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Author Topic: APC help  (Read 2374 times)

Lord greystroke

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APC help
« on: 22 March 2017, 14:47:16 »
I need some help I don't normal use infantry and APC's but I am going hire an infantry platoon for game I am in  mostly for base security but I wanted mounted them in Vee's .
Hopefully no more then two APC's will be needed what are the best choices in the mid 3060's available to a former Fed Com now mercenary unit
« Last Edit: 22 March 2017, 15:31:47 by Lord greystroke »

Sartris

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Re: APC help
« Reply #1 on: 22 March 2017, 21:55:29 »
If you're looking for a low-cost / bv option, the heavy hover apc fits the bill

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Re: APC help
« Reply #2 on: 22 March 2017, 21:57:26 »
Maxim Heavy transport : Good speed, with decent fire power and armor.

Prowler Multi-Terrain Vehicle: She's a tad slow but she has good mix of weapons, decent armor, and a active probe to find hidden bad guys.

Goblin Medium tank: Another slow unit but you get a choice between L Laser, LRM , or Large Pulse Laser variants. All with good armor.
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Re: APC help
« Reply #3 on: 22 March 2017, 22:49:36 »
Low-end options: the Heavy APC series. Wheeled, tracked, or hover, they'll carry two platoons of typical foot troopers each, or one platoon and a support LRM-5/SRM-4.

They're not meant for fighting, they're basically lightly armed & armoured busses, but very economical & effective for what they do.
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JenniferinaMAD

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Re: APC help
« Reply #4 on: 23 March 2017, 05:10:19 »
Karnov VTOLs are a bit pricier, but are an excellent choice if you need to move the infantry between temporary field bases without road access a lot.

If you know you'll have at least dirt roads, flatbed trucks should suffice for the above task and would be the cheapest of all options.

If you want to possibly bring the infantry into combat scenarios, then one of the heavy APCs would likely be your best bet. Wheels are the cheapest, but Hover and Tracked each have their own terrain advantages.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: APC help
« Reply #5 on: 23 March 2017, 10:35:17 »

If you're running a cheap and gritty merc campaign and/or if all these foot soldiers will be doing is providing security, I'd look at the Flatbed Truck from TRO 3060.  It's a third the cost of a Heavy APC, still very mobile at 5/8 speed, and is protected by standard armor (before BAR came along).  There is six tons of cargo space in the cab, which will accommodate a platoon or two.  There's ten more tons of unenclosed cargo space, and it comes in uparmored, mortar, RL, LRM, and SRM variants.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flatbed_Truck

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1134/flatbed-truck-standard

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Paul

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Re: APC help
« Reply #6 on: 23 March 2017, 11:20:24 »
Low-end options: the Heavy APC series. Wheeled, tracked, or hover, they'll carry two platoons of typical foot troopers each, or one platoon and a support LRM-5/SRM-4.

They're not meant for fighting, they're basically lightly armed & armoured busses, but very economical & effective for what they do.

Full agreement with this, especially the option of the LRM5 or SRM4 versions. Those ideally bring some special ammo along, IE Smoke ammo can really help your infantry. Infernoes can as well. Depending on the situation, Frag ammo could help support them against other infantry, or help degrade the cover of trees.


Another approach you could consider is normal sized APCs. Only MGs for support (can still really help), and you need 1 per squad, but now you have 4 vehicles to patrol your base with.

Since infantry is cheap, you could also consider multiple platoons; helps you get around shifts. A single platoon could be enough, mind you. 2 at the gate, 2 that walk the ground, 3 that act as a combination front desk/response, and then you run 4 shifts. Or 2 shifts, doubling up some of those numbers.

Paul

Lord greystroke

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Re: APC help
« Reply #7 on: 23 March 2017, 14:02:47 »
I Suppose honestly the real concern is I only have 4 spots left on my fortress for when I need to travel for my tanks I suppose cost isn't a real concern I am loaded at the moment that will change but spend it while you have it still have all 3 slots left for infantry it should be noted they would be guarding a Dropship as well as a base occasionally

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Re: APC help
« Reply #8 on: 23 March 2017, 14:05:19 »
Well, hard to judge without knowing the rest of the unit, but 4 APCs and 4 platoons (assuming I follow your meaning) wouldn't be bad. Gives you some flexibility to. Hey, platoon 2, go set up a resupply base 100km north. Stay there and guard it. Hey, platoon 3, go secure this battlefield we just took. Hey platoon 4, we just captured some noble's mansion, go secure it.

