Register Register

Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery  (Read 61752 times)

HobbesHurlbut

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2866
  • Live Free or Die Hard
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1050 on: 21 January 2019, 11:34:51 »
Like when they changed how the Klingons looked in TMP?
natural progression in the make up. Problem with Discovery was that you can not SEE a link with the Klingons of previous shows and movies. And the discovery makeup was actually very restrictive on the actors, impeding their speech and expressions.
Clan Blood Spirit - So Bad Ass as to require Orbital Bombardments to wipe us out....it is the only way to be sure!

Øystein

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2449
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1051 on: 21 January 2019, 12:00:55 »
Just where does it say that:

A) Pike won't be reassigned to the Enteprise once it is repaired and his current mission/assignment is over?
B) That a ship captain is reassigned to other duties while his vessel is out of comission?

Kirk was not assigned to the Enterprise when it was under repairs (Heck, he STOLE it to get it back).
Also, nothing in this storyline in Discovery is invalidating that Pike captained the Enterprise when Kirk took over. It's years in the future from where Discovery is right now.

It was made pretty clear that commanding the Enterprise was "a big deal", and the reassignment was so that Pike could continue his current missions to investigate the red light thingiebobs. Which is why he was reassigned to the captaincy of the Discovery over the Saru - the mission was important enough to bypass Saru's rank.

Lorcan Nagle

  • 75 tons of heavy metal mayhem
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9282
  • We're back, baby!
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1052 on: 21 January 2019, 12:43:18 »
natural progression in the make up. Problem with Discovery was that you can not SEE a link with the Klingons of previous shows and movies. And the discovery makeup was actually very restrictive on the actors, impeding their speech and expressions.

There's a natural progression from blackface to melting a mars bar on someone's head?

And the makeup restricting the actors is... Well, I suppose it might be a thing, except that Mary Cheiffo did her L'Rell voice out of the makeup and it sounded pretty much the same, and ADR is a thing if the sound in the studio wasn't good (and there are scenes they clearly redubbed later).  And Burnham and Tyler pronounced Kahless with an sh sound at the  end just like the Klingons did without having prosthetics.
The moderator formerly known as the user formerly known as nenechan

Kentares

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 331
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1053 on: 21 January 2019, 12:49:01 »
They keep mangling the established canon setting (from whatever source) for the sake of having some action with lame ass excuses... seems I'm more demanding than most of you guys (yeah... must be that because I feel the same about the new Star Wars trilogy).

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16445
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1054 on: 21 January 2019, 12:57:46 »
Like when they changed how the Klingons looked in TMP?

How did Voltaire put it?

And what is with the Klingons?
Remember in the day
They looked like Puerto Ricans
And they dressed in gold lame
Now they look like heavy metal rockers from the dead
With frizzy hair
And leather pants
And lobsters on their heads

Our Officer's Club is better than your Officer's Club.

Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

guardiandashi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4100
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1055 on: 21 January 2019, 18:08:58 »
if you look at the old novels there is actually (and arguably the enterprise series) there is an explanation of the variant Klingons.  I am not saying its a wonderful explanation for the numbers, but it was there.

basically in the explanation the Klingons had groups that weren't all about genetic purity, so they were mixing genetics with other races to see what happened.

so Arguably the original skin tint makeup Klingons were a combination of human Klingon hybrids and augment virus infected Klingon results/children.  when you started running into the TMP/TNG skull ridge Klingons what you were actually seeing was essentially more pure strain Klingons.

you could also argue that the disco klingons are another offshoot branch although I couldn't tell you exactly what they were mixed with.  I would also argur that ALL the house leaders shouldn't have been unified as whatever the new Klingons are, except in a lot of ways it is a retcon of the universe. 

Maingunnery

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4671
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1056 on: 21 January 2019, 18:20:27 »
you could also argue that the disco klingons are another offshoot branch although I couldn't tell you exactly what they were mixed with.
Gorn?
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society

I am Belch II

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7644
  • It's a gator with a nuke, whats the problem.
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1057 on: 21 January 2019, 19:34:56 »
The  Klingon War in Discovery was a lot less than 4 years....from what I guess it was about 10 months to a year. The first episode was the start. Discovery picked up Burnham about 2 months in, Lorca stuff and a different universe a couple of months, then overshooting the destination by 8 months with the Federation losing bad. Timeline stuff really went haywire....but that is what happens when you do a prequel. Same thing with Enterprise NX-01 meeting the Klingons in 2151, but the original time line was 2218.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

500 is the number of Warships Now. 500 looks like it will stay for a long time.

