Register Register

Author Topic: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.  (Read 7968 times)

Kovax

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1666
  • Taking over the Universe one mapsheet at a time
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #30 on: 15 September 2017, 11:07:35 »
I see the jumpjets as a useful inclusion for the tonnage, with the Extra 1.5 tons you would gain, what would you add to the weapons?
There are two routes to take:

One possibility, reduce the heatsinking ability slightly and add another pair of jump jets, giving it full 5/8/5 movement, with no significant reduction in firepower.

The other route would be to yank the jump jets completely, add another medium laser or ton of AC/5 ammo (for alternate ammo types), and tack on 8 more points of armor.  Incidentally, I thought that it was 1 ton per Jump Jet at that tonnage, which would allow BOTH another medium laser and alternate AC ammo bin, plus another ton for whatever else floats your boat (like boosting the SRM rack up to 4 tubes), or else you could bump up the LRM rack size to give it some decent fire support capability.

I just see the existing jump range as inadequate.

nerd

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1762
  • Nunc Partus-Ready Now
    • Traveller Adventures
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #31 on: 15 September 2017, 19:49:39 »
Here's a thread from years ago of Shadow Hawk variants.
M. T. Thompson
Don of the Starslayer Mafia
Member of the AFFS High Command

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7215
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #32 on: 17 September 2017, 16:24:30 »
Back in the day, before there were record sheets for it, we thought the Kurita version of the ShadowHawk swapped the AC/5 and LRM-5 for a PPC and heatsinks. It runs pretty good for a generalist.

I think that is because the original TRO:3025 fluff didn't say it removed all the weapons, just swapped the PPC for AC5.
I recall when I finally saw the RS for it thinking that it didn't look like what I'd assumed it should.

Much like how we just assumed the Locust-1E would have 2 ML in the CT instead of moving them out to the Arms.
It was very odd to see that one for the 1st time too.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Simon Landmine

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 257
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #33 on: 17 September 2017, 16:27:52 »
Thanks to this thread I've been having some fun playing some 3025-era MegaMek with the original Shadow Hawk. Fun with battlefists swatting Wasps that get too close ...

Much like how we just assumed the Locust-1E would have 2 ML in the CT instead of moving them out to the Arms.

I often run that as the LCT-1E2. The lack of twisting is a pain, but it's a lot harder to disarm.
"That's Lieutenant Faceplant to you, Corporal!"
Things that I have learnt through clicking too fast on 'Move Done' on MegaMek: Double-check the CF of the building before jumping onto it, check artillery arrival times before standing in the neighbouring hex, and don't run across your own minefield.

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7215
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #34 on: 17 September 2017, 16:33:07 »
I don't subscribe to the infantry support mech theory.  A support unit should complement its infantry, i.e., do things that the infantry cannot do for themselves.  90-meter jumps, piddling 5-LRM volleys and 2-SRM salvos, and AC/5 support are all things that infantry can do for themselves.  Sure, the S-Hawk can move at cavalry speeds, but that just means it's going to rapidly outpace the infantry unit it's supposed to be supporting (or waste its cavalry potential). 

Technically LRM Infantry didn't exist till the 3050-60 time range.
IIRC given the Sentinel, Vulcan, & Scorpion were also fluffed as "Infantry Support", I'd say it fits right in as a less than stellar mech, which is what those all are.
It does do things the infantry can't do in that it can see over a 1 level tall Ridge,  Kick a Tank,  Take a hit from a Machine Gun, etc etc.


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7215
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #35 on: 17 September 2017, 16:37:56 »
Consider "pretty good if you don't notice it" my best possible endorsement of the Shadow hawk 2D.
It would have shined in a roll that Carlyles Command's used their S-Hawk-2H.
A ranged fire support unit for a Light Lance.
I picture them as Light Mech hunters like an oversized Valkyrie, commanding Davion Pursuit Lances.

Not a great mech, but basically use it to pick on Bugs & it works pretty well.


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7215
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #36 on: 17 September 2017, 16:43:49 »
My personal favorite customization was to drop the SRM/AC for PPC/ML thus keeping the same ranges & weapon count.

Extra 3 tons went to Armor, HS, JJ

Now you had a solid brawler along the lines of the Griffin-1S & Wolverine-1M
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7409
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #37 on: 17 September 2017, 16:45:59 »
Technically LRM Infantry didn't exist till the 3050-60 time range.
IIRC given the Sentinel, Vulcan, & Scorpion were also fluffed as "Infantry Support", I'd say it fits right in as a less than stellar mech, which is what those all are.
It does do things the infantry can't do in that it can see over a 1 level tall Ridge,  Kick a Tank,  Take a hit from a Machine Gun, etc etc.

not to mention it can provide AA fire for a unit without said unit having to tow around field guns (or devote field guns to AA use), can provide Inferno's to a non-SRM unit, can fire on the move (without having to stop and deploy towed guns), etc.

