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Author Topic: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)  (Read 8935 times)

Daryk

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AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« on: 17 April 2016, 09:40:09 »
08FEB2019 EDIT: Maelwys pointed out the XP from aging formula will properly account for the difference between Inner Sphere and Clan characters if "Clan" is first in the "Affiliation" block (T2).  Adding this to the instructions. BiggRigg42 also pointed out I should explain why it's best to insert in the middle of the Trait and Skill lists, which I'm also adding.

14JAN2019 EDIT: Helping BiggRigg42 with his character creation videos led me to discover errors in the sample character provided.  They have been corrected in v4-6 attached to the third post.  Unlike the previous update, no calculations were affected, so people who downloaded v4-5 don't need v4-6.

26DEC2017 EDIT: Please see the second post in this thread for the current version.  Version 4-5 adds the SPAs and one additional trait from the A Time of War Companion.

This is a re-post of my spreadsheet from years ago.  The first version was on the previous incarnation of the forum, and it's been revised extensively since then (now v4.4).

Special thanks to Damourc for the latest round of testing, Calan for pointing out a major flaw a few years ago, and everyone else who's expressed interest.

The current version is an Excel 97-2003 file, and has been tested under Open Office (again, thanks to Damourc).

The sheet is intended to automate to the greatest degree possible:
Aging Effects on both Attributes and Flexible XP
Attribute/Trait/Skill Optimization
Skill Target Number Calculation (though it doesn't do things like Gremlins/Tech Empathy)

Instructions:

1) Set Up.  Insert a new worksheet and "copy all" from the "Sample" template.

2) Data Entry.  In Column A, enter each attribute/trait/skill and its respective XP cost in Column B.  When entering items in Column A, I recommend using formatting (outlines) to group items from the same modules and the SUBTOTAL function if you're using life modules (cells with SUBTOTALs will be ignored by the summation functions that total up column B; don't forget the first argument should be 9).  This makes error checking easier down the road.  Enter an asterisk in Column D to denote items that are "flexible" or chosen from a list.  This will also aid in error checking.  Be sure to enter Field Rebates as negative numbers.  This affects how column B is totaled.

Caution.  Never overwrite the "Aging Effects" block at the bottom of Columns A-D.  Always insert cells above it (not rows).  When doing this, span columns A-D to keep your asterisks lined up with the items they flag.  Also span all four columns when deleting excess cells.
There are also invisible index numbers in cells D2-D9, never overwrite these.

Once you have entered all the data in Columns A and B, use a "Fill Down" to propagate the formula in Column C in the attribute section all the way to the bottom of the list.  You should see x's next to items already listed in Column E, and blanks next to those that are not.

3) Reconciliation.  In Column E, enter all unique line items in the appropriate section (Traits/Skills; Attributes won't change).  Like Columns A-D, when inserting or deleting cells, always span Columns E-Q to keep the formulas lined up below.  Further, make sure you insert new rows in the middle of the lists.  This prevents overwriting key formulas at the bottom, and helps keep the formatting cleaner.  Also make sure your spelling is consistent.  When Column C has x's next to all line items (i.e. not section headings/SUBTOTALs), you have listed all the unique items.  A secondary check is when the Miscellaneous Checks cells (two below the skill table in Column M) are the same.  Both of those totals are unoptimized as noted.  The Cost Summary block further down should also aid in error checking.

4) Optimization.  Once you've accounted for everything listed in Columns A and B in Column E, spend XP in Column I until "XP Balance" is zero.  As a note, attribute minimums must be manually entered and met.  Additional Traits and Skills can be added by simply inserting blank lines in the Trait or Skill sections, making sure to span Columns E-Q to keep all the formulas aligned.  Negative Traits added this way will be accounted for in the "Bought XP" block below the Balance Sheet.

5) Balance Sheet details.  This section below the skill table helps account for the total XP pool:
Manually enter the base XP your GM has granted.

Attribute XP from Age and Flex XP from Age are automatically calculated from the character's age as determined by the life modules taken, and if you've chosen a Clan affiliation in cell T2 (if you're Clan, make sure "Clan" is first in the cell; it doesn't matter what comes after that).  In the upper right hand corner of the sheet (Column R), make sure you enter all the module durations.  These will be totaled in cell T16 to determine aging effects at the bottom of Column B, which are then summed in Column F.

Field Rebates.  This cell automatically sums the field rebates from Column B. For the calculation to work, they should all be negative in Column B.

The Starting XP Pool is simply the sum of the Starting Base XP, Age XP (for Attributes and Flex), and Field Rebates.

Spent XP is the sum of all the End XP from column J.

XP Balance is the difference between the two, and should be zero when you're done.