Ruger

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3757
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1058 on: 21 January 2019, 19:53:40 »
The  Klingon War in Discovery was a lot less than 4 years....from what I guess it was about 10 months to a year. The first episode was the start. Discovery picked up Burnham about 2 months in, Lorca stuff and a different universe a couple of months, then overshooting the destination by 8 months with the Federation losing bad. Timeline stuff really went haywire....but that is what happens when you do a prequel. Same thing with Enterprise NX-01 meeting the Klingons in 2151, but the original time line was 2218.

Which "original timeline"?

Also, per "Balance of Terror", the Earth-Romulan War was fought with what those in TOS would consider primitive weapons (nukes) that allowed no quarter, and there were no visual communications...even in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie", Pike's people were armed with lasers, not phasers...and Enterprise put paid to that well before the Earth-Romulan War...

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

HobbesHurlbut

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2866
  • Live Free or Die Hard
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1059 on: 21 January 2019, 19:55:10 »
Which "original timeline"?

Also, per "Balance of Terror", the Earth-Romulan War was fought with what those in TOS would consider primitive weapons (nukes) that allowed no quarter, and there were no visual communications...even in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie", Pike's people were armed with lasers, not phasers...and Enterprise put paid to that well before the Earth-Romulan War...

Ruger
There was NO visual communication... officially. And the cloaking in Enterprise was a MISTAKE and the producers admitted that. That's why that specific thing for the Romulans was never repeated again.
Clan Blood Spirit - So Bad Ass as to require Orbital Bombardments to wipe us out....it is the only way to be sure!

Ruger

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3757
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1060 on: 21 January 2019, 20:53:24 »
There was NO visual communication... officially. And the cloaking in Enterprise was a MISTAKE and the producers admitted that. That's why that specific thing for the Romulans was never repeated again.

Where did I mention cloaking in my post?

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

R.Tempest

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 117
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1061 on: 22 January 2019, 02:05:56 »
 In TOS timeline Kirk would be Lieutenant at this point - either on the USS Republic (referenced in Court Martial) or on the USS Farragut (referenced in the episode with the blood-drinking cloud entity).
 On an unrelated humorous note it's a shame that Tilly got promoted. Yes she certainly deserved it, but no one has quite epitomized `Space Cadet' as well as her.
« Last Edit: 22 January 2019, 02:09:27 by R.Tempest »

I am Belch II

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7644
  • It's a gator with a nuke, whats the problem.
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1062 on: 22 January 2019, 08:28:54 »
In TOS timeline Kirk would be Lieutenant at this point - either on the USS Republic (referenced in Court Martial) or on the USS Farragut (referenced in the episode with the blood-drinking cloud entity).
 On an unrelated humorous note it's a shame that Tilly got promoted. Yes she certainly deserved it, but no one has quite epitomized `Space Cadet' as well as her.

Tilly is a little drunk with power now. She is just a first year ensign. There are hundreds of other people on that ship that have been there longer with more rank that would create a problem. Star Trek has always had that under rank person with a lot more power then they should...at least Harry Kim was part of the command staff and the bridge crew. Tilly dont have that I know of.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

500 is the number of Warships Now. 500 looks like it will stay for a long time.

gyedid

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1597
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1063 on: 22 January 2019, 08:34:14 »
Pike is a welcome breath of fresh air for the show. It seemed like he took over the show and made it better for the crew to rally around. I wish this episode would of been more of a starter then the first episode of season 1.

This interpretation of Pike is too informal and easygoing, IMO.  He probably comes closest to the "cowboy in space" that Gene Rodenberry originally envisioned.  OTOH, he also seems pretty unflappable under pressure, which is an invaluable trait in a commander.

(And they even made him look a bit like Bruce Greenwood's version of the character too)

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1597
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1064 on: 22 January 2019, 08:37:29 »
Tilly is a little drunk with power now. She is just a first year ensign. There are hundreds of other people on that ship that have been there longer with more rank that would create a problem. Star Trek has always had that under rank person with a lot more power then they should...at least Harry Kim was part of the command staff and the bridge crew. Tilly dont have that I know of.

