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Author Topic: Aviation Pictures Part Trois  (Read 44820 times)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #540 on: 12 February 2018, 22:13:19 »
I have to ask: what was the point of mixing props and jets on that thing in the first place?

It was the six props to begin with. The jets were added later due to the plane being a bit underpowered. They helped, to an extent, but created a whole new set of problems (lots of weight added to a place on the wing that didn't really like having weight added). Other late-life mods included a bulged cockpit, experiments with belly-mounted 'midget' fighters... Granddad mentioned that at one point the .50 cal guns were removed from one plane in exchange for single-mount 20mm cannons, but the guns were never installed on the plane before it was retired.

Note that the engine additions made it one of the very few aircraft to make it into line service with jet AND prop engines (not to be confused with a turboprop like the P-3 Orion or Tu-95 Bear). Other experiments with that idea either failed or were testbeds to begin with.
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CrossfirePilot

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #541 on: 12 February 2018, 22:14:53 »
From my understanding the jets were supposed to only be used when an extra dash of power was needed, either in takeoff or a dash over the target.  Early on the piston engines were still more efficient for cruise than the J 47 jet engines.

Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #542 on: 12 February 2018, 22:21:19 »
Jet engines are more powerful but are also burn more fuel. Props are more fuel efficient, not quite as powerful but are more reliable. So we went through a period of aviation design theory in the 50s when they tried to get the best of both worlds with a mix of jet engines to give extra power on take-off and climb but props for fuel efficient cruising and therefore better range before in-flight refuelling became standard practice.

Some other mixed engine military aircraft:

Fairchild C-123 Provider (aka Jailbird from the movie Conair, also made appearances in the movies Dumbo Drop and Air America)


Lockheed P-2 Neptune
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Ghost0402

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #543 on: 12 February 2018, 22:42:55 »
Jet engines are more powerful but are also burn more fuel. Props are more fuel efficient, not quite as powerful but are more reliable. So we went through a period of aviation design theory in the 50s when they tried to get the best of both worlds with a mix of jet engines to give extra power on take-off and climb but props for fuel efficient cruising and therefore better range before in-flight refuelling became standard practice.

Some other mixed engine military aircraft:

Fairchild C-123 Provider (aka Jailbird from the movie Conair, also made appearances in the movies Dumbo Drop and Air America)


Lockheed P-2 Neptune

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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #544 on: 13 February 2018, 04:31:07 »
Did the combi power plant planes have two sets of fuel tanks for avgas and jet fuel?
« Last Edit: 13 February 2018, 04:34:44 by chanman »

Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #545 on: 13 February 2018, 07:54:55 »
Quote from: wikipedia article "Lockheed P-2 Neptune"
To save weight and complexity of two separate fuel systems, the Westinghouse J34 jet engines on P2Vs burned the 115–145 Avgas fuel of the piston engines, instead of jet fuel. The jet pods were fitted with intake doors that remained closed when the J-34s were not running. This prevented windmilling, allowing for economical piston-engine-only long-endurance search and patrol operations. In normal US Navy operations, the jet engines were run at full power (97%) to assure takeoff, then shut down upon reaching a safe altitude. The jets were also started and kept running at flight idle during low-altitude (500-foot (150 m) during the day and 1,000-foot (300 m) at night) anti-submarine and/or anti-shipping operations as a safety measure should one of the radials develop problems.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #546 on: 13 February 2018, 09:23:29 »
This was only of the few planes that had different sized engines to powered the plane.
I don't know if it counts because it never made it past the test phase.

Also got to give it to the couple of designs that went from propeller to jet engine. The Saab 21 and the Dornier D328 are the only few successful designs to do that.
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hoosierhick

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #547 on: 13 February 2018, 09:32:52 »
I have to ask: what was the point of mixing props and jets on that thing in the first place?

Adding the jets was an relatively easy way to add more power.  The jet nacelles and pylons were lightly modified B-47 inner nacelles and pylons IIRC.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #548 on: 13 February 2018, 17:48:15 »

C-119 had them as well, and the later -K gunship conversions mounted two for the extra thrust to get a brace of miniguns and M61 Vulcans airborne.

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #549 on: 13 February 2018, 21:35:39 »
Early jets took a long time to get to full thrust and took forever to take off and with the jets being under powered. Like the B36 only used its jets to basically get in the air, it was all prop after that.
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Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #550 on: 19 February 2018, 06:31:46 »
« Last Edit: 19 February 2018, 06:33:33 by Feenix74 »
Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


                                   - excepts from Murphy's Laws of Combat

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #551 on: 19 February 2018, 07:43:14 »
I saw one of those at Udvar-Hazy; they're shockingly tiny things.  I can't imagine how cramped they must be inside even with with 25x2x2 seating; I still wish I'd not put off the one chance I ever had at a flight over and back in '98.  Planned to, then things came up, then 'Next year' and then 'oh dear god' and that was that.

I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #552 on: 19 February 2018, 10:07:47 »
I saw one of those at Udvar-Hazy; they're shockingly tiny things.  I can't imagine how cramped they must be inside even with with 25x2x2 seating; I still wish I'd not put off the one chance I ever had at a flight over and back in '98.  Planned to, then things came up, then 'Next year' and then 'oh dear god' and that was that.

