Author Topic: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle  (Read 225887 times)

pheonixstorm

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #720 on: 12 May 2017, 01:01:33 »
It's very early in development, that is kicking around ideas with authors that are rearing to go. That said, whatever we see for the Third Succession War, we won't see ERs, FMs, or a historical on the entire war. It just doesn't fit any of those molds. That said, the Third War is a fantastic mix of wide open with interesting tidbits that could be explored. But, too early to talk about even the possibility of products. Just saying that the possibility is there and being explored.

I think a 3SW would be nice. While a lot has been written about since the game started there has also been A LOT of new material, retcons, etc. over the 3SW period. Much of which is jumbled over a dozen books. Getting a clean updated look at the 3SW to go with what we have for the 1st and 2nd would make things a lot better.

Follow on that with a cleaned up 4th SW series (based on the older Atlas etc) and the only new material being an update for use with AS, BF2, ACS, and ISW. We have most of the material already for 3SW and a cleaned up 4SW so it should be enough to keep development costs down, especially for a 4SW product.

Yes I know the 4SW was covered in deep detail, but as you tweak the histories sometimes you just have to drag something back into the light and polish it up a little. As is I doubt the old PDFs for the Atlas and other 4SW books can even be searched unlike the modern PDFs released now.

BrokenMnemonic

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #721 on: 12 May 2017, 11:37:13 »
Yes I know the 4SW was covered in deep detail, but as you tweak the histories sometimes you just have to drag something back into the light and polish it up a little. As is I doubt the old PDFs for the Atlas and other 4SW books can even be searched unlike the modern PDFs released now.
The second volume definitely can be, because that's what I was doing this morning.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

CungrVanck

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #722 on: 12 May 2017, 12:20:57 »
And now, back to the Second War I go!

Indeed.  Bring us the glow in the dark, stompy robot goodness of the Second War!

Gaiiten

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #723 on: 12 May 2017, 12:38:25 »
None.

Paul

What do you mean with "None"? That nobody of the Technican and Scientist caste were loyal during the years of the WoR?
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wantec

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #724 on: 12 May 2017, 13:02:40 »
What do you mean with "None"? That nobody of the Technican and Scientist caste were loyal during the years of the WoR?
What he means is that of the loyal non-warrior castes, None of them created any new designs, weapons, variants, etc. that weren't seen in WoR or in any other published product.
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Phalanx

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #725 on: 12 May 2017, 13:26:29 »
I think a 3SW would be nice. While a lot has been written about since the game started there has also been A LOT of new material, retcons, etc. over the 3SW period. Much of which is jumbled over a dozen books. Getting a clean updated look at the 3SW to go with what we have for the 1st and 2nd would make things a lot better.

Follow on that with a cleaned up 4th SW series (based on the older Atlas etc) and the only new material being an update for use with AS, BF2, ACS, and ISW. We have most of the material already for 3SW and a cleaned up 4SW so it should be enough to keep development costs down, especially for a 4SW product.

Yes I know the 4SW was covered in deep detail, but as you tweak the histories sometimes you just have to drag something back into the light and polish it up a little. As is I doubt the old PDFs for the Atlas and other 4SW books can even be searched unlike the modern PDFs released now.

One thing I think that would be MUCH easier than releasing new books that refer to old content, is to just release edited versions of the old Sourcebooks(no reason to reinvent the wheel).

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Paul

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #726 on: 12 May 2017, 14:35:42 »
What he means is that of the loyal non-warrior castes, None of them created any new designs, weapons, variants, etc. that weren't seen in WoR or in any other published product.

Exactly.