I would so love it if Tilly turned out to be a Section 31 agent and the whole chatterbox thing is just an act--with a real personality a lot closer to the Mirror Universe version that murdered her way to command of Discovery.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1597
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1065 on: 22 January 2019, 10:47:08 »
Just where does it say that:

A) Pike won't be reassigned to the Enteprise once it is repaired and his current mission/assignment is over?
B) That a ship captain is reassigned to other duties while his vessel is out of comission?

Kirk was not assigned to the Enterprise when it was under repairs (Heck, he STOLE it to get it back).
Also, nothing in this storyline in Discovery is invalidating that Pike captained the Enterprise when Kirk took over. It's years in the future from where Discovery is right now.

It was made pretty clear that commanding the Enterprise was "a big deal", and the reassignment was so that Pike could continue his current missions to investigate the red light thingiebobs. Which is why he was reassigned to the captaincy of the Discovery over the Saru - the mission was important enough to bypass Saru's rank.

Pike certainly could be reassigned to the Enterprise once it's functional again.  But the key point here is that there's a loophole in canon that's been exploited here.  Up until this point, it looked like Pike commanded the Enterprise right up until his promotion to Fleet Captain (a now apparently obsolete rank, like Commodore) and command was turned over to Kirk.

I was pretty stunned at the revelation that the Enterprise didn't participate in the war against the Klingons and was considered "a weapon of last resort".  If the Federation was as badly on the ropes as implied, EVERY SINGLE CONSTITUTION-CLASS VESSEL SHOULD HAVE BEEN RECALLED.  Compared to Discovery, what is so special about it that Starfleet considered it too valuable to lose?

(well, besides that fact that all further canon depends on its continued existence...)

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9233
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1066 on: 22 January 2019, 11:17:33 »
Where did I mention cloaking in my post?


We couldn't see it, it was cloaked.
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

Lorcan Nagle

  • 75 tons of heavy metal mayhem
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9282
  • We're back, baby!
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1067 on: 22 January 2019, 11:22:51 »

I was pretty stunned at the revelation that the Enterprise didn't participate in the war against the Klingons and was considered "a weapon of last resort".  If the Federation was as badly on the ropes as implied, EVERY SINGLE CONSTITUTION-CLASS VESSEL SHOULD HAVE BEEN RECALLED.  Compared to Discovery, what is so special about it that Starfleet considered it too valuable to lose?

(well, besides that fact that all further canon depends on its continued existence...)


That line was a bit WTF for me too, given the Klingons were depicted as being in the Sol system by the time L'Rell managed to call them off.  And like, there's a novel coming out in July about what the Enterprise did during the war - apparently they were out of contact with Earth and stuck in the middle of a conflict inside a tumultuous region of deep space - and the DISCO novels and comics are meant to be canon unless the show contradicts them, Kirsten Beyer is acting as liaison between the show, Pocket Books and IDW to ensure continuity is as smooth as possible,
The moderator formerly known as the user formerly known as nenechan

ThePW

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 207
  • One post down, a thousand to go...
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1068 on: 22 January 2019, 12:05:48 »
Oh, good. now (select and favoritism-ism'd) comics and books are cannon... this can't end poorly, can it not?

Lorcan Nagle

  • 75 tons of heavy metal mayhem
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9282
  • We're back, baby!
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1069 on: 22 January 2019, 12:29:26 »
Oh, good. now (select and favoritism-ism'd) comics and books are cannon... this can't end poorly, can it not?

It's the standard for media tie-ins at the moment.  All the new Star Wars novels are canon in a way the EU never was.
The moderator formerly known as the user formerly known as nenechan

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16445
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1070 on: 22 January 2019, 13:17:29 »
They're only canon until the show's writers want to do something different.  I really doubt they're going to consult the comic books as reference material for the show.

Our Officer's Club is better than your Officer's Club.

Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

Ruger

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3757
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1071 on: 22 January 2019, 13:21:13 »
That line was a bit WTF for me too, given the Klingons were depicted as being in the Sol system by the time L'Rell managed to call them off.  And like, there's a novel coming out in July about what the Enterprise did during the war - apparently they were out of contact with Earth and stuck in the middle of a conflict inside a tumultuous region of deep space - and the DISCO novels and comics are meant to be canon unless the show contradicts them, Kirsten Beyer is acting as liaison between the show, Pocket Books and IDW to ensure continuity is as smooth as possible,

IIRC, the Fasa RPG timeline for The Four Years War also had the Constitution-class ships withdrawn from fighting in the war due to their value in other capacities...

