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Author Topic: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?  (Read 13838 times)

ZombieAcePilot

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PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« on: 28 April 2016, 08:11:11 »
Both the large laser and PPC are high damage/high heat. The PPC boasts a larger maximum range with a minimum range while the laser has the shorter range but no minimum.

Are there any reasons other than the obvious trade offs of range to pick one over the other?

Sharpnel

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #1 on: 28 April 2016, 08:12:43 »
PPC all the way for me.
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The Eagle

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #2 on: 28 April 2016, 08:29:53 »
It's largely a personal preference thing, I think.  In background terms the FWL had only one PPC factory by 3025 so thats why you see a lot of large lasers on their mechs. 
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False Son

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #3 on: 28 April 2016, 09:14:25 »
Large Laser.  No minimum range.
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Kovax

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #4 on: 28 April 2016, 10:48:06 »
The 1 heat per point of damage is identical.  The PPC takes up one more critical slot (50% more) and 2 more tons (40% more) in order to boost the damage (+25%) and shift the range band out by 3 hexes (+20%), leaving a weak area in the 3 closest hexes instead of 3 hexes where it simply can't reach.  All in all, I'd say the choice depends on the function of the 'Mech.

If I'm planning on closing into brawling range, and have the speed to do so, then I probably want the LL's infighting capability, unless I've already got a battery of MLs or SRMs to cover that, and don't have the heat dissipation to use both.  If I don't have the speed to close, or do, but would prefer to remain at longer range, then the PPC allows me to fight from that greater distance.  The PPC is more effective in a "bracket fire" design, while the LL excels in an "alpha strike" design.

There's no clear answer between the two, and I can easily see examples where one or the other would be the better option under the circumstances.  In my opinion, the ML is "King", and both the PPC and LL are merely somewhat dissimilar Lords under his mighty banner.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #5 on: 28 April 2016, 11:29:09 »
My preference is for the large laser, simply because PPCs have the bigger reputation as heavy guns while especially in modern games the classic large laser is often viewed as a medium weapon. This means the laser-focused units are often viewed as lesser threats, draw less fire(especially lighter units), and thus have more free time with which to pump laser bolts into their targets. >:D
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brother elf

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #6 on: 28 April 2016, 12:12:16 »
Both the large laser and PPC are high damage/high heat. The PPC boasts a larger maximum range with a minimum range while the laser has the shorter range but no minimum.

Are there any reasons other than the obvious trade offs of range to pick one over the other?

A PPC head hit will always (apart from oddity armor) cause a crit roll. It might just happen… (my heart is with the LL, though, because the two heat difference feels like a tiny bit more tactical flexibility in 3025).

Mech42ace

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #7 on: 28 April 2016, 12:30:49 »
Personally I would go with the large laser over the PPC, due to the minimum range that the PPC carries with it. With the large laser you are still doing damage where the PPC would not be. Allthough, it may depend on the type of engagement you're getting into. The PPC's greater range could come into use.
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #8 on: 28 April 2016, 12:34:23 »
I love both, personally. PPCs are great as hard hitting main guns for earlier eras, and maybe the main gun for lighter fusion-powered tanks to take exact advantage of the included heatsinks. But Large lasers are a bit easier to carry multiples of on the average from both mass and heat burden standpoints. A PPC weighs as much as a large laser and two heatsinks, giving the Large Laser a net 4 heat advantage, or higher if in later eras using DHS. I was a huge PPC junkie for the longest time, but large lasers have become more attractive to me as of late.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #9 on: 28 April 2016, 12:38:03 »
The problem with this is the comparison of just these two weapons.  In the larger scheme of things I think the PPC is a good, solid weapon, whereas I don't think that is true of the Large Laser.  It is only compared to the PPC that I think the Large Laser starts to look good.
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #10 on: 28 April 2016, 13:39:30 »
Waitaminute.

PPCs by themselves are good, large lasers are not, but compared to PPCs, lasers are good?

I'm confused...
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #11 on: 28 April 2016, 13:45:41 »
Waitaminute.

PPCs by themselves are good, large lasers are not, but compared to PPCs, lasers are good?

I'm confused...

Why?

I'd take one over a PPC if all my choices were Large Laser vs PPC.  If we opened it up to including other weapons, no.  I'd rather take a PPC and some other weapons like medium lasers to cover the minimum range than a Large Laser with LRMs to cover the long range reduction.
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #12 on: 28 April 2016, 13:58:22 »
Ah, so it's a case of

Large Laser > PPC
but
(PPC + backups) > (Large Laser + backups)

Okay, I can see that.
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Alexander Knight

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #13 on: 28 April 2016, 14:19:58 »
PPCs for everything!  PPCs for indirect fire!  :D

False Son

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #14 on: 28 April 2016, 14:25:33 »
PPCs for everything!  PPCs for indirect fire!  :D

