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Author Topic: MI-90 Main Battle Tank  (Read 6258 times)

doulos05

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MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« on: 26 January 2011, 01:43:09 »
This is a vehicle designed for a story I am writing. Please let me know what you think. Also, if someone could verify the math on BV and cost I'd really appreciate it. I'm doing this entirely by hand (well, not entirely. I'm handmaking an excel spreadsheet) and I'm not 100% certain I've understood the BV calculations. It's supposed to be a decent, cheap militia tank that can serve as the backbone of a militia's vehicle forces. If you are playing with quirks from SO, this vehicle has Improved Targeting, Medium and Poor Performance.

Code: [Select]
          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    MI-90 "<I need a good name>" Main Battle Tank
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3000
Config:        Tracked
Rules:         Level 1, Custom design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   200 Military Innovations ICE
Cruise Speed:  46 km/h
Maximum Speed: 69 km/h
Armor Type:    Lexington Ltd. High Grade Standard
Armament:     
  1 Military Innovations 10-class Autocannon
  1 M-312 .50 caliber MG
Manufacturer:  Military Innovations
  Location:   
Communications System:  MI-COM Mk. I
Targeting & Tracking System:  MI-TRAK Rangefinder with HDS Suite

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
Created largely as a cheap means for militias to put tracks on the field, the
MI-90 is a bare-bones track with minimal frills and extras.

==Capabilities:==
The MI-90 is designed expressly with militias in mind. It's
crew stations are designed for ease of use and a short
learning curve. With a top speed of 69 kmh and exceptionally
poor acceleration, the MI-90 is more suited to defensive
operations than offensive, and it's armor allocation belays
that fact as well.

With sufficient turret armor to sustain 2 AC/20 hits without
a degradation in combat power, the MI-90 is intended for
deployment in prepared positions or using terrain for a hull-
down position. The commander's and driver's stations have
special sensor suites attached to aid in positioning the tank
in cover. Sections of the tank which are not behind cover light
up red on the readout, alerting the driver that the tank is not
properly positioned and allowing easier positioning.

It's combat power is modest, with a sole AC/10 with two 10
round ammo bins and a single .50 cal machine gun with a 100
round magazine. The Military Innovations AC/10, when coupled
with the MI-TRAK Rangefinder is optimized for engagement ranges
in the 180 to 300 meter range bracket. It is a very rugged design,
and fairly simple to maintain. The MI-312 is a actually the squad
support MG designed by Military Innovations with a stabilization mount
for vehicle use. It is designed to be removable by the crew or by an
attached infantry platoon for use as a heavy machine gun. The weapon
can be detached or reattached in as little as 20 seconds by a trained crew.

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    MI-90 Main Battle Tank
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                              Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard                       0      5.00
Engine:        200 ICE                                    0      17.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      0
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:  6
Heat Sinks:     0 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 3 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      1.50
Armor Factor:  144 pts Standard              0      9.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         30
   Left / Right Sides:        5      25/25
   Rear:                      5         24
   Turret:                    5         40

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 AC/10                    Turret  0     20     3      14.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0  100    2      1 .00
1 Searchlight            Turret   0          1      0.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                    6     15.00
Items & Tons Left:                           7       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        781,750 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    635 (old BV = ???)
Cost per BV:       1,231.10
Weapon Value:      ??? / ??? (Ratio = ??? / ???)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = ??;  MRDmg = ??;  LRDmg = ??
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / ??
                   Damage PB/M/L: ?/?/?,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: ??
                   Specials: Searchlight
 
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

Moonsword

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #1 on: 26 January 2011, 09:18:55 »
Oh, cute, a mini-Po.  Armor distribution is a bit thin on the front - you don't normally see the skew in favor of the turret exclusively - but I don't see anything wrong.

BV is correct, cost is 835,000 C-Bills per HMV.  Without breaking the cost down by hand, I couldn't tell you where the discrepancy is.

doulos05

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #2 on: 26 January 2011, 09:47:17 »
Yeah. I wasn't sure about the heavy skew in favor of the front. I could make it 40/22/22/20/40. I wasn't sure if that would be better, worse, or indifferent.

