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Author Topic: Infantry Support Options  (Read 3291 times)

Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #30 on: 27 November 2017, 21:30:50 »
Weight is a poor measure for that... the lightest "1E" weapon is 7.0 kg (the Thunderstroke Gauss Rifle), while the heaviest "1" is the MRM Launcher at 30.0 kg.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #31 on: 27 November 2017, 22:15:54 »
Why not the SRM, Light?  Range 2, .57 damage and weighs in at 10kg / 9kg per reload.

TT
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Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #32 on: 27 November 2017, 22:19:37 »
Because it takes two of them per Squad to up the range of your Auto-Rifles (damage 0.52) to 2, and slows the platoon down.  If you only take one (to avoid the movement penalty), you're not increasing the damage of a Squad over just another Auto-Rifle.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #33 on: 27 November 2017, 22:28:52 »
I rather have range over damage myself. The ability to send some love downrange far out weighs the cost.

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #34 on: 27 November 2017, 22:36:08 »
Then your best bet is a pair of Inteks (or other Range 3 rifle) per Squad with the balance being Auto-Rifles.  All the range, some of the damage, but all the mobility and that -2 Weirdo mentioned...

Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #35 on: 27 November 2017, 23:06:34 »
Ok, tell me if this sounds crazy;

Primary: Laser Rifles
Secondary: 1x Automatic Grenade Launcher per squad

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #36 on: 27 November 2017, 23:29:27 »
Remember, actual custom designs(even infantry platoons) properly belong in the Fan Designs forum. :)
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #37 on: 27 November 2017, 23:30:40 »
Designate a commander squad should help.

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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Challenger

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #38 on: 28 November 2017, 04:22:29 »
Because it takes two of them per Squad to up the range of your Auto-Rifles (damage 0.52) to 2, and slows the platoon down.  If you only take one (to avoid the movement penalty), you're not increasing the damage of a Squad over just another Auto-Rifle.

IMO this is the single biggest problem with the infantry design rules, autorifles are too good and most support weapons to underwhelming.

I know why it ended up this way, but it still feels wrong.

Challenger

Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #39 on: 28 November 2017, 05:20:26 »
Remember, actual custom designs(even infantry platoons) properly belong in the Fan Designs forum. :)
It would be nice if either the Battle Armor board included "Infantry" in its title, or if there was a sub-forum for Infantry... :)

As for the auto-rifle issue, it won't be fixed until TPTB are willing to abandon the table links to older editions.  Honestly, they seem to be doing it by increments through the errata.  What they really need to do is sit down with a spreadsheet of all the possible AP/BD/Burst combinations and work from that vice making estimates in ATOW and being surprised how things turn out when converted.  That's how I ended up with my Machine Gun and Grenade Launcher threads down in Fan Rules...

Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #40 on: 28 November 2017, 19:45:42 »
Ok, but talking seriously here, how would you guys rate the viability of a Platoon (any motive type) that's equipped primarily with Laser Rifles of some variety with a single Automatic Grenade Launcher per squad? Sure, the switch from Auto-Rifles to Laser lowers the damage a bit, but surely the increased range makes up for it?

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #41 on: 28 November 2017, 21:22:14 »
Terrace, in fairness, most likely usage of Lasers with said Auto Grenade would be a specialist unit. You've gotta think economics and military budgetary. Auto Rifles and Auto Grenade, yes, but with Lasers?

Bean counters unite, NO!

Common practice is best for bang, per buck.

NOW haven said that, know there isn't any possible way of saying, YES PLEASE! any faster. As long as you understand that this combo is good, some would say Cheese munch!

TT
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Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #42 on: 28 November 2017, 21:56:13 »
Terrace, in fairness, most likely usage of Lasers with said Auto Grenade would be a specialist unit. You've gotta think economics and military budgetary. Auto Rifles and Auto Grenade, yes, but with Lasers?

Bean counters unite, NO!

Common practice is best for bang, per buck.

NOW haven said that, know there isn't any possible way of saying, YES PLEASE! any faster. As long as you understand that this combo is good, some would say Cheese munch!

TT

Sounds like Great House Special Forces-level equipment to me.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #43 on: 28 November 2017, 21:58:30 »
Sounds like Great House Special Forces-level equipment to me.

There are some particularly wealthy worlds that use laser weapons as standard issue. Because they can.

Terrace, in fairness, most likely usage of Lasers with said Auto Grenade would be a specialist unit. You've gotta think economics and military budgetary. Auto Rifles and Auto Grenade, yes, but with Lasers?

Bean counters unite, NO!

Common practice is best for bang, per buck.

NOW haven said that, know there isn't any possible way of saying, YES PLEASE! any faster. As long as you understand that this combo is good, some would say Cheese munch!

TT

Come on, it doesn't even have paired heavy support lasers or anything by Mauser.  :P
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Terrace

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #44 on: 28 November 2017, 22:02:09 »
Come on, it doesn't even have paired heavy support lasers or anything by Mauser.  :P

C'mon. Can you honestly tell me that any one of the Great Houses doesn't have at least a Company's worth of Special Forces infantry equipped in exactly that fashion?

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #45 on: 28 November 2017, 22:03:49 »
C'mon. Can you honestly tell me that any one of the Great Houses doesn't have at least a Company's worth of Special Forces infantry equipped in exactly that fashion?

That or worse.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #46 on: 28 November 2017, 22:30:48 »
It's not bad, actually. You've got the range of the lasers, the grenade launcher brings your damage back up, and your guys keep their mobility and close-in accuracy. Pretty nice jack of all trades load. And I'd hardly call it overly expensive. You won't see backwoods militia hauling this gear, but I wouldn't see any problem with a front line regiment packing this, such as one of the regiments attached to an RCT.