Not infantry, please.
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #15 on: 28 April 2016, 14:28:29 »
Support PPCs with bacon on the barrel! Auto-succeed all morale checks! O0
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #16 on: 28 April 2016, 14:36:03 »
I prefer Large Lasers, though admittedly some of that is due to the Alpha Strike conversion process.  A PPC is 7 tons for (less than 1)/1/1 damage and 10 heat, while Large Laser is 5 tons for 0.8/0.8/0 damage and 8 heat.  The way rounding happens, you get 1 damage each for every PPC and Large Laser, until you reach 5 Large Lasers (at which point you have too many anyway).  4 Large Lasers is 20 tons, and gives you 4/4/0 for 32 heat, while the same tonnage in PPCs (even giving a bit of leeway) gets you 3/3/3 for 30, and a total of 12 PV cost each.  I don't spend a lot of time at Long Range, so the Large Lasers get the nod by a fairly significant margin.
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #17 on: 28 April 2016, 14:39:56 »
False Son draws the distinction between the bracket-fire approach (PPC for long, MLs for short) versus an alpha-strike design (both LL and MLs for short and medium range), or variations on that.

The standard 3025 GHR is a good example of the latter, while the WHM is in the former group.  They serve very different functions.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #18 on: 28 April 2016, 15:15:51 »
Not infantry, please.

Wierdo has the right of it!  PPC-armed infantry!

False Son

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #19 on: 28 April 2016, 15:25:28 »
Wierdo has the right of it!  PPC-armed infantry!

Worked out great for DEST...
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #20 on: 28 April 2016, 15:36:03 »
PPCs for everything!  PPCs for indirect fire!  :D

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #21 on: 28 April 2016, 16:31:18 »
[overheard in a general staff meeting]
"Sir, our proposal is to use vtols to hoist very large mirrors..."
Way back in the day one of my friends invented a custom weapon for the Eldar in a 40k campaign; a laser artillery piece that actually fired a giant mirror first and then bounced a laser beam off it! The quirk? The mirror came down on top of however stood halfway between the gun and the target! :D

Back on topic: I tend to follow the LL or PPC+secondaries school as well. In 3025 this is a pretty good choice since twin PPCs plus SHS and a full set of backups is really too heavy for anything but assaults, but twin LLs plus a LRM5 gives almost the same mid-range damage for a lot less weight.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #22 on: 28 April 2016, 17:33:42 »
Waitaminute.

PPCs by themselves are good, large lasers are not, but compared to PPCs, lasers are good?

I'm confused...

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Its going to depend upon the design. If you want to stay at range then the PPC since the longer range and larger brackets mean the difference between a +2 or +4 modifier to your target number.

If the design the weapon is being thrown onto is likely to close then the large laser since its just one more weapon that you could possibly fire at a target in an all or nothing situation. Chances are the design will have smaller weapons that cause less heat but can deal a large percent of the damage of the large laser, but if things are desperate then you have a higher chance of hitting with the LL then the PPC.

Just as with any other weapon, there is no way to say that one is always better then the other. With that said, if I had to pick one for a faction level game where the decision means units would be allowed to have one or the other weapon, I would opt for the large laser as it is generally easier to close then it is to maintain distance in a game.
« Last Edit: 28 April 2016, 17:35:47 by StoneRhino »

garhkal

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #23 on: 28 April 2016, 19:39:32 »
For me both are very similar.  1 dam per heat, LLs are 5 tons vice 7 of the PPCs but have a lower range and lesser brackets.  But the stand out is at least with the PPC i can cause a crit if i hit the head where i can't with the large.
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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #24 on: 28 April 2016, 21:10:47 »
Voting on the side of context, too. I'll take a Marauder 3M over a MAD-3R, but I'd prefer a Warhammer to either of them.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #25 on: 28 April 2016, 21:52:15 »
More of a PPC fan, but I probably use the LL more effectively because I tend to close ranges when playing.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #26 on: 28 April 2016, 22:13:07 »
It's largely a personal preference thing, I think.  In background terms the FWL had only one PPC factory by 3025 so thats why you see a lot of large lasers on their mechs.

I think this is the biggest thing in the discussion.
Voting on the side of context, too. I'll take a Marauder 3M over a MAD-3R, but I'd prefer a Warhammer to either of them.
As JadedFalcon said I would rather have the 3M or the 3R (but normally go with the 3D just due to faction pride), but I'd prefer a Grasshopper to either of them (or even a Warhammer).

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #27 on: 28 April 2016, 23:50:39 »
I prefer Large Lasers, however, the reality of the situation is there is only a handful of designs in 3025/3039 that effectively use them and cause a PSR.  Much easier to find designs with a couple PPCs up to that task for range and cover that 90m weak spot with Medium Lasers.  I love the Flashman and the Rifleman 4L from Techfactory.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #28 on: 29 April 2016, 06:34:31 »
PPCs all the way.

Can pierce any mechs head armour (outside Hardened or Reflective), and potentially land a killing blow in one shot.

Plus 2 PPC blows to force a PSR. Need 3 with LLs.

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Re: PPC or Large Laser, Which is King?
« Reply #29 on: 29 April 2016, 14:27:55 »
What else are you throwing on the mech? A Large laser goes great with an ac10,especially if you're allowed to mix in specialty ammo.

 

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