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Author Topic: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag  (Read 7377 times)

Caedis Animus

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #30 on: 23 October 2016, 03:18:31 »
Uh... Yeah. This is supposed to be for Der Tag equipment, Col Toda.
Berserker D4s are the Doom Slayer of Battletech; Change my mind.

Col Toda

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #31 on: 23 October 2016, 10:11:12 »
Regrets , thought this post was about new or orphan battech equipment and derfrag  was a design label like skunk works and the post wanted submissions from the context from the previous posts . Apparently I misinterpreted want was wanted as feedback.

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #32 on: 23 October 2016, 20:48:53 »
Uh... Yeah. This is supposed to be for Der Tag equipment, Col Toda.

Thanks Caedis_Animus :)

And it's no big deal, Col Toda. There is nothing wrong with your ideas. You should feel free to repost them in your own thread :)
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #33 on: 28 May 2017, 21:34:15 »
Let's kick the dust off with some artillery weapons!

Feedback welcome as always.

Arrow-3 Cell
Heat: 10
Damage: 40/20/10/5 R3 (Barrage of cooperative, semi-guided, bomblet-dispensing rockets)
Range: 15 Maps (24 km in Der Tag Scale)
Mass: 8 Tons
Critical Spaces: 5
Cost (in C-Bills, Equivalent): 180,000
Availability: CED
Notes: Single-Shot, Artillery barrage missile system, Cannot be targeted at targets less than 1 map away.

The Arrow-3 Cell was a weapon first deployed in June of 2012 with American Troops, but it’s employment was always limited. Arrow-3 artillery units hung around in frontline service until their retirement from the Terran Hegemony Army in 2493, whereafter they persisted in limited use in odd corners until their extinction during the Amaris Conflict.

More recently, the design of the Arrow-3 has been rediscovered and is favoured in contrast to less advanced Multiple Rocket Launcher systems among some smaller, less-advanced powers. In addition, Arrow-3 systems have been discovered in use in very small numbers with some deep periphery powers, including the former Nueva Castille, Alfirk and the Jarn Folk. Technologically; the larger scale of the Arrow III system in many ways makes it easier to produce than other, more advanced weapons bearing similar features; whether or not they are related to the Arrow-3.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #34 on: 28 May 2017, 21:35:38 »
Arrow-IV System
Heat: 10
Damage: 30D, 20/10 R1 (High-Explosive, General Purpose. HEGP)
Range: 8 Maps (12.8km in Der Tag Scale)
   Clantech Version: 9 Maps ( 13.5km in Der Tag scale)
Ammunition: 5 shots/ton
Mass: 15 Tons
   Clantech Version: 12 Tons
Critical Spaces: 15
   Clantech Version: 12
Cost (in C-Bills, Equivalent): 450,000
Availability: EFE
   Clantech Version: XFE
Notes: Huge variety of alternate munitions

The Arrow IV system was developed by the Terran Hegemony in 2600 from a series of guided artillery missile systems and has remained a standard of mobile artillery; excepting it’s extinction during the succession wars, to this day. Functionally, it is a highly versatile auto-feeding launcher for long-range guided artillery missiles. Depending on the specific design in use, some types use either a single tube reloaded after every shot, or multiple tubes, all in various stages of the reloading process through an extremely reliable and robust ammunition handling system---the focus of the Terran hegemony’s 26th Century development program. The high heat of the missile launch is the systems only failing, making multiple launches from the same launcher, at the same time impossible, though this also makes things easier on the Targeting and Tracking systems.

The missiles themselves can be one of several configurations or types depending on role and manufacture. The only real limitation is on use of Clan munitions, whose improved rocket motors burn too hot for spheroid launchers.

The Clan version of the Arrow IV Launcher is the only artillery piece which has survived with them in any number to the present day. The Clan version, which could properly be called the Arrow V represents a progressive development of the Arrow IV Launcher system, being lighter in weight and using improved propulsion systems in the missiles to ensure a slightly longer range.

But the Clan Arrow IV has always been a maligned weapon, almost always limited to specialized chassis and rarely deployed even then, recent developments in new ammunition may change this however, as the new specialist rounds encountered by SOG forces during OP Munin demonstrated.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #35 on: 28 May 2017, 21:38:45 »
Arrow-V System
Heat: 12
Damage: 35D 25/15/5 R2 (High-Explosive, General Purpose. HEGP)
Range: 20 Maps (32km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 3 shots/ton
Mass: 16 Tons
Critical Spaces: 13
Cost (in C-Bills, Equivalent): 620,000
Availability: XXE
Notes: Incorporates a TAG system.

The Arrow-V is a joint project between unlikely bedfellows; the Capellan Confederation and Clan Hell’s Horses. The idea is to apply Clan Technology to create not a smaller weapons system, but a better one than the Hegemony-vintage Arrow-IV.

Just entering serial production in the Capellan Confederation, following a proof-of-concept run-up of lines for the Clan-Tech Arrow-IVs, six years ago, the Arrow-V is also an important technological accomplishment for the Capellans and considered an important step in their drive to keep up with advanced on Clan Tech in the Federated Suns.

The heart of the system is the new missiles; these are larger, more powerful and much longer-reaching than most Arrow-IV missiles.

Feeding and safely launching these missiles came at a price in raw mass, but the new system is much less bulky than it might be.

Deployment of the Arrow-V will supplement the trickle of Clan A4-equipped Catapults and Catapult IIs which have finally begun to replace the last of the 40s-vintage CPLT-C3s in CCAF service. By contract, half the output is supposed to go to the Horses, but their shipments are still mostly sitting in depots on their worlds. The Horse’s Scientists and Techs didn’t think the Capellans were really up to their end of the project and have been caught unprepared by the sudden shipments of war-ready weapons.

As of now; the Horses are scrambling to fit their Arrow-Vs into second and 3rd-hand Missile Carrier chassis purchases wholesale from the Diamond Sharks, but there are plans to fit them eventually to the Hadur, as well as a new heavy, possibly omni-artillery vehicle still on the drawingboard. This will be based on either the Mars or Huitzilopochtil, but is still at the concept stage at this time.

The 3rd League has received three Arrow-V systems from their allies for evaluation purposes, but further exports from the Capellan Confederation are prohibited by the Chancellor for the next 15 years and the Hell’s Horses are still building their own production facility, at an undisclosed location.

Meanwhile, production of the older Arrow-IV (in the form of the Luxor Mobile Battery version) continues right alongside the Class-16 Clan version and their new Stable-mate; the Luxor Arrow-V, on Menke.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #36 on: 29 May 2017, 22:51:10 »
Arrow-IV+ (Sei Rin: Storm from the Clear Sky)
Heat: up to 50 in 10pt increments.
Damage: 30D, 20/10 R1 (High-Explosive, General Purpose. HEGP)/ per missile
Range: 8 Maps (12.8km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 1 shot/ton
Mass: 16 Tons
Critical Spaces: 16
Cost (in C-Bills, Equivalent): 680,000
Availability: XXF
Notes: Roll to hit and scatter as normal for first missile. Add 1 to your to-hit result for each additional missile and scatter accordingly. Takes five turns to reload completely. The Arrow-IV+/ Sei Rin system will always fire five missiles by preference of any type of Arrow-IV missile which is loaded, but it may be fired with less than a full load, if so desired by the pilot.

On a roll of 2, when firing two or more missiles, something (heat, recoil, over-stressing the reloading mechanism, ect) damages the launcher and it cannot fire again until repaired.



The Sei Rin is, in fact; a “Hacked” Arrow IV Launcher developed by the Draconis Combine to offset their deficiency in artillery by providing their limited systems with massive shock firepower. The downsides to the system are obvious, but so are the perks.

Easily mounted on a mech, but difficult to employ to it’s full potential; the modifications are a state secret, but thought to be mechanically and electronically trivial. The weapon itself is somewhat unstable; this is the price for the simplistic modifications, but on a mech or fighter the dangers from over-heating are potentially catastrophic. A prototype exists mounting two on the Combine’s reliable O’Bakemono chassis, but it is impossible to fire all five tubes from both launchers with any degree of safety.

Much more stable are the DCMS’s modified Demolisher A4s, mounting the Sei Rin system in pairs.

