Author Topic: Motor/Mech Infantry Commando unit? (new question to avoid moderator issues)  (Read 13128 times)

Black_Knyght

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I'm playing a mercenary unit in an ongoing game that has acquired an infantry "commando" unit of sorts, and need to establish it as a kind of Motorized/Mechanized Special Forces Infantry Unit. Problem is I'm not sure how to go about doing this.

The idea is that this unit would operate on a principle similar to Wolf's Dragoons' 7th Kommando unit mixed with a kind of "Rat Patrol" vehicular arrangement. Basically hit and run commandos equipped with small, fast, lightly armed vehicles to annoy the enemy and get in/out in a hurry.

Think "Delta Force" meets the "Rat Patrol"  O0

Can someone provide me with an few examples of how that would be written up as a TO&E and used in game-play? I get it if it's visual, but can't picture it as an abstract idea for some reason.


Daryk

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I'd go with "mounted" infantry, i.e., foot infantry carried by some kind of APC.  For real "Rat Patrol" feel, you should design a 5-ton jeep.  A 25 rated engine on a wheeled 5-ton chassis gets you 9/14 speed, and can carry enough armor to stop a PPC along with a squad of infantry.

Fireangel

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How big is the unit? Company? Battalion?

Black_Knyght

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The "infantry/commando" part is a little over a reinforced company is size, while the mercenary unit as a whole is a combined arms mix that's a company short of two battalions now.

Natasha Kerensky

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What era?  Succession Wars?  Clan Invasion?  Etc.?

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Fireangel

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For maximum versatility, I'd make the reinforced company (I'm assuming four platoons) with four different kinds of platoons:

The first platoon would be of foot rifle infantry, with four separately statted wheeled-type single-squad APCs as an organic part of their administrative organization.

The second platoon would be of mechanized (wheeled) infantry, armed with anti-infantry weapons, such as burst-fire MGs or flamers.

The third platoon is the scouting element; motorized infantry; they can boldly go places where the vehicles can't even imagine going.

The fourth platoon is the "special" element; combat engineers (demolition engineers are an excellent choice). Either motorized or foot, with separately-statted wheeled APCs.

Alternately, the fourth platoon could be a field gun motorized or mechanized (wheeled) platoon towing AC/2s or LAC/5s.

If possible, an escort platoon of four light wheeled combat vehicles should be included, units to provide cover fire and LRM  support.

Black_Knyght

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What era?  Succession Wars?  Clan Invasion?  Etc.?

Ooooops! I guess that might help, wouldn't it?  [face palm]

The campaign I'm involved in is currently set in a portion of the Chaos March that the Davion part of the Federated Commonwealth is busy losing control of during the not-so-civil FedCom war >:/!, in the year of our house lords 3063. O0


Black_Knyght

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For maximum versatility, I'd make the reinforced company (I'm assuming four platoons) with four different kinds of platoons:

The first platoon would be of foot rifle infantry, with four separately statted wheeled-type single-squad APCs as an organic part of their administrative organization.

The second platoon would be of mechanized (wheeled) infantry, armed with anti-infantry weapons, such as burst-fire MGs or flamers.

The third platoon is the scouting element; motorized infantry; they can boldly go places where the vehicles can't even imagine going.

The fourth platoon is the "special" element; combat engineers (demolition engineers are an excellent choice). Either motorized or foot, with separately-statted wheeled APCs.

Alternately, the fourth platoon could be a field gun motorized or mechanized (wheeled) platoon towing AC/2s or LAC/5s.

If possible, an escort platoon of four light wheeled combat vehicles should be included, units to provide cover fire and LRM  support.

After a rough estimate by the gamemaster, it seems I have about five platoons worth of troops capable of functioning as a "Rat Patrol/Commando" unit. I mentioned that I brought it up here, and he suggests if I can get write ups of a TO&E and any vehicles he'll make them an official part of the unit I'm inheriting. It's supposedly the remnants of former Steiner commandos who disagree with Katrina's action intermixed with a veteran Davion "Rat Patrol" styled raiding unit. He was expecting both to get wiped out, but I managed to figure out a way to save both units and even got them to throw in with my mercenary unit, the Black Knyghts!

Daryk

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You definitely came to the right place!  By the way, the mods were likely only trying to point you to the fan design forums.  In general, design discussions belong here or in "Non-Canon Units".