There were Warrior-Caste-loyal scientists, and not an irrelevant amount of them. Many were purged by the Warriors anyway, but even if they hadn't, they still wouldn't have been much help with coming up with new Tech. The Warriors had been morphing the Scientist Caste in to a geneticist Caste for more than a century at that point. And unlike the movies and most RPGs, "science" isn't a catchall skill that makes you good at *everything*. Biochemists aren't going to know anything about material science, energy or weaponry. They may be able to absorb existing materials, but that's a far cry from being able to innovate. That might be in reach for a handful of cutting-edge individuals, who are rare.
And must be found within the relatively small pool that is the Scientist Caste. A Caste which includes numerous individuals who are barely better than lab assistants and school teachers. Not fertile ground to find the creator of the next ER-Pulse-PPC-ATM.

Now, given enough time, perhaps something would've surfaced, but the WOR was relatively brief. And the Society portion of it was less still.

Paul
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #727 on: 12 May 2017, 19:06:54 »
What do you mean with "None"? That nobody of the Technican and Scientist caste were loyal during the years of the WoR?
You're forgetting TRO 3067 and 3075, and everything new that turned up there.  Remember when the Reavings take place.
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abou

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #728 on: 12 May 2017, 19:16:05 »
Can I just say that I hope they don't do a 3rd SW book?

Think about it: the 3rd war was the original setting of the game and left open for players to explore. Some HTP products or similar would be great and more than welcome for pivotal, big battles that have been referenced in the fiction previously. Otherwise, I want it to stay open as much as possible.

Empyrus

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #729 on: 12 May 2017, 20:02:52 »
You can always ignore released material for your own games. Me, i'd prefer to have some data i can build upon.

YingJanshi

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #730 on: 12 May 2017, 20:17:53 »
Can I just say that I hope they don't do a 3rd SW book?

Think about it: the 3rd war was the original setting of the game and left open for players to explore. Some HTP products or similar would be great and more than welcome for pivotal, big battles that have been referenced in the fiction previously. Otherwise, I want it to stay open as much as possible.

I've never gotten the argument that the various sourcebooks hem in players. I've always seen it as the more that is published for a given era, the more robust the framework the players can build off of. But that's just 2¢...

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CrazyGrasshopper

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #731 on: 12 May 2017, 23:46:19 »
I'll join "pro-3d-SW-prducts" camp. It's easier to build on a more fleshed-out era. And the main milestones are already known. And even a full historical on the 3d SW will leave a lot of space for improvisation, due to sheer length of the war.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #732 on: 12 May 2017, 23:48:40 »
I look at it this way.  "Battletech has a history.  Tell it.  We'll fill in the details with dice."
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
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Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
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pheonixstorm

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #733 on: 13 May 2017, 01:03:58 »
I look at it this way.  "Battletech has a history.  Tell it.  We'll fill in the details with dice."

 O0 O0 O0

Best answer given so far.

Either stick with canon or use the books to make your own story. There is no way that new material could or should keep you from doing whatever you want unless you have an oak tree stuck up your rump.

abou

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #734 on: 13 May 2017, 07:10:36 »
Eh, agree to disagree. I prefer the 3rd SW to be the sandbox that it has been. We already know that it was a long, low-intensity war. It ranges from 2866 to 3025. The Successor states couldn't even keep up a sustained, organized campaign without severe financial hardship. Even by the time of the 4th war, Operation Rat almost bankrupted the FedSuns. The whole nature of the 3rd war was small raiding actions, a seesawing of borders, a select number of short & grander actions, and a continuing degradation of technology.

I don't see the point or utility of resources being given to such a book. Even more so when some of the larger events such as the Anton Marik Civil War and Great Lee Turkey Shoot have already been described elsewhere. If given a choice between advancing the metaplot or another historical book, I choose the former.

RotS fan

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #735 on: 13 May 2017, 09:26:40 »
Instead of talking about products that don't exist, why don't we focus on what's coming up? 2nd SW and ilClan will be released soon. The only problem is that we don't know how soon is soon

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #736 on: 13 May 2017, 09:29:28 »
Instead of talking about products that don't exist, why don't we focus on what's coming up? 2nd SW and ilClan will be released soon. The only problem is that we don't know how soon is soon

And that's the whole discussion.

abou

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #737 on: 13 May 2017, 09:52:28 »
Instead of talking about products that don't exist, why don't we focus on what's coming up? 2nd SW and ilClan will be released soon. The only problem is that we don't know how soon is soon
As Tai Dai, said, that's basically the extent of what we can talk about.

