Building a custom Merc unit... But need help.

[Alan Davion]

I recently got it in my head to build myself a custom Mercenary unit for a few different causes and reasons.

One being the announcement of Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries by PGI last week during MechCon. Another being HBS' Battletech game which I just saw their update on melee combat earlier this week.

God I am so hyped for HBS' BT game. I plan on trying my best to replicate this mercenary unit in HBS' BT game when it eventually comes out.

One other reason being I'm a big roleplayer and I plan on making this merc unit into an RP profile on one of the sites I RP on. I don't plan on RPing the "entire" unit mind you, that would be ridiculous, just the 12 or so Mechwarriors at first.

If I get really ambitious I might expand the profile as I go to include other characters from one section or another.

Now, the big problem I have is two fold. One, I'm not good with coming up with names. Coming up with a House Unit name is considerably easier, but Merc unit names are a bit harder sometimes. I find a lot of the time they're a play on words to one degree or another, stemming from either the person that established the unit, or something to do with the mechs the unit uses.

Grayson Death Carlyle and the Gray Death Legion, or Barber's Marauder IIs for example.

As far as helping me with a name goes, I've been watching a lot of Knight Rider on the ELREY Network, and always liked, at least the name, of the Black Riders, aka the Ring Wraith's from Lord of the Rings. So probably something that has to do with Blitzkrieg, Cavalry, Knights and Riders would probably be appropriate.

I'm imagining the paint scheme would be primarily black, with red and gold as secondary or trim colors. The cockpit glass/windows/hatches/whatever also being a red color would be interesting.

For instance, take this Griffin below. I'd kind of imagine the main body being primarily black, with, let's say the big shoulder pauldrons and kneecaps painted in red, and the little stylized emblem on that right pauldron, there's probably one on the left as well, and the center of the knee colored in gold, and a little bit of red and gold thrown into like the chest and hips to finish it off.



And problem two, I'm not good with grouping up mechs or vehicles that would synergize well with each other. This, I'd bet real money on is due to the fact that I've never actually played the Table Top Battletech game to really learn the strengths or weaknesses of one unit with or against another.

All I really know is what I like the look of as far as mechs, fighters, vehicles and so on. I don't know what makes up a good scout lance versus a good fire or command lance, etc, especially when it comes to vehicles like Striker light tanks vs Pike Support vehicles or something.

Anyway, that all being said, I'd like to provide a list of mechs, vehicles and aerospace fighters that I like, as well as maybe some dropships, cause I've really gone back and forth on some of the dropships. When I get to the dropships I'll give a little of my reasoning for each.

Also, I'm imagining this Merc unit would primarily work for Davion and/or Steiner, set primarily between about 3005 and 3040, so during the 3rd Succession War up to Post 4th Succession War, before the Clans came romping onto the scene and royally mucked everything up.  8)

Please note, I don't hate the Clans, I just like the Inner sphere more.

So, onto the lists of equipment.

Mechs first naturally.

Light Mechs: Locust, Stinger, Wasp, Commando, Valkyrie, Firestarter, and naturally you can't have an effective scout group if you don't have an Ostscout. Well you probably can have a scout group without one, but it would not be as effective as it would be if it did. I don't know.  ::)

Medium Mechs: Whitworth, Blackjack, Hatchetman, Phoenix Hawk, Centurion, Enforcer, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Dervish, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine. I know that's a lot of mechs, since I'm only going for a Company sized unit, but I figure there's plenty of options to combine all these mechs between three lances. The Phoenix Hawk for example being a great scout lance leader.

An extra note, the leader of the unit I want to have piloting a Shadow Hawk. It's pretty much my absolute favorite mech.

Heavy Mechs: Rifleman, Catapult, Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer, Grasshopper, Warhammer and Marauder.

Assault Mechs: Charger, yeah I know it's only got small lasers, but an assault mech that can keep up with a few Light mechs and most Medium mechs is nothing to sneeze at, especially if it gets up close.  ;) Continuing on... Victor, Zeus, Battlemaster... I like the Longbow, but I'm not sure how, or if it would be a good fit in just one company of mechs. Something like a Battalion at least would probably be required to make effective use of the Longbow... And finally the Atlas. Can't forget Steiner's favorite scout mech now can we. *wink wink nudge nudge*  ;D

Using my 3025 TRO we come to the vehicles next, and I've never fully understood how vehicle units are organized. I know mechs are typically grouped up by fours, but can occasionally be grouped up by sixes, but augmented lances would work better with Battalion or Regiment sized forces. And Aerospace fighters are usually grouped up by twos, and sometimes threes, but vehicles are where I fail to figure out how they're grouped up.

Like for instance, the entry on the Excalibur dropship says it carries two full tank battalions totaling 90 vehicles. So one Battalion totals 45 vehicles, so that would be three companies of 15 vehicles each, which I guess would be three lances of 5 vehicles each.

Anyway, unlike with the Mechs, which I only have a company of, I would expect to need probably at least one Battalions worth of vehicles, with each company serving a different purpose. One straight combat company comprising tanks of various sorts, one Infantry support company, with APCs and some other support vehicles like attack helicopters, and finally a straight up unit support company, which would be your coolant and ammo transports, mobile headquarters and engineering vehicles, MASH trucks, etc.