Bought XP is a calculation based on negative traits that weren't part of modules (i.e. not listed in Columns A and B; these should have a Start XP of 0).  The 10% limit is a manual check because GMs can bend this rule.

6)  Finishing Touches.  Enter the character's name, height in cm and weight in kg in Column T.  Formulas below those cells provide height in inches and weight in pounds for those still stuck with non-metric measures.  At this point, you may also wish to sort the Trait and Skill lists.  I use Value/Level as the primary index, but you can use what ever you want.  When sorting, make sure you grab all of the manually entered data at a minimum.  The formulas will sort themselves out.

Note: The Sample Modules sheet only lists the modules used by the Sample Character in an effort to limit "verbatim material" as per a request from the Line Developer when I made the first version.  The Data Tables sheet similarly has the minimum amount of information necessary for the lookup functions to work.

Please post questions and/or bug reports here.
« Last Edit: 08 February 2019, 21:20:08 by Daryk »

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #1 on: 26 December 2017, 14:48:49 »
Phoenixstorm recently pointed out the Special Pilot Abilities (SPAs) I had missed in the A Time of War Companion.  These have now been added to v4-5 of my spreadsheet, along with the Trait introduced in the Companion (Mutation). If the TPTB add "Lucky" or any other SPAs I missed from Campaign Operations, they will be added to a future version.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #2 on: 14 January 2019, 17:45:00 »
Helping BiggRigg42 with his videos on character creation led me to discover errors in the sample character in the spreadsheet.  They have been corrected in v4-6, attached below.  No calculations were affected, so those who downloaded the previous version don't need to re-download this one.  The instructions in the first post are also still good.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #3 on: 02 February 2019, 02:05:29 »
I'm getting close to figuring out this Excel character generator. I completed step 3 in your instructions, and there is an x next to all of the line items column C. However, I have not met the secondary check within step 3; the miscellaneous checks cells are not equal.


Do you have any idea what may have went wrong or what I should check for?

Wait, I think I just figured it out. Nobody give me the answer just yet. Say a prayer of supplication for me.

Blessed be Blake's word. I figured it out. Go figure I would fix it on my own only after I asked for help.
« Last Edit: 02 February 2019, 02:13:32 by BiggRigg42 »

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #4 on: 02 February 2019, 06:01:43 »
If you do need help, just let me know!  Glad you were able to figure it out!  :thumbsup:

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #5 on: 03 February 2019, 23:15:54 »
Peace of Blake be upon you my friend. My conflict with the machine has ended.

I have reviewed this and edited it some, though I may wait a bit longer before I put it in the playlist with other videos and tell the world (i.e., Facebook) about it. So, everyone should feel free to point out any mistakes I may have made, but I don't think there is anything significantly wrong with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kafn-J5fhsM

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #6 on: 04 February 2019, 00:02:44 »
Did anyone else get some weird green screen at around 9:59?

And I don't know if you've considered it, or if you thought it might be too clunky, but have you thought about laying the excel sheet on top of the PDF so you can manipulate it without having to swap it back and forth constantly?

I'm also not sure on how it would work with the chargen exactly (I use my own sheet so aren't familiar with it), but what about keeping the Main Affiliation (FWL) and its Sub Affiliation all in the first Stage 0 box, and the CS main and sub affiliation in the second box, rather than splitting them up?

My guess with the problems with the Xs that you have is that you either didn't highlight columns C and D when you were inserting rows. or you forgot to fill down the C column.

And just a hint, especially since the typing matters in the spreadsheet, you can use Tab to autocomplete phrases that are already in the Column. So for instance, after you typed "Training" for the first time, you can simply start to type "Training" and hit tab once it pops up. Be careful though, because if you have similar phrases (Pilot/Mech and Pilot/Aircraft) using this shortcut can give you the wrong one if you're not paying attention.
« Last Edit: 04 February 2019, 00:51:18 by Maelwys »

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #7 on: 04 February 2019, 00:22:51 »
Did anyone else get some weird green screen at around 9:59?

And I don't know if you've considered it, or if you thought it might be too clunky, but have you thought about laying the excel sheet on top of the PDF so you can manipulate it without having to swap it back and forth constantly?

I'm also not sure on how it would work with the chargen exactly (I use my own sheet so aren't familiar with it), but what about keeping the Main Affiliation (FWL) and its Sub Affiliation all in the first Stage 0 box, and the CS main and sub affiliation in the second box, rather than splitting them up?



The green screen is a result of iMovie not playing nice with the Excel frames; I don't think there is anything I can do about it. A lot of this video was cut out and pasted back together. This is signified to happen when the screen turns into a box and rotates. Also, I'm not sure how laying the excel sheet on top of the PDF would work.
« Last Edit: 04 February 2019, 00:30:19 by BiggRigg42 »

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #8 on: 04 February 2019, 01:12:38 »
Also, the White Collar/ComStar Prerequisite conflict isn't exactly a conflict.