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

gyedid

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1597
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1072 on: 22 January 2019, 13:32:12 »
IIRC, the Fasa RPG timeline for The Four Years War also had the Constitution-class ships withdrawn from fighting in the war due to their value in other capacities...

Ruger

So, do you think that one or more of the writers/producers/etc. played that game and got a good deal of their inspiration for developing the DISCO storyline from it?

So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Ruger

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3757
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1073 on: 22 January 2019, 14:01:15 »
So, do you think that one or more of the writers/producers/etc. played that game and got a good deal of their inspiration for developing the DISCO storyline from it?

Not saying that. Just trying to indicate that a lot of this stuff people are fussing about does have similarities to various things published in the past...

Still doesn't stop me from hating the look of the first season Klingons and most especially their ships (actually, virtually all the ships excepting the Enterprise)...

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Lorcan Nagle

  • 75 tons of heavy metal mayhem
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9282
  • We're back, baby!
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1074 on: 22 January 2019, 15:10:21 »
They're only canon until the show's writers want to do something different.  I really doubt they're going to consult the comic books as reference material for the show.

It's more they're working with the writers to ensure they don't step on the main storytellers' toes, I think. 
The moderator formerly known as the user formerly known as nenechan

I am Belch II

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7644
  • It's a gator with a nuke, whats the problem.
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1075 on: 23 January 2019, 13:11:05 »
I just don't understand the hold back of the Connie's and the other ships of the class. I dont think all of them were out on their mission during the time of the war. You have a enemy that is kicking your butt all the way back to the core and wipe you off of it, and you don't want to use your best ships to defend it. I know the Connie's are above and beyond anything the Feds had up to that point, and could change the war for the better and you keep them behind and away. IMO the Discovery and the Spore drive and the ability to jump from one side of the universe to the other is the biggest asset the Feds had, and should of used it better but Lorca had something to do with that.
Sometimes the people that run Starfleet do some of the dumbest tactical moves to the level of First Order in Episode 7 and 8 of Star Wars. I know its for plot and story telling.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

500 is the number of Warships Now. 500 looks like it will stay for a long time.

guardiandashi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4100
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1076 on: 23 January 2019, 18:27:02 »
I just don't understand the hold back of the Connie's and the other ships of the class. I dont think all of them were out on their mission during the time of the war. You have a enemy that is kicking your butt all the way back to the core and wipe you off of it, and you don't want to use your best ships to defend it. I know the Connie's are above and beyond anything the Feds had up to that point, and could change the war for the better and you keep them behind and away. IMO the Discovery and the Spore drive and the ability to jump from one side of the universe to the other is the biggest asset the Feds had, and should of used it better but Lorca had something to do with that.
Sometimes the people that run Starfleet do some of the dumbest tactical moves to the level of First Order in Episode 7 and 8 of Star Wars. I know its for plot and story telling.
in one sense I do get holding them back as the last line of defense of the core worlds, but they held them a bit too long for that also.

ThePW

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 207
  • One post down, a thousand to go...
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1077 on: 23 January 2019, 22:05:51 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8jHQzB9gw4

LOL, Doomcock does not hold back his ridicule of Season 2 so far...

GreyWolfActual

  • CDT Global Events Developer
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1050
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1078 on: 23 January 2019, 22:15:01 »
Is there something special about this guy? He seems to have relatively few followers but an extremely rabid hated of Discovery.
"My name is Saul Tigh. I'm an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be. And if I die today, that's the man I'll be."
-Saul Tigh

ThePW

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 207
  • One post down, a thousand to go...
Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #1079 on: 24 January 2019, 01:14:00 »
Is there something special about this guy? He seems to have relatively few followers but an extremely rabid hated of Discovery.
IDK. One of his videos just appeared randomly on my feed and after I watched one, I liked it (his concept). his shick reminded me of older 60 & 70's era Saturday Afternoon local TV hosts like Superhost, Big Chuck & Little John and The Ghoul Show. 
« Last Edit: 24 January 2019, 01:16:45 by ThePW »