And as I delve deeper into the vehicles I find there's a lot that can be used for infantry support, the biggest being that bigass Maxim Hover Transport that can carry and entire platoon instead of just a squad like the various APCs, a couple Helicopters and the Goblin Medium tank.

Whooboy. This could be a lot. Think I'll start with the easier stuff, the Infantry support.

Ferret Light Scout VTOL, Wheeled APC... I'm not sure if the Packrat LRPV, Skulker Scout tank and the Darter Scout car would be better serving in the infantry support or general unit support sections... Anyway, continuing on... The H-7 Warrior attack helicopter, Scorpion light tank, the GAL-100 Galleon light tank... Once again not sure on a couple vehicles, this time the Striker Light tank and the Hetzer wheeled assault gun, seems like both would be good for both infantry support and regular combat duty with the regular tanks... The Goblin medium tank, Maxim heavy hover transport, Vedette and Bulldog medium tanks also all seem well suited to both infantry support and straight combat...

Maybe the straight combat vehicles would be the easiest to pick out.

Bulldog medium tank, LRM carrier, Manticore heavy tank, Pike Support vehicle... I'd like to say the Mobile Long Tom, but it seems out of place in a Merc unit... I just can't help but like big honking artillery pieces... The Rommel/Patton tanks, the Von Luckner, and the Partisan heavy tank to finish it off.

Tanks like the Demolisher, Schrek, Ontos and Behemoth seem a little too powerful for a Merc unit, they'd probably be more appropriate in House units.

And finally we come to the general unit support vehicles.

Swiftwind Scout car, J-27 ordinance transports, MASH vehicles, Mobile HQ trucks, coolant trucks, the Karnov, Planetlifter and Cobra transport planes, and mobile engineering vehicles.

Now, as far as Dropships go, I almost feel like I really need an Excalibur in order to have enough space for all the vehicles the unit would need, but GOD it's got less weaponry than even a Union class.

My other thought for the main dropship was a Fortress class, that would give me the Long Tom I wanted earlier, and a much heavier weapons load over even the Union.

To get more vehicles, the best dropship I can find next to the Excalibur is the Triumph. Between the two that would give me 61 vehicles to work with, more even if the space for the 4 infantry platoons were ripped out as the Fortress carries a full company of infantry already.

An alternative to the Triumph is the Seeker, as I think that carries more vehicles from what I can see... Yeah, a Seeker paired with the Fortress yields a total of 84 vehicles... But it carries less weaponry than the Triumph.

Finally I figure I need fighter cover, but there are even fewer choices for that.

To keep to three total dropships, specifically dropships that can land on a planet, the Okinawa is the best ship but it's unfortunately outside my set timeline.

The Vengeance was my next thought since it can carry 40 fighters but it has to remain in space, which cuts off the mechs and other ground vehicles from air support... Can Aerospace fighters descend into atmosphere from space? I don't think they can.

Finally we have the Leopard CV, which can enter atmosphere and land, but only 6 fighters is too light a load I think. Does anyone know of a good fighter carrier, i.e. carries more than 6 fighters, that can enter atmosphere and land with the other dropships?

Aerospace fighters are where things get a bit easier as not all of the designs are used by all five houses, so I can limit the selection to a few generic designs and a few specific designs used by Davion and Steiner.

Specific aerospace fighters used by Davion and Steiner include the Corsair, Lucifer, Slayer, Chippewa and Stuka. While the generic aerospace fighters I like include the Hellcat and Eagle... I like the look of the Typhoon, but it seems a little too old and would be expensive as f*** to get replacement parts for.

And that finally brings us to the end of this massive experiment of mine. If you've stuck it out reading through this huge list of options and requests, I well and truly and sincerely thank you for taking the time to try and help me out on this.

Again, I really do apologize for having to ask so much, but without any experience at all actually playing the game and learning the different strengths and weaknesses of all the myriad mechs, vehicles and fighters, I really can't think of any other way to try and form an idea of how a unit like this would end up looking.

[Daryk]

Thanks for an interesting challenge!  As far as infantry and vehicles, I'd encourage you to take a look at my thread on the Glenmora Planetary Militia.  I built tracked, hover and VTOL transported combined vehicle/infantry units, and it's easy enough to strip out the custom Goblin variants (though if you're not opposed to them, I think they work well).

'Mech-wise, I recommend keeping your lances as close as possible to the same movement profile among themselves.  You seem to really want an Ostscout and a Shadow Hawk, so they will be exceptions.

Based on what you said, I'd go for:
Scout Lance (6/9/6 minimum): P-Hawk (Davion variant), Firestarter (Mirage variant), Ostscout, Super Stinger (the 2 Medium Laser variant)

Cavalry Lance (5/8/3 minimum): Marik Wolverine (WVR-6M), Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Dervish

Heavy Lance (4/6/4): Grasshopper, Victor, Catapult, Thunderbolt (Eridani variant)

[Alan Davion]

Thanks for an interesting challenge!  As far as infantry and vehicles, I'd encourage you to take a look at my thread on the Glenmora Planetary Militia.  I built tracked, hover and VTOL transported combined vehicle/infantry units, and it's easy enough to strip out the custom Goblin variants (though if you're not opposed to them, I think they work well).