White Collar requires a +3 TP in Property OR Wealth.

ComStar says you can't take any Property Traits. So that means you have to take Wealth at +3 to satisfy the White Collar Life Path prerequisite and the ComStar Affiliation restrictions. The work around is fine, just pointing out that there isn't exactly a conflict there.

edit
And its driving me crazy, but what are the asterisks in Column D signifying? I can't seem to figure it out.
/edit

Also, not sure how the sheet handles it, but I think your forgot to spend your Flex XP. At the end, it seems to have accumulated nearly 500 points in your Skill section, but Flex isn't a skill or trait, its a placeholder for XP that lets you customize each life path.

So unless I'm missing something, and that's possible, you might have a large chunk of XP just sitting there.
« Last Edit: 04 February 2019, 01:38:40 by Maelwys »

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #9 on: 04 February 2019, 01:35:39 »
Also, the White Collar/ComStar Prerequisite conflict isn't exactly a conflict.

White Collar requires a +3 TP in Property OR Wealth.

ComStar says you can't take any Property Traits. So that means you have to take Wealth at +3 to satisfy the White Collar Life Path prerequisite and the ComStar Affiliation restrictions. The work around is fine, just pointing out that there isn't exactly a conflict there.

edit

And its driving me crazy, but what are the asterisks in Column D signifying? I can't seem to figure it out.
/edit

You are right; it's not a conflict. However, I needed at least a 3+TP in wealth, which I didn't take. So, I still used the Game Master Arbitration rule. I must have been tired; I'm not sure why I thought I saw a conflict there. This will be mentioned in the video description.

The asterisks signify some kind of arbitrary choice. I explain how they work at one point but don't use them regularly. They are just for error checking and don't change anything.

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #10 on: 04 February 2019, 01:41:10 »
Ah, okay. That's cool. Placeholders are helpful.

Hope you caught the second edit of my post above, that might be the most helpful one.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #11 on: 04 February 2019, 02:18:48 »
Ah, okay. That's cool. Placeholders are helpful.

Hope you caught the second edit of my post above, that might be the most helpful one.


Ah yes, the flex is supposed to go where I put it per the sample character I am mimicking. However, I may have filled down the formulas too far. I'm not sure if this made a difference or not. We will have to ask Daryk. There may be a really easy fix for this.
« Last Edit: 04 February 2019, 02:22:41 by BiggRigg42 »

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #12 on: 04 February 2019, 02:31:53 »
If you do need help, just let me know!  Glad you were able to figure it out!  :thumbsup:

Hey Daryk, Maelwys may have pointed out a mistake I made with my Flex XP. I probably filled down the formulas in columns E-Q too far. There is probably an easy fix for this.



Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #13 on: 04 February 2019, 02:46:20 »
Yeah, I was about to say that he had it done differently, I'm just not sure how, and what the results might be.

I'm not sure if it got mentioned or not, and if this video was more of a "here's how to use the spreadsheet" rather than "Here's how to make a character," but you might want to mention that there are limits to what you can spend Flex points on. For instance, in Stage 2 you can't spend more than 35 flex points on a single skill, or more than 200 on a single Trait. I don't think the spreadsheet can limit it, but its something to keep in mind as the creation process goes on.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #14 on: 04 February 2019, 05:10:54 »
Yep, you went too far with the formulas to the right of column F.  Column G should be simply "negative" column F, and I, K, and M through Q should be blank.  G, J, and L should be SUBTOTALs of the columns to their left (for G and J, that's the same as above in the list; L is very different).

I'll try to take a look at the video tonight after work, thanks!  :thumbsup:

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #15 on: 04 February 2019, 10:16:24 »
Cool, I may make a part 2 correcting the Flex XP or see if I can still edit some more.

CoreWatch

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #16 on: 04 February 2019, 15:58:09 »
G'day gents!

I peruse these forums every now and then for info and new ideas to use myself for use in my BT/MW campaign and I came across this thread. First off, kudos for keeping the fire alive for this game. It's honestly a hard sell to get some players to make characters for this game without getting frustrated due to the complexity of making a character. So, every time I see someone willing to put up nice and simple excel sheet (like yours Daryk) and now a simple and effective YouTube training video (like yours BiggRiggs42), well needless to say it makes me happy to know that folks care enough to keep it alive and educate the masses!

Having said that, I'd like to add that once upon a time on this forum, a gentleman by the name of Gigobyte also had a decent character creator excel sheet up on this forum as well. While I'm not trying to hijack your thread or promote his character sheet over yours. I figured I would at least throw it up here for folks to access from my dropbox. Again the credit is all his for the creation of it, I've just have made use of it in my game.