Just make sure you pick them back up later. It'll affect morale otherwise... =)

Paul

Lord greystroke

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Re: APC help
« Reply #9 on: 23 March 2017, 14:23:04 »
Sorry its 3 platoons full stop I can fit on my fortress the rest of the unit is the below all to be on my Dropship

Tanks
Lance 1
Challenger X MBT- elite  15,349,150
SturmFeur Heavy Tank veteran  cost 2,226,938
SturmFeur Heavy Tank veteran  cost 2,226,938
Demolisher Heavy Tank veteran  cost 2,079,000


Lance 2
Drillson Heavy Hover Tank veteran  coast 2,383,334
Drillson Heavy Hover Tank veteran  coast 2,383,334
J. Edgar Light Hover Tank veteran cost 688,750
J. Edgar Light Hover Tank veteran  cost 688,750


Lance 1 mechs
Crusader- CRD-5S elite  cost 5,792,105
Black Hawk-KU- BHKU-O veteran cost 14,595,000
Wolverine- WVR-7D veteran cost 11,214,456
Bushwacker- BSW-S2 veteran cost 10,308,637

Mech lance 2
Dervish-DV-8D veteran ,782,317
Dervish-DV-8D veteran  cost 10,782,317
Bushwacker- BSW-1L veteran  cost 8,614,125
Starslayer- STY-3D veteran cost 5,020,250


Mech lance 3
Black Hawk-KU- BHKU-O veteran  cost 14,595,000
Salamander- PPR-5S veteran  cost 17,920,920
Lynx- LNX-9Q- veteran  cost 10,105,742
Hunckback- HBK-5S elite  cost 6,448,875

« Last Edit: 23 March 2017, 14:31:42 by Lord greystroke »

Karimancer

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Re: APC help
« Reply #10 on: 23 March 2017, 14:26:02 »
Personally, I'd just keep the 3 platoons in the fortress under the assumption that they're working security.

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Re: APC help
« Reply #11 on: 23 March 2017, 14:44:52 »
Nice unit!

Yeah, get yourself 3 units and 4 APCs, likely all Heavies. Most of the time, they just hang out at the DropShip, but if you ever need them elsewhere, they have the means to get there in a reasonable amount of time.

If you want to get fancy, make one a platoon of Engineers, give them their own engineering vehicle, and you can do stuff like prep hull-down positions for your tanks.

Paul

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Re: APC help
« Reply #12 on: 23 March 2017, 17:16:01 »
Could always run three heavy APCs and one escort tank, like a Striker or Vedette. That'll give the infantry some integral armor support and give you a light standalone formation that can handle assume small jobs by itself if need be.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: APC help
« Reply #13 on: 23 March 2017, 23:14:07 »

Since you're constrained by dropship bays and not cost, I'd forgo the low-cost/low-weight/low-tech infantry carrier options.  You want to make the most of your vehicle bays, and using them to transport APCs or Flatbed Trucks for drop zone security is arguably a waste of very limited interstellar transport space.  Honestly, transporting three platoons of security guards seems like a waste of space.

Instead of foot infantry, I'd go with three squads of battle armor.  They can still fulfill the dropzone security role.  If you're a merc, the Grey Death Standard suit with its Improved Sensor suite is particularly fluffy for this role.

But the battle armor can also go into the field with your mechs and tanks.  The Grey Death Standard can bring Light Recoilless Rifles into play (couples points of damage out to six hexes), conduct anti-mech attacks, survive hits up to large pulse lasers, and scout built-up terrain.  It looks like you have a lot of FedRat designs, so the Cavalier suit is also an option. 

Two BA squads can already ride into battle on your two Black Hawk-KUs.  For the third squad, you could substitute a third omnimech for one of your other mechs or use one of your remaining vehicle bays for a Maxim (BA Transport), Cavalry (Infantry), or Prowler (although this last one requires some backstory).  This leaves you with 3-4 vehicle bays that you could still apply to more powerful tanks than a lowly APC or truck.