Infantry units are fairly specialized, and there is no such thing as a viable "jack of all trades infantry battalion", but sticking even a lance of Shadow Hawks or similar mechs will give said battalion a few options that it otherwise would lack due to its specialization.. on platform that is more mobile and durable than a tank.

and the Shadow Hawk is a fairly decent tank killer.. longer range AC for plinking, SRm's for inferno's, mobile.. against the lighter tanks it is a real killer. mostly via crits than sheer damage though.

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7215
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #38 on: 17 September 2017, 17:02:23 »
Actually, the game in the 3025 era or so said that medium 'Mechs made up about 48-50% of all 'Mech forces, lights were about 35% of the total, heavies about 15%, and assaults were about 1-2% of the total 'Mech forces, IIRC...

The Bug 'Mechs were the most produced individual designs, but overall, there are more medium 'Mechs around than lights...but taken as individual designs, you are probably more likely to pilot a bug 'Mech than any other individual design...

Your close, Original 3025 Sources have the split as a nice even Light-30, Medium-40, Heavy-20, Assault-10

That figure however was because so many Heavy/Assault mechs were destroyed in the 1st & 2nd SW to the point Lights/Mediums because a bigger % of the population & were pushed into more direct combat rolls

I think the original SLDF had larger #s of Heavy/Assault designs, probably something more like 20-30-30-20 or even 15-35-35-15
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

blackjack

  • When you're a professional pirate ...
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 972
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #39 on: 23 September 2017, 16:49:01 »
I have much love for the Shadowhawk. My favorite 3025 version was a custom "2HK". Swapped the AC5 for a PPC & two heat sinks. PPC gave it a good pop, while keeping the spirit of the SHD. Was my recon lance commander for a while. 5D is a current fav.
Fight Well, Die Hard  Agent #704                                   

CrossfirePilot

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1657
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #40 on: 23 September 2017, 20:42:34 »
-AC5
+PPC
-SRM2
+SRM4
+1SHS

But I think that was also pretty close to griffen variant.

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7215
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #41 on: 23 September 2017, 22:59:45 »
-SRM2
+SRM4

Hmmm

See that got me thinking of something that keeps it really simple & gives it a bit of an Archer-S/Crusader feel.

Completely drop the shoulder cannon concept for LRM15+2 Ammo.
Drop 2 smaller missile launchers for twin SRM4's w/ 1 Ammo.

Now you have something that can provide more serious indirect fire support while being fairly nasty at close range.

Side benefit of being completely field grade refit not even needing a repair bay to pull it off.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

CrossfirePilot

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1657
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #42 on: 23 September 2017, 23:21:50 »
LRM 15 and SRM4s would be better than a dervish!

Saint

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2503
  • Keeper of the Reaper
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #43 on: 24 September 2017, 09:48:11 »
I like the 2K for the late Succession Wars and the 3K later on.

I have done pretty well with a custom config for 3025 play.

Drop the AC 5  for a Large Laser, 1 Heat sink ,2 jump jets and add a second LRM 5. She's still a skirmisher, but you get better mid to short range fire power. Don't be afraid to ride the heat curve however.  :)
"Our eyes lie on Glory, Honor, Strength. Burned worlds will declare our name as cause."

Vonshroom

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 481
  • (Zeus mech by AntarcticanPiranha)
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #44 on: 24 September 2017, 14:33:16 »

Completely drop the shoulder cannon concept for LRM15+2 Ammo.
Drop 2 smaller missile launchers for twin SRM4's w/ 1 Ammo.

Now you have something that can provide more serious indirect fire support while being fairly nasty at close range.

Side benefit of being completely field grade refit not even needing a repair bay to pull it off.

Hellraiser, I really like this idea. I definitely see it being implemented in practicality as well. Now it would also fit in as a member of a medium fire support lance, accompanying Trebuchets, Valkyries, and the like.

I like the 2K for the late Succession Wars and the 3K later on.

I have done pretty well with a custom config for 3025 play.