Essentially; the Sei Rin is an Arrow-IV launcher that fires up to five missiles at a time. Besides the heat generated and potential damage to the launcher from firing more than one missile at a time; the ammunition handling equipment has *not* been upgraded. While the Combine scientists have attempted to speed up the cycling, this has only further reduced reliability and increased the frequency and duration of overhauls of the system.

The Sei Rin can handle any Inner Sphere-made Arrow-IV Missile, even a nuclear one. But this also means it shares the same short range as the standard Arrow-IV System.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Nebfer

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #37 on: 13 June 2017, 15:12:01 »
You might want to note that your droptank is a modified version of the regular B-tech one, which only holds 40 units (a half ton) of fuel not 80 (a full ton).

Do like giving the Lt.AtA missiles some buffs and making it more distinct from the AtA Arrow (though what do you mean 5 boards for range?)

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #38 on: 13 June 2017, 22:11:40 »
You might want to note that your droptank is a modified version of the regular B-tech one, which only holds 40 units (a half ton) of fuel not 80 (a full ton).

Do like giving the Lt.AtA missiles some buffs and making it more distinct from the AtA Arrow (though what do you mean 5 boards for range?)

That's a good idea; some of the gear here is just different from how it is in canon, not new.

Well normally on...what do we call it now? Name escaping me...the ground support map(?); the map for keeping track of where ASF are in an atmosphere by keeping a hexmap where each hex is a BT map (15 hexes x 17) in size. Their own weapons ranges stay the same as in BT; so mostly they need to be adjacent to eachother to attack; but the AAMs have longer ranges that permit stand-off engagements to take place. Such as 5 boards/maps/hexes away. This is unlike in space where the weapons ranges extend to their practical maximums in vacuum.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Nebfer

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #39 on: 14 June 2017, 00:11:17 »
Ah so about 40ish km, as a hex at the "fighter scale" is equal to a ground scale map sheet (so ~500m in diameter), which makes each map sheet about 8km in diameter.

Interestingly space to ground fire through atmosphere cuts the range by 6, so in theory the medium range of the "air to air" missiles (12 hexes or 216km) would get cut down to 2 hexes (or 36km)...

Also 40km is not to bad for a missile that has to have enough energy to nail a fighter with 7+Gs of acceleration capability's from all angles and altitudes (head on vs tail chases can easily have a difference of 3x in terms of range). Never mind the fact that per the rules B-tech fighters can have 13 to 30Gs of turning performance (I'm not referring to their acceleration rates here but the effects of their turning circles).

Also never mind that the missile is traveling at like 4+km/s (~mach 12ish, to reach 40km in 10 seconds or less), and that real missiles typically have 2-3 minute travel times not 10 seconds... Give it 60 seconds and one could see 200+km ranges (funny enough it's space range...), in effect off map artillery for aircraft...

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #40 on: 14 June 2017, 06:25:07 »
You got it!

It makes a BT-feasible AIM-54 Phoenix (50km range) seem doable. But imagine how you'd do a Battletech version of the R-33 or R-37? Those have ranges in the 300-400km...range...
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Nebfer

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #41 on: 15 June 2017, 00:48:34 »
Well the AIM-54 has a range of ~200 km (100 Nmi)

Though as I mentioned firing at low altitude? notably reduced range, against a fleeing target? notably reduced range... maneuvering target...

And as for the R-33 & 37
Again the same things apply, also note that B-tech units can move much much faster than their real world counter parts (and by in large these very long ranges are likely for unmaneuvering large slow targets (i.e. bombers or other similar sized targets...)).

As for simulating the ranges well also keep in mind, that at the scale B-tech "dog fights" take place at most real world missiles are largely still in their boost phase (or just out of it), this being 10 seconds (turns), real missiles reaching out to their max ranges will take a few minutes (most of it being an unpowered glide).

Basically use artillery/barrings only launch (for capital missiles) rules, an AtA Missile has a range of say 30 map sheets but it travels say 5 map sheets per turn, once at the target area (designated map) it enters the terminal phase and the player roles for the to hit as per normal. If you like you could also have the missile as it's traveling have coarse corrections (as it adjusts it's trajectory from input from the launch plane (or it's own seeker)), so that it's likely to be in the map of the aircraft being engaged (and not like 2 sheets behind it). Even so once on the map role for to hits as normal and if it misses well it misses (call it a soft kill (I.e. ECM)).

The R-33/37 has a top speed of Mach 6, which is about 1.7km/s, as such reaching the 37s max range of ~400km will take 5-6 minutes.

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #42 on: 15 June 2017, 17:59:12 »
I stand corrected!

I thought about travel time for AAMs, but one of the things holding air support back in BT is complexity; so I wanted to lean away from anything that would make for more things to keep track of.

I figured a 5 board range and a 1-turn flight explained the difference in the ATA Arrow and the standard version, for instance. Or maybe I was confused that day between that concept and artillery flight times.

You could just never use a normal A4 in a trailing shot; a target could just out-run it.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #43 on: 08 June 2019, 00:31:08 »
Flurry Small MRL
Heat: 3
To-Hit Modifier: +2
Damage: 7/7/6 R2, each of 4
Range: 6 maps (9.6km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition:  One-Shot
Mass:  6
Critical Spaces:  5
Cost (in C-Bills, Equivalent):  145,000
Availability: XXE

Notes: Multiple Rocket Launchers are inaccurate weapons, in general by design; intended to denude a wide area with high explosives.

To manage MRL attacks (Especially barrages by whole batteries, ect) it is suggested to calculate the first attack normally under the standard scatter rules. Use this as the point of aim. Calculate scatter with the to-hit modifier included. Apply the subsequent hits (each representing multiple rockets falling in a pattern) using the scatter rules, with the to-hit modifier applied. This should produce a very wide area of effect.

MRLs use the same flight times as Cruise Missiles; Divide by 5 and round down.


Hailstorm Medium MRL
Heat: 7
To-Hit Modifier: +1, +2 to scatter rolls
Damage: 12/12/10 R2 each of 6
Range: 35 maps (56km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition:  One-Shot
Mass:  16
Critical Spaces:  10
Cost (in C-Bills, Equivalent): 225,000
Availability: XXE

Hurricane Large MRL
Heat: 12
To-Hit Modifier: 0 for initial hit. Apply +2 to Scatter rolls.
Damage: 20/20/20/10 R3 each of 3
Range: 112 maps (70km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition:  One-Shot
Mass:  25
Critical Spaces:  18
Cost (in C-Bills, Equivalent): 480,000
Availability: XXE

MRLS were developed by the Calderon Protectorate as a means to rapidly lay down punishing artillery barrages from a small number of units that any reasonable opponent would be strongly averse to weathering. Extensive public demonstrations were held, which Taurian Intelligence naturally became aware of almost immediately. The new MRL units help, but they can hardly change the fact that the TDF grows stronger, in relation to the Calderon Pact forces daily and the former TCS Vendetta remains the only real standing deterrent to a full-scale invasion.

At current, small numbers of Flurry systems are deployed with Protectorate infantry forces in a field role, with larger numbers mounted on trucks and assigned to lighter, more mobile mechanized units and some light armoured forces. Demand for the Flurry has been high, as the intended Table of Organization for these units was adjusted well into the planning for the production phase of the deployment of MRL weapons and the original plans could not meet the increased requirements from the Protectorate Armed Forces.

Hailstorm launchers are installed on heavy trucks and deployed in independent artillery battalions of 36 launchers and distributed to support the Protectorate’s various heavy forces of all kinds. In practice, this means that any large formation from a regiment in size on up might be able to call on several batteries of these intimidating weapons at any given time. These battalions are regularly rotated around to different duty stations to give different units experience in their use and to keep the Protectorate’s enemies off guard. There are plans at current to assign dedicated Hailstorm Batteries to select mech and tank formations once the goals for equipping the independent battalions are met. If the protectorate has that much time though, remains to be seen.

All the Hurricane Systems are concentrated in a single super-heavy artillery regiment, intended to be deployed en masse against a specific operational objective or strategic threat. This Regiment, when fully manned and fitted-out will comprise 72 Hurricane systems mounted on their distinctive very large wheeled chassis, derived from the old Star League’s mobile Santa Ana system. To make it fully effective, it will need its own JumpShips and DropShips and so far, this is proving a hurdle for the Protectorate’s meagre military transport command. There are no spare jumpships available at current: but while understrength, the Regiment is able to move itself fully and quickly around the Erod’s Escape system in a mixed collection of various stock and modified vehicle carriers.