Here are stats for the jeeps I mentioned (they use fractional accounting):

Wheeled Jeep
Code: [Select]
Tonnage:                  5.00
Internal Structure:       0.50
Control:                  0.25
Engine (25 Fusion: 9/14): 0.75
Armor:                    2.50
  Front: 10
  Sides: 10/10
  Rear:  10
Cargo (Infantry):         1.00
Trailer Hitches (F/R):    0.00
Cost: 49,542 C-Bills
Image (Australian Hawkei):


And here's a command variant:

Code: [Select]
Tonnage:                  5.00
Internal Structure:       0.50
Control:                  0.25
Engine (25 Fusion: 9/14): 0.75
Armor:                    2.50
  Front: 10
  Sides: 10/10
  Rear:  10
Passengers 0.750
Advanced Comm 0.100
6 Computers 0.018
Support Laser 0.072
Holovision Monitor 0.010
Heat Monitor 0.015
Motion Monitor 0.010
Trip-Line Monitor 0.010
Holomap 0.002
Holoprojector 0.004
White Noise Gen. 0.002
Bug Scanner 0.001
2 RhF Binoculars 0.001
Pintel Mount 0.005
Trailer Hitches (F/R) 0.000
Cost: 161,323 C-Bills

I use both with my non-canon ComStar unit in 3053.

Fireangel will likely have better ideas for the infantry than me, but I'm partial to high damage rifles with long range laser rifles as secondary weapons to extend the range to 3/6/9.  If you can talk your GM into early production Federated-Barrett 42Bs, you could get to 6 points of damage per squad:

5 Federated-Barrett M42B at 1.02 each = 5.1
2 Intek Laser Rifles at 0.21 each = 0.42
Total = 5.52, rounds to 6

I generally prefer the Intek because it only uses 2 power points per shot.  That means it can use high capacity micro-power packs that only weigh 20 grams each for 10 shots, leaving room for disposable weapons or mission equipment.

Failing that, you'd want either standard auto-rifles or Imperator AX-22 Assaults.  The Imperators are half a kilogram lighter, but technically FWL weapons.  7-man squads would come out to:

5 auto-rifles or Imperator AX-22 Assaults at 0.52 each = 2.6
2 Intek Laser Rifles at 0.21 each = 0.42
Total = 3.02, rounds to 3

If you want to really push the limits and ease conversion to Battle Armor organization some day, roll with 4 trooper squads armed with some Mauser 1200 LSSs somehow acquired from the WoB:

2 Mauser 1200 LSSs at 1.04 each = 2.08
2 Intek Laser Rifles at 0.21 each = 0.42
Total = 2.50, rounds to 3

The auto-rifle version can only get to two points of damage by using one of the other range 3 laser rifles (Mark XX or Starfire).

Fireangel

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Y'all know there's a canon jeep, right?  8)

Way back in first edition Mechwarrior RPG: 5-ton wheeled combat vehicle, 15 ICE for 7/11, 1.5 tons of armor (6/loc) with either 2 MGs + 1 ton ammo, or 1 SRM-2 with one ton of ammo.


The 3026 10-ton wheeled APCs are the best of the bunch. O0

Or for heavier firepower, a 3026 Striker; swap out the LRM-10 for a pair of LRM-5s to gain the ton needed to install a 1-ton squad infantry compartment.


Y'all might also want to check out the article on the US Army Striker Company.  ^-^

Daryk

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One thing I missed earlier about the M42Bs... they also come with the "Heavy Burst" Special Feature.  That's good for an extra -1 to hit at range zero, and +1d6 damage against conventional infantry.  Since there's at least two of them per squad (as the primary weapon), they get the bonus.

truetanker

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Except that is for the MG variant.

The M42B has three modes: standard w/ underslung GL, compact w/ Sound-Flash suppressors and LMG mode w/ bi-pod mount.

It also has base range of 1, which is 3 hexes max, 1.02 damage.

In my defense, I'd go with M&G G-150 model, .32 with 2 range, ( 3.5kg with .15kg mags. 9 shots @ 3 round burst ) with Federated-Barrett M61A Laser rifles, same range .75 damage with 6kg weight, .3kg mags. 6 shot capacity.

Gives me 4 solid damage per Squad @ 2 Range. ( 3x .75 = 2.25 + 4x .32= 1.28 equals 3.53 round up @ 18.05 BV2 each Squad too.

14 points a Platoon...  }:)

TT
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Daryk

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Using Inteks as secondary weapons takes the range out to 3/6/9, so it's OK to go with the LMG mode to maintain damage.

truetanker

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Ok... I learned me something.

Huh.. going by your idea of M24Bs... combined with mine, M61A's... same config. = 6.6 or 7 points a Squad...

I likey very muchy!  8)

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Daryk

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Glad I could help!  Infantry got a new lease on usefulness from TM, and another from TacOps with Squad deployment.

truetanker

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And now add in those disposable LAWs...

Woot!

Also, just curious, what is the BV2 and damage factor for M24B w/ Inferno Grenades? I can't find them...

Evil idea for the win factor...

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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I'm not sure... the errata table only has one entry for the M42B.

truetanker

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I know.... maybe the Errata table need errata?

 :o

Oh mighty Xtol, we summon you!