'Mech-wise, I recommend keeping your lances as close as possible to the same movement profile among themselves.  You seem to really want an Ostscout and a Shadow Hawk, so they will be exceptions.

Based on what you said, I'd go for:
Scout Lance (6/9/6 minimum): P-Hawk (Davion variant), Firestarter (Mirage variant), Ostscout, Super Stinger (the 2 Medium Laser variant)

Cavalry Lance (5/8/3 minimum): Marik Wolverine (WVR-6M), Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Dervish

Heavy Lance (4/6/4): Grasshopper, Victor, Catapult, Thunderbolt (Eridani variant)

I've always had a rather overactive imagination, this just happens to be the biggest example to date of how big, wild and crazy I can get when an idea pops into my head. It really all depends on whether I run with the idea or not. Clearly I decided to run with this one.

That said the Shadow Hawk was really the only "must have" for the Mech company in my eyes. The Ostscout could probably be taken out, and instead a couple Boomerang Spotter planes could take over as high altitude recon and spotters for the Long Tom artillery in the Fortress dropship, freeing up a space for with a mech with more firepower, something like a Commando, another Super Stinger, or maybe even a knock-off of the Wolf's Dragoons Wasp. Six small lasers isn't anything to sneeze at.

I do like the look of that Cavalry lance you suggested. And the heavy lance seems like it'd be a real bruiser once they got into effective range of the Victor's AC20.

[Daryk]

Ideally, a Fire Javelin would replace the Ostscout, though I'm partial to the Dragoon Wasp too.  I once had a Griffin that replaced the LRM-10 with 10 Small Lasers...  >:D

[Alan Davion]

Ideally, a Fire Javelin would replace the Ostscout, though I'm partial to the Dragoon Wasp too.  I once had a Griffin that replaced the LRM-10 with 10 Small Lasers...  >:D

OMFG That would be hilarious to see in something like MWO, or the upcoming HBS BT or MW5:M if they allow that level of customization... Though I doubt they will.

[GrimNefari]

Using a combined arms approach to a mercenary force as you have suggested, and based on my own experience in all my gaming history(mostly playing in megamek against the bot or just myself even), the following is my suggestion.

Mech company: recon/light striker lance with a fast movement profile. I tend to go pre-Clans (start there anyway) so mechs with a 6/9/6 (jump jets are almost a nessecity I think) and a couple lasers. Maybe an SRM or machine guns to find those crits too.  Lance leader might be a fast medium, or a fast LRM mech for local fire support.

Strike/battle lance, typically hard hitting mediums and heavies. 5/8 is ideal for me but you're going to look at medium and large lasers, ac10 and 20. You want some range weapons but once you get in close you need to be able to punch thru the armor quickly. Also, and again some SRMs and or machine guns for those crits.   Some mechs seem to fall apart quickly (in my experience) but would recommend Phoenix Hawks and other mechs that despite actual numbers are just hard as hell to knock out without concentrated fire. Griffins are good if you can get variants other than the 1N (personal preference) or you can customize the base models.

Heavy and or command lance - your big bruisers and brawlers. Stalkers, battlemasters, victors, Orion's. Those are my faves usually because they can just rip stuff apart. There are others that are potentially just as good but like I said these are the ones I like.

For a reinforced mech company you could add a dedicated fire lance - LRM boats. Catapults, archers and longbows are excellent but you have to be careful that they are either supported for close in or can fire something other than just LRMS because their movement profile will make it hard to keep enemies at even minimum range if they are closing in on you.

For outside of mech formations I also go with an armor company - one lance of fast hovers for recon, a dedicated battle line (and right now I can't think of specific models) and then some sort of either close in or long range firesupport. Additionally, I throw in a lance of mobile long toms (21 years US Army as an artilleryman and I don't feel right without at least having the option) because who doesn't like the idea of four rounds of incoming smashsplat every turn (once you figure out how best to use it).

For infantry I go with a company of mechanized infantry - three squads of rifles or lasers and a squad of machine guns for two platoons, and a third platoon of straight SRMs and machine guns for additional local fire support. Each platoon is assigned to an APC - usually tracked. Lastly, a jump platoon with some karnovs so they can be dropped deep behind enemy lines and cause havoc.

Throw in some aerospace fighters for dropship escort and CAS (still have to figure that out in megamek tho), enough dropships and jump ships to move em all, techs to fix everything and admin people to handle the paperwork, and you should be good to go.

[Deadborder]

My first question is how big do you want the unit to be? That's going to inform a lot of your choices both in terms of numbers and composition. It would be best to nail that down first and then work on the individual 'Mech and vehicle choices.

[Alan Davion]

My first question is how big do you want the unit to be? That's going to inform a lot of your choices both in terms of numbers and composition. It would be best to nail that down first and then work on the individual 'Mech and vehicle choices.

Well I only wanted 1 mech company, since that will be the primary aspect of the RP profile. And that seems to have been handled pretty well by Daryk.

I already figured I'd probably need at least one, if not two battalions worth of vehicles, in order to handle infantry support, extra recon support, general combat duty, and general unit support.

Also have two companies worth of PBI on the Fortress and Seeker dropships that would also carry the two battalions of vehicles and the one mech company.

As far as Aerospace goes, that's where I find myself disappointed. Mostly in that there's really only one fighter carrier dropship that's timeline appropriate, that can enter atmosphere with the rest of the dropships, but it only carries 6 fighters.