The Concorde on the inside was no larger then just your normal Regional Jet, the seats were nicer and spaced out more, but it wasn't for the luxury it was for the status and style. The fact that you flew on the Concorde!
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nerd

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #553 on: 19 February 2018, 13:12:09 »
The Concorde on the inside was no larger then just your normal Regional Jet, the seats were nicer and spaced out more, but it wasn't for the luxury it was for the status and style. The fact that you flew on the Concorde!
And speed. That it was a much shorter flight across the Atlantic made it one heck of a status symbol.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #554 on: 19 February 2018, 14:26:21 »
My grandparents got to fly on a Concorde one time.  They said it was very nice inside, not cramped at all.  And it was much quieter than a normal jet.

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Euphonium

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #555 on: 19 February 2018, 14:52:43 »
I've walked around a Concorde on the ground as a child and as an adult, although both times were ground tours. It didn't feel cramped compared to Airbus/Boeing, the seat spacing was decent, just there were fewer seats
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #556 on: 20 February 2018, 13:15:59 »
I never flew on Concorde, but I was treated to a grand tour of the one in Everett, WA several years ago. (Normally glass partitions keep people out of the cockpit and cabin, but our tour group was allowed in)

NOPE.

It's a good thing that flight is so short. I'm 6'5" and at that point about 240 lbs., and I found it was not a fun experience. Leg room wasn't much different than a standard airliner (so, awful), but the seat was very narrow, the cabin height forced me into a pose more suited to ringing bells at Notre Dame... and look, my major is aviation, I get it- smaller cabin means smaller fuselage, means less drag, means less power needed to get up to speed. Simple. But very uncomfortable for a man of my size.

For comparison's sake, next to that aircraft is the 747 prototype, City of Everett. After cramming myself in Concorde for the past 30 minutes, I could have stretched out and dozed on that birds' seats. Every time I get on an airliner, I think of City of Everett... I'm slimmer now than I used to be, but no shorter, and I dream of the days that a plane like that was the way to travel. She looks pretty awful these days, from what I hear, but only a little worn back when I toured her.
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+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

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ColBosch

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #557 on: 20 February 2018, 15:28:48 »
It is a damn shame that the 747 is going away. I never actually got to fly on one.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #558 on: 20 February 2018, 21:31:30 »
It is a damn shame that the 747 is going away. I never actually got to fly on one.

Oh it's not going away quite yet- just from American-flagged carriers. More than a few foreign carriers will keep flying them for years to come, and of course it's still king of the freight haulers. (Though I recommend against shipping yourself that way.)

The comfiest I've ever been in an airline seat was a Lufthansa 747, which I thought I'd melt into the upholstry of. (Well, absolute comfiest was a Southwest flight to Denver in which I ended up with a whole row to myself- stretching out with my head against the wall watching a movie is as relaxed as I've ever been.)
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CrossfirePilot

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #559 on: 20 February 2018, 22:30:59 »
It is a damn shame that the 747 is going away. I never actually got to fly on one.

Don't worry, I few on a few of them.  My Thailand trip in 2014 was on a old UA 747 and I sat broken down on ramp for the first 3 hours.  Last trip to Thailand we flew on a 747 from Chang Mai to Phuket.  It was kinda weird being on plan that sized for such a relatively short hop.  It was like a shortened version as well.  The 747 short...

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #560 on: 20 February 2018, 22:38:00 »
It is a damn shame that the 747 is going away. I never actually got to fly on one.

I'm pretty sure I flew on a 747 when I was a kid and my family went to New Zealand to visit my uncle.

Boy was that a long flight.

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Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #561 on: 21 February 2018, 01:23:09 »
The B747 has been a mainstay of flights out of Australia. I have had the privilege of flying on them a few times and they have always been great. Some fond memories of the B747 for me:

- landing at Kai Tak airport, Hong Kong on RWY13 using the checkerboard approach and looking out the window at a little old lady hanging up her washing from her apartment balcony not far beyond and slight above the wingtip.



- another time landing at Kai Tak with a strong crosswind and we landed so hard that I was not sure of it was just a hard landing or if we had been shot down.

- flying in centre seats (5 seats across in economy) when the aircraft was reasonably empty gave me a 5 seat width long bed to sleep in (I am only 177cm but the extra legroom was luxury).

- flying business class for work and getting a seat in the upper deck



The B747-SP (or Special Performance) which is a short-bodied B747 designed to be able to fly longer distance routes was always a pretty sight.

Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #562 on: 21 February 2018, 03:10:28 »
Those SPs always rattle me when I see them. The 747's profile is just so iconic, seeing it truncated like that just feels WRONG. It's like a Mad Cat without the shoulder missile boxes- it's still a Mad Cat, but it just feels weird.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
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I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #563 on: 21 February 2018, 06:00:31 »
The 747SP still flies but with a big door and a telescope.
The larger wings can help that 747 get higher then most.
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JarheadEd

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #564 on: 18 March 2018, 00:10:08 »
A few random photos

C-5M in Bangor Maine taken from the air stairs on the Omega KDC-10-40



Mid TRANSLANT



Behind the scenes at Farnborough



Even more behind the scenes

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Ghost0402

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #565 on: 18 March 2018, 07:13:58 »
So disappointing to see that paint scheme on a Hornet. :-[
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marauder648

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #566 on: 18 March 2018, 08:38:40 »
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #567 on: 18 March 2018, 09:24:29 »


 ^-^
Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


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Euphonium

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #568 on: 18 March 2018, 10:19:31 »
Galileo,
Galileo,
Galileo,
>>>>[You're only jealous because the voices don't talk to you]<<<<

ColBosch

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #569 on: 18 March 2018, 11:04:46 »
Gleefully stolen.
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