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Author Topic: VTOL chassis challenge  (Read 493 times)

Cannonshop

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VTOL chassis challenge
« on: 17 January 2018, 15:17:29 »
Requirements:

Light VTOL (5 to 10 tons)
Medium VTOL (15 to 25 tons)
Heavy VTOL (26 to 30 tons)

requirements:

each craft should fill a specific role and be designed to work together with the others.

Airspeed requirements:

Light VTOL must be able to generate +6 or higher movement modifier while changing elevation 2 times and direction 3 times.
Medium VTOL must be able to maintain +5 TMM at cruise speed, with 2 facing or elevation changes.
Heavy VTOL must match medium's movement curve, but must also be able to apply a minimum of 15 points (total) damage to a target.

Weapons: is it in the tech manual? can  you make it fit?

Scoring:

1 point for each additional facing change possible at cruise speed over and above the required average listed above.
2 points for each intro-tech weapon whose "long" range falls in your design's average "Medium" or short range.
4 points for the ability to potentially inflict an Inferno crit on a vehicle, or kill a suit of Elemental armor using standard rules.
3 points for each non-weapon system you add (light and medium), this applies to systems that alter to-hit probabilities (C3) or active probes.
5 points if it's a good 'vehicle killer' or has the ability to strip another VTOL's rotors off at range.
10 points if it can survive a 2 level fall without breaching armor on at least 3 facings.

Tech Permitted: No mixed tech designs, aka Clantech must be Clantech through and through, IS tech must be IS tech through and through.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Sharpnel

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Re: VTOL chassis challenge
« Reply #1 on: 17 January 2018, 20:30:21 »
Here are my three. The first two share the same engine and all have heavy ferro-fibrous armor

Spotter

Code: [Select]
Spotter

Mass: 10 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 842,222 C-Bills
Battle Value: 561

Power Plant:  100 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 162.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 248.4 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  ER Medium Lasers
    1  TAG
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                       5 points                1.00
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             100                       2.50
    Cruise MP:  15
    Flank MP:   23
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         0.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            1.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV -  39                  2.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     12       
                                          Left/Right    9/9         
                                                Rear     7         
                                               Rotor     2         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Medium Lasers                           FR        10        2         2.00
TAG                                          FR        0         1         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      1    Points: 6
15v        1       1       0       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: TAG, ENE


Escort

Code: [Select]
Escort

Mass: 16 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 1,367,222 C-Bills
Battle Value: 642

Power Plant:  100 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 129.6 km/h
Flanking Speed: 194.4 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  ER Medium Lasers
    1  MML-3
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      10 points                2.00
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             100                       2.50
    Cruise MP:  12
    Flank MP:   18
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         1.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            2.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV -  59                  3.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     18       
                                          Left/Right   14/14       
                                                Rear     11       
                                               Rotor     2         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MML-3                                        FR        2         1         1.50
2 ER Medium Lasers                           FR        10        2         2.00
@MML-3 (SRM Inferno) (33)                    BD        -         0         1.00
@MML-3 (LRM Semi-G) (40)                     BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 6
12v        2       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities:


Attack

Code: [Select]
Attack

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 3,835,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 899

Power Plant:  160 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 108.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 162.0 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  LRM-20
    2  ER Small Lasers
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      15 points                3.00
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             160                       4.50
    Cruise MP:  10
    Flank MP:   15
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         1.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            3.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV -  79                  4.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     24       
                                          Left/Right   19/19       
                                                Rear     15       
                                               Rotor     2         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-20                                       FR        6         1        10.00
ER Small Laser                               FR        2         1         0.50
(R) ER Small Laser                           RR        2         1         0.50
@LRM-20 (Semi-G) (18)                        BD        -         0         3.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 9
10v        1       2       2       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: LRM 1/1/1, IF 1
Commander Jean-Charles Romini, ARC-4A Archer, The Four Aces
Tai-i Shizuko Lofgren, Third Infantry Company, Oniwaka

Lionel 'Swede' Sandstrøm, ZEU-6S Zeus 'Swede' Crimson Oasis Trading Company

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It's an Omni, so I can build it into whatever I please - JHB
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Thunder

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Re: VTOL chassis challenge
« Reply #2 on: 18 January 2018, 02:39:45 »
So the light VTOL must have a movement of at least 20/30?  (25 for the +6 TMM plus 5 more for facing and elevation changes.)

"2 points for each intro-tech weapon whose "long" range falls in your design's average "Medium" or short range."
Not sure what this means.  Examples?

Cannonshop

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Re: VTOL chassis challenge
« Reply #3 on: 18 January 2018, 12:50:05 »
So the light VTOL must have a movement of at least 20/30?  (25 for the +6 TMM plus 5 more for facing and elevation changes.)

"2 points for each intro-tech weapon whose "long" range falls in your design's average "Medium" or short range."
Not sure what this means.  Examples?

actually you can do it a lot slower than 24. Sharpnel's 'spotter' design does it with a cruise as 16.

as for the weapons average, an example would be the comparison of, say, the AC/2's 'long' range bracket to that of the LRM(quantity).  With an AC/2 you can be at "Medium" while an LRM rack is at "long".

now, you're not going to find a design that light that can pack all that many ranged weapons, but likewise an ERML will be at "medium" while a ML is at "long".

the basic idea is bracket-overlap, fitting your design in such a way that it can engage wiht decent numbers (even if it's not world-crushing damage) where return fire still has to deal with Long Range modifiers in addition to your TMM.