I'm looking at you Leopard CV.  >:(

I tried searching Sarna but there's only two fighter carriers that are timeline appropriate. The Leopard CV and the Vengeance. Leopard carries too few, 6, and Vengeance carries way more than I need, 40, and can't enter atmosphere.

The Okinawa is perfect in that it carries only 18 fighters, three squadrons worth, and is a spheroid that can enter atmosphere and land, but it's outside my set timeline of 3005 to 3040, not being produced until 3055.

[Deadborder]

Thanks for that.

From what you've said, I'd say one 'Mech company, one armour battalion and some infantry support. A lot of it is down to what you want the primary focus of the unit to be; is it a 'Mech unit with armour support or an armour unit with 'Mech elements? Given that the leader's in the Shad, I'm going to assume the former.

So here's my own ideas based on your suggestions:

Recon Lance
PXH-1D Phoenix Hawk
FS9-H Firestarter
OTT-7J Ostscout
STG-3G Stinger

All of them move a minimum of 6/9/6, which gives them great mobility in all terrain types. They can use their jets to escape trouble or get away through broken or forest terrain. Nobody's going to be lagging behind either. Finally, the only ammo they use is the machine guns on the Firestarter, so simplified logistic chain.

Speaking of, I cannot emphasise how useful a Firestarter is in the Succession wars era. You can use it to scout, to roast infantry en masse, to create cover in the form of smoke and flames, to break up enemy formations, destroy enemy assets and overheat enemy 'Mechs. When everyone has only single heat sinks, eating a trio of three-point heat hits can ruin your day.

Medium Lance

SHD-2H Shadow Hawk
GRF-1N Griffin
WVN-6M Wolverine
DV-6M Dervish

All of them are jump-capable and all share more or less the same movement curve, which gives them a good deal of mobility. Plus the Dervish can rain fire with spotting from the Recon Lance or your infantry.

Heavy Lance

BLR-1G Battlemaster
TDR-5S Thunderbolt
ARC-2R Archer
MAD-3R Marauder

These are your big guns. Not much mobility but lots of armour and firepower. This is when you want to walk up to somebody and just punch them in the face and hard. It's also the one where you could have the most flexibility; you could substitute a Victor or even an Atlas into the lance there for an even bigger hit. The only one I would keep in any configuration is the Archer for the two LRM-20s and again the fire support they offer.

[GrimNefari]

Deadborder that's twice today that we seem to more or less be on the same page... getting kinda creepy mate :D

[Alan Davion]

Thanks for that.

From what you've said, I'd say one 'Mech company, one armour battalion and some infantry support. A lot of it is down to what you want the primary focus of the unit to be; is it a 'Mech unit with armour support or an armour unit with 'Mech elements? Given that the leader's in the Shad, I'm going to assume the former.

So here's my own ideas based on your suggestions:

Recon Lance
PXH-1D Phoenix Hawk
FS9-H Firestarter
OTT-7J Ostscout
STG-3G Stinger

All of them move a minimum of 6/9/6, which gives them great mobility in all terrain types. They can use their jets to escape trouble or get away through broken or forest terrain. Nobody's going to be lagging behind either. Finally, the only ammo they use is the machine guns on the Firestarter, so simplified logistic chain.

Speaking of, I cannot emphasize how useful a Firestarter is in the Succession wars era. You can use it to scout, to roast infantry en masse, to create cover in the form of smoke and flames, to break up enemy formations, destroy enemy assets and overheat enemy 'Mechs. When everyone has only single heat sinks, eating a trio of three-point heat hits can ruin your day.

You bring up an interesting point on the Firestarter, and an alternative over the FS9-M in Daryk's suggested scout lance. I think if I were to use this setup I'd probably drop the Ostscout, and bring in either another 2 medium laser Stinger or the 6 small laser knock off Wolf's Dragoons Wasp. That'd be a lot of lasers whittling down whatever the Firestarter is keeping busy not being able to control their heat.

Medium Lance

SHD-2H Shadow Hawk
GRF-1N Griffin
WVN-6M Wolverine
DV-6M Dervish

All of them are jump-capable and all share more or less the same movement curve, which gives them a good deal of mobility. Plus the Dervish can rain fire with spotting from the Recon Lance or your infantry.

Really can't go wrong with these four mechs now can you?  8)

Heavy Lance

BLR-1G Battlemaster
TDR-5S Thunderbolt
ARC-2R Archer
MAD-3R Marauder

These are your big guns. Not much mobility but lots of armour and firepower. This is when you want to walk up to somebody and just punch them in the face and hard. It's also the one where you could have the most flexibility; you could substitute a Victor or even an Atlas into the lance there for an even bigger hit. The only one I would keep in any configuration is the Archer for the two LRM-20s and again the fire support they offer.

Quite the departure from Daryk's proposed battle/heavy lance. But, three PPCs, four if you've got the medium lance adding their firepower, not to mention the LRMs from the SHD, GRF and DV added to those of the TDR and ARC... Yeesh, that's a nasty bit of missile spam. I like it.

Loses the devastating up close punch of that Victor's AC20 from Daryk's suggestion, but all those PPCs and missiles... Coupled with probably some LRM artillery tanks, you could absolutely shell the ever-loving-piss out of pretty much anything short of a full regiment.