Gigobyte's Character Creator on CoreWatch's Dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w17kyhv3jsgwtlo/AAAX7TuhsoO5FRRam68S1mSka?dl=0

Cheers gents!
-CW


Addendum...

Here was his original thread on this forum as well for it...

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=42679.0
« Last Edit: 04 February 2019, 16:05:22 by CoreWatch »

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #17 on: 04 February 2019, 18:39:07 »
No worries, CoreWatch!  I think I corresponded with Gigobyte back in the day.  I offer my players the option of just telling me what they want, and doing the heavy lifting for them with my spreadsheet, then letting them negotiate tweaks.

I'm almost through all my threads, and will hit the video as soon as I'm done...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #18 on: 04 February 2019, 18:53:02 »
OK, first things first... my name is pronounced like the more conventionally spelled "Derek".  I blame my parents...  ;D

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #19 on: 04 February 2019, 18:57:14 »
Quick note: the SUBTOTAL formula is useful because Excel will ignore it when doing SUM functions on the column.  That's why I used it (to aid error checking without requiring me to change the SUMs).

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #20 on: 04 February 2019, 19:02:30 »
I'll say you chose the most challenging Stage 0 with ComStar.  If you PM your e-mail address, I'll clog your inbox with the spreadsheet from my game (which is MOSTLY ComStar personnel).  You'll probably have to check your spam folder when I send it, as it's pretty big.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #21 on: 04 February 2019, 19:08:37 »
You can do the Secondary Affiliations that way, but I insert new headings with new SUBTOTAL functions to make error checking easier.  That's just me, though.  You do you!  8)

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #22 on: 04 February 2019, 19:12:07 »
Excel tip: when you click on a range in a cell (like when you did for B15:B16), you will notice it highlights on the sheet with a colored box.  You can also drag the corner of that colored box to adjust the range.  :thumbsup:

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #23 on: 04 February 2019, 19:20:20 »
I'm hoping you eventually caught that "/" in "Small Arms" in your Basic Training Field around 19:00.  That may have contributed to your accounting error later...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #24 on: 04 February 2019, 19:25:49 »
The only other point I'd make around 22:00 about Skill Fields from schools is that you can take only two... you don't HAVE to take three.  You do need to take at least two, though (one Basic, and "at least one" Advanced, per page 70).

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #25 on: 04 February 2019, 19:29:53 »
Another Excel tip, just shy of 25:00: if you simply delete those extra cells below Row 144, the SUBTOTAL will automatically adjust.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #26 on: 04 February 2019, 19:33:26 »
Just shy of 26:00, I think I spotted another accounting error.  I think you missed the 50 XP of Flex from the ComStar Service Stage 4 module.  Hopefully you caught that, but I'm only half way through the video...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #27 on: 04 February 2019, 19:35:57 »
Around 27:00, you might want to mention that you have to enter in all the ages correctly (to include making sure the "Age" total covers the right cells) for the "Aging Effects" rows to adjust correctly.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #28 on: 04 February 2019, 19:37:51 »
That is a very clear explanation around 28:00!  :thumbsup:

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #29 on: 04 February 2019, 19:42:35 »
Aha!  I see where the error with the Flex originated around 31:00... It looks like you overwrote the Flex with Administration.  That probably caused no end of trouble with the accounting.  Perhaps I should mention that in the instructions (i.e., to only insert new cells above the Flex)...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #30 on: 04 February 2019, 19:44:09 »
Also, formatting-wise, I usually insert new skill rows in the middle of the Skill (or Trait) list to avoid the extra outlines.  Sorting the list later will clean things up.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #31 on: 04 February 2019, 19:47:08 »
Excel tip: the keyboard shortcut for Fill Down is "Ctrl-D"... :)

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #32 on: 04 February 2019, 19:51:32 »
Just shy of 36:00 is another reason I insert in the middle of the lists... When you do it that way, it automatically adjusts the formulas in Column C...  I think I definitely need to mention that in the instructions, but I'll hold off until I've gone through the whole video...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #33 on: 04 February 2019, 19:52:59 »
Yikes!  Just after 36:00 is where the flag should have gone up on the whole Flex thing... The formula treated it as a skill, not an error checking function.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #34 on: 04 February 2019, 19:53:59 »
Excel tip: you can insert or delete more than one row at a time...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #35 on: 04 February 2019, 20:03:57 »
Just saw 44:00... you got those two cells to balance, but the Flex row is still not right (as discussed above).  I hate to say it, but I think you're going to have to go back to before you overwrote that row... Ten minutes of video to go!