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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In addition to the candles and pentagram (hexagram?), I think you need to do that in the errata forum...  :D

truetanker

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Oh, I intend to...  >:/!

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
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Hellraiser

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This would be my idea for your unit using canon vehicles.

1st Platoon = Foot-28 + Maxim-3025
2nd Platoons = Foot-28 + Maxim-3025
3rd Platoon = Motorized-28 + Karnov-UH-3025
4th Platoon = Jump-15 + Cavalry-Infantry
5th Platoon = Foot-28 + Wheeled APC  (x4)

Foot Platoons are 20 AR's & 8 Inteks
Jump Platoon is 9 AR's & 6 Inteks
Motorized Platoon is 20 AR's & 8 Heavy Support Lasers
All Platoons wear FC-3030 Armor

This would give you a solid representation of the units you saved while at the same time keeping things fairly simplified in overall tracking.
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truetanker

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I concur with the use of Karnov-VTOl... I'd even use the AC.20 variant as the Gunship support.

And Xotl has been summoned... hopefully.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Fireangel

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1st Platoon = Foot-28 + Maxim-3025
2nd Platoons = Foot-28 + Maxim-3025
3rd Platoon = Motorized-28 + Karnov-UH-3025
4th Platoon = Jump-15 + Cavalry-Infantry
5th Platoon = Foot-28 + Wheeled APC  (x4)

I dislike platoon-level transports. "eggs in one basket" syndrome and I vastly prefer squad deployment.

truetanker

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Well Platoons 1 and 2 can be fun as one deploys from transport while other transport provides firepower. But I can also see a pair of Drillson as backup. And while the Karnov is a great transport, Karnov-Gunship should be used while they are being dropped, or else you'd lose 28 perfectly good people. The Cavalry-VTOL should also have the Standard Cavalry-VTOl as support, with Infernos for the SRM-2s preferably. The APCs do come in different flavors: LRM, SRM and MG... and different motives as well: Hover, Tracked and Wheeled.

Sad we don't have a Submersible variant of these.
TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Hellraiser

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I dislike platoon-level transports. "eggs in one basket" syndrome and I vastly prefer squad deployment.
An Overlord is Eggs in 1 Basket  ;)
Maybe, on the infantry scale, a Maxim-I with 4 Platoons is Eggs in 1 Basket.
But a single Grunt platoon of ~100ish BV.   Nope, I'll just disagree there.

Squad level deployment is fine for tiny tiny tiny actions where I want to mimic spec ops maybe.
Its certainly the USArmy standard.

But, on the game board the +1 defense is just a cheese tactic, IMHO, & a way to bulk up a unit w/ a ton of Tiny MG carriers that double as initiative sinks.
That is the kind of thing that would make me want to bring back the FSM  >:D
And I HATE the FSM



Well Platoons 1 and 2 can be fun as one deploys from transport while other transport provides firepower. But I can also see a pair of Drillson as backup. And while the Karnov is a great transport, Karnov-Gunship should be used while they are being dropped, or else you'd lose 28 perfectly good people. The Cavalry-VTOL should also have the Standard Cavalry-VTOl as support, with Infernos for the SRM-2s preferably. The APCs do come in different flavors: LRM, SRM and MG... and different motives as well: Hover, Tracked and Wheeled.

I was going bare bones transports for his unit.
There is certainly room to expand on it but I was trying to keep it very minimal since I didn't see him mention recovering a ton of actual combat escorts.
Only Heavy APCs come in those flavors.  Angel is talking about the baby ones with 1-2 MG each.
Though myself I'm a fan of the Hover for shooting across water, I can see why Wheeled is what you would go for for a Desert Rat feel.   Then again,  Hovers fly across the desert too  ^-^
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

truetanker

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Only Heavy APCs come in those flavors.  Angel is talking about the baby ones with 1-2 MG each.
Though myself I'm a fan of the Hover for shooting across water, I can see why Wheeled is what you would go for for a Desert Rat feel.   Then again,  Hovers fly across the desert too  ^-^

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hover_APC
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tracked_APC
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeled_APC

I stand corrected... tho the SRM is a variant on all three.

TT
« Last Edit: 04 April 2016, 19:41:22 by truetanker »
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Hellraiser

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http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hover_APC
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tracked_APC
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeled_APC

I stand corrected... tho the SRM is a variant on all three.

TT
Doh, I've never seen those Gunship models before.
Interesting.  I too stand corrected because I was thinking of the 3 Ton bay Heavy Transports.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

truetanker

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I really forgot they gave up their infantry bays for more firepower.

TT
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Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Hellraiser

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They are like little baby Strikers.
I can see them being used for cheap militias everywhere.
I'm totally adding them into my Garrison units from now on.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

truetanker

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 }:)

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

 

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