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Author Topic: Tell me about the...Avatar  (Read 4028 times)

Alan Grant

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Tell me about the...Avatar
« on: 25 April 2011, 11:05:24 »
A quick peak at the vast standard OmniKit options  (from close range brawler to Thunderbolt carrying artillery mech) has made me curious about this Omni. But I haven't used it at all.

Thoughts?
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Neufeld

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #1 on: 25 April 2011, 12:00:41 »
Well, neither has it really caught my interest, but a quick look on the record sheets gives the following impressions:
- Prime: Underwhelming. It is all over the place, and lack focus.
- A: Victor, a better Victor.
- B: While I do not like the mixing of two types of LRM launchers, it is a decent missile boat.
- C: A C3 master with a collection of long-range weapons. Decent if you like C3.
- D: Light gauss + MRM?! Seems like this variant needs a C3 spotter to avoid fail.
- E: A C3i variant that feels underwhelming.
- F: LB 20-X + ERPPC.  ??? Not in my taste.
- G: Dual Gauss, do I need to say more?
- H: Dual HPPC. See above. It also mounts two MML3 with Artemis  ??? Wasted tonnage to put Artemis on that.
- I: Not sold on the Thunderbolt.
- R: It is the Clan-tech version.

A, B, G and H gets my approval. C and R are useful but not something I would use. Prime, D, E, F and I are of questionable use.


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Ian Sharpe

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #2 on: 25 April 2011, 12:43:57 »
More a fan for its looks than anything else.  The B was a longtime fave config and for a while, my fave missile boat.  The biggest flaw is that the arms need some of the leg armour.  Its roomy and can handle the newer weapons pretty easy.

Demon55

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #3 on: 25 April 2011, 14:26:41 »
In my experience the Avatar is a pretty solid mech.  I have always liked the Prime and the C. 

gyedid

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #4 on: 25 April 2011, 17:03:55 »
The biggest flaw is that the arms need some of the leg armour.

This.  I was always irritated by how easy it was to lose arms with this 'Mech, particularly when facing Clan opponents.

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lowrolling

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #5 on: 25 April 2011, 18:13:27 »
Get rid of one of those CT mounted MLs and add some armor.
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Nightsong

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #6 on: 26 April 2011, 01:56:09 »
I've actually been kind of fond of the Avatar-E after I picked it to round out my C3i ComStar LII. I also seem to have a surprising amount of luck not jamming the UAC/10 on it, with the most amusing time using it was a Megamek game where I emptied all the bins and didn't jam it until the very last shot.

As for the hardmount MLs, I don't mind them one bit. They've got a good flavor reason to be there, and they aren't really wasted tonnage in my mind: a pair of MLs are always nice to fall back on if I'm trying to pull back, and at least they didn't get wasted on something silly like A-Pods or an SRM-2. Sure, 2 extra tons could come in handy to tweak some configs, but considering there are very few weapons as well rounded as a ML, I can't complain.

Maelwys

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #7 on: 26 April 2011, 04:29:43 »
I've always found it pretty well rounded. Could it be better? Sure. Its got 3 tons of fixed equipment (2xML and 2xCASE) which it doesn't have to have, but atleast there's a good reason for it, and atleast the equipment is useful. Its not the flashiest unit, but its a pretty solid design. Could the variants be improved? Sure, but then again, so could alot of `Mechs, and then we'd end up with lots and lots of clones.

Is the Prime some game breaking unit? No, but it fits in perfectly well with a lance, able to do just about anything from fire support, to watching out for pesky VTOLs, while still having firepower if someone tries to get in close.

The A is rather nice as well, though I have to admit, last time I used it, it was in a small, Solaris style arena, so I might be biased.

The B is perfectly serviceable as well. It can slip into an Archer's spot without too much of a loss in effectiveness (more missiles, less duration). Could it be better? Probably. But it still works out. Solid, but not flashy.

C and D are the obligatory C3Master and Slave variants. They're a little odd I'll grant you that.

E is interesting. A solid base unit for a c3i unit, which can keep firing until it is destroyed usually. Its also nice to have an ECM system to counteract anyone trying to cut off your c3i system. Has that nice obligatory ERPPC to let your spotter stay just out of ECM range and let you still be at short range.

The rest I haven't had a chance to use, but they look solid (But not always inspired).

Could it be better without fixed equipment? Sure. Does it lose too much? Not really. Is it going to be something I pick over everything else? Probably not. But its a solid workhorse design that I wouldn't mind having.

StCptMara

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #8 on: 26 April 2011, 05:19:59 »
For a first generation IS OmniMech, it is a decent design. In fact, I admit to a fondness for it. While some people disagree that
fluff reasons should make it into a design, the 2 standard Mediums I have found to be a nice piece of a equipment on it, simply
because of their low heat compared to the ER mediums that get shoved on everything nowadays. While its configurations are not
always the best, they are functional. And, unlike some other 'mechs I can think of*cough*Owens*cough* , it has Double Heat Sinks.