[Alan Davion]

Alright I tried my hand at assembling the ground vehicle roster, though keep in mind it's rough as all hell so some suggestions on what to add or subtract would be appreciated.

General Support
Boomerang Spotter Plane x2
Swiftwind Scout Car x2
J-27 Ordinance Transport x4
Mobile HQ Truck x1
Coolant Trucks x4
Karnov UR Transport Plane x2
Engineering Vehicle x1
Planetlifter Transport Plane x2
Total: 18

Infantry Support
Wheeled APC x2
MASH Trucks x4
Packrat LRPV x2
Warrior H-7 Attack Helicopters x2
Scorpion Light Tank x2
Goblin Medium Tank x2
Maxim Heavy Hover Transport x1
Total: 16

Combat Unit
Vedette Medium Tank x2
Bulldog Medium Tank x2
Manticore Heavy Tank x4
Rommel Heavy Tank x2
Von Luckner Heavy Tank x2
Total: 12

AA Defense
Partisan Heavy Tank (AC2) x5
Partisan Heavy Tank (AC5) x5
Partisan Heavy Tank (LRM20) x5
Total: 15

Somehow through sheer, absolute, blind and dumb freaking luck when I totaled that all up I got 61 vehicles, which is the number of vehicles I'd be able to fit in the Fortress and Triumph dropships.

Actually I could fit 4 more vehicles upon further checking of the math... Can you tell I've always hated math?  ::)

While on the other hand if I took a Seeker dropship I could take another 19 vehicles for a total of 84.

I think what I've got here is a decent starting point. The only things I didn't add originally were artillery units such as LRM carriers and additional Long Toms. I figure I'd take 3 Long Tom batteries to join the one in the Fortress dropship, and probably at least 5 LRM carriers.

That brings us to 11 more spaces to add to the established units, along with whatever is added or subtracted as required.

[Daryk]

As our lighter lances are almost identical, the biggest difference is the mobility of the heavies.  Jump jets are the main advantage of 'mechs over vehicles, which is the primary reason I went for the Catapult over the Archer.  The other reason is that the Catapult has all four lasers facing forward, so it's more useful after it runs out of ammo.  All told, my lance can throw 45 LRMs (two 15s on the Catapult, one 10 on the Eridani Thunderbolt, and one 5 rack on the Grasshopper).  It's got no PPCs, but two Large Lasers to tide you over until you can close and bring the AC/20 and all those Medium Lasers to bear.  This lance would be the hammer against the anvil of your heavy armor company, driving the enemy with the fear of all that short range fire power.

Vehicle-wise, I recommend at least a couple of Demolishers for drop zone security, and a bit more in the way of infantry carriers.  Ferrets also make excellent medevac birds.

[Alan Davion]

As our lighter lances are almost identical, the biggest difference is the mobility of the heavies.  Jump jets are the main advantage of 'mechs over vehicles, which is the primary reason I went for the Catapult over the Archer.  The other reason is that the Catapult has all four lasers facing forward, so it's more useful after it runs out of ammo.  All told, my lance can throw 45 LRMs (two 15s on the Catapult, one 10 on the Eridani Thunderbolt, and one 5 rack on the Grasshopper).  It's got no PPCs, but two Large Lasers to tide you over until you can close and bring the AC/20 and all those Medium Lasers to bear.  This lance would be the hammer against the anvil of your heavy armor company, driving the enemy with the fear of all that short range fire power.

Vehicle-wise, I recommend at least a couple of Demolishers for drop zone security, and a bit more in the way of infantry carriers.  Ferrets also make excellent medevac birds.

Don't forget the 35 LRMs from the Command Lance between the Dervish, Griffin and Shadow Hawk, that totals up to 80 LRMs.

The other setup has the Archers two LRM20s, the Thunderbolts LRM15, plus the 35 from the Command lance totals up to 90 LRMs.

Neither are certainly nothing to sneeze at... But let's take a look at the other weapons just for fun.

Your setup with the GHR, VTR, CPT and TDR nets a total of 13 medium lasers, 45 LRMs, 4 SRMs, 2 large lasers and an AC20.

Deadborder's setup with the BLR, TDR, ARC and MAD nets a total of 3 PPCs, 1 large laser, 13-15 medium lasers depending on whether you count the rear facing lasers on the BLR... Or if you swap them forward like the MWO BLR... 55 LRMs, 8 SRMs, 4 machine guns and an AC5.

Including the Command lance with your setup Daryk would net a grand total of 17 medium lasers, 80 LRMs, 16 SRMs, 3 large lasers, an AC5 and an AC20.

Doing the same with Deadborders setup would net a grand total of 4 PPCs, 2 large lasers, 17-19 medium lasers, 90 LRMs, 20 SRMs, 4 machine guns, 2 AC5s.

I hope I've done the math right here.

I'm honestly not sure an extra 4 SRMs comes anywhere close to equaling the up close devastation of the VTRs AC20 in exchange for the longer range firepower of those PPCs.

That aside I've updated the vehicle roster.