I mean, what is the point? What more can we talk about that we haven't in 25 pages? We have not had anything from ilClan in terms of preview material. 2nd SW has given us some art. If 2nd SW book can maintain the quality of the 1st SW, I'll be very happy... that's about all I can say.

jklantern

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #738 on: 13 May 2017, 11:48:07 »
What they HAVEN'T told you is that they've actually COMBINED ilClan and 2nd Succession War.  See, the Adder Collective was going to invade the Inner Sphere, but a Jumpship accident occurs, and then branching timelines, and thus we see-

*JKLantern gets thrown out of the thread.*
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Gaiiten

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #739 on: 13 May 2017, 12:19:10 »
Exactly.

There were Warrior-Caste-loyal scientists, and not an irrelevant amount of them. Many were purged by the Warriors anyway, but even if they hadn't, they still wouldn't have been much help with coming up with new Tech. The Warriors had been morphing the Scientist Caste in to a geneticist Caste for more than a century at that point. And unlike the movies and most RPGs, "science" isn't a catchall skill that makes you good at *everything*. Biochemists aren't going to know anything about material science, energy or weaponry. They may be able to absorb existing materials, but that's a far cry from being able to innovate. That might be in reach for a handful of cutting-edge individuals, who are rare.
And must be found within the relatively small pool that is the Scientist Caste. A Caste which includes numerous individuals who are barely better than lab assistants and school teachers. Not fertile ground to find the creator of the next ER-Pulse-PPC-ATM.

Now, given enough time, perhaps something would've surfaced, but the WOR was relatively brief. And the Society portion of it was less still.

Paul

Well I understand and I know the Homeclans are on a very low priority.

However, let me explain my reasons why I think that there could/should have been some new designs constructed in the WoR.

First, due new weapon tech, you are correct that you wrote about, however, there was somewhat of a new rush of development of new technologies before the WoR, but suddenly it ended. There could have been some more technologies and/nor new designs in development for some years, that is very likely that some of these would get workable, this is my educated guess.

Secondly the disruption of logistic and production chains.
Many planets were lost with their production facilities, so many of the used designs were lost or losses among could not be replaced or even repaired.

For example Clan X can not produce heavy Mechs anymore. Declaring a ToP against another Clan does not work because the forces are too weak. However they do have facilities and resources left. But no construction plans.
IMHO it would be reasonable and less expensive to construct a new design rather than trying to retro-construct an known. They do not have high-tech resources as to XL engines, Endo-Steel composite structure or ferro-fibrous armour but a steady production of material to construct a 70t Omnimech (3/5/0) with standard engine, standard internal structure and standard armour. It is not state of the art, but a good makeshift solution. A jury-rigged design, ugly as the night, but do not bother, it can fight.
Good engineers and technicians can do this.

Just look at the Balius Omnimech, constructed on-tour during the relocation of the Horses during the WoR, IMHO that no Homeclan did introduce a new design is very unbelievable. This is somewhat of a blight to the WoR storyline.

Thirdly, think of your are a loyal scientist, but due the crimes of rebel members of your caste you feel the increasing distrust. You know how erratic the warriors (hardly educated they are you know) can be, you fear for your life. Would you not be especially motivated to prove both you loyalty and worth to your Clan? How better could you do this in giving them new tools of war? If you not you are without use. And if you are not of value for your Clan ... you know what I mean.

Fourthly, especially till the culmination of the WoR the surviving Clans should have gotten samples of new technologies and at some new designs made of state-of-the-arts technologies could have been introduced into the toumans.

The WoR sourcebook gets less detailed to the end (due he sparse information the IS author got I have understand), so there is some potential left, I think. Especially the epic battles in the Viper Annihilation cry for some new.

Fifth, we are told about new WiGE Protomechs in the WoR, but no designs was presented to us, so here is potential left.