If you stick with infantry, I'd still recommend the Maxim, Cavalry, or Prowler over APCs or trucks.  Although it's putting all your eggs in one basket, there are Maxim variants that could carry all three infantry platoons, freeing up vehicle bays for more powerful tanks.  But if you stick with three infantry carriers, I'd make them count with these higher-end options that also provide higher speeds, better protection, and/or more firepower than APCs or trucks.  Might as well make the most of your dropship bays and get combat vehicles that can do more than transport security around the dropzone.

Hope this helps... FWIW.

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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: APC help
« Reply #14 on: 23 March 2017, 23:37:09 »

Just thinking a bit more (I did the Fortress thing back in the day), here's how I might adjust and organize your mech force.  I traded one Dervish for a third Black Hawk-KU and then grouped the mechs by function into 3-unit lances.  You'll mix and match these mechs in different ways in play so the 3-unit lances are for organizational and mission clarity more, rather than fixed forces.  I then attached three BA squads to the Black Hawks:

Mech Company

Fire Lance
Salamander-5S
Crusader-5S
Dervish-8D

Strike Lance
Lynx-9Q
Bushwacker-S2
Starslayer-3D

Close Assault Lance
Bushwacker-L1
Wolverine-7D
Hunckback-5S

Cavalry Lance
Black Hawk-KU/Grey Death Standard Squad
Black Hawk-KU/Grey Death Standard Squad
Black Hawk-KU/Grey Death Standard Squad

And here's how I'd adjust and organize your vehicle force.  I traded the J. Edgars for a third Sturmfeur and a third Drillson, and then grouped the tanks by the same functions as the mech company above.  (Again, you'll combine these mechs and tanks in different ways in play.)  There are some TBDs depending on your preferences for the remaining combat vehicles:

Tank Company

Fire Lance
SturmFeur Heavy Tank
SturmFeur Heavy Tank
SturmFeur Heavy Tank

Strike Lance
Drillson Heavy Hover Tank
Drillson Heavy Hover Tank
Drillson Heavy Hover Tank

Close Assault Lance
Challenger X MBT
Demolisher Heavy Tank
TBD

Cavalry? Lance
TBD
TBD
TBD

Hope this helps... FWIW.

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Daryk

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Re: APC help
« Reply #15 on: 24 March 2017, 21:20:16 »
The MG variant of the Goblin has a 5 ton infantry bay, so that is another option.

YingJanshi

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Re: APC help
« Reply #16 on: 24 March 2017, 22:12:26 »
If you are using the APCs solely for security, why not stow them as cargo instead of taking up bay space? Sure, it'll take awhile to unpack them, but since they're only for base security, it's pretty safe to assume you won't need them for any active combat...

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Re: APC help
« Reply #17 on: 26 March 2017, 01:14:41 »
People always sing the praises of TRO:VA, so open that up a pick out a buss, that should do the job.

Lord greystroke

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Re: APC help
« Reply #18 on: 26 March 2017, 09:19:32 »
@Natasha Kerensky that looks like something I should try and aim for doubt I can achieve it now but something to plan towards

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Re: APC help
« Reply #19 on: 26 March 2017, 11:29:41 »
The Maxim is hard to beat.  It has good speed and firepower.  I would go with a Goblin if speed was not needed and if I needed more heavy guns. 

The Heavy APCs are good because they can fit a whole platoon and you intend on deploying the platoon as a whole.  It cuts down on time. 

VTOLs like the Karnov are great for moving troops quickly.  Just be very careful about any enemy AAA assets.

Flatbed trucks are the cheapest option.  The trick is not letting them get hit as they go down quickly.

Paul

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Re: APC help
« Reply #20 on: 26 March 2017, 13:01:18 »
Flatbed trucks are the cheapest option.  The trick is not letting them get hit as they go down quickly.

The other trick being to find a way to not die in your sleep when your infantry finally decides they've had enough. That's got to be the worst possible way of being shuttled.

Paul

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: APC help
« Reply #21 on: 26 March 2017, 13:38:00 »
The other trick being to find a way to not die in your sleep when your infantry finally decides they've had enough. That's got to be the worst possible way of being shuttled.