Drop the AC 5  for a Large Laser, 1 Heat sink ,2 jump jets and add a second LRM 5. She's still a skirmisher, but you get better mid to short range fire power. Don't be afraid to ride the heat curve however.  :)

I've made a similar custom variant to this as the command mech for a small mercenary outfit I ran. In my case I dropped the AC and Ammo for a Large Laser, and added an extra heat sink and 3 additional medium lasers. It's plain nasty against most other 3025 era mediums and heavies as well. The further modification of this mech in later stages lead to me removing the SRM and ammo for another heat sink and a ton of armor.

Ironically this mech replaced my CO's Grasshopper, and it plays like a mini Grasshopper on the field.
For The Archon!

The_Livewire

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 477
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #45 on: 25 September 2017, 10:50:27 »
A different direction I've played with on MM is to replace the AC 5 with an AC 2.

Stop looking at me like that.  Put the extra two tons in a ton of armor and another ML on the other arm.  Now it can annoy at range, but is more formidable close up.  And it has deeper ammo reserves.

Plus it encourages flak.  I mean who cares if your 2 point annoyance becomes a 1 point annoyance.  Well except for the Helios who find it more than an annoyance ;-)
Alamo - When you care enough to send the very best.

And Purifiers *still* suck.

Kovax

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1666
  • Taking over the Universe one mapsheet at a time
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #46 on: 25 September 2017, 11:39:29 »
A different direction I've played with on MM is to replace the AC 5 with an AC 2.

Stop looking at me like that.
Not a terrible idea at all.  The AC/5 generally won't "kill" vehicles, but it will "crit" them into immobility out to 18 hexes.  The AC/2 will be worse at killing, but better still at immobilizing.  As a support unit primarily intended to operate with an infantry or vehicle company against more of the same, it's very viable, although I'd probably consider how to tack on a couple of MGs.

Personally, I'd consider either:
(A) Fixing the "well, it sort-of jumps" issue before adding more weapons.
(B) Abandon the Jump Jet idea entirely, and install additional weapons and armor with the freed tonnage.

If you're fielding a SHD primarily to fight other medium or heavier Battlemechs, you're doing something wrong to begin with.  Unfortunately, that AC change puts it into the same battlefield role as a Vulcan, and the Vulcan is both faster and cheaper.

AlphaMirage

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 330
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #47 on: 25 September 2017, 12:12:00 »
My favorite alternate Shadow Hawk has a Binary Laser and either keeps the LRM5 or replaces it with a SRM4, if I jump and fire it I will get really hot but man you cannot beat that punch.  It still won't provoke a PSR (unless all 4 SRMs hit but that's pipe-dream territory), it only gets better when Ferro and DHS get reintroduced.  Nasty little bugger and fits with the cool shoulder cannon

Daryk

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5344
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #48 on: 25 September 2017, 12:17:00 »
Blazer Cannon FTW!

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7215
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #49 on: 01 October 2017, 16:22:41 »
So not an ideal load out to be sure, but, I came up with this one when I was trying to find a use for "lesser" weapons.

Situation, its 3049 & your employer has been "gracious" enough to "gift" you with an Ultra-AC5 & several pallets of ammo.

What mech do you equip it on?

My top 2 choices for field refits of a single gun like that were Shadow Hawk & Zeus, and this is what I did with the Hawk.

The size of the UAC means it has to be C-Grade, so as long as I had to use a repair bay, I also tweaked the HS/Armor as well.
Remove AC5 - Add UAC5
Remove SRM2 - Add ML
Remove 1 HS - Add 16 points of Standard Armor.

The 11 remaining SHS is still enough to do a full Jump & Alpha the 3 close range guns which is more than you can ask for.
The extra armor, removal of SRM ammo, & increased rate of AC ammo usage means the "ticking timebomb" aspect of the mech isn't quite so bad.

Downside is, it looses the specialty ammo aspect for all but the LRMs

I call it the Shadowhawk-2U

Note:  This refit also works well if its a UAC5-prototype in the 3039 timeframe.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Giovanni Blasini

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3783
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #50 on: 30 October 2017, 19:28:41 »
Now here's a question: what if you have an SHD-1R, not an SHD-2H?
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Saint

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2503
  • Keeper of the Reaper
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #51 on: 31 October 2017, 10:34:10 »
I'd drop the AC and jump jets for a Large Laser , LRM 5 or SRM 4 with 1 ton of ammo, 2 HS, and a half ton of armor.
"Our eyes lie on Glory, Honor, Strength. Burned worlds will declare our name as cause."