Support Unit
Boomerang Spotter Plane x2
Swiftwind Scout Car x2
J-27 Ordinance Transport x4
Mobile HQ Truck x1
Coolant Trucks x4
Karnov UR Transport Plane x2
Engineering Vehicle x1
Planetlifter Transport Plane x2
Total: 18

Infantry Unit
Wheeled APC x3
MASH Trucks x4
Packrat LRPV x3
Warrior H-7 Attack Helicopters x2
Scorpion Light Tank x2
Goblin Medium Tank x2
Maxim Heavy Hover Transport x2
Ferret Light Scout VTOL x2
Galleon Light Tanks x4
Total: 24

Combat Unit
Vedette Medium Tank x3
Bulldog Medium Tank x3
Manticore Heavy Tank x3
Rommel Heavy Tank x3
Von Luckner Heavy Tank x3
Schrek PPC Carrier x1
Ontos Heavy Tank x1
Total: 17

Dropzone Defense Unit
Partisan Heavy Tank (AC2) x4
Partisan Heavy Tank (AC5) x4
Partisan Heavy Tank (LRM20) x4
LRM Carrier x4
Long Tom Mobile Artillery x3
Demolisher Heavy Tank x2
Striker Light Tank x4
Total: 25

A grand total of 84 vehicles between the Seeker and Fortress dropships. Granted I've only put the overall list together, I'd be stumped trying to organize them into actual lances/companies... At least the Infantry and Combat units, seeing as the Support and Dropzone units would very likely remain around the dropzone, therefore not needing to organize into lances/companies, with the possible exception of the Mobile HQ truck, J-27s and Coolant transports during combat operations, staying about halfway between the mech unit and the dropzone.

The Boomerangs and Swiftwinds would of course supplement the recon mech lance.

[Dave Talley]

from Sarna
"The number of variants of the Overlord class are too numerous to list. While they were customized extensively prior to the fall of the original Star League, the modifications to remaining units was an obvious necessity, primarily due to the loss of damaged equipment and the inability to repair and replace the same. However, mission-specific modifications are still common. Most notable as an example is the Running Fox, House Davion's flagship, modified to be more luxurious and act as a command post, for when the First Prince is on campaign.[6]
Two other common modifications can sometimes be seen within the Inner Sphere: the first, often referred to as the Overlord-Two, reduces the 'Mech component by 12 and brings in a company of vehicles. The Command-Overlord subtracts only four 'Mechs and adds in the equivalent tonnage for command and control facilities (including added berthing).[7]"


a converted overlord could be used instead of the much rarer fortress and it allows 6 fighters, also you could strip out the second company for more infantry and a few APCs

you can also go with a 4th lance, dedicated scouts carried on the Seeker

[Alan Davion]

from Sarna
"The number of variants of the Overlord class are too numerous to list. While they were customized extensively prior to the fall of the original Star League, the modifications to remaining units was an obvious necessity, primarily due to the loss of damaged equipment and the inability to repair and replace the same. However, mission-specific modifications are still common. Most notable as an example is the Running Fox, House Davion's flagship, modified to be more luxurious and act as a command post, for when the First Prince is on campaign.[6]
Two other common modifications can sometimes be seen within the Inner Sphere: the first, often referred to as the Overlord-Two, reduces the 'Mech component by 12 and brings in a company of vehicles. The Command-Overlord subtracts only four 'Mechs and adds in the equivalent tonnage for command and control facilities (including added berthing).[7]"


a converted overlord could be used instead of the much rarer fortress and it allows 6 fighters, also you could strip out the second company for more infantry and a few APCs

you can also go with a 4th lance, dedicated scouts carried on the Seeker

It never even occurred to me to think of the Overlord. How silly of me. An Overlord, paired with a Leo CV would give me a total of 12 AS fighters instead of just the 6 on the Leo CV.

And seeing as I'm only bringing one Mech company, using an Overlord 2, the area for the second mech company could be used for additional cargo storage. Ammo, food, water, maybe spare parts and weapons for the mechs, vehicles and fighters.

The question now is, do I think the trade off is worth it? Giving up the Fortress' heavier weapons load, for the Overlord's ability to carry fighters and more cargo.

I suppose if I were to drop one of the tanks, a Von Luckner for instance, I could bring a fourth Long Tom to make up for the absence of the one the Fortress carries.

But here's an interesting conundrum... Do people the treat the Long Tom as 1 vehicle, or the 5 it's described as in the 3025 TRO fluff? If you have to count all 5 of the LT vehicles, that's one hell of a monkey wrench in my calculations... 20 vehicles instead of just 4.

I would imagine most people would classify the LT as just 1 vehicle, but there might be someone out there crazy enough to classify it as 5.

[Dave Talley]

as I see it
storage, one heavy vehicle bay, its stil only 100 tons right?
and speaking of arty, try thumpers
using the generic carrier chassis, you can do 2 per vehicle and still have 4 tons ammo

loading/unloading time as if 5 vehicles
takes a while for each to drive out and connect and prepare

(LTs and Fortesses are very rare apparently)
now assuming you have time money and crew, you could go apeshit converting the Overlord
remove the 2-AC20s in the nose and 2 AC5s, build a arty platform for 2 Thumpers,
only usable when grounded of course
or to be a real nasty, take the 2-ac20s, and 2 Ac5s and use 2 LT Cannons, modified for space flight, thats a hell of a AAA platform there :-)

[Alan Davion]

as I see it
storage, one heavy vehicle bay, its stil only 100 tons right?
and speaking of arty, try thumpers
using the generic carrier chassis, you can do 2 per vehicle and still have 4 tons ammo

loading/unloading time as if 5 vehicles
takes a while for each to drive out and connect and prepare

(LTs and Fortesses are very rare apparently)
now assuming you have time money and crew, you could go apeshit converting the Overlord
remove the 2-AC20s in the nose and 2 AC5s, build a arty platform for 2 Thumpers,
only usable when grounded of course
or to be a real nasty, take the 2-ac20s, and 2 Ac5s and use 2 LT Cannons, modified for space flight, thats a hell of a AAA platform there :-)

Actually according to the 3025 TRO the MLT weighs in at 65 tons, and if that's the total weight, then each of the 5 individual vehicles actually only weighs 13 tons.