Paul

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Karimancer

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Re: APC help
« Reply #22 on: 27 March 2017, 07:43:18 »
How about J-27s? Use them to haul ammo and troops at the same time. Cheap and efficient.

Kovax

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Re: APC help
« Reply #23 on: 27 March 2017, 11:42:16 »
You've got 3 platoons of troops, but they don't need to be identical, and you probably want one to stay with the dropship for security.  That leaves a need for 2 APCs, possibly more.  I'd go with a pair of Heavy Tracked APCs(SRM), which suffer less terrain restrictions than the others, or else Heavy Hover APCs(LRM) to maximize speed despite the terrain issues.  Once the troops unload, the vehicles provide decent support against conventional infantry or other light vehicles.  You could also field two platoons of infantry and a squad of Battle Armor, rather than 3 of a single type.

A third vehicle, such as a Goblin, could carry a squad and provide additional "spine" for the APCs.  That leaves room in the vehicle lance for an Engineering Vehicle, Jeep, or Flatbed Truck purely for utility purposes, if it's not possible to obtain any wherever you're going.  Some of those could be carried as cargo, since you'll likely need the troops for perimeter duty when you first land, while the APC are being unloaded and prepped, and therefore don't count against your vehicle bays.

Tip: for transport, if you rip out a 'Mech cubicle, that frees up 150t of cargo space, which can then be filled with 150t of light 'Mechs and vehicles that have been mothballed for transport, rather than having each of those units tie up a full cubicle.  The down side is that it will be several hours before they're ready for action, and several hours before they can be put back in mothballs for transport off planet....not ideal for a quick raid, but great for redeploying your force to reinforce an established position.

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Re: APC help
« Reply #24 on: 27 March 2017, 15:29:43 »
People always sing the praises of TRO:VA, so open that up a pick out a buss, that should do the job.

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Re: APC help
« Reply #25 on: 22 December 2017, 16:40:49 »
Apologies for the necro, but I have a thought for the unit in question. If you're having infantry along, use the vehicle bays for their transports (I like Goblins and Maxims) and then in cargo put the BRV (2 minimum, though 3 is not bad) and engineering vehicle. Odds are you're not going to need these utility vehicles right away, and can afford the time to unpack them, and also pack them up first when leaving.
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Re: APC help
« Reply #26 on: 23 December 2017, 21:17:33 »
throwing my 2 c-bills ... Blizzards
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Re: APC help
« Reply #27 on: 24 December 2017, 15:01:24 »
Personally, working from the logic that you're constrained by dropship bays rather than money, I'd invest in either four badgers or four bandits.  Being omnivehicles than can be reconfigured to be what ever you need them to be.

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Re: APC help
« Reply #28 on: 24 December 2017, 16:08:33 »
So the Dropship has 3 Foot Platoons & 4 Heavy Vehicle Bays left to fill.

I'd say Maxims with the 3 ton bay to fit the Foot Platoons & be fast deployment while still providing decent fire support for the infantry & Hover Platoon.

For the 4th vehicle.   A Fulcrum
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Re: APC help
« Reply #29 on: 24 December 2017, 16:37:56 »
Lance 1 mechs
Crusader- CRD-5S elite  cost 5,792,105
Black Hawk-KU- BHKU-O veteran cost 14,595,000
Wolverine- WVR-7D veteran cost 11,214,456
Bushwacker- BSW-S2 veteran cost 10,308,637

Mech lance 2
Dervish-DV-8D veteran ,782,317
Dervish-DV-8D veteran  cost 10,782,317
Bushwacker- BSW-1L veteran  cost 8,614,125
Starslayer- STY-3D veteran cost 5,020,250


Mech lance 3
Black Hawk-KU- BHKU-O veteran  cost 14,595,000
Salamander- PPR-5S veteran  cost 17,920,920
Lynx- LNX-9Q- veteran  cost 10,105,742
Hunckback- HBK-5S elite  cost 6,448,875



Are you able to rearrange the lances?   

Assuming Officer slots are fixed, I think they might function a bit better like this....


