Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype

[Deadborder]

My issue with Traviss is down to her as a writer and has nothing to do with her temper tantrums and inability to respond to criticisim.

She has a consistent running theme in her books that all Force users, be they Jedi, Sith or whatever else are inherently bad and dangerous and untrustworthy. This is something that is constantly hammered on the reader with characters taking whatever opportunities they can to parrot these opinions. In a couple of cases where there have been former Jedi in her novels, they have to talk about how horrible it was to be a Jedi and how they're so much massively better off now that they're doing something else.

At the same time, the Mandalorians are constantly being held up as not only the best at everything in the universe, but also morally superior to everyone else. Despite the fact that they're an aggressive mercenary culture with a history full of things like planetary bombardments and attempted genocides, Traviss has to point out how much better they are and how they allways hold the moral high ground because of who they are. Her Mandalorians are vomitously pure paragons of good that are held up as a standard that everyone else should aspire to. And even if it's not stated outright in text, it's a clear message that she's trying to get across.

Added to this, as said, she felt the need to constantly harp on about how the Mandalorians are better then everyone because they are. Thier armour is the best armour in the universe. They can defeat anyone else in a fight. They have the best spaceships. Their society is entirely without flaws or blemishes and everyone is allways equal and everything else. And all this is often done when it has no relevance to the plot. Her trio of Legacy of the Force novels were mostly full of Boba Fett extolling the virtues of all things Mandalorian while the actual plot elements ("Some Jedi called Maria Jade or something is killed. Who cares, she's jsut a Jedi") are afterthoughts.

Another good example would be in the penultimate book of the aforesaid series. Boba Fett's training of Jaina Solo consisted of him verbally abusing her at every step and denegrating everything she had ever done in her life. And then, because Travis was writing said book, Jaina agreed at every step.

That Travis turned out to also be batcrap insane wasn't what makes her an awful writer. It's just the icing on the cake.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Sounds like she didnt want to write Star Wars, so tried to change it into something she liked better.

[glitterboy2098]

http://hellogiggles.com/princess-leia-rogue-one

why that ending was the way it was.. and a video of an interview that has a ton of info on why rebels is the way it is

[Kidd]

If you disagree strongly with Traviss's views, it helps to read the characters as unreliable narrators. I never bought into the "Jedi are evil baby-kidnapping property-destroying slave-warrior-exploiting religious fundies" schtick. That's sold by the book characters but look who's talking; a bunch of rogue wet-ops ex-mercenary Chaotic/Evil Neutral Jedi-hating Mandalorians, and the Jedi who've fallen in blind love with them  ::)

But the books are well-written, sell the idea well, a few of the characters are rather likeable rogues, and reading a one-dimensional view of the conflict would be boring <- that applies to other books I like too, such as Yoda: Dark Rendezvous.

[MadCapellan]

That's exactly how I read them. Of course a bunch of mercs & bounty hunters are going to have their own interpretation of how Jedi are - they're living diametrically opposed lifestyles!

[Daemion]

The problem with the entire ****** Yuuzhan Vong ark is that it says Sheev Palpatine was a good guy for starting several intergalactic wars, embracing the Dark Side, destroying a religion, and committing multiple genocides because it was the only way to protect his galaxy against this invasion that only he saw coming. It means he wasn't selfish, he was selfless, sacrificing his honor and his life for a higher cause.

Umm, you forget one of the big aspects of a sociopath is the self-centered nature of what they do. Did you ever consider that Palpatine looked at the Galaxy as his? If it's his possession, do you think he'd really want to share? No. He was prepping his possession so that he could keep it from all other comers! And, then, once his possession was secure, he could start taking more. I don't doubt he was thinking of living forever and being the ultimate ruler of all creation.

He was just thinking on a much bigger picture, thanks to the force, than anyone else. For a lot of the people working with him, it was a matter of nobody else had anything better to offer.

[Scotty]

I don't understand why you're trying to justify a shitty fan-theory that was rightfully shot down in character even before the whole thing was declared utterly irrelevant.