Actually I think I'll drop the MLT artillery, as I don't think they fit well with the sort of Bllitz or Cavalry duty I imagine the unit would perform.

Artillery seems to be something that would be more important for planets that have full time garrisons cause they're high value targets, places like Galtor 3 along the Davion/Draconis border or Tamar and Port Moseby along the Lyran/Draconis border.

So here's the final vehicle roster.

Support Unit
Boomerang Spotter Plane x2
Swiftwind Scout Car x2
J-27 Ordinance Transport x4
Mobile HQ Truck x1
Coolant Trucks x4
Karnov UR Transport Plane x2
Engineering Vehicle x1
Planetlifter Transport Plane x2
Total: 18

Infantry Unit
Wheeled APC x4
MASH Trucks x4
Packrat LRPV x2
Warrior H-7 Attack Helicopters x2
Scorpion Light Tank x2
Goblin Medium Tank x2
Maxim Heavy Hover Transport x2
Ferret Light Scout VTOL x2
Galleon Light Tanks x4
Total: 24

Combat Unit
Vedette Medium Tank x2
Bulldog Medium Tank x4
Manticore Heavy Tank x4
Rommel Heavy Tank x4
Von Luckner Heavy Tank x3
Schrek PPC Carrier x2
Ontos Heavy Tank x1
Total: 20

Dropzone Defense Unit
Partisan Heavy Tank (AC2) x4
Partisan Heavy Tank (AC5) x4
Partisan Heavy Tank (LRM20) x4
LRM Carrier x4
Demolisher Heavy Tank x2
Striker Light Tank x4
Total: 22

Finally, as far as Aerospace elements go, I'm thinking 2 HCT-213 Hellcats, 2 EGL-R6 Eagles, 2 CSR-V12 Corsairs, 2 LCF-R15 Lucifers, 2 CHP-W5 Chippewas and 2 STU-K5 Stukas.

I'm thinking the Hellcats, Eagles and Corsair's, all of which have a 6/9 movement, would be stationed on the Leopard CV, and the Lucifers, Chippewas and Stukas, all of which have a 5/8 movement, on the Overlord.

All that's left is the infantry, which isn't too hard. One rifle platoon, one laser rifle platoon, one SRM platoon, all of which would have a few men running support weapons like machine guns, and probably one commando platoon who'd be running a lighter weapons load of auto-pistols, needlers or laser pistols for sidearms, and submachine guns as their main weapons.

[Iron Grenadier]

I could be wrong, but I believe concerning fluff, you have enough coolant trucks for two battlemech battalions - I believe the fluff standard is a total of six coolant trucks per regiment, with two per battalion. My suggestion would be to replace at least two with some battlemech recovery vehicles.

Likewise I might drop two of the MASH vehicles for a couple more Packrat's.

[Alan Davion]

I could be wrong, but I believe concerning fluff, you have enough coolant trucks for two battlemech battalions - I believe the fluff standard is a total of six coolant trucks per regiment, with two per battalion. My suggestion would be to replace at least two with some battlemech recovery vehicles.

Likewise I might drop two of the MASH vehicles for a couple more Packrat's.

Actually I have just enough for the one Company.

From Sarna: The Lifesaver has five receptacles for the long rubber/plastic hoses used for attachment to overheating 'Mechs, the first four dispense liquid nitrogen while the fifth contains liquid oxygen. Light and Medium Mechs have hookup points for just one hose, but Heavy and Assault 'Mechs require two for cooling.

One truck for the Light/Recon lance, one for the Medium/Command lance, and two for the Heavy/Assault/Combat lance.

I figured the one Engineering Vehicle would handle recovery/salvage ops, but perhaps you're right in that I need a few dedicated recovery vehicles.

EDIT: So dipping into Sarna, I figure I'd probably need at least 2 BRVs (Battlemech Recovery Vehicle), a couple JI-50s and JI-100 repair units, maybe a couple O-66 HMRVs, and maybe a couple Prometheus CSBs... So that's a minimum of 6 more vehicles, up to a maximum of 10 or 12.

Seeing as I dropped the MLTs, I could do without quite as many Base defense units, by dropping 2 of each of the Partisan tank variants, freeing up 6 slots for the recovery and repair vehicles.

[Iron Grenadier]

Regarding the coolant truck, the original 3025 TRO has 6 coolant trucks per regiment. It's also re-printed in Sarna.