Of course, it shines when you take into account its pod space, but...honestly, it is a design where the designers were still figuring
things out. Out of the 1st Generation IS Omnis, I consider the Avatar one of the 4 jewels of the collection(the others being the Raptor,
the Black Hawk-KU, and the Sunder)
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TigerShark

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #9 on: 26 April 2011, 05:27:51 »
The Prime is pretty useful. The 2 x MPLs are an excellent deterrent for close combat. They're almost obligatory in the post-Invasion era due to the abundance of speedy stuff running about the field. The LB-10X can effectively counter this as well as crit-seek. The LRM-10s would have been nice without the silly Artemis, but that's life.

The A is the quintessential city fighter. Throw a 2 or 3 Gunnery in there and make things blow up quickly. Good ammo, good armor and nice crit-seeking potential. Lots of fun. :)

B is a real howler. But not because of the mixed LRM launcher sizes. It's that stupid Artemis again, sucking ammo away from the fire support 'Mech. And really, you can't find a vee to do the same thing? Next.

With C you get an invaluable C3 Master unit, of which there are VERY few in canon. The UAC/5 is a big waste of time (seriously guys, let's just throw this one in the can and add another PPC) but otherwise nice. And no Artemis! Yay!

D. Light Gauss Rifle. Yeah. Next.

The E SCREAMS to have some sort of big-damage item on it like a UAC/20, H-PPC or Gauss Rifle. What do we get? The UAC/10. Ugh... I suppose this could be useful, but is there any real reason for an ER PPC over a standard PPC? The range bracket matches up better with the LB-10X and it's more heat efficient. This way you get more... you know.. GUNS!!!!! (6 double heat sinks? The designers weren't even trying to make this half-way decent.) The one saving grace is the ECM Suite and you'd better PRAY you have Ghost Targets turned on. That is the only reason you'd even have this monstrosity on the field and you have to waste a 3 Pilot to even make it work. This requires a sad face.

F. Again. 15 Double Heat Sinks. Why? Because the designers didn't want to make the 'Mech good. Plain and simple. No other reason for this idiocy to exist THAT late into the Invasion. No thanks.

H suffers from the Artemis douchebaggery the designers seemed to be obsessed with. Otherwise, I think you need to go back to the boxed set if you can't make use of dual Heavy PPCs. This REALLY reminds me of a BKX- upgrade from the Age of War. Why wasn't THIS the Jihad-era BKX instead of that retarded missile thing we got?

I. Hmm. This is kind of neat since we don't see the Thunderbolt launchers around very often. This gets a pass and probably a few uses just for fun's sake.

God I hate machines like this. The R uses that goofy BV loop to make the machine less effective but still charge us the nice, high price for a nearly ammoless weapon (the MRM-40, I mean, and its 6 shots). They really couldn't have gone with the MRM-30 and some C3 Slaves or ECM Suites here? It's common sense, really. Designs like this make me want to bang my head on the wall.
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Neufeld

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #10 on: 26 April 2011, 07:15:57 »
I really do not get the love that the Prime is getting.  IS MPLs on a non-jumping unit? LRM10s with Artemis IV? Machine Guns? The only good things on it are the fixed mediums and the LB 10-X. ???

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We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

jymset

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #11 on: 26 April 2011, 08:33:59 »
God I hate machines like this. The R uses that goofy BV loop to make the machine less effective but still charge us the nice, high price for a nearly ammoless weapon (the MRM-40, I mean, and its 6 shots). They really couldn't have gone with the MRM-30 and some C3 Slaves or ECM Suites here? It's common sense, really. Designs like this make me want to bang my head on the wall.

12 shots for the MRM40. Still, it lacks C3 and the Clan Gauss only has 8 shots. #P Myself, I'd have yanked the SSRM4 for C3s, 1 ton Gauss ammo, and at least one extra DHS. And maybe even downgraded the MRMs as you suggest for even more DHS, but that's a matter of taste. I like MRM40s...

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Maelwys

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #12 on: 26 April 2011, 08:50:56 »
I really do not get the love that the Prime is getting.  IS MPLs on a non-jumping unit? LRM10s with Artemis IV? Machine Guns? The only good things on it are the fixed mediums and the LB 10-X. ???

Its a good all around lance member. It can handle infantry under the new rules. It can provide limited fire support, or take out VTOLs or crit vehicles out. If Battle Armor gets close, it has to deal with MPLs and MLs. It may not be the best, but it can be slipped into almost any lance and fit right in.