Yeah, it is a mini-Po. I also thought about going with the AC/5 instead of the AC/10. AC/5 gives me 5 more tons to play around with (since I can drop a ton of ammo). I think that's enough for a 5/8 movement profile, which would be nice... I'll have to stat that up tomorrow.
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #3 on: 26 January 2011, 10:04:02 »
At which point you have a Vedette.  It's fine as it is, honestly.

doulos05

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #4 on: 26 January 2011, 10:13:37 »
Thanks. I'm planning on this particular company producing an IFV, a scout car, and a VTOL as well, all aimed at planetary militia. I'll post them once they're finished.
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

tomaddamz

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #5 on: 26 January 2011, 17:21:43 »
If you plan on this tank being static in nature ( at least for a period of time ) in a fortified revetment, then the the armor disposition is fine.  Otherwise the majority of hits will be on the hull ( I think 83% of them) and you will be knocked out rather quickly. 

The choice of the AC/10 is a great choice for this tank ( indeed any tank at 45 to 50 ton) due to the diversity of ammo available to use depending on your opponent, and the affordable cost per shot.

I would consider a variant dedicated on supporting this vehicle with longer range indirect fires, be it LRM/MML/Mech Mortar to avoid situations where this vehicles main gun will simply be stood off.
Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech therefore not a threat is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old.

doulos05

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #6 on: 26 January 2011, 19:34:23 »
If you plan on this tank being static in nature ( at least for a period of time ) in a fortified revetment, then the the armor disposition is fine.  Otherwise the majority of hits will be on the hull ( I think 83% of them) and you will be knocked out rather quickly. 

The choice of the AC/10 is a great choice for this tank ( indeed any tank at 45 to 50 ton) due to the diversity of ammo available to use depending on your opponent, and the affordable cost per shot.

I would consider a variant dedicated on supporting this vehicle with longer range indirect fires, be it LRM/MML/Mech Mortar to avoid situations where this vehicles main gun will simply be stood off.
Yeah, I am anticipating them being somewhat static, hence the fluff about the hull down sensors. I'm not so sure about the AC/10 being a great choice for a 45 to 50 ton tank though. This is the first tank of such a weight that I have designed for a while and in a 3025 environment there's just not enough tonnage without going Fusion (which didn't fit the fluff). The MI-90 has to be almost 4 tons short of maximum armor (max is 216, it carries 144) and have an honestly abysmal movement profile for a 50 tonner in order to pack it in. I suppose I could drop a ton of ammo for a ton of armor, which would make it better....

Good idea about the LRM variant. My character (the Lyran merchant who runs this company) is already thinking of the deals he can set up (Lance Pack: 3 AC/10 variants, 1 LRM variant, 10% off.)
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

Moonsword

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #7 on: 26 January 2011, 19:43:10 »
Maximum armor isn't all it's cracked up to be on a tank and, for an ICE 50 tonner, 4/6 is actually perfectly normal.  Heck, it's normal for Clan tanks around that range.  It's comparable in some ways with the Bulldog despite being ten tons lighter so I think you're doing okay.

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #8 on: 26 January 2011, 20:30:14 »
Yeah, I am anticipating them being somewhat static, hence the fluff about the hull down sensors. I'm not so sure about the AC/10 being a great choice for a 45 to 50 ton tank though. This is the first tank of such a weight that I have designed for a while and in a 3025 environment there's just not enough tonnage without going Fusion (which didn't fit the fluff).
Consider a Fuel Cell variant, it occupy the middle ground between ICE and Fusion in cost and you get some nice weight saving.
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doulos05

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #9 on: 26 January 2011, 20:50:32 »
Cool. I'll write it into xml and play with it in MM for a while, see if the armor distribution works as is or if I should tweak. Also, next week should see the other vehicles from Military Innovations!

Below is the LRM variant. Sadly, the long-range, indirect fire variant has more armor than the original. But I had two tons and wasn't sure what else to do....

Code: [Select]
          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    MI-90 "<I need a good name>" Main Battle Tank
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3000
Config:        Tracked
Rules:         Level 1, Custom design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   200 Military Innovations ICE
Cruise Speed:  46 km/h
Maximum Speed: 69 km/h
Armor Type:    Lexington Ltd. High Grade Standard
Armament:     
  1 FarFire Maxi-Rack LRM 20
  1 M-312 .50 caliber MG
Manufacturer:  Military Innovations
  Location:   
Communications System:  MI-COM Mk. I
Targeting & Tracking System:  MI-TRAK Rangefinder with HDS Suite

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
Intended as a lance command track for platoons of the original variant of
the MI-90, this track features an enhanced communications suite and LRM-20
for additional stand-off capability

==Capabilities:==
The MI-90 is designed expressly with militias in mind.
It's crew stations are designed for ease of use and a short
learning curve. With a top speed of 69 kmh and exceptionally
poor acceleration, the MI-90 is more suited to defensive
operations than offensive, and it's armor allocation belays
that fact as well.