Only very limited export sales have been made by the Protectorate to their closest allies; they simply cannot produce enough launchers and ammunition to support their own needs, let alone large export orders. While the cash would be welcome, the Calderon Protectorate is equally reticent to license production elsewhere; trading away a valuable bargaining chip which might be sorely needed in the future and expanding the risk of having their own inventions turned against them.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

RifleMech

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #44 on: 08 June 2019, 08:24:55 »
I need to learn more about hand-helds and how they work. Honestly I'm considering changing all the custom designs I have that are originally from the Macross/Dougram line and thus have hand-held weapons in the art to have hand-helds in my designs. Only works though if the weight I save in the hand-held lets me up the engine enough to make up for the loss. But then what am i really getting but a jettisonable weapon to gain mobility and a much more expensive platform?

If I was to look at the LAM thing though...I'd consider dumping the "Can't use" bomb ordnance while in mech mode. I see where you're going though and I like the way you think.

Those aspects of full-spectrum warfare in BT are important and very much so in Der Tag, but the focus remains on where the war is won: on the ground. Even if I do add a lot of stuff to air power, it's still partly to make for better CAS.

Basically, its a ballistic cannon with a ton of ammo and maybe some armor that's carried in the hands as cargo. You could allow LAMs to carry external cargo in Fighter mode and to allow the AirMech to use it with one hand. You'd be limited to a gun pod that weighed 5% of the LAMs weight though. Or if the LAM were large enough it could mount a 10 ton container pod and carry the gun pod inside it.


Personally, I'd build the gun pods as one would hand held physical weapons and have the same rules apply. That would allow gun pods to be used by one hand, dropped, picked up, and exchanged.

 

idea weenie

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #45 on: 09 June 2019, 21:32:18 »
Basically, its a ballistic cannon with a ton of ammo and maybe some armor that's carried in the hands as cargo. You could allow LAMs to carry external cargo in Fighter mode and to allow the AirMech to use it with one hand. You'd be limited to a gun pod that weighed 5% of the LAMs weight though. Or if the LAM were large enough it could mount a 10 ton container pod and carry the gun pod inside it.

Personally, I'd build the gun pods as one would hand held physical weapons and have the same rules apply. That would allow gun pods to be used by one hand, dropped, picked up, and exchanged.

The fun part will be if you want the gun pod to be usable when in ASF mode.  That will need a wireless connection to control the gun (fairly easy), and structural connections so the gun doesn't rip loose due to recoil (fairly hard).  Unless you want the gun pod to be perma-mounted on the Mech's arm (off-balance?).

This will be quite fun to figure out.  The only problem is that the smallest autocannon is the Light AC/2, with 1 ton of ammo providing 45 shots.  So a single LAC/2 and 1 ton of ammo would make a nice 5 ton gun pod.  Now if you decided instead of mount multiple machine guns (light, regular, or heavy) in the gun pod, with each having a dedicated ammo supply (each one gets a fixed number of shots), that could be interesting.  I.e. imagine a Gun pod with six Machine guns, and .5 tons of ammo mean each Machine Gun has 16 shots (FRD).  If one of those Machine Guns gets damaged, its shots cannot be sent to another Machine Gun, unlike if the Machine Guns were mounted on a Mech.

Or multiple Vehicle Flamers for the BBQ special.

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #46 on: 09 June 2019, 22:07:02 »
So, I looked much more into the Handheld weapons and thing and while cool---I'd have to seriously break the rules to do what I wanted to do; which was take the Dougram/Macross unseens; remove the pistol-weapons from the designs; make them that much better in performance and then make handheld weapons giving them back what I just took out.

That dog will not hunt.

At the extreme end; my BattleMaster has dual ERPPCs in that arm-mount. By the book; I need 30 tons of Heatsinks in the Handheld to do that. At the lighter end; I could just maybe give my Wolverine back it's UAC/5 with 1 ton of ammo and 1 ton of armour...but why? Nor can I do what I really wanted; make a faster PXH that can port around it's ERLL at 6/9; because that's a 16-ton handheld before I add armour.

It's too darn bad, but frankly there is enough I am already willing to let LAMs do in this AU, that at least I can say that the handheld was never more than a *nice to have* for that. And I am really happy with my other Dougram/Macross mechs already. This was just a maybe to make them even better.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

RifleMech

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #47 on: 09 June 2019, 23:30:43 »
The fun part will be if you want the gun pod to be usable when in ASF mode.  That will need a wireless connection to control the gun (fairly easy), and structural connections so the gun doesn't rip loose due to recoil (fairly hard).  Unless you want the gun pod to be perma-mounted on the Mech's arm (off-balance?).

This will be quite fun to figure out.  The only problem is that the smallest autocannon is the Light AC/2, with 1 ton of ammo providing 45 shots.  So a single LAC/2 and 1 ton of ammo would make a nice 5 ton gun pod.  Now if you decided instead of mount multiple machine guns (light, regular, or heavy) in the gun pod, with each having a dedicated ammo supply (each one gets a fixed number of shots), that could be interesting.  I.e. imagine a Gun pod with six Machine guns, and .5 tons of ammo mean each Machine Gun has 16 shots (FRD).  If one of those Machine Guns gets damaged, its shots cannot be sent to another Machine Gun, unlike if the Machine Guns were mounted on a Mech.

Or multiple Vehicle Flamers for the BBQ special.


The way we've done is to mount it and rule gun pods are treated the same way as physical weapons. That way the gyro takes care of the balance. It also gets you around all the external cargo rules. You could also modify the jetisonable weapon quirk so jettisoned weapons can be picked up and used.

So, I looked much more into the Handheld weapons and thing and while cool---I'd have to seriously break the rules to do what I wanted to do; which was take the Dougram/Macross unseens; remove the pistol-weapons from the designs; make them that much better in performance and then make handheld weapons giving them back what I just took out.

That dog will not hunt.

At the extreme end; my BattleMaster has dual ERPPCs in that arm-mount. By the book; I need 30 tons of Heatsinks in the Handheld to do that. At the lighter end; I could just maybe give my Wolverine back it's UAC/5 with 1 ton of ammo and 1 ton of armour...but why? Nor can I do what I really wanted; make a faster PXH that can port around it's ERLL at 6/9; because that's a 16-ton handheld before I add armour.

It's too darn bad, but frankly there is enough I am already willing to let LAMs do in this AU, that at least I can say that the handheld was never more than a *nice to have* for that. And I am really happy with my other Dougram/Macross mechs already. This was just a maybe to make them even better.

They're being broken is why we've treated gun pods as physical weapons.

As for the BattleMaster's PPC, its being a twin barrel is; A cosmetic, B a special PPC That could fire full or half blasts serving as the inspiration for the light PPC, or C its an hand held gun pod using 2 Infantry PPCs at 1 ton each and 2 heat sinks for a total of 4 tons.


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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #48 on: 09 June 2019, 23:58:51 »

The way we've done is to mount it and rule gun pods are treated the same way as physical weapons. That way the gyro takes care of the balance. It also gets you around all the external cargo rules. You could also modify the jetisonable weapon quirk so jettisoned weapons can be picked up and used.

They're being broken is why we've treated gun pods as physical weapons.

As for the BattleMaster's PPC, its being a twin barrel is; A cosmetic, B a special PPC That could fire full or half blasts serving as the inspiration for the light PPC, or C its an hand held gun pod using 2 Infantry PPCs at 1 ton each and 2 heat sinks for a total of 4 tons.

Really; I'm cool with it. Not every idea works out.

Although, with my BattleMaster; more big energy guns is the route I went with it as a modern-tech machine, rather than something like the Gauss Rifle, so it works out okay anyways.

Although; if I ever had a few spare; I'd like to model a Red Corsair Battlemaster with two handgun PPCs and an LRM-20 model.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #49 on: 10 June 2019, 00:17:19 »
Really; I'm cool with it. Not every idea works out.

That's true.


Quote
 
Although, with my BattleMaster; more big energy guns is the route I went with it as a modern-tech machine, rather than something like the Gauss Rifle, so it works out okay anyways.