The E SCREAMS to have some sort of big-damage item on it like a UAC/20, H-PPC or Gauss Rifle. What do we get? The UAC/10. Ugh... I suppose this could be useful, but is there any real reason for an ER PPC over a standard PPC? The range bracket matches up better with the LB-10X and it's more heat efficient. This way you get more... you know.. GUNS!!!!! (6 double heat sinks? The designers weren't even trying to make this half-way decent.) The one saving grace is the ECM Suite and you'd better PRAY you have Ghost Targets turned on. That is the only reason you'd even have this monstrosity on the field and you have to waste a 3 Pilot to even make it work. This requires a sad face.

I dunno. Its supposed to stick back and use the c3i to drop in ERPPC and UAC10 shots. When the TN gets low enough, double tap the UAC and try to get in that much more damage (of course, c3i offers no help to the limited chance of getting the second shot to hit for the UAC...but that's a system problem that probably needed to be changed with TW). I will admit to it being overheat sinked since it seems to be trying to pass itself off as an Alpha baby, especially with the disparate ranges.

I don't think it can really pull off a really large main gun without suffering too much due to the lack of jump jets.

LastChanceCav

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #13 on: 26 April 2011, 10:03:31 »
Like a few of the previous posters I feel the Avatar is a nice all around heavy. While not a world-beater by itself it can find itself a role in just about any heavy or assault unit, depending on the configuration. While fixed equipment always bothers me on an omnimech, I at least like the fluff reasons for it being there on the Avatar. Another nice thing about the Avatar is its generous pod space (in terms of both free mass an crits) if you like to use custom configurations.

Cheers,
LCC
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TigerShark

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #14 on: 26 April 2011, 11:46:43 »
I really do not get the love that the Prime is getting.  IS MPLs on a non-jumping unit? LRM10s with Artemis IV? Machine Guns? The only good things on it are the fixed mediums and the LB 10-X. ???

IS MPLs on a non-jumping unit. Yes. Jump into MegaMek and I'll show you how bad that can be for ya. :)
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Iron Mongoose

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #15 on: 27 April 2011, 02:27:43 »
The Avatar was one of the 3058 omnis that really was going with the flow, and sort of lucked into an emerging trend of slow heavies, rather than taking the route of the other 3058 mechs and trying too hard to emulate the 3050 Clan omnis.  The focus on pod space at the expense of speed has meant that the Avatar was better able to adapt to changing times.  More over, its basic configs showcased a lot more cool tech than many of the other mechs of its era (the level 1 weapons on the Sunders come to mind) with lots of fire controll, pod mounted jets, C3, the works. 

But, like most of the class of 58, and with many omnis in general, its been new configurations that have really made the Avatar usable in modern battles.  Its definatly worth a look.
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TigerShark

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #16 on: 27 April 2011, 02:32:03 »
The other thing to remember here is that it's an OmniMech, not a BattleMech. That means it's customizable for different scenarios. In reality, there may be one or two Omnis a MOST which are truly "bad" designs. The rest can be optimized to the mission.

If you choose to adhere to the canon configurations, that's your problem. Not the OmniMech's. :)
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #17 on: 27 April 2011, 20:58:21 »
Actually I consider the Avatar Prime to be a quasi Orion load out, with MPLs replacing the SRMs.

As for the Delta, that isn't a firesupport machine, it is a linesman design.  Use the LGR to support the network as you move in position and the lasers and MRMs either from the edge of their range, or to stiff arm anyone making a run at the Master(s).

The Beta is an Archer on steroids, giving up rear MLs for 25% larger salvos and extra ammo (12 salvos of 50, and another 4 of 30), OR match an ARC-4M in ammo endurance, throw a salvo a quarter again his size, and pack one ton of LRM-15 ammo with specialty rounds.

Looking at it the Avatar can fill in for most of the classic heavy mech designs if you juggle the loadout right.

iamfanboy

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Re: Tell me about the...Avatar
« Reply #18 on: 28 April 2011, 00:58:39 »
I don't mind the Avatar myself, but it's my friend who really went nuts for it.

He loved the Avatar so much he went online and bought the mini - not knowing, of course, that it wasn't usable in the SW-era campaign I was running at the time.

Not wanting to turn away my obviously eager friend, I created two low-tech versions of the Avvie (one based on the Prime, one based on the A) and the A version was an especial game-changer. Without really thinking about it (just following what I could from the listed Config weapons and dropping what I couldn't keep) it was, indeed, an improved Victor. Not that the A version was terrible, mind (an AC/10, 2 LRM-10s, and 3 MLs is nothing to sneer at in 3025) but he picked that AC/20 version and I'm sure he still has the kitbashed version on a shelf out of the reach of his toddler...

Man, I miss playing with him.