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #36 on: 04 February 2019, 20:22:17 »
Ok, all done with my review.  I think fixing the Flex row and everything after that initial error will clean up everything.  I could be wrong, though, and will definitely check out the next version.  Again, thanks for doing this!  :thumbsup:

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #37 on: 04 February 2019, 22:08:19 »
Ok, I have gone through all of the comments and will be addressing the ones that need addressing in the order in which they appeared. Let me know if fail to address something that you want me to. Also, this is my first time using Excel guys. Thank you so much for helping me learn it. I'm applying for internships in editing and tech writing as a part of my capstone for my college degree, and some of my class mates said that I may need to know Excel.

1. Yes Daryk, I will send you my e-mail over a PM.

2. I did catch the Small/Arms problem. Catching that got cut out in the editing process. This video was originally 1 hour and 52 minutes long. So, I cut out some stuff. 

3. Regarding the 22:00 mark about the skill fields, I should word things better to explicitly mention that one does not have to take 3 skill fields.

4. At the 26:00 mark I did forget the 50 flex for ComStar. It was invisible to me until now. Literally, I just spent 2 full minutes staring at the stage 4 ComStar module without seeing it. Then BAM, it was there--weird.

5. The flex error at 31:00 and your way of correcting it has been noted.

6. I will insert into the middle of the list now. No more 36:00 mess ups for me.

7. It is possible to insert or delete more than one cell? Oh, it is, just figured it out: cool.

8.The flex row is wrong, but it is funny that "flex" pops up as a skill linked to STR & DEX


Allright, now that I have a better idea of what I am doing, I will make a new video to replace this one. I'm in a better position to plan things out now. Some parts may also be scritped. Perhaps I will fill out the life modules in the Sample Modules tab before I begin filming; that should minimize the chance of me getting fatigued and making a mistake. Don't worry, I will make a giant check list of things for me not to forget.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #38 on: 05 February 2019, 05:07:37 »
Sounds like a plan!  For your first time using Excel, you did great!  It gets easier with time and practice... :)

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #39 on: 08 February 2019, 18:23:54 »
It took me a bit to figure out how you were handling Clan Aging (a nice little trick) but you might want to mention it in the write up, incase others without excel experience aren't quite sure, or decide to just say "Goliath Scorpions" for their Affiliation, rather than "Clan Goliath Scorpions." (or atleast I think that's how that works)

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #40 on: 08 February 2019, 18:32:36 »
Ah... clan aging... I don't remember programming that in, but it is an easy enough fix (if manual).

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #41 on: 08 February 2019, 21:09:56 »
It seems to work fine the way it is. I just think that it could use a mention that they have to write their Affiliation in T2 as "Clan etc" rather than just "etc"

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #42 on: 08 February 2019, 21:11:38 »
I must have put it in at some point, because the logic for it is programmed correctly.  I'll edit it into the instructions.  Thanks!

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #43 on: 08 February 2019, 21:21:37 »
Added that point to the instructions, along with the reason for inserting in the middle of the lists as pointed out by BiggRigg42.  Please let me know if I wasn't clear.  :)

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #44 on: 08 February 2019, 21:59:18 »
Added that point to the instructions, along with the reason for inserting in the middle of the lists as pointed out by BiggRigg42.  Please let me know if I wasn't clear.  :)

Awesome, I just looked over the new addition to the instructions.

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #45 on: 08 February 2019, 23:46:05 »
How does Flex work on the sheet? Is it just like another pool kind of like Aging?

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #46 on: 09 February 2019, 05:36:53 »
Flex also comes from modules and is where all the points from optimization go.  It's very much a "catch all".

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #47 on: 10 February 2019, 20:41:55 »
I did notice one thing. I was playing around with making a Clan character and my Charisma wound up at a -30 after all the Modules. The optimization aspect added 100 to the score, bringing it up to 70. However, it should have brought it up automatically to 1, rather than just adding 100 to it.

Same with the EDG score which wound up at 0 (yeah, Clan characters are kind of...eh if you go by the modules...). The optimization process should be bringing the stat up to 100.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #48 on: 10 February 2019, 21:01:05 »
Hmmm... I'll have to look at that, then.  The formula is supposed to do exactly what you describe.  Thanks for the catch!

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #49 on: 10 February 2019, 23:07:13 »
I got the new version up. The video was made differently from the rough draft. This version lasts for about 23 minutes, and I didn't have to do any serious editing work to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fy_HDMZoiw&index=13&list=PLW4v4K6PB7qIWAumfYAqdfxOlk4OgDOTD

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #50 on: 10 February 2019, 23:11:46 »
Cool... I'll have to take a look at it after work tomorrow (unless the snow coming down cancels work, of course...).