The command variant is slightly up-armored compared to the
original, however the turret remains the best-protected location.
It also has an additional crew station in the turret for a platoon
commander which is connected to an advanced communcation suite
, allowing him to focus on the overall flow of the battle while the tank
commander focuses on operating the tank. The only other major
difference between this variant and the original is the change of main
weapon.

Since Military Innovations does not produce an LRM missile rack, these
racks are ordered from FarFire, a very respectable producer of missile
weapons systems. Capable of direct and indirect fire, the FarFire Maxi-
Rack 20 is a perfect match for the MI-90A2 and adds a needed ranged
capability to a platoon of MI-90s.

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    MI-90A2 Main Battle Tank
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                              Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard                       0      5.00
Engine:        200 ICE                                    0      17.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      0
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:  6
Heat Sinks:     0 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 3 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      1.50
Armor Factor:  160 pts Standard              0      10.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         39
   Left / Right Sides:        5      27/27
   Rear:                      5         27
   Turret:                    5         40

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 20                 Turret  0     24     3      12.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0  100    2      1 .00
1 Searchlight            Turret   0          1      0.00
1 Communications Equipment Body   0    0     1     1.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                    7    14.00
Items & Tons Left:                           7       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:         886,750 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    721 (old BV = ???)
Cost per BV:       1,229.89
Weapon Value:      ??? / ??? (Ratio = ??? / ???)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = ??;  MRDmg = ??;  LRDmg = ??
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / ??
                   Damage PB/M/L: ?/?/?,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: ??
                   Specials: Searchlight
 
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

doulos05

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #10 on: 26 January 2011, 20:51:34 »
Consider a Fuel Cell variant, it occupy the middle ground between ICE and Fusion in cost and you get some nice weight saving.
Hrm... I hadn't thought of that. I was under the impression fuel cells were a support vehicle thing only, I wonder how making this a support vehicle will affect everything...
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

Moonsword

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #11 on: 26 January 2011, 20:53:57 »
Combat vehicles can mount them under TacOps rules, but they didn't do it at that point in time.

tomaddamz

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #12 on: 26 January 2011, 21:10:04 »
Cool. I'll write it into xml and play with it in MM for a while, see if the armor distribution works as is or if I should tweak. Also, next week should see the other vehicles from Military Innovations!

Below is the LRM variant. Sadly, the long-range, indirect fire variant has more armor than the original. But I had two tons and wasn't sure what else to do....

If you intend to stay with the LRM-20, I'd equip a 3rd ton of ammo to specialist rounds ( swarm, frag, smoke...pick one).  I might also drop the size of the launcher to a LRM-15 and slap a SRM-4 on the side for close in work.

something like this...
Code: [Select]
MI-90 Violator

Mass: 50 tons
Power Plant: 200 I.C.E.
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
   1 LRM 15
   2 SRM 4s
Manufacturer: Inner Sphere

Type: MI-90 Violator

Technology Base: - I.S. Tracked Vehicle - Level 2 - 50 tons

Equipment                                                  Mass
Internal Structure:                                          5
Engine:                   200 I.C.E.                        17
    Cruising MP:           4
    Flank MP:              6
Power Amplifier:                                             0
Heat Sinks:             0 - Single                           0
Control Equipment:                                           2.5
Suspention:                                                  0
Turret:                                                      1.5
Armor Factor:         144 - Standard                         9

                   Internal    Armor
                  Structure    Value
Front                 5         30     
Left                  5         25     
Right                 5         25     
Back                  5         24     
Turret:               5         40     

Weapons, Ammo, and Equipment         Location     Space   Tonnage
LRM 15                                Turret        1        7
SRM 4                                 Turret        1        2
SRM 4                                 Turret        1        2
Ammo (LRM 15) 16                       Body         1        2
Ammo (LRM 15 - Frag.) 8                Body         1        1
Ammo (SRM 4) 25                        Body         1        1


Cost: 1,171,750



« Last Edit: 26 January 2011, 21:19:19 by tomaddamz »
Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech therefore not a threat is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old.