Although; if I ever had a few spare; I'd like to model a Red Corsair Battlemaster with two handgun PPCs and an LRM-20 model.   

That's cool.

That'd be cool to see.  :)

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #50 on: 12 June 2019, 00:57:14 »
Now, here is an idea;

What is AMS worked against artillery?

Lets say that a unit is going to be affected by an artillery strike as-per the standard rules for a missile attack.

Roll 1d6

IS/SL AMS effectively engages on a 5-6

Clan AMS and all LAMS effectively engage on a 4-6

Roll another 1d6

Arrow-IV (or V) are destroyed on a 4-6, same as a NARC beacon.

Artillery shells are pre-detonated on a 6, only.

Cruise Missiles are destroyed on a 6 and re-roll to-hit on a 4-5.

I am not sure yet how to model the effect for something like the Arrow-3 or my MRLs...

What do people think?
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #51 on: 12 June 2019, 05:50:04 »
Can't AMS be used against missile artillery already?

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #52 on: 12 June 2019, 07:24:08 »
Now, here is an idea;

What is AMS worked against artillery?
.
.
What do people think?

well as i understand it the AMS is only for close in defense. It should not work well-facing Arrows, already. Ok if the boys use impact fuze - but usually ICM will "deploy" before your AMS even starts to work.

Maybe you need a kind of heavy AMS, laser based that can shoot incoming shells and missiles as soon as they "clear" the horizon

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #53 on: 12 June 2019, 15:50:34 »
well as i understand it the AMS is only for close in defense. It should not work well-facing Arrows, already. Ok if the boys use impact fuze - but usually ICM will "deploy" before your AMS even starts to work.

Maybe you need a kind of heavy AMS, laser based that can shoot incoming shells and missiles as soon as they "clear" the horizon

Well the only thing we really know for range with AMS is that it has range 1 for use against infantry and I think there was once or still is a rule for covering adjacent units with your own AMS. We don't know when the system actually starts to engage incoming missiles.

That it affects an MRM40 to the same proportion as an SRM2 implies it may start to work quite far out.

We know AMS was based on MGs, at first, but just because an MG cannot do damage beyond it's extreme range to a battlefield target, does not mean that it couldn't damage missiles from much further away.

Also; this is kinda why I made the odds for successful interception so low.

I need to read more into the rules of the RISC Advanced Point Defence System too...
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #54 on: 15 June 2019, 10:20:28 »
From what I can find out so far AMS can work against Capital/Artillery Missiles  (I'm presuming for Cruise Missiles) if its mounted in bays. That seems to rule out ground units though. Personally, I think any unit that has 2 or more AMS should be able to effect Capital/Artillery Missiles. Or maybe they do and I haven't found the right rule yet?

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #55 on: 16 June 2019, 22:27:07 »
Leathern Guns: The SLDFiE's Light Weapons

Sustained-Fire Laser

The sustained-fire laser was developed specifically for SOG’s Air Cavalry program, but first saw use in ground vehicles and as an infantry support weapon with the Striker Cadre. The goal was to provide a weapon which would be ideal for arming combat VTOLs expected to most often encounter light forces particularly infantry. Therefor hitting power against armoured targets was not critical, but range and weight of fire were.

SOG’s technical branch started with two prototypes; one, based on a small-laser test bed, and another which was a new-build from the ground-up. Both sought to boost range and increase rate of fire and succeeded, though they did it very differently. The first took a Diverse Optics small laser, added a new refinement of extended-range focussing lenses sacrificing burn-through for reach and fed it through a hopped-up infantry-scale pulse initiator and fit the whole thing in a cooling jacket, all for a negligible increase in weight, the last mainly gained through a sacrifice of the heavier cooling fins and insulators for lighter, faster-cooling, but less capable models, easily capable of taking the lower-per-shot heat output.

The other team took the Small Laser’s basic laser core, chopped off the comparatively heavy-duty focusing tube and replaced it with a rotating battery of lighter, air-cooled barrels, either three (in the original model) or six (in some later sub-types), depending on the exact model, with different gauges of the new-rate focusing lenses.

Both prototypes, essentially using infantry-scale technology produced a similar result, but the rotary-barreled model(s) were found superior for most aircraft roles. By this stage the ground forces and the Striker infantry think tank had taken an interest and they preferred the single-barreled version for AFVs and infantry support.

Eventually all three went into production and continue to see export and service use. The technology is easy to produce compared to modern spheroid weapons, but maintenance remains beyond the grasp of most low-tech clients; thus the existence of export models of many ICOM products, such as the Dusty and Slick VTOLs.

While the name, itself is suggestive; this weapon does not function at all like a cutting beam, but rather like an accelerated-action pulse-laser. The SF Laser works by firing a stream of very rapid laser pulses; these have the effect of burning a tunnel in atmosphere and through dust particles in space and other environments. This keeps the laser beam from ameliorating fully until a range of about 1000m (in a Terran-standard Atmosphere) is reached. Beyond this point, even Clan Tech cannot overcome the diminishing rate of returns. Barrel burn-out is a common maintenance concern, with either the heavy single-barrel or the rotary matrices. Contrary again to appearances; the rotary barrel models are cycling throughout their rotation. The rotary mechanism is part of an air-induction process to keep the focusing chambers and lenses cool.

Due to the high-rate of fire of the SF Laser, crews find it much easier to walk fire onto a target; even moreso than a pulse laser.


Heat: 3
Damage: 1 +3d6 vs infantry
Range: 4/7/10
Weight: 0.5 Tons
Critical Spaces: 1
Cost:14,000 (in C-Bils Equivalent)
Availability: XXE
Notes: -3 to-hit.

Light Support AutoCannon

The Light Support AutoCannon was developed beginning in 3069 upon receipt of examples of Davion Light AutoCannon Technology. SLDF Soldiers, Techs and Engineers saw some utility to the Davion LAC/2 and '5 in certain niche roles, however the weapons suffered from an enforced requirement for backwards compatibility of ammunition. This was a wise move in some ways; in that it brought easier access to different kinds of AutoCannon ammunition then in service with FedSuns warriors, but it meant that the weapons themselves couldn't be as light as they might otherwise be and that much of the potential in the ammunition itself was wasted. As-presented, LACs only worked when built-around heavy-gauge AutoCannon ammunition that did its damage with it's explosive warhead. This mandated further design compromises.

At the time; the New Model Army's ground forces were literally dying for *something like* the Light AutoCannon and so were the AirCavalry. But while the Mech and Armoured Vehicle Branches were satisfied with what they would soon have on hand; the LAC/2 and '5 would not be suitable for the requirements of the Infantry Branch.

The Light Support AutoCannon was a Light-weight AutoCannon built from the ground up. Rather than stand on the insistent use of existent stocks of ammunition, SLDF Techs and Engineers took one of the standard AC/2 rounds; the 30x173mm original Star League-Standard and shortened the case to a 135mm Belted Case, changed the powder and installed a shorter, lighter projectile. This reduced the bulk and weight of the new round by half, while ensuring there was little wasted energy in the ammunition itself. This had the added advantage of making close-infantry cooperation easier for unprotected troops operating with units equipped with LSACs; something export customers in the Calderon Protectorate, Andurian Pact and various 3rd League Member-States would come to appreciate.

From here; the new guns were designed from the ground-up around the ammunition they would fire. This whole cloth approach ensured that the prototypes were not ready until mid-3070, but also that there were none of the issues NAIS ran into tickling the dragon's tail and seeing how much metal they could take out of the LACs before their ammunition blew them up.

The prototypes came in three configurations; a 3-barrled rotary gun; a conventional single-barreled weapon and a rotary-chambered, electrically-driven chaingun. All boasted effective ranges in excess of 1200 meters and a rate of fire more than twice that of an AC/2.

The LSAC first saw service from 3073-onward onboard mid-production models of the SLDF's Rhino/Green Dragon APCs and were quickly fitted on improvised side-mounts on Dusty Gunships. It has remained a popular weapon with the Infantry Branch and a lucrative export item in some circles, but wider acceptance has not been forthcoming with the SLDF as a whole. However, as the main armament of the SLDFiE's primary tracked-APC, this still means that LSACs are effectively ubiquitous weapons in every SLDFiE Brigade.