lucho

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 654
  • say hello to my new friend!
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #52 on: 31 October 2017, 19:00:34 »
ah yes, the good old chickenhawk  :P Good for bullying conventional units and looking impressive in front of the rubes. Here's the variant my group used way back in the day, good for harassing slower units:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=59270.msg1362079#msg1362079
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Saint

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2503
  • Keeper of the Reaper
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #53 on: 01 November 2017, 10:04:09 »
Nice one lucho, but the question now is if you had a primitive tech Shadowhawk what would you do. :)
"Our eyes lie on Glory, Honor, Strength. Burned worlds will declare our name as cause."

lucho

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 654
  • say hello to my new friend!
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #54 on: 02 November 2017, 12:14:30 »
Nice one lucho, but the question now is if you had a primitive tech Shadowhawk what would you do. :)

Thanks. I've never worked with primitive tech, so I'll have to take a looksee  :)
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Von Jankmon

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Everyone is entitled to my opinions
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #55 on: 04 January 2018, 20:00:17 »

This version drops the SRM2, its accompanying ton of explody uselessness, and a single heat sink. For this three medium lasers get added. With an LRM5 and AC to poke at long range, and 4Mlasers up close this mech is more ammo independant, and well effective. All without losing the flavor of the Shadow Hawk.


Replacing weaponry with medium lasers is the go-to crutch of 3025.  You can improve and sterilise most designs that way. It would be a yawner though.  Shadowhawks had character and could fit in anywhere without issues.

Learn to love your Ac5, laser and assorted missiles for the classic epicness they are.

Scientist:  "Eureka! We have invented 'Enhanced Imaging' which will markedly improve your piloting ability at the cost of your sanity."
Clan Wolf: "What is the point?"
Clan Diamond Shark: "What is the price?"
Clan Jade Falcon: "What is the catch?"

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1430
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #56 on: 19 January 2018, 18:03:23 »
So not an ideal load out to be sure, but, I came up with this one when I was trying to find a use for "lesser" weapons.

Situation, its 3049 & your employer has been "gracious" enough to "gift" you with an Ultra-AC5 & several pallets of ammo.

What mech do you equip it on?

My top 2 choices for field refits of a single gun like that were Shadow Hawk & Zeus, and this is what I did with the Hawk.

The size of the UAC means it has to be C-Grade, so as long as I had to use a repair bay, I also tweaked the HS/Armor as well.
Remove AC5 - Add UAC5
Remove SRM2 - Add ML
Remove 1 HS - Add 16 points of Standard Armor.

The 11 remaining SHS is still enough to do a full Jump & Alpha the 3 close range guns which is more than you can ask for.
The extra armor, removal of SRM ammo, & increased rate of AC ammo usage means the "ticking timebomb" aspect of the mech isn't quite so bad.

Downside is, it looses the specialty ammo aspect for all but the LRMs

I call it the Shadowhawk-2U

Note:  This refit also works well if its a UAC5-prototype in the 3039 timeframe.

see, I'd SELL the Jammin' Cannon, or see about trading it for something that's reliable.

But then, my fave SHD-2H version swaps the AC/5 for an LBX and adds CASE.

*if the LBX-5 isn't available, well...you can still buy better ammo.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

imperator

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 643
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #57 on: 26 January 2018, 04:13:20 »
I was reading Decision at Thunder and even though its a good book, right up there with Heir to the Dragon, its description of the Shadow Hawk 2H is too impressive for its actual stats.  I started to tinker with the design and decided on this refit.  And the in character reason its still considered a 2H......it's totally unofficial and invisible.  But this is the feared 2H.

Reduce Armor by 1 ton, remove 2 heat sinks.  Add SRM-2 and LRM-5.  Now, when in the book, it describes a "hail of missiles",  14 of them coming down range might actually threaten its 55ton brethren or even some of the lighter heavies.
Their is no problem Jump Jets and an assault class auto-cannon can't handle.

MarauderD

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 641
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #58 on: 27 January 2018, 17:00:04 »
Did you call it a thinking man’s SHD-2D? Cause it is pretty close!

imperator

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 643
Re: The ShadowHawk and Alternate Loadouts.
« Reply #59 on: 28 January 2018, 02:41:05 »
Did you call it a thinking man’s SHD-2D? Cause it is pretty close!

Yeah, I notice that as well.  It might be what the SHD-D would be modded to.  Instead of the extra LRM, drop in an SRM2 and Md Lsr.  Its running a lot hotter, but having 2 Meds and 6 SRM would definitely be a surprise!!!
« Last Edit: 30 January 2018, 22:31:33 by imperator »
Their is no problem Jump Jets and an assault class auto-cannon can't handle.