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #13 on: 26 January 2011, 21:19:11 »
Combat vehicles can mount them under TacOps rules, but they didn't do it at that point in time.
Actually at least one or two combat vehicles with Fuel Cell show up in one of the Record Sheets products recently released.
« Last Edit: 26 January 2011, 21:22:22 by HobbesHurlbut »
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Moonsword

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #14 on: 26 January 2011, 21:23:42 »
They're also all Jihad era units, which was my point.  It just wasn't really done.  It's not impossible but the difference is something to be aware of in fluff terms.  TRO3085S mentions that they weren't really battlefield-grade until around 3080 and were rarely seen in front-line units due to reliability issues.

doulos05

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #15 on: 26 January 2011, 21:54:07 »
They're also all Jihad era units, which was my point.  It just wasn't really done.  It's not impossible but the difference is something to be aware of in fluff terms.  TRO3085S mentions that they weren't really battlefield-grade until around 3080 and were rarely seen in front-line units due to reliability issues.
Yeah, since I am kinda going for fluff, it'd be important to follow. Then again a bare bones militia unit might actually be desperate enough to try it....
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #16 on: 26 January 2011, 21:57:24 »
Or simply leave the Fuel Cell concept as a future variant for those Militias with a little more money. A Fuel Cell vehicle's still cheaper than a BattleMech for most part  8)
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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #17 on: 26 January 2011, 22:00:33 »
Considering the lower price multiplier and the way vehicles are generally cheaper to begin with, that's really not a surprise.

Alexander Knight

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #18 on: 26 January 2011, 22:01:37 »
All things being equal, a vehicle will always be cheaper than a 'Mech.  Making it a fuel cell tank doesn't alter that equation.

tomaddamz

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #19 on: 26 January 2011, 22:23:42 »
All things being equal, a vehicle will always be cheaper than a 'Mech.  Making it a fuel cell tank doesn't alter that equation.

The defining factor will be tech base and availability of industry.  The tech base to manufacture Fuel Cell is the same a a Fusion Engine, with the prospect of being fuel independent I know I would accept the greater weight and cost; not to mention the simplifying of the logistics tail.
Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech therefore not a threat is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old.

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #20 on: 26 January 2011, 22:26:02 »
No, it's not.  The tech rating is the same, but the industrial needs are different.

tomaddamz

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #21 on: 26 January 2011, 22:51:38 »
No, it's not.  The tech rating is the same, but the industrial needs are different.

Call it an abstraction then.  you may only have so many manufacturing complexes of tech level E.  They can either produce Fusion engines or fuel cells.  To me the more efficient choice is to produce fusion engines as they do not require more than trivial amounts of fuel and can mount energy weapons efficiently where as fuel cells cannot , but consume less mass.
Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech therefore not a threat is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old.

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #22 on: 26 January 2011, 22:58:50 »
TR D, actually.  And no, we don't actually have the ability to say that since the specific production needs are different.  Fuel cells are considerably more common in civilian applications, so the potential number of manufacturers and engineers familiar with them is actually much higher, meaning that a simple recitation of the tech ratings is fairly meaningless.

ICEs are, of course, even more abundant.  Simple price is a bit misleading when you consider availability.

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #23 on: 26 January 2011, 22:59:01 »
Call it an abstraction then.  you may only have so many manufacturing complexes of tech level E.  They can either produce Fusion engines or fuel cells.  To me the more efficient choice is to produce fusion engines as they do not require more than trivial amounts of fuel and can mount energy weapons efficiently where as fuel cells cannot , but consume less mass.

That's like saying you can either produce Light Autocannons or PPCs or heavy bridgelayer units, since all of those are Tech Level D.

I respectfully disagree with your assertion.

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #24 on: 27 January 2011, 19:19:20 »
I posted a scarily similar design (the Broadsword) on the old boards that I use in my campaign.  The only difference is a 1 ton infantry bay exchanged for armor.  I've had a good amount of success with them.  They provide a nice roadblock for pirates or other lightly equipped raiders I designed them to face off against. 

doulos05

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Re: MI-90 Main Battle Tank
« Reply #25 on: 27 January 2011, 21:13:08 »
excellent. The fluff for the merc unit I'm standing up is a merchant baron whose production facility keeps getting raided so he decides to stiffen his militia with a few mercenaries on permanent retainer, which eventually evolves into a PR means of promoting his vehicles.
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

 

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