The high technological refinement of the LSAC and proprietary ammunition are a brake on export sales, but once in-hand; they are easy to operate and maintain in any configuration.

Heat: 1
Damage: 4
Range: 4/7/13
Ammunition: 100 Shots/ton
Weight: 3 Tons
Critical Spaces: 1
Cost: 135,000/1150 reload (In C-Bills, Equivalent)
Availability: XXE

ICOM Heavy Flamer

ICOM; or "Integrated Comprehensive Systems" is the name of the production, engineering and development concern first founded by SOG in the late 3050s as a means to field particular items of equipment necessary to their operations. Overtime it grew into the umbrella corporation under which the Military-Industrial Complex of the New Model Army and later SLDFiE would flourish.

At the time it was founded, first as a simple manufacturer of military load-bearing equipment and heat-sink gaskets on Menke, however; Commander McKenna took pains to mask any direct connections between ICOM and SOG. This later proved prescient, as during the Jihad; the industrial arm of those Mercenaries who had them were targeted ruthlessly by the Word of Blake. During this time, ICOM's residual Inner Sphere-Based production concerns, dispersed and decidedly "Cottage" as they were, suffered no more than incidental damage from the fighting.

The in-house version of the Heavy Flammer was a very early weapons project and the first to see great success in the form of a production weapon.

As a unit designed and built and engaged in the fighting of various kinds of dirty, little wars from its inception, SOG was intimately familiar with the strengths (sheer terror, high effectiveness) and weaknesses (short range) of flamer weapons. But it was desired to produce and field an enhanced weapon for use in counter-insurgencies, urban warfare, sapping operations and the capture of enemy mechs; due to overheating, which was a constant interest for a unit always light on 'Mechs. Building an enhanced version of the fusion flamer was ruled out as both beyond the financial and technical capabilities of the firm and unlikely to grant the assets sought in a final product.

The original proof of concept is the work of SOG Chief Tech Albone (A former Solaris-7 master tech who knew the value of flash in the Arena), which ICOM built on and refines for several years. ICOM hired chemists and engineers familiar with pump equipment used in construction and agriculture. They produced a binary chemical agent to act as the fuel source, which was electrically ignited. This was mated to an enhanced, independent series of pressure tanks and compressors based on Albone’s design, rather than piggyback the mounting-unit's onboard air pressure system. The prototype was controlled and aimed with the aid of industrial triple-strength Myomer valves and nozzles. Even the famously crotchety half-man was forced to admit the “White Coats” had managed to improve on his work, even if only in detail.

The result was a weapon of much greater range and power than anything else then on hand. Later enhancements to flamer-weapons are only comparable to ICOM's earlier effort. ICOM's Heavy Flamer is easier to operate and maintain than even some models of flamer which have been around since the days of the Terran Hegemony. The design features a small number of large, robust parts and version-control has remained tight since the last recall for field-updating to Myomer gaskets in 3082. One major drawback when compared with similar systems; especially the Jade Falcon's own Heavy Flamer, now also used by the Lyran Commonwealth and others is the greater weight and bulk of the system and its voracious appetite for fuel.

Operationally; the fuel the ICOM Heavy Flamer uses is safer and more stable than that commonly used by other, similar systems. However; the flame-projectors themselves are vulnerable to battle damage and experience and testing has revealed a worrying unity in the likelihood of a mass explosion if the compressors or tanks that power the system and give it it's reach are damaged in any way.

The design was a closely-held secret in SOG until becoming part of the SLDF as cadre for the New Model Army. As such, technical details were basically unknown outside those circles directly related to parties actually using the weapons, until mid-way through the Jihad when The Word of Blake managed to capture a lance of SLDF-FireStarters intact during a boarding action. These were studied at length for the better part of a year, before being re-captured by Coalition forces in an unnamed system. Early intelligence on this SLDF capability may have contributed to the souring of Delvin Stone's opinion on the SLDF forces he was forced to ally himself with.

Today; the SLDFiE uses the ICOM Heavy Flamer on various combat and support vehicles, but the weapon is truly showcased in the controversial "Special Attack" Formations where it is prominently mounted on 'Mechs such as the FireStarter and FireStarter-II. Some export sales have taken place, but these have been few, small and rarely repeated. One exception is the Rim Collection, which appears to find the weapons engaging as part of their own local FireStarter Upgrade Program.

Heat: 5
Damage: 3+12 heat, +6d6 vs infantry
Range: 0/3/5/8
Ammunition: 8 shots/Ton
Weight: 2
Critical Slots: 2
Cost: 30,000/3,400 reload (In C-Bills, equivalent)
Availability: XXF (3062)
Notes: -1 to-hit. Explodes when hit for 4 Damage

Atomatic Grenade Launcher

The Automatic Grenade Launcher was developed through ICOM in the early 3060s, initially as a weapon for SOG's armoured vehicles. But development was troublesome and drawn-out until early 3065 when there was difficulty finding a willing user through the new Model Army Ordnance Board, even after a finished, fieldable product had cleared trials.

Occurring as it did in the midst of the upheavals of SOG's fighting in the FedCom Civil War and acceptance of the 2nd Star League's offer to form the cadre of the New Model Army, the program was nearly cancelled several times and survived on a shoestring budget through FYs 3062 and 3064.

Fortune smiled, as it often has in such stories in the form of the AirCavalry Command; part of the then-nascent Infantry branch. the AirCav were looking for a weapon system to fill a particular role of wide-area suppression and "drop-down" indirect-fire capability. The Automatic Grenade Launcher fit that bill to a *T*.

Initially developed with an eye to giving Armoured units a multi-shot weapon mimicking the varied capabilities of the Vehicular Grenade Launcher; the AGL evolved into a weapon dedicated to the suppression of infantry and light vehicles in close-terrain.

The SLDFiE's Automatic Grenade Launchers are recoil, blow-back or electrically-driven weapons, depending on version; firing bursts of low-velocity explosive projectiles which explode on contact, proximity or air-burst just above the ground. They commonly use a High-Explosive, Dual-Purpose warhead, which is equally adept at damaging infantry or armoured targets. Originally; a vast array of ammunition was developed, but due to the weight and bulk of the rounds and the platforms that tend to mount these weapons, little variation is found today and the HEDP and training chalk grenades are basically the standard.

The Automatic Grenade Launcher has seen some limited export success, but often finds itself employed as part of an emplacement. Notably; the DCMS and Capellan Confederation have bought a number of the weapons to retrofit into their surviving mega-fortifications.

Heat: 4
Damage: 1/hit R0 +1d6 vs infantry
Range: 3/5/8
Ammunition: 36 Volleys/Ton
Weight: 1.5 Tons
Critical Spaces: 2
Cost: 25,000/2,500 reload
Availability: XXE (3065)
Notes: 4 shots per volley as UAC, jams on a 2, with un-jam

ICOM Machineguns

The humble machinegun was the first item of ClanTech ICOM tried to reverse-engineer to the supply the New Model Army. This proved easier said than done. The Clan's consider the Machinegun a disposable weapons system to be used until it breaks and then discarded, scrapped and replaced. Engineered to ragged edges of safety; a broken ClanTech Machinegun will offer few usable spare parts to an armourer's workbench. In practice; they aren't built to be parted-out and such efforts are almost never worth the time. But it is these compromises, which allowed the Clans to cram the same amount of firepower into a package half the weight of a Star League-Era gun of the same performance, such as the Kicker.

ICOM had to try to manage the same performance in a package that met SLDF-NMA Guidelines for serviceability and service life. This proved immensely challenging and a successful prototype was not available until late 3073.

This experience, however, was invaluable to SLDFiE Engineers and technicians working on the project and the guns, once they became available, as it gave them ground-level familiarity with how the Clan's use advanced materials and manufacturing techniques to product their equipment. Many other, later reverse-engineering projects benefitted from these dividends to the present day.

The eventual end-product met the goals of the program and all New Model Army specifications, but cost slightly more than directly equivalent Clan equipment.

By this time, examples of the Clan Light and Heavy Machineguns had become available and these too were closely examined.

it was found that the "Light" machinegun---actually a longer-ranged weapon of the same scale, firing a smaller projectile---could easily be replicated once stocks of ammunition could be produced locally. This proved of no consequence for the old Omni-Munitions plant; now grown into a sprawling above-and-below-ground complex.

