Absolutely; the whole point of the L-5 was to show what is possible with dirt-cheap low-end tech. SFE's improve endurance, larger chassis allow for more firepower or capability, and so forth.

I will admit though, I rather like the low-end tech and tiny size of this version; I've seen a single L-5 take out a full assault star all by its lonesome (yeah, the clan player did not use torpedoes, only energy weapons... with even ERLLs and ERPPCs falling short of the 21-hex range of the L-5's torpedoes...).

Lasers for this kind of unit are a bad idea, particularly using IS tech; to use it places the sub inside the range of any non-LRT beam weapon an opponent might have, and given the low armor rating and hull breach rules, that is a Bad Thingtm. 8)
« Last Edit: 06 March 2016, 16:38:55 by Fireangel »

Daryk

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #8 on: 05 March 2016, 10:52:36 »
I was thinking the laser would be useful for close in defense against infantry and BA (things its armor might actually stand up to).

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #9 on: 05 March 2016, 21:46:22 »
Best use for lasers is a small one on the nose (for SFE-equipped models) for dealing with barrier netting and maybe megafauna. UMU infantry is best dealt with by backing up and letting them "swim with the fishes"... all five tubes of 'em.

Simply put, most UMU infantry and BA simply don't have the range or the MP to be a threat.

No attack sub (like the L-5) should ever find itself on the surface fighting a surface battle; if it does, something seriously wrong has happened.

Daryk

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #10 on: 05 March 2016, 22:01:16 »
Aren't they still the easiest units to conceal, though?  And a small laser is just about all you can fit on the 11 ton version, at least if you want enough room for quarters.

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #11 on: 06 March 2016, 16:40:02 »
Why would you want to conceal the laser on a sub?  ???

Daryk

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #12 on: 06 March 2016, 16:53:29 »
I meant that infantry and BA are easy to conceal, hence there being a reason to have a close in defense (i.e., in case of a successful ambush).

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #13 on: 06 March 2016, 17:03:59 »
I meant that infantry and BA are easy to conceal, hence there being a reason to have a close in defense (i.e., in case of a successful ambush).

Considering the environment in which these subs operate (deep, open bodies of water with enough room to make the LRTs worthwhile), infantry ambushes are a non-issue.

Attack/escort subs like these should never find themselves in a position to be attacked by shore infantry; it's not much of an exaggeration to say that the likelihood of infantry ambush is about the same for an attack/escort sub as it is for an aerospace fighter.

Even if it is in such as situation where it cannot dive or flee (in a canal lock, for example), a small laser is not going to make much of a difference... even assuming the sub has a fusion engine upgrade.

Daryk

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #14 on: 06 March 2016, 17:09:33 »
Granted, it's designed for defensive use, but if it was used to attack a fixed facility underwater, it would make sense for the defenders to have some concealed pickets out at LRT range.  Definitely an edge case, but the kind that can drive acquisition decisions.

idea weenie

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #15 on: 06 March 2016, 18:17:57 »
Granted, it's designed for defensive use, but if it was used to attack a fixed facility underwater, it would make sense for the defenders to have some concealed pickets out at LRT range.  Definitely an edge case, but the kind that can drive acquisition decisions.

Now why am I getting ideas for small Castle Brians designed for underwater operation, with batteries of LRT and SRTs in them.  There was an older product that had a list of various forts that could be st up on the map, wish I could remember the name.  (One of the forts was a backstab style, with lots of SRMs on it but pointed inwards.)

Of course, a courteous defender would make sure all those underwater forts were remote controlled so their personnel had a place to hide in case of attack.  I.e. put the LRT base in hexes 1412 and 1416, and the manned control station in 1414.  The manned control base might be a weak point, but tossing enough armor on it will encourage the attacker to hit the weapons instead.

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #16 on: 06 March 2016, 22:47:30 »
An L-5 (or similar) would be a poor choice to actually attack a fixed underwater emplacement; the LRT-5 is excellent against 'mechs, subs, and surface boats, but really poor against buildings... even underwater ones.

Of course, escorting the boats actually doing the assault is another matter... but it is still hard to conceive of UMU infantry actually ambushing a sub.

maxcarrion

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #17 on: 24 March 2016, 13:33:34 »
hehe - been playing around, with only 1 ton of armour, 10 ton total weight and a fuel cell engine the Doberman MK II has a 10/15 movement profile, just in case you needed them to chase things or evade incoming torpedoes.

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #18 on: 24 March 2016, 14:49:44 »
hehe - been playing around, with only 1 ton of armour, 10 ton total weight and a fuel cell engine the Doberman MK II has a 10/15 movement profile, just in case you needed them to chase things or evade incoming torpedoes.
70-rated engine?

While still at 9 tons, you could go for a 60 rated engine and save a full ton (assuming ICE) over the 70, while still maintaining 10/15 MP. Using Fuel Cell engines, you's still save a half ton.

I know that the L-5 is pretty slow in comparison, but it is built around the 15-rated ICE, which is significantly more economical than a 70-rated ICE, and within its combat envelope, 5/8 is more than adequate.

Of course, once other underwater fighter-subs start showing up, things won't be so simple...  >:/!
« Last Edit: 24 March 2016, 14:54:54 by Fireangel »

maxcarrion

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #19 on: 25 March 2016, 03:59:58 »
Yeah, the L-5 is an excellent low cost attack sub that really requires a dedicated, higher cost attack sub to counter and even then can be deployed in obnoxiously large swarms

Fireangel

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #20 on: 25 March 2016, 10:40:33 »
It doesn't even need to be in large swarms. Want to give a powergamer fits? Watch him lose a full star of all-energy-armed assault omnis to a single L-5.   ::)

Voice of Experience  O0

Hellraiser

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #21 on: 04 April 2016, 20:59:20 »
Isn't there a rule somewhere in TM that Infantry Bays can't be used on subs?
I thought you had to give them quarters or something like that.
I swear I remember reading that.

I like this guy, reminds me of a small 25T sub I did that used a 45 SFE to escort Neptunes.

Though really, I just want a SFE Neptune with the firepower of the Standard & LRM models combine  >:D
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truetanker

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Re: L-5 "Doberman" Escort Submarine
« Reply #22 on: 05 April 2016, 22:45:41 »
TM pg. 239 Lists Battlemechs and Protomechs as restricted Infantry Transport Bay.

So no...

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