My five cents.
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #740 on: 13 May 2017, 12:25:47 »
I'm not sure what if anything the Third Succession War is likely to get, although I'd love to see an Era Report or Era Digest - but I think what I'd like most would be something like a version of Total Chaos set in the Third Succession War. I can't speak for anyone else, but I must've spent more time playing a mercenary unit during that war than just about anything else, and several different sets of linked scenarios for mercenaries (or their opponents) spanning the decades would be great fun.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

Eisenwolf

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #741 on: 13 May 2017, 13:32:59 »
I'm not sure what if anything the Third Succession War is likely to get, although I'd love to see an Era Report or Era Digest - but I think what I'd like most would be something like a version of Total Chaos set in the Third Succession War. I can't speak for anyone else, but I must've spent more time playing a mercenary unit during that war than just about anything else, and several different sets of linked scenarios for mercenaries (or their opponents) spanning the decades would be great fun.

Totally this!  O0
Total Chaos was IMHO one of the greatest books in BT history. I would love to get another one. Or someting similar.



Iron Mongoose

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #742 on: 13 May 2017, 16:47:58 »
The one thing I'd say about the 3rd Succession War would be to do it very carefully (not that I don't think that's done for every product).  The 1st Succession War or the Klondike Campaign and so on were always more rumor and legend, so if things have to be tweeked and refined, then so be it.  The Star League the same, closer to Camelot than anything else.  But the 3rd War (at least the end of it) has been the foundation of many player's understanding of the game.  It really was the first thing we ever had, so any minor changes can really reverberate, and brush up against not just some dusty old books, but against 30 years of cherished memories.

If it was me (and it isn't) I think I'd probably leave the late 3rd Succession War alone, just out of that abundance of caution. 
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Dragon Cat

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #743 on: 14 May 2017, 09:35:25 »
I look at it this way.  "Battletech has a history.  Tell it.  We'll fill in the details with dice."

Awesome 👏
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Wrangler

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #744 on: 14 May 2017, 09:50:04 »
Any word on Case White, by Victor Milan?  That was one of the novels slated to come out. 
It doesn't have any ties with IlClan stuff, so it's past tense.  I hope it comes out this year if not sooner.
It sounds like it will be a interesting read!   Shadow of Faith i want to come out as well.

Mr. Pardoe is working on a new novel in Dark Age so i hope we see it next year!
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Nerroth

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #745 on: 14 May 2017, 13:54:52 »
As a corollary to the Third Succession War discussion, is there any prospect of seeing additional products set in the Clan Homeworlds or Deep Periphery during this era?

The Clan Political Century might offer a few additional options; for example, it may be interesting to see the events surrounding the Dragoon Compromise detailed in a similar manner to how the REVIVAL Trials were handled. Or, perhaps, a file detailing a particularly notable Goliath Scorpion Seeker campaign, which could play up on the AToW elements involved.

Also, I would like to see more on the emergence of the Hanseatic League, and/or on the early Umayyad-Castilian conflicts. Indeed, if one wanted to "cross the streams", perhaps the later establishment of the Imperio may not have marked the first time a Goliath Scorpion presence could have been found in Nueva Castile?
« Last Edit: 14 May 2017, 14:02:27 by Nerroth »

Empyrus

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #746 on: 14 May 2017, 14:36:34 »
Mr. Pardoe is working on a new novel in Dark Age so i hope we see it next year!
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Fat Guy

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #747 on: 14 May 2017, 16:10:17 »
I'd like to see the novels released at a rate greater than one a year.
I have spoken.


Dmon

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #748 on: 14 May 2017, 16:55:43 »
Any word on Case White, by Victor Milan?  That was one of the novels slated to come out.

I actually thought this was a compilation of the Case White shorts released on BattleCorps.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #749 on: 14 May 2017, 16:56:33 »
I actually thought this was a compilation of the Case White shorts released on BattleCorps.

Nope. Brand new story.

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