But the Heavy Machinegun was rejected as generally unsuitable for service. Built to the same-standards as the common Clan Machineguns; it was a stupefying less-efficient weapon. It had a shorter range and was twice as heavy, consumed twice the weight of ammunition and only managed to put 50% more of it on the target.

By this time, however; ICOM Engineers were highly experienced with all aspects of ClanTech and mating it to Spheroid standards of workmanship and production schedules. They honestly thought they could do better. R&D Command was sceptical and offered a bare "Life Support" budget for the project and set daunting technical specifications for what they would consider acceptable. While this was going on; SLDFiE Forces and Ordnance Board were still making due, mainly with a hodgepodge of Inner Sphere and Clan-Spec machineguns of all models; both as salvage and factory-production items.

If the SLDFiE was to utilize a "Heavy Machinegun" with the added expense of scarce ClanTech resources allocated to it, then it needed to be no more than twice the weight of a standard Clan MG or LMG, use the same ammunition and have the same range all at the same level of efficiency down-range. The Ordnance Board shook hands and figured that for a pittance, they had heard the last of the long-suffering Clan Machinegun projects and at the end of the Fiscal Year; with nothing to show for it, they could safely cancel the project. Job Done.

Eleven months later, the HMG team booked range time to test-fire their prototype. What they had was basically the earlier ICOM ClanTech MG model with a longer, heavier-gauge receiver; enhanced recoil mechanism and a longer, heavier barrel, mounted to a dual-feeding, electrically-driven rotary chamber. It was, in short; a beast of a gun. Over-engineers and built for rapid, sustained fire from a self-propelled mounting.

The test-fire failed after one round when the number-1 firing pin snapped off on firing.

But the next week it worked like a charm. Proving Ground Trials with refined prototypes would later establish a range 33% greater than demanded by The Board, with only a slight drop in accuracy. At normal ranges, if anything; the ICOM HMG was too-accurate and the beaten-zone (Crucial for anti-infantry work) was 25% smaller than expected and the designers were unable to correct this, without sacrificing 100 meters of effective anti-hard-target range. A compromise that The Ordnance Board could live with, although a near-fatal case of bureaucratic inertia saw general availability delayed for some time. SLDF CID made opted to make no arrests in the matter.

Today, ICOM Machineguns are only now beginning to supplant the massive and mixed inventory of less-advanced weapons of the same class fielded by the 3rd League. In common with the rest of the SLDFiE's refit program; demand has far out-stripped supply. What has changed now is that when newly-built equipment comes from the factory, or an older machine returns from a refit; it has much more locally-produced components than before. As of 3091, ICOM has completely supplanted the factory-side supply of machineguns to so-called "Modernized" units. However, they cannot quite keep up with the refit schedule and so some MGs imported through the Diamond sharks and many, many old-tech examples are still common throughout the ranks of the SLDFiE.

Exports of ICOM MGs have been minimal due to domestic demand. But as directed by the 3rd League's Diplomatic Corps and SLDFiE Plenipotentiaries (to the extent to which those two categories differ), ICOM has made an effort to make a small quantity available to Member State customers within the 3rd League itself. This is seen as an important example of not-just inter-league cooperation, but the greater benefits that the Clan and "Domestic" Member States can gain from working together.

In-service; the ICOM MG family is well-liked by SLDFiE Techs; The most common model is basically an updated Sperry-Browning, with a few quirks; so conversion between types is easy. Clan Member State Techs have been less enthusiastic, as a repairable Machinegun equals more work for them and most of their Warriors care litte for such measly weapons. Technical limitations preclude the compromises needed to mount the HMG on Battle Armour, so the Elementals will be no help in this matter.

Their slightly greater cost makes these weapons less desirable to the Diamond Sharks as a trade commodity; so, they are exclusively carried by domestic shipping lines.

LMG

Heat: 0
Damage: 1 +1d6 Vs Infantry
Range: 2/4/6
Ammunition: 200 Shots/Ton
Weight: 0.25 Ton
Critical Spaces: 1
Cost: 8,500/1000 Reload
Availability: XXE (3075)

MG

Heat: 0
Damage: 2 +2d6 Vs Infantry
Range: 1/2/3
Ammunition: 200 Shots/Ton
Weight: 0.25 Ton
Critical Spaces: 1
Cost: 8,000/1000 Reload
Availability: XXE (3073)

HMG

Heat: 0
Damage: 4 +3d6 Vs Infantry
Range: 1/2/4
Ammunition: 100 Shots/Ton
Weight: 0.5 Ton
Critical Spaces: 1
Cost: 9,000/1000 Reload
Availability: XXE (3078)
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #56 on: 28 June 2019, 06:15:35 »
I've got a question, what exactly is with the D[whatever] with the bombs.

beachhead1985

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Re: The Bench Rest. New and Different Equipment from Der Tag
« Reply #57 on: 28 June 2019, 10:21:47 »
I've got a question, what exactly is with the D[whatever] with the bombs.

Certainly.

I think I had it on the last thread, before the previous forum reboot. But that's a house rule I have; certain circumstances and random chance allow an AOF weapon to make a direct hit on a target. For most battlefield units (like mechs), this is presented as a 6 on a 1d6 roll.

In other circumstances; it may be automatic (Scatter roll on a large building or support vehicle) or much more likely; TAG-guided weapon like a laser-guided bomb, Copperhead Artillery Round or Homing Arrow-IV missile; 4-6 on a 1d6 roll.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
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We're fine until charge-zero. Infatry Mortars in Der Tag
« Reply #58 on: 15 July 2019, 00:21:22 »
I never liked how BT modeled mortars. Ever since I picked up TRO: 3026, it's seemed like an odd blind spot; sticking out like a sore thumb. Most of the infantry weapons which are statted specifically are nerfed, badly. But the Mortars are another order of magnitude for short range and low-damage. With Der Tag, my goal is often to produce rules to backup the stories I want to write. I have trouble picturing warfare without mortars; or with mortars rendered shockingly impotent; so I sought to set that right.

However; the conistency and attention to detail of 3026 is one of it's high points and I didn't want to discard everything; so I kept some of the stats of the Light and Heavy Mortar: weight; yes, but this seemed to be derived from real-world sources. Some of my books cite the M29 81mm Mortar as weighing in at 50-52kg and others show 120mm Mortars in the 220kg-range. These books are contemporaneous with the years before TRO:3026 came out. More important was a baseline for cost.

I used real-world weapons as a baseline, but cut the crews down to a minimum standard of functionality, stuck pretty close to weight and adjusted range to make more of a difference between different types of weapons.

General Rules for Mortars:

Crew: Mortars work like Artillery Weapons and Field Guns in regards to crew. The listed number is a bare functional minimum. If you want to make a mortar unit casualty-tolerant, then you need to make the crews bigger.

Range: Most Mortars can be targeted via "Direct Lay" or fired indirectly, like other artillery. When fired indirectly; they function as normal artillery, but add +1 turn to flight time to account for the parabolic arc of mortar bomb. When fired directly on either the Infantry or common scale; mortars are treated as other LOS weapons, but may strike targets indirectly through the LRM indirect fire rules, or work with a spotter.

Damage: Mortars deal three kinds of Damage; Direct (For when the bomb hits a target directly), Splash (Normal Artillery Damage) and bonus (Extra Damage scored against select units). This was reasonable way of modelling the noted additional efficency of down-range effect of mortar bombs without making the Heavy Mortar as powerful as a Thumper.

Certain Mortars have special rules detailed in their notes.

Weapon: Commando Mortar
Damage: 1 (Direct)
              1d6 vs infantry and buildings R0
Range:
         Direct Lay: Infantry Base Range 3
         Indirect: 1 Map (1.6km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 1kg/Round
Weight:10kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 400
Availability:BBB
Crew: 1

The Commando Mortar is a light-weight, minimalist weapon so-named for its common association with special forces units. The weapon is exceptionally simplistic; it is a tube, connected to a selectable drop or lever-fire mechanism and a small baseplate. It is aimed by a high-visibility stripe painted or stuck on the tube. These are very easy to make and really only reduced in commonality because most users benefit more for a full-featured light mortar.