[Daemion]

I don't understand why you're trying to justify a shitty fan-theory that was rightfully shot down in character even before the whole thing was declared utterly irrelevant.

I assume you're addressing me. Regardless of the fan-theory's current merit with official Star Wars-dom, I wanted to point out a flaw in the person's view regarding the theory. Paladins don't necessarily have to be nice in order to be Lawful-good. That's what people seem to be focusing on regarding a character who is very much Lawful-evil. A Lawful-evil character can do things that may appear good at times simply because it furthers their own ends.

The fan theory that Palpatine might be good is, in my opinion, erroneous, and I wanted to point out an alternative, especially for those who like the EU including the Vong Invasion. That he was preparing for an intergalactic war by intragalactic conquest doesn't have to be for altruistic reasons.

Now, that aside, it's too bad we don't see more of who owns the fighters the Rebellion uses in the official material. In the Legends X-Wing series, Corran Horn brought his from Corellian Security, which would suggest that organizations and planets have discretion on what they want to use. It's kinda sad that we're shoe-horned into only certain fighters common across the galaxy, because I imagine that each major system would potentially have its own designs it uses apart from the Empirial or Rebel TO&E.

[guardiandashi]

A big part of it is that it seems like there are at least in star wars only a limited number of authorized and or viable designers for some reason.
Everyone seems to use parts and materials from the "big name" manufacturers.
Solinar fleet systems (sp) Kuat drive yards, Incom, Kinslayer, and CEC (Corellian Engineering Corporation)
Etc.
If they aren't production models by one of these companies, or a 'licensed' variant then they are defined as an Ugly IE a more or less one off patched togather unit.

When you get away from fighters into arguably civilian designs there are abruptly a LOT more companies making stuff like freighters.

[glitterboy2098]

you mean like how most of the world uses aircraft from Boeing, Lockheed, Sukhoi, Mikoyan-Gurevich, Antonov, and Airbus, with a few smaller companies like SAAB and Kamov showing up more commonly as well? and most of the rest being tiny corporations teamed up with the bigger ones?

 8)

presumably, much like real life, not every place has their own spaceship industry. and that the bigger and older companies have absorbed most of the smaller regional manufacturers in the places that do. and that the big manufacturers lobby heavily for their products to be adopted by worlds needing spacecraft. and that worlds without a spaceship industry are going to be reluctant to invest into building a whole new infrastructure to make their own when it is cheaper to just go out and purchase a couple wings of an existing design.

i suspect that prior to the Clone Wars there was more diversity in the Republic than after. the war involved specific manufacturers getting huge contracts for warships, fighters, etc. which would have given them not only the funds needed to buy out smaller competitors, but also a need for additional manufacturing sites and workforce.. which absorbing from other companies via merger is cheaper and faster to do than building them from scratch. and then after the war, there are so many surplus ships on offer (even with the Empire's effort to scrap most of them first) that there would likely be less incentive to develop a native production. especially since the Empire likely would see efforts to build native spaceship industries on some worlds as a threat to itself.

[garhkal]

OK Getting off the Traviss bashing and back to the movies for a mo..

LETS say they just HAVE to do some superweapon or other for Ep 8 and 9..  (or just 9, keeping with the one SW in the first and last part of a trilogy)..
BUT THEY STAY away from re-hashing the death star in ANY itteration..

What are some of the NUMEROUS super-weapon (or like) stuff from SW lore (legends included) that you wouldn't mind seeing put to the big screen??

For me, there are 3.
Those Grav-shock bombs that were mentioned in the Imp Source book.  Would love to see them quaking away an enemy base..
World devastators.  Eat the enemy's base p and build a new army at the same time!!  WOOHOO..
Orbital Night Cloak.  FREEZE THEM!!!