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #51 on: 11 February 2019, 01:47:23 »
Its a minor thing, and I'm not sure if its possible or not to change the behavior without adding in a few oddities, but the Phenotype Trait has a cost of 0. When you add it to the sheet, its going to automatically cross itself off for not having any points assigned to it.

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #52 on: 11 February 2019, 02:42:40 »
I got the new version up. The video was made differently from the rough draft. This version lasts for about 23 minutes, and I didn't have to do any serious editing work to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fy_HDMZoiw&index=13&list=PLW4v4K6PB7qIWAumfYAqdfxOlk4OgDOTD

After a quick watch before I pass out, the end is a bit confusing, but simply because you're trying to figure out what cell you're looking for, so it gets a bit confusing for the viewer if they aren't sure I think, but that's not too bad.

And I'm not sure on this next suggestion, because its more of a how to to use the sheet rather than how to make the character, but at no point do you say (or atleast I don't think you did) "Okay, the Starting XP column is how much XP you gained from the Life Modules, the Optimization column is showing how much excess XP you have over the highest usable value, the subtotal column is the optimized XP value, the spend column is how much you want to spend from your pool, and the End XP column is how much you have total in that attribute/trait/skill, and that determines the final value according to the rules."

Though again, that's more for "Here's how to make a character" rather than "Here's how the sheet works."

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #53 on: 11 February 2019, 05:41:09 »
Good point on Phenotype, Maelwys… that might merit a separate spot on the sheet.  Honestly, clan characters were an after thought for me.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #54 on: 11 February 2019, 11:00:44 »
After a quick watch before I pass out, the end is a bit confusing, but simply because you're trying to figure out what cell you're looking for, so it gets a bit confusing for the viewer if they aren't sure I think, but that's not too bad.


Yeah I totally misspoke at the end there. So, I put in an edit in the video description explaining that.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #55 on: 11 February 2019, 11:04:03 »

And I'm not sure on this next suggestion, because its more of a how to to use the sheet rather than how to make the character, but at no point do you say (or atleast I don't think you did) "Okay, the Starting XP column is how much XP you gained from the Life Modules, the Optimization column is showing how much excess XP you have over the highest usable value, the subtotal column is the optimized XP value, the spend column is how much you want to spend from your pool, and the End XP column is how much you have total in that attribute/trait/skill, and that determines the final value according to the rules."

Though again, that's more for "Here's how to make a character" rather than "Here's how the sheet works."

I have two other videos up on how to make a character. When I tried making this video on how to make a character and use the sheet, it ended up being too long. That's why this is simply a, "Here is how the sheet works" video.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #56 on: 11 February 2019, 12:11:04 »
After a quick watch before I pass out, the end is a bit confusing, but simply because you're trying to figure out what cell you're looking for, so it gets a bit confusing for the viewer if they aren't sure I think, but that's not too bad.


Actually, that part is worse than I thought it was, especially for an ending. I edited it out and recorded a better ended. A third draft with this better ended in uploading to YouTube now. So, the 2nd draft was taken down.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #57 on: 11 February 2019, 13:25:50 »
Draft 3 is up. I made a better ending because I misspoke so badly, and it got confusing (even though I completed the character properly). Thanks for the feed back Maelwys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOr1wTQeSjY&index=14&t=0s&list=PLW4v4K6PB7qIWAumfYAqdfxOlk4OgDOTD
« Last Edit: 11 February 2019, 13:35:06 by BiggRigg42 »

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #58 on: 11 February 2019, 19:09:28 »
I should be through my various threads in about 10-15 minutes, and will then give it a watch... thanks again!

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #59 on: 11 February 2019, 19:47:50 »
Woo!  Thanks for pronouncing my name correctly!  You have NO idea how often I get called "Daryl" by people assuming it's a typo...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #60 on: 11 February 2019, 19:53:02 »
I mentioned this before, but around 4:30 or so, it might be worth mentioning that SUBTOTALs are excluded from SUM functions, so they're safe to have in a long list you want to add up later.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #61 on: 11 February 2019, 19:54:12 »
Around 5 minutes, the thing to know is that Early Childhood is always 10 years, and Late Childhood is always 6.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #62 on: 11 February 2019, 19:58:38 »
Around 8:00, the fact that the SUBTOTAL range is correct is a direct consequence of inserting/deleting in the middle of the list.  Excel is actually pretty smart for a spreadsheet...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #63 on: 11 February 2019, 20:02:08 »
The keyboard shortcut for BOLD is Ctrl-B (that should save you a bit of ribbon navigation)...

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #64 on: 11 February 2019, 20:07:12 »
You might want to explain that "9" in the SUBTOTAL function (it tells Excel to just do a normal SUM vice something odd like Standard Deviation, Average, etc.). You'd have thought SUM would be the "1" option, but who knows what Microsoft was thinking...  ::)

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #65 on: 11 February 2019, 20:09:27 »
I've mentioned this before too, but the easiest way to adjust the range of a SUBTOTAL (or any function with a range, really) is to just click and drag the corner of the range.  This refers to ~12:00.