Light Mortars and Commando Mortars can often share the same ammunition, except those smaller than 52mm in bore. But it is generally dangerous and inaccurate to fire full-charge Light Mortar Bombs from Commando Mortars.

The ancient FedSuns-made T91 is directly convertible *into* a light mortar with the use of a simple bipod and baseplate kit. The 14kg weight of the kit makes for zero weight savings, but causes the unit to cost the equivalent of 200 c-bills more.

Commando Mortars range in Calibre from 37 to 60mm


Weapon: Light Mortar
Damage: 2 (Direct)
              1+1d6 vs Infantry and Buildings R0   
Range:
         Direct Lay: Infantry Base Range 5
         Indirect: 2 Maps (3.2km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 1.3kg/round
Weight: 24kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 1,000
Availability: AAA
Crew: 2

Light Mortars are common support weapons for infantry platoons and companies and especially popular with guerillas and urban terrorists.

These are more conventional weapons with bipods (or tripods), baseplates and superior sighting arrangements to Commando Mortars. Light Mortars are generally more-substantial weapons, with superior performance, despite sometimes. sharing parts and ammunition with Commando Mortars.

Light Mortars range in Calibre from 52 to 76.2mm


Weapon: Medium Mortar
Damage: 5 (Direct)
              2/1+1d6 vs Infantry, Vehicles and Buildings R1
Range:
         Direct Lay: 2/7/14/21
         Indirect: 4 Maps (6.4km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 4.5kg/round
Weight: 50kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 1,400
Availability: AAA
Crew: 3

Medium Mortars are more serious support weapons; often used by Infantry Companies and distinct fire-support and even light-artillery units. They are lighter than other mortars, while still offering a high degree of punch and portability.

It is at this scale that the efficiency of Mortar Bombs over artillery shells becomes noticeable; the thin walls of the body making more room for explosive filler so that the down-range effect is much more impressive than might otherwise be expected.

Medium Mortars are found in calibres ranging from 76.2mm to 90mm, but most are within 1 or 2 millimeters of 8cm; this is the smallest kind of mortar found with anti-double-loading devices. The Medium Mortar is the largest which may be operated by Jump Infantry units.


Weapon: Heavy Mortar
Damage: 10 (Direct)
              5/3+2d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R1
Range:
         Direct Lay: 4/7/14/21
         Indirect: 5 Maps (8km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 14kg/Round
Weight: 220kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 5,000
Availability: AAA
Crew: 3

The Heavy Mortar offers what many users feel is the ideal balance of punch, reach and weight in a package as easily manned (if not moved and supplied) as a Medium Mortar. There are many Mercenary Units which field *only* Heavy Mortars and few large infantry formations which lack them.

Heavy Mortars vary little from their smaller cousins, except in scale. They are basic tubes (Some with anti-double-loading devices), fitted with mono/bi/tripods and baseplates, but have more elaborate and capable sights than are common on smaller examples of the same kind of weapons. Some Heavy Mortars are provided with separate carriages to make them easier to move about in one piece or operate them with Mechanized or Motorized units. Heavy mortars may be used by any kind of Motor or Mechanized unit; although Hover units must carry, rather than tow them.

Almost all Heavy Mortars use a 12cm bomb. 105 and 107mm Mortars in the Medium-Heavy range were once well-known, but they tended to combine the bulk of a Heavy Mortar with the range of a Medium for little advantage. Modern examples use a modified design of Mortar Bomb to provide comparable performance, but tend to wear badly in service.


Weapon: Rifled Mortar
Damage: 10 (Direct)
              4/2+2d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R1
Range:
         Direct Lay: 5/8/16/24
         Indirect: 9 Maps (14.4km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 16kg/Round
Weight: 580kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 8,000
Availability: BBB
Crew: 3

Rifled Mortars attempt to find a balance between the effective range and accuracy of conventional tube-artillery and the punch and casualty-producing efficiency of mortars. These are invariably heavier, more complex and expensive weapons with ammunition made heavier as well in order to provide comparable performance, alongside the added range. Overall; many consider Rifled Mortars a successful compromise, unusual in Military equipment.

Rifled Mortars are no more difficult to operate than smaller types, but as they are so much heavier are normally wheeled in design and/or featuring ingenious folding carriage and man-handling arrangements. Rifled Mortars are less common and popular than Heavy Mortars, due to their size and cost, but thanks to their longer-range they have firm adherents where they are found in use. While some users; such as the ComGuards fielded them selectively with certain formations in place of other fire-support assets such as bulkier tube-artillery; most will either use Rifled Mortars as their sole example of a larger mortar or embrace a wider-range of weapons. Few users embrace both Rifled Mortars and larger smooth-bore types as well.

Rifled Mortars are normally 12cm weapons; in common with Heavy Mortars, but some with bores as small as 107mm and as large as 15cm are known as well. Rifled Mortars take well to Mechanization or Motorization due to often having a wheeled carriage available. However; this is usually discarded and the Mortars fired from the carriers, especially if operating with a Motor-Hover capability.


Weapon: Super-Heavy Mortar
Damage: 15 (Direct)
              7/4/1+2d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R2
Range:
         Direct Lay: No Direct Lay
         Indirect: 6 Maps (9.6km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 40kg/Round
Weight: 1.3 Tons
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 15,000
Availability: CCC
Crew: 4

Can fire once every two turns, with a full crew. Normal rate with 8 or more.

Super-Heavy Mortars are less popular when compared with the near-universality of Medium and Heavy Mortars. They are much larger and more expensive than either Heavy or Rifled Mortars and offer little in the way of a range-advantage over a typical Heavy-model. They require larger crews and their ammunition is much heavier. The larger Bombs and the fact that many Super-heavy Mortars are breach-loading makes these weapons slower-firing than smaller types as well. The sole advantage to Super-Heavy mortars comes in their much heavier explosive payload and thus; punch when compared with smaller systems. However; users must balance this advantage with decreased mobility and range compared to other, conventional artillery units.

Operationally; Super-Heavy Mortar units *must be* mechanized or motorized in order to have tactical mobility with their weapons. Otherwise; they are either static or reliant on more substantial transport. In construction; Super-Heavy Mortars vary widely; most are breach-loaded and have integral or separate carriages for movement. But beyond that they may have mono- or bipods or be pedestal-mounted in design.

Most known extant Super-Heavy Mortars are either 155mm or 160mm weapons.


Weapon: Ultra-Heavy Mortar
Damage: 40 (Direct)
              30/15/5+3d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R2
Range:
         Direct Lay: No Direct Lay
         Indirect: 8 Maps (12.8km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 100kg/Round
Weight: 3.6 Tons
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 24,000
Availability: DDD
Crew: 6

Can fire once every three turns, with a full crew. Once every two turns with 12 or more.

The Ultra-Heavy Mortar is the least-common of all the mortar types known. They are commonly produced only in the Taurian Concordant and occasionally in the Capellan Confederation and the worlds once known as the Free World’s League. These are very large weapons most commonly used for siege work and close-range defence in built-up areas. Occasionally in history they have been employed to thicken the barrages of larger artillery formations supporting military operations at the level of the Corps or Division-level.

Ultra-Heavy Mortars are very large as mortars go; they must be motorized (Wheeled or Tracked) or carried as cargo if they are to be mobile. They require 6 crew to operate with minimum effectiveness and even at this, they can normally only fire slowly. They incorporate their own carriage and operate from a turntable on a pedestal or with the aide of a monopod.

The standard Ultra-Heavy Mortar Bomb is a 24cm diameter design of conventional layout.


Weapon: Lightfoot Mobile Mortar
Damage: 2 (Direct)
              1+1d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R0
Range:
         Direct Lay: Infantry Base Range 5
         Indirect: 2 Maps (3.2km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 1.3kg/Round
Weight: 12.5kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 1,800
Availability:  DFE
Crew: 2

The Lightfoot Mobile Mortar is an advanced weapon of Capellan design. It combines ruthless simplicity with selective application of advanced materials sciences and clear-headed concessions to more extravagant features; such as the clip-on indirect-fire sight. The result is a weapon almost half the weight of the common Light Mortar, but matching closely it’s performance.

The original Lightfoot came out in secret just before the 1st Succession War and was in widespread use among House Liao units and their allies and catspaws, until wear and tear alongside the tech collapse of the Succession Wars severely reduced their numbers. With the return of more advanced technology in the 3040s, Lightfoots began to be produced slowly, once more and by the 3060s were the standard Light Mortar once again in all but the meanest-equipped Capellan forces.