[Kidd]

Everyone seems to use parts and materials from the "big name" manufacturers.
Solinar fleet systems (sp) Kuat drive yards, Incom, Kinslayer, and CEC (Corellian Engineering Corporation)
Etc.
(snip)
When you get away from fighters into arguably civilian designs there are abruptly a LOT more companies making stuff like freighters.

wasn't Incom primarily a civilian manufacturer of things like the Skyhopper?

Naturally the main contractors for the Republic (Kuat) and after that the Empire (Seinar) would be over-represented, having millions more production than other manufacturers and massive, literally Galactic-scale exclusive contracts. But every alien race/planetary faction does have at least one, sometimes two indigenous manufacturers IINM, like SoroSuub (Sullust), Colicoid Creation Nest (Colicoids) etc.

[glitterboy2098]

OK Getting off the Traviss bashing and back to the movies for a mo..

LETS say they just HAVE to do some superweapon or other for Ep 8 and 9..  (or just 9, keeping with the one SW in the first and last part of a trilogy)..
BUT THEY STAY away from re-hashing the death star in ANY itteration..

What are some of the NUMEROUS super-weapon (or like) stuff from SW lore (legends included) that you wouldn't mind seeing put to the big screen??

For me, there are 3.
Those Grav-shock bombs that were mentioned in the Imp Source book.  Would love to see them quaking away an enemy base..
World devastators.  Eat the enemy's base p and build a new army at the same time!!  WOOHOO..
Orbital Night Cloak.  FREEZE THEM!!!

starkiller base was basically a deathstar crossed with a Galaxy Gun. and to be honest, given the wide variety of superweapons seen in legends, i'm not sure you can come up with a new one that hasn't been done before.

personally i'd like to see less emphasis on superweapons in the next 2 films. instead, i want to see the First order start its full blown war to (re)conquer the galaxy in the Empire's name. with The Resistance trying to slow it down while organizing the remains of the New Republic. With the final film having a massive decapitation strike by the cobbled together Resistance/New Republic fleet meant to bring down the First Order command structure and Snoke.

if we have to see 'superweapons', i want smaller ones, and both sides making use of some. First order superstar destroyers with world cracking superlasers (similar to the Conquerer or Eclipse of Legends). the new Republic deploying Empion mines/warheads. etc. the kind of things you can put into a battle or scene to add dramatic aspects (like the Ion torpedo scene in Rogue One) without having to devote a whole movie to them.

[Stormlion1]

I have a feeling that the next movie will steal a bit from the old novels. The Katana Fleet primarily. I think what we will see is something we haven't really seen in the old movies. Big Capships duking it out and those ships just might be a old fleet of Star Destroyers and the listed as missing Eclipse which is apparently a Executor now rather than its own class.

[HobbesHurlbut]

OK Getting off the Traviss bashing and back to the movies for a mo..

LETS say they just HAVE to do some superweapon or other for Ep 8 and 9..  (or just 9, keeping with the one SW in the first and last part of a trilogy)..
BUT THEY STAY away from re-hashing the death star in ANY itteration..

What are some of the NUMEROUS super-weapon (or like) stuff from SW lore (legends included) that you wouldn't mind seeing put to the big screen??

For me, there are 3.
Those Grav-shock bombs that were mentioned in the Imp Source book.  Would love to see them quaking away an enemy base..
World devastators.  Eat the enemy's base p and build a new army at the same time!!  WOOHOO..
Orbital Night Cloak.  FREEZE THEM!!!

Going off the project list we saw in Rogue One? I thought that was a hint of superweapons we might see in 8 and 9.

[Charlie 6]

http://hellogiggles.com/princess-leia-rogue-one

why that ending was the way it was.. and a video of an interview that has a ton of info on why rebels is the way it is

Including how to pronounce Tantive.  You're the third person to link to that video in the last two threads.  Oddly no one has commented on it.  Very informative.

[garhkal]

Going off the project list we saw in Rogue One? I thought that was a hint of superweapons we might see in 8 and 9.

That is why i was mentioning this.  We have quite a laundry list of project names she read off before they got to the death star.  So were any of those the other super weapns??