You know who I might see with a good middle-road load like this? Smaller entities. Not talking single-world units, I'm talking mercs, corpsec. They don't have the near-bottomless treasuries of a House or March, but they also don't have to outfit millions of infantry. When you're only buying guns for a company or two, and the success or failure of those troops may mean the death or severe maiming of your entire outfit, opting to go a tier or two higher than the cheapest mass-produced crap you can find isn't going to put THAT big a dent in your budget.

Hell, opting to have your mechwarriors fire off one or two less tons of LRM ammo during a peacetime training garrison would probably make up the budget difference.
« Last Edit: 28 November 2017, 22:32:47 by Weirdo »
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #47 on: 28 November 2017, 22:35:48 »
Trust me... I can make a 3070+ Draconis Combine Infantry Platoon from hell!

Magna Laser Rifle
Vibro-Katana
Medium Variable-Speed-Laser Support...

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #48 on: 28 November 2017, 22:45:14 »
Still too many weapons to be legal. One primary weapon choice, one secondary weapon choice. No more, unless you want to start talking disposable weapons or field guns.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #49 on: 28 November 2017, 23:00:39 »
Weirdo, I'll rather take the shoot or scoot.

Now I CAN choose to run with last paragraph, above Assigning Secondary Weapons pg.151.

As long as the secondary weapon isn't a support weapon.

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #50 on: 29 November 2017, 00:34:07 »
It's not bad, actually. You've got the range of the lasers, the grenade launcher brings your damage back up, and your guys keep their mobility and close-in accuracy. Pretty nice jack of all trades load. And I'd hardly call it overly expensive. You won't see backwoods militia hauling this gear, but I wouldn't see any problem with a front line regiment packing this, such as one of the regiments attached to an RCT.

You know who I might see with a good middle-road load like this? Smaller entities. Not talking single-world units, I'm talking mercs, corpsec. They don't have the near-bottomless treasuries of a House or March, but they also don't have to outfit millions of infantry. When you're only buying guns for a company or two, and the success or failure of those troops may mean the death or severe maiming of your entire outfit, opting to go a tier or two higher than the cheapest mass-produced crap you can find isn't going to put THAT big a dent in your budget.

Hell, opting to have your mechwarriors fire off one or two less tons of LRM ammo during a peacetime training garrison would probably make up the budget difference.
Looking at it from that perspective, customized weapons from the Companion enter the picture.  One of the possible mods I particularly like is to drop the Intek to 1 power point per shot...

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #51 on: 29 November 2017, 00:41:01 »
Eh...

Marx XX is just as good... even better with damage, but I see what you like about Intek, more ammo per clip.

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #52 on: 29 November 2017, 00:50:16 »
Now I CAN choose to run with last paragraph, above Assigning Secondary Weapons pg.151.

As long as the secondary weapon isn't a support weapon.

TT

...I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #53 on: 29 November 2017, 00:54:32 »
It refers to allowing Secondary weapons (Melee and Primary) as long as it isn't Secondary (Support) in the unit to do both Fire and Move.

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #54 on: 29 November 2017, 00:56:22 »
Eh...

Marx XX is just as good... even better with damage, but I see what you like about Intek, more ammo per clip.

TT
The Mark XX is also significantly more expensive...

Alexander Knight

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #55 on: 29 November 2017, 01:00:34 »
It refers to allowing Secondary weapons (Melee and Primary) as long as it isn't Secondary (Support) in the unit to do both Fire and Move.

TT

That is correct, but you are still limited to a total of two weapons per platoon.  So in the above case, either Magna + Vibro, or Magna + VSP, or Vibro + VSP.  Not all three.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #56 on: 29 November 2017, 01:01:08 »
Yeah by 500 C-Bills... one more E damage.

Marx 5E/3
Intek 4E/3

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #57 on: 29 November 2017, 01:01:47 »
It refers to allowing Secondary weapons (Melee and Primary) as long as it isn't Secondary (Support) in the unit to do both Fire and Move.

TT


...yes? I'm still trying to understand how someone might think a platoon equipped with this
Trust me... I can make a 3070+ Draconis Combine Infantry Platoon from hell!

Magna Laser Rifle
Vibro-Katana
Medium Variable-Speed-Laser Support...

TT

Is legal. You've got a primary weapon, a secondary weapon, and a third weapon that you have to leave at home because you get primary and secondary, but you don't get tertiary except in cases I'm not going to bother listing anymore because we all know them by now. Which is primary, which is secondary, which isn't part of the platoon at all?
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
Battleforce Space is too bulky. I vote we start calling it BattleFace.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #58 on: 29 November 2017, 01:03:09 »
That is correct, but you are still limited to a total of two weapons per platoon.  So in the above case, either Magna + Vibro, or Magna + VSP, or Vibro + VSP.  Not all three.

I thought you could use all three, with the shoot or scoot mode? Or is there a mod in SO/TO?

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Alexander Knight

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Re: Infantry Support Options
« Reply #59 on: 29 November 2017, 01:20:34 »
I thought you could use all three, with the shoot or scoot mode? Or is there a mod in SO/TO?

TT

Nyet.  "Shoot or scoot" to the best of my knowledge refers to Foot platoons with 1 MP that are equipped with two Support weapons per squad.  At no point is there a mod to allow three weapon choices per platoon.  (Unless you could one-shot disposable weapons, or field guns.  Neither of which were under discussion)

 

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