Some Lightfoot Mobile Mortars found their way into service in the Free Worlds at various points in history and they were standard equipment for the SLDFiE during the Jihad as well.


Weapon: Avalanche Mountain Mortar
Damage: 8 (Direct)
              4/2+2d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R1
Range:
         Direct Lay: 2/7/14/26
         Indirect: 8 Maps (12.8km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition:11kg/Round
Weight: 170kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 5,200
Availability: XXE
Crew: 4

The Avalanche is a light-weight Rifled Mortar for use in Mountain and Jungle terrain and by light infantry units. It uses an ingenious wheeled carriage and advanced materials to yield a lightweight highly-mobile weapon. The Avalanche uses rectangular baseplate and supports the barrel with a tripod.

Down-range; the Avalanche represents a middle ground between a Medium Mortar and a Rifled Model and requires a larger crew than both to operate effectively. On the up-side; it is easier and faster to bring into action than any Heavy or Rifled Mortar known to man. In addition; the smaller 107mm base-expanding Ammunition is lighter and thus easier on the backs of human and animal porters, alike.

The Avalanche was developed in the Principality of Regulus with assistance from 3rd League Engineers. Besides being in service with the SLDFiE; the Avalanche is common throughout the Andurian Pact and known in the Magistracy of Canopus and Capellan Confederation. The Avalanche is scheduled to come into service with Lyran Mountain Infantry through a licensing deal with Coventry Metals, gradually over the next four years.


Weapon: Thunderer Heavy Mortar
Damage: 10 (Direct)
              6/3+2d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R1
Range:
         Direct Lay: 3/8/16/24
         Indirect: 9 maps (14.4km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 18kg/Round
Weight: 396kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 11,000
Availability:  XXE
Crew: 3

The Thunderer is an improved Rifled Mortar created with lessons learned from hard-won combat experience dating from before the FedCom Civil War and technical data derived from the Lightfoot. Developed by the 3rd League; they have now replaced all standard Heavy Mortars in SLDFiE service and have enjoyed some export success within the 3rd League and it’s few allies.

The Thunderer uses a larger 133mm Mortar Bomb with an expanding band to engage the rifling on firing. In appearance; the Thunderer is similar to many other Rifled Mortar Designs; incorporating a wheeled carriage which forms part of the bipod. The baseplate forms a turntable and this; together with the wheels, makes gross traverse adjustments beyond 90* fast, easy and accurate; provided the wheels are locked back into position after traverse.

Thunderers are sometimes mounted on Infantry Support Vehicles in order to make them more mobile. In these cases; the wheels are removed and the legs fitted into a track in the mortar bay. Crew opinions are divided on which arrangement is faster to bring onto a new bearing and azimuth. Left to their own devices; the Thunder is adequately mobile with only the muscle power of the crew, as such things go. However, it is not as easy to maneuver, especially in close country as the Avalanche is.


Weapon: Gungnir Special Purpose Mortar
Damage: 12 (Direct)
              6/3/1+2d6 vs Infantry Buildings and Vehicles R2
Range:
         Direct Lay: 4/8/17/22
         Indirect:7 Maps (11.2km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 38kg/Round
Weight: 355kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 20,000
Availability: XXF
Crew: 5

The Gungnir is a special-purpose weapon developed by the SLDFiE for the exclusive use of their Air-Naval-Gunfire-Liaison-Companies. It is larger than a normal Heavy Mortar, but lighter than the Thunderer. It is a smooth-bore weapon of 155mm calibre with a series of horizontal bands around the barrel. It is of conventional layout with a bipod and large, round baseplate and has a separate wheeled carriage, which is easily man-handled by the 5-man crew.

The purpose of the larger-than-normal minimum crew, large bore and distinct bands on the barrel are to facilitate the Gungnir’s main purpose of deploying special munitions into the battle area to facilitate ANGLICO operations at a distance, when possible. Besides the conventional range of HEGP (stated here), Smoke and Incendiary; the Gungnir is supplied with special self-guiding INARC projectiles, a slowly-descending Recon-camera, a remotely-piloted drone and an artillery-delivered transponder which mimics a TAG signal. The barrel-bands are interface nodes to track and imprint the special munitions; allowing them to be controlled and tracked at long-range.

Gungnir Mortars may be motorized with various carriers in service, but are designed specifically to be manageable for the crews to manpack; even indoors, where they are often setup in reinforced roof positions. Only the lightweight design of the barrel and baseplate makes this possible.


Weapon: Raiden Super-Heavy Mortar
Damage: 15 (Direct)
              7/4/1+2d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles R2
Range:
         Direct Lay: 6/8/17/25
         Indirect: 12 Maps (19.2km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 50kg/round
Weight: 1200kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 23,000
Availability: XXE
Crew: 5

The Raiden is a Rifled Mortar, scaled-up to the Super-Heavy level. Raiden was developed by the SLDFiE in order to provide a long-range, heavy bombardment capability to supplement the Thunderer at higher levels in the TO&E. Raiden Super-Heavy Mortars have not been successful as export items; they are simply too expensive for what most customers want. Outside the SLDFiE, so far those few users who have bought the Thunderer have taken it as their sole heavy support weapon of this type. Instead, a small number of Raidens have been purchased by the Calderon Protectorate and a few more batteries-worth have been bought by mercenaries.  Currently there is some interest from various 3rd League Member States and other small powers, as the Raiden compares favourably with some more expensive artillery systems, even if it is still expensive for an infantry weapon.

In order to maintain the destructive capability of a Super-Heavy Mortar, the Raiden was designed to use a 183mm, base-expanding Mortar Bomb without need of tail boom or fins, but it get’s it’s long reach from the characteristic long-barrel. The barrel is made of an advanced EndoSteel-Ferro-Composite sandwich; which is both strong and light, while also cooling quickly. This last feature, along with a refined mechanism and ergonomics permit the Raiden to maintain an accurate rate of fire equivalent to a Heavy Mortar, despite the breach-loading arrangement.

The Raiden Super-Heavy Mortar incorporates a carriage which aids traverse and fast target acquisition in action. It features prominent recoil cylinders on each side of the barrel, which is pedestal-mounted on a round baseplate, supported by stabilizers on either side of the barrel. Raiden Super-Heavy Mortars are just barely and slowly mobile for their own crews. They provide much better service if the batteries are at least mechanized through wheeled or tracked vehicles, or better; motorized with light trucks or simply transported whole, inside a larger vehicle. It is possible for Hover-Motorized units to operate the Raiden; but it must be carried by a dedicated transporter; not towed.


Weapon: Sunder Assault Mortar
Damage: 42 (Direct)
              32/16/6+4d6 vs Infantry, Buildings and Vehicles
Range:
         Direct Lay: No Direct Lay
         Indirect: 10 Maps (16km in Der Tag Scale)
Ammunition: 130kg/Round
Weight: 3500kg
Cost (In C-Bills, Equivalent): 31,000
Availability: XXF
Crew: 8

Can fire once every two turns, with a full crew

The Sunder Assault Mortar is a refined ultra-heavy design, created by the SLDFiE to fill that need in their infantry and heavy artillery units. The Sunder incorporates advanced materials and design techniques, but is little lighter than its more common cousin, which is of a vintage over a thousand years older. Instead, the savings in weight and bulk are rolled into creating a stronger, more-robust weapons system. While only slightly more powerful than the norm, in terms of sheer destructiveness; the Sunder has a much better range.  It also functions more efficiently and the barrel stays cooler; permitting a higher practical rate of fire. The cost for this is the much heavier weight of the 256mm Mortar Bombs and the larger---by necessity---minimum crew requirements.

The Sunder is more akin to an artillery piece than what we normally think of as a mortar in appearance; it incorporates a wheeled carriage; is breech-loading, with prominent top-mounted recoil cylinder and a recuperator mounted in a gun-cradle under the barrel. The Sunder has trails used for towing and turning on it’s turntable and pedestal mount.

Sunder Assault Mortars are immobile without wheeled or tracked Motorized units or larger transports.
« Last Edit: 17 July 2019, 19:08:33 by beachhead1985 »
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

 

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