[Lazarus Jaguar]

I'm sure the Empire did other things than just build superweapons

[Jaim Magnus]

Well, yeah. They also built fleets and trained troopers to oppress the masses.

[Daemion]

I have a feeling that the next movie will steal a bit from the old novels. The Katana Fleet primarily. I think what we will see is something we haven't really seen in the old movies. Big Capships duking it out and those ships just might be a old fleet of Star Destroyers and the listed as missing Eclipse which is apparently a Executor now rather than its own class.

This has been my thought from the beginning of the whole new line of movies. We don't need super weapons. Every fleet action we've seen has been squadron sized or smaller. I would love to see hundreds of ships to a side as the next level of warfare. The galaxy's big enough that all sides should be able to muster a fleet on the scale of some of the Dominion War battles on Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

[HobbesHurlbut]

This has been my thought from the beginning of the whole new line of movies. We don't need super weapons. Every fleet action we've seen has been squadron sized or smaller. I would love to see hundreds of ships to a side as the next level of warfare. The galaxy's big enough that all sides should be able to muster a fleet on the scale of some of the Dominion War battles on Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

You mean...have more of the action in Return of the Jedi?

[Kidd]

You mean...have more of the action in Return of the Jedi? ROGUE ONE

God yes.
As someone said the other day, we still haven't seen an Imp SD's turret guns firing on the silver screen. Or a Base Delta Zero.

[Fat Guy]

Actually watch right before the ISDs collide. The main turrets of the functional one are firing.

[garhkal]

This has been my thought from the beginning of the whole new line of movies. We don't need super weapons. Every fleet action we've seen has been squadron sized or smaller. I would love to see hundreds of ships to a side as the next level of warfare. The galaxy's big enough that all sides should be able to muster a fleet on the scale of some of the Dominion War battles on Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

That's one of the few things i MUCH preferred Star trek for over Star wars.  That they actually DID have big ship on ship battles en-mass on many occasions.  Even in RotJ we didn't really SEE much of anything from the big ships..  More like they were back drops to the fighter on fighter action, while the Death Star blew up a #

[glitterboy2098]

Revenge of the with had massive naval action at the start. We just didn't get to see the opening engagement before the fighting turned into a intermixed close range broadside brawl

[Stormlion1]

Star Wars had always taken a lot from World War 2 reels with the big ships acting as background. That's why the Big Ships get so little real screen time fighting. But just once I want to see a Super Star Destroyer and its fleet of escorting Star Destroyers raining down Turbolaser fire on a Rebel fleet that is responding in kind.

[garhkal]

Revenge of the with had massive naval action at the start. We just didn't get to see the opening engagement before the fighting turned into a intermixed close range broadside brawl

Which is why i don't Count that as a on screen engagement, it was only in the novel..

Star Wars had always taken a lot from World War 2 reels with the big ships acting as background. That's why the Big Ships get so little real screen time fighting. But just once I want to see a Super Star Destroyer and its fleet of escorting Star Destroyers raining down Turbolaser fire on a Rebel fleet that is responding in kind.

Heck, even if its only 3 on each side, i would LOVE to see the big ships going at it, full bore..  Not just the Piddly little fire we saw from the ISD in ANH's opening scene.

[Skyth]

You could always watch the TIE fighter short on youtube.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Just a thought: if Maul surviving is canon, then Obi-wan has never killed a Sith.  In fact, the only one in any movie who has killed ahy Sith Lords is...Anakin

[iamfanboy]

Just a thought: if Maul surviving is canon, the Obi-wan has never iilled a Sith.  In fact, the only one in any movie who has killed ahy Sith Lords is...Anakin

He's 2/2 on Sith Lords, in fact! In fact, he might even be 3/3 if you count absorbing all that force lightning as suicide!

This is genius. Though Darth Maul is not dead... yet, and we do see Obi-Wan Kenobi for a brief moment in the Rebels season 3 midseason preview.