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #66 on: 11 February 2019, 20:11:39 »
At about 12:43, you say "Column B" when you mean "Column E" (verified via close captioning).  You might want to fix that before going final.

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #67 on: 11 February 2019, 20:16:49 »
Around 15:00, you probably want to do the "Fill Down" from the middle for one of the same reasons as you insert or delete in the middle: it keeps the formatting cleaner.  The reason you got outlines around all the cells in column I was that you filled from the top cell, which had an outline at the top.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #68 on: 11 February 2019, 20:25:38 »
Excel tip: a "$" symbol tells excel to never automatically adjust the row or column reference prefaced with it.  So that miscellaneous check cell will always look in column F, but we have to rely on the user to do the insert/delete process you outlined correctly to make sure the row reference is correct.  This is one of the reasons the instructions are insistent on spanning so many columns when inserting and deleting.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #69 on: 11 February 2019, 20:30:48 »
OK, last but not least, the Surplus column (Column L) tells you when you've spent too much XP on an Attribute, Trait, or Skill.  When you threw 240 at INT, you had a Surplus of -40 (it should always be 0).

Otherwise, great video!  I appreciate all the time you've put into explaining my sheet in video format!  :thumbsup:

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #70 on: 11 February 2019, 20:33:26 »
At about 12:43, you say "Column B" when you mean "Column E" (verified via close captioning).  You might want to fix that before going final.

Darn closed captioning, I really thought I said it right.

Thanks for all the feed back. There is some work and school stuff ahead of me this week, but making this latest version was fairly easy. So, making a final version with your latest feedback in it should not take me too long.

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #71 on: 11 February 2019, 20:35:26 »
Awesome... glad to hear the process is getting easier for you!  :thumbsup:

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #72 on: 11 February 2019, 20:37:53 »
I've mentioned this before too, but the easiest way to adjust the range of a SUBTOTAL (or any function with a range, really) is to just click and drag the corner of the range.  This refers to ~12:00.

I'm not sure how I missed that, probably had too many things happening in my mind to implement it. However, that is the more sensical way to do it.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #73 on: 11 February 2019, 20:39:26 »
If Excel was easy, there wouldn't be a wage premium for knowing it...  ^-^

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #74 on: 11 February 2019, 20:57:20 »
I did notice one thing. I was playing around with making a Clan character and my Charisma wound up at a -30 after all the Modules. The optimization aspect added 100 to the score, bringing it up to 70. However, it should have brought it up automatically to 1, rather than just adding 100 to it.

Same with the EDG score which wound up at 0 (yeah, Clan characters are kind of...eh if you go by the modules...). The optimization process should be bringing the stat up to 100.
Hmmm... not sure what's wrong there... when I had put in odd amounts of negative XP for EDG to experiment, it correctly brought the stat up to 100...

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #75 on: 12 February 2019, 02:55:08 »
I'll play around with a new copy, see if I broke something during copying and pasting and will get back to you tomorrow about it.

One thing BiggRigg42 might want to cover is how to handle Buying additional XP by purchasing negative traits. I'm not sure the process is intuitive.

Maelwys

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #76 on: 12 February 2019, 12:31:00 »
Or the computer I was working on could crash completely, so I might be a bit silent on this while I figure out things.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #77 on: 12 February 2019, 19:05:28 »
No worries... I'll be here whenever you get back!  :thumbsup:

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #78 on: 12 February 2019, 20:06:03 »
One thing BiggRigg42 might want to cover is how to handle Buying additional XP by purchasing negative traits. I'm not sure the process is intuitive.

I explain that in two other videos that I have in the playlist. It may be too much for people to learn how to use Excel and how to create a character at the same time.

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #79 on: 16 February 2019, 15:39:32 »
The video is unavailable, did it get pulled to be worked on?

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #80 on: 16 February 2019, 17:01:37 »
That would be my guess... we've given BiggRigg42 a good chunk of feedback.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #81 on: 16 February 2019, 18:04:33 »
The video is unavailable, did it get pulled to be worked on?

Yep, I took it down because I am working on the final draft. In fact, I just sat down to finish that final draft.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #82 on: 16 February 2019, 18:16:05 »

And I'm not sure on this next suggestion, because its more of a how to to use the sheet rather than how to make the character, but at no point do you say (or atleast I don't think you did) "Okay, the Starting XP column is how much XP you gained from the Life Modules, the Optimization column is showing how much excess XP you have over the highest usable value, the subtotal column is the optimized XP value, the spend column is how much you want to spend from your pool, and the End XP column is how much you have total in that attribute/trait/skill, and that determines the final value according to the rules."