Battle Lance 1
Crusader- CRD-5S elite  cost 5,792,105
Salamander- PPR-5S veteran  cost 17,920,920
Bushwacker- BSW-1L veteran  cost 8,614,125
Hunckback- HBK-5S elite  cost 6,448,875

Fire lance 2
Dervish-DV-8D veteran ,782,317
Dervish-DV-8D veteran  cost 10,782,317
Bushwacker- BSW-S2 veteran cost 10,308,637
Starslayer- STY-3D veteran cost 5,020,250


Cavalry lance 3
Black Hawk-KU- BHKU-O veteran  cost 14,595,000
Lynx- LNX-9Q- veteran  cost 10,105,742
Black Hawk-KU- BHKU-O veteran cost 14,595,000
Wolverine- WVR-7D veteran cost 11,214,456
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Terrace

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Re: APC help
« Reply #30 on: 01 January 2018, 21:37:26 »
This looks like the right topic to ask.

What would you guys consider the 'best' motive type for an APC servicing Jump Infantry?

Weirdo

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Re: APC help
« Reply #31 on: 01 January 2018, 22:18:54 »
I'd go for VTOLs, or hovers if you anticipate AA being a problem. When you're using jump infantry, speed and mobility is the name of the game.
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Colt Ward

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Re: APC help
« Reply #32 on: 02 January 2018, 09:50:44 »
What Weirdo said, especially IIRC anything with JJs unloading from a VTOL can be sprinkled as it goes- which makes some of those large bays more desired for moving large jump infantry formations.

So the Shun with 12 tons of cargo space can drop the 3 IS med BA squads along a line or any mix of BA & jump infantry in a single turn.
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Weirdo

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Re: APC help
« Reply #33 on: 02 January 2018, 11:49:33 »
You can still only offload in the final hex of the transport's movement, and I think combat vehicles are explicitly limited to loading/offloading a single unit per turn.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
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Re: APC help
« Reply #34 on: 02 January 2018, 16:16:36 »
Unless the VTOL is super-heavy, then it can unload one platoon into each surrounding hex.

Daryk

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Re: APC help
« Reply #35 on: 02 January 2018, 20:05:39 »
You can still only offload in the final hex of the transport's movement, and I think combat vehicles are explicitly limited to loading/offloading a single unit per turn.
Clearly, there's another infantry SPA waiting to be written...
« Last Edit: 02 January 2018, 21:27:15 by Daryk »

Weirdo

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Re: APC help
« Reply #36 on: 02 January 2018, 20:40:52 »
Yes. >:D
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Colt Ward

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Re: APC help
« Reply #37 on: 02 January 2018, 21:02:34 »
Hmm, I thought it was one of those TacOps rules- like the discussion of ziplines.  Its not in MM that I am aware of and have never needed it on TT so I never concerned myself with it.
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Daryk

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Re: APC help
« Reply #38 on: 03 January 2018, 22:39:20 »

Weirdo

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Re: APC help
« Reply #39 on: 04 January 2018, 00:55:06 »
Gah! A link to the Fan Designs forum! It buuurns!!!


"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

Daryk

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Re: APC help
« Reply #40 on: 04 January 2018, 05:13:06 »
But... your Battlemaster is red... I thought you were allowed down there? ???
« Last Edit: 04 January 2018, 05:16:03 by Daryk »

Weirdo

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Re: APC help
« Reply #41 on: 04 January 2018, 12:21:43 »
Allowed, yes.

However, this is a personal choice. I don't go down there unless my mod duties require it. Ever. I'm a no-customs kind of guy, who appreciates the fact that there's a section of the forum where people can post customs and talk about customization without my having to see it.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

Daryk

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Re: APC help
« Reply #42 on: 04 January 2018, 20:13:43 »
Ah, sorry, didn't realize that...  :-[

Hellraiser

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Re: APC help
« Reply #43 on: 14 January 2018, 01:05:31 »
Unless it changed, as Weirdo said you can only deploy in the final hex.

That said, pretty sure if you use 2MP that you can drop 2 jump capable units at the same time since they then don't stack w/ the Vtol who is still airborne.

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grimlock1

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Re: APC help
« Reply #44 on: 15 January 2018, 18:19:22 »
Unless it changed, as Weirdo said you can only deploy in the final hex.
Generally true, with a caveat.  Naval APCs can dismount jump capable troops, so long as there is valid land within in the troops jump range.  TW, page 225-224.

Troops also seem to be able to dismount into adjacent hexes to make stacking rules happy.
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