Standard Great House combat doctrine is for well-maintained regiment to have about six trucks, ensuring that an overheating 'Mech will almost always have access to a ready cooler

If you are looking for a combat engineer and salvage vehicle, try the Buffel -
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/B%C3%BCffel_VII

[Alan Davion]

Regarding the coolant truck, the original 3025 TRO has 6 coolant trucks per regiment. It's also re-printed in Sarna.

If you are looking for a combat engineer and salvage vehicle, try the Buffel -
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/B%C3%BCffel_VII

Hmm, I suppose you're right. Perhaps I was being overly generous. I'll drop a couple coolant trucks and add in a couple of those Buffalo's.

[Dave Talley]

it appears this is a great garrison unit
great in defense, can airdrop units and supplies all over
good PR via free clinics at the MASH
could also be useful as a construction/emergency aid unit

[Iron Grenadier]

it appears this is a great garrison unit
great in defense, can airdrop units and supplies all over
good PR via free clinics at the MASH
could also be useful as a construction/emergency aid unit

I was thinking with everything he has, the backstory to this unit might be the remnants of a larger shattered command - one that lost a lot of its battlemechs but still has strong supporting assets. These ideas as a garrison unit is pretty good as they rebuild.


Hey Alan Davion one other thing I just noticed - if you are starting in 3005, that's before the Rommel tank was built. More Von Luckners, Manticores or maybe a Demolisher or two to replace them? Don't think you can really go wrong with any of those.

[Alan Davion]

it appears this is a great garrison unit
great in defense, can airdrop units and supplies all over
good PR via free clinics at the MASH
could also be useful as a construction/emergency aid unit

I was thinking with everything he has, the backstory to this unit might be the remnants of a larger shattered command - one that lost a lot of its battlemechs but still has strong supporting assets. These ideas as a garrison unit is pretty good as they rebuild.


Hey Alan Davion one other thing I just noticed - if you are starting in 3005, that's before the Rommel tank was built. More Von Luckners, Manticores or maybe a Demolisher or two to replace them? Don't think you can really go wrong with any of those.

The now mercenary unit being the remains of a larger house unit had been my thought as well, garrisoned on some world along either the Davion/Kurita/Capellan borders, or the Steiner/Kurita Border sometime during the last twenty years of the 3rd Succession War. Probably the remains of an AFFS RCT, smashed against the Kuritans to the point of something like 90% losses.

12 mechs down from 108-180, 84 vehicles down from 324-540, 144 infantry down from something like 900 to 3000 or 1500 to 5000, and 12 Aerospace fighters down from about 40-60 fighters.

That's a lot of lost people and equipment.

I hadn't yet decided exactly what year I'd start them out in, just a general range from 3005 to 3040.

[Iron Grenadier]

Sounds good. Given your ideas on paint scheme of gold/red trim on black, perhaps a former Robinson Chevaliers unit? Might be something of a stretch to have them lasting until 3005 but still doable.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Robinson_Chevaliers

Skye Rangers might be another option - but I think they might reverse the colors using red with black highlights.

[Alan Davion]

Sounds good. Given your ideas on paint scheme of gold/red trim on black, perhaps a former Robinson Chevaliers unit? Might be something of a stretch to have them lasting until 3005 but still doable.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Robinson_Chevaliers

Skye Rangers might be another option - but I think they might reverse the colors using red with black highlights.

Hmm, checking on Camo Specs, only units I could find that really come close are the 1st Kathil Uhlans, 1st Kestrel Grenadiers, 3rd FedCom RCT or the Tikinov Republican Guards.

The Robinson or Skye units on Camo specs really didn't seem to fit my idea.

It's times like this I wish I had access to everything in MWO as far as camo patterns and colors. For some reason I really think the camo that came with the Phoenix Mechs would work very well.



Just more black overall, with the red and gold in different spots. Something like gold on the knee stripes, the rings around the forearms and on the head, and then red on the hips and chest for example.

[Iron Grenadier]

Pretty sure the Robinson Chevaliers aren't on Camo Specs. They are a relatively new unit in the grand scheme of things, but don't currently exist as an active command within the Federated Suns. Not sure if there would be a picture of them or not in Field Report 2765: AFFS as I don't have that to check. Just going off their description from Sarna.

[DOC_Agren]

Interesting unit
I like the heavy areospace assets, but you have nothing to catch up to speedy units, maybe swap in 2 Sabres for speed and or recon use

Also are you limited to just canon designs?

[Alan Davion]

Interesting unit
I like the heavy areospace assets, but you have nothing to catch up to speedy units, maybe swap in 2 Sabres for speed and or recon use

Also are you limited to just canon designs?

I hadn't considered the Sabre as far as recon goes as I had the Boomerang spotters, and they can out run all but the Light class Aerospace fighters.

But I do suppose that, due to the Boomers being unarmed, a couple light AS fighters would make sense for cover.

A couple Seydiltz's, probably the Z2 armed with 5 medium lasers, or a couple Sparrowhawks might work.

That said, generally speaking, while I prefer canon designs/units, I'm not "strictly" against non-canon designs/units. They just have a harder time catching my interest.

EDIT: Hmm, on second thought, forget the Seydiltz, a little too lightly armored for my taste. Looks like the SPR-H5 Sparrowhawk wins the billet.

A little slower than the Sabre, but better armored.

So I've dropped the LCF-R15 Lucifers in favor of the Sparrowhawks.