I'm taking notes on this feedback and incorporating it: thanks.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #83 on: 17 February 2019, 02:31:59 »
I got a good take in today of the final draft, but I may be able to get a slightly better take in later. It actually looks like I know what I'm doing now. This final version will all be done in one take with no iMovie editing to prevent the green screen from happening; it will also be under 25 min.s long.

We can expect the final draft to be up within a week. 

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #84 on: 17 February 2019, 06:08:50 »
Excellent, I look forward to seeing it!  :)

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #85 on: 12 March 2019, 11:21:54 »
Sorry this took so long. Work and school got really brutal. This draft is going to have to do. I got much of everyone's feedback in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1-lSiXUGoE

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #86 on: 12 March 2019, 19:58:20 »
No worries... I was on the road all last week with less than stellar connectivity anyway.  It's a bit late tonight to start a review, and tomorrow is my (usually) weekly D&D game.  Hopefully I'll be home earlier on Thursday.  If not, it'll be the weekend before I can give you a good scrub.

Thanks again for doing this!  I think it will definitely help sell more people on AToW!  :thumbsup:

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #87 on: 17 March 2019, 20:19:38 »
Just got to 4:00... it's hilarious, but you might want to edit out that sneeze... ;)

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #88 on: 17 March 2019, 20:29:12 »
That was a good discussion of SUBTOTAL around 8:00 or so.  The only other thing I might have mentioned was that SUBTOTALs aren't counted when doing sums on the whole column.  Basically, it helps the human error check while not screwing up the machine error checking (that compares the sum of the whole column to what's been entered to the right).

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #89 on: 17 March 2019, 20:45:24 »
Around 18 minutes, I have to say you're copying the SUBTOTAL formula the hard way.  You can just copy and paste the whole cell, then adjust the range as you previously described.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #90 on: 17 March 2019, 21:19:14 »
Around 30 minutes is where you point to the machine error checking I mentioned above.

BiggRigg42

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #91 on: 18 March 2019, 11:30:01 »
Thanks again for all of your feedback. Unfortunately, I have too much other work going on in my life right now to put anymore work into this video. I did put in some of your recent feedback into my video description.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #92 on: 18 March 2019, 19:40:37 »
No worries... real life absolutely takes priority, and it's exactly why my scrub was delayed.  Thanks again for doing this!  :thumbsup:

victor_shaw

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #93 on: 16 September 2019, 01:07:18 »
Not sure if it's due to limited knowledge or limited time, but have you ever thought about setting up drop-downs for this sheet?

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #94 on: 16 September 2019, 05:01:09 »
No... Aside from not knowing how to do them, I think the lists are too long to support them in a useful way.  What exactly did you have in mind?

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #95 on: 16 September 2019, 13:55:17 »
No... Aside from not knowing how to do them, I think the lists are too long to support them in a useful way.  What exactly did you have in mind?

Well the only issues I have with the spreadsheet it the amount of typing you have to do with it.
If each of the sections could be set with a drop-down then it would be more point and click.
Not vastly important, but just another thought to try to snag players.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #96 on: 16 September 2019, 16:29:21 »
When I first built the sheet Herb (the then-line developer) asked me to minimize verbatim content.  I figured drop downs would have violated that request, so didn't look into them.

victor_shaw

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #97 on: 16 September 2019, 20:53:17 »
When I first built the sheet Herb (the then-line developer) asked me to minimize verbatim content.  I figured drop downs would have violated that request, so didn't look into them.

Oh I figured since the other Spreadsheet had them it was OK, but since you where told by Herb not to then go with that.  :thumbsup:

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #98 on: 16 September 2019, 20:57:28 »
Thanks!  I do appreciate the feedback!  :thumbsup:

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #99 on: 17 September 2019, 18:08:24 »
Thanks!  I do appreciate the feedback!  :thumbsup:

Also, I am fairly far along on a complete conversion of the 3rd edition faction schools over to AToW.
Have all the Info sorted in a excel document and just have to fine tune it.
Should have this done in a day or two, and since you have done similar work before was wondering if you wanted to take a look at the results.

Daryk

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #100 on: 17 September 2019, 18:40:30 »
Absolutely!  I just did a first pass at the Faction level down in Fan Rules... Would love your take on those in light of your current work...  :)

Bosefius

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Re: AToW Character Generation Spreadsheet (Redux)
« Reply #101 on: 18 September 2019, 21:50:31 »
Hey folks, just a reminder that all fan rules/fan created content needs to stay in the "Fan Rules" section. The Sarna Academy Path posts have been moved down there.

Thanks
Bosefius
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