(the pre-TRO 3039 version of the H-7 was ideal with this-it could cruise for plus 5, and with it's main gun, it could engage at 'medium' where most of the 'cluster' weapons and things that could strip the rotors were at "Long".  on a good map, you could basically force the other guy to deal with target numbers of 11 or 12 just to TRY and hit, while only needing 7's or 8's for returning fire.  This is no longer possible with the H-7 now, since it's lost a point of speed to line it up as inferior to the Donar.)

With VTOLs, thanks to things like 'sideslip' and terrain not being perfectly flat, flanking is NOT good, it inflicts a heavy targeting penalty, inflicts a PSR with every facing or elevation change, and a sudden encounter with the side of a building pretty much you're out of action and/or dead thanks to terrain not being flat and the tendency of a sideslip to go quite a bit further than it does on a hovercraft...

ideas to keep in mind:

Armor on VTOLs isn't armor-it's crash protection so you can (in campaign play) keep the pilot's gains intact, rather than needing to replace them because t hey died in a fall.  while they DID modify VTOL rules from BMR's more aggressive (read fatal) rules to TM's generous, kind, 'save the slow VTOLs from ridicule' rules, your best protection with VTOL craft is still having a very high cruise speed, and being able to bracket your 'main weapons' to enable hitting-without-being-hit.

This challenge is really all about that; it specifically excludes 'slow and heavy' designs.



I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Thunder

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Re: VTOL chassis challenge
« Reply #4 on: 19 January 2018, 06:32:32 »
18 to 24 movement gives a +5 TMM.  You specified a +6 TMM for light designs, Plus additional movement points for turning/elevation changes.
Or are you including the additional +1 for "Airborne VTOL unit"?

Ok, so
Ok, so 2 points per level 1 weapon that's maximum range is less then your designs longest range weapon's long range.  Or do you have different criteria for Clan and Inner sphere designs?
4 points for an SRM weapon.
3 points each for random other equipment that doesn't do damage directly. (What do you mean by Light and Medium.  and is it per equipment item, or equipment type?)
5 points for being able to deal at least 3 individual hit locations of damage, one of which should be at least 3 points of damage.
10 points if 3 hit locations have (ROUNDUP(Mass/10) * 3) armor points each.  So 3 points per location for a VTOL 10 tons or less.  6 points/location for 11-20 tons. and 9 points/ location for 21-30 tons.

And a tech limit of things found in Techmanual.  Thus my HVAC and ERLRM's need not apply...

Cannonshop

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Re: VTOL chassis challenge
« Reply #5 on: 19 January 2018, 15:13:50 »
18 to 24 movement gives a +5 TMM.  You specified a +6 TMM for light designs, Plus additional movement points for turning/elevation changes.
Or are you including the additional +1 for "Airborne VTOL unit"?

Ok, so
Ok, so 2 points per level 1 weapon that's maximum range is less then your designs longest range weapon's long range.  Or do you have different criteria for Clan and Inner sphere designs?
4 points for an SRM weapon.
3 points each for random other equipment that doesn't do damage directly. (What do you mean by Light and Medium.  and is it per equipment item, or equipment type?)
5 points for being able to deal at least 3 individual hit locations of damage, one of which should be at least 3 points of damage.
10 points if 3 hit locations have (ROUNDUP(Mass/10) * 3) armor points each.  So 3 points per location for a VTOL 10 tons or less.  6 points/location for 11-20 tons. and 9 points/ location for 21-30 tons.

And a tech limit of things found in Techmanual.  Thus my HVAC and ERLRM's need not apply...

using VTOL movement, a 10/15 bird will pull plus five with two elevation changes, or one elevation change and one facing change, or two facing changes.

unless they changed the TMM charts again. (it's one of the things we were doing with the old pre-retcon H-7's.)

"medium" refers to the weights I arbitrarily used to distinguish.  since all VTOL are Light vehicles, (none get up to 'medium' per the usual charts) I divided them on a really rough scaling that probably needs work...but... in general, tried to keep in mind where the suspension factors really take effect.

I could have phrased the brackets better for both the weight ranges I used, and the weapons overlaps, but in general, I was aiming the comparison at the most 'baseline' weapons in the game, so clan designs will likely have a broader 'positive' spread than inner sphere by default, since both are using the most 'Basic' list as a point of comparison.  (that being the old-school Tech 1 stuff, aka 3025 inner sphere).

oh...and it's not "Maximum" but rather where that weapon is firing "long" and you're at "Medium or below".  "maximum" kind of ignores situations where something has a broader medium range than it's short range.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Tymers Realm

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Re: VTOL chassis challenge
« Reply #6 on: 19 January 2018, 15:22:46 »
What's showing in the BMM is basic movement TMMs are 10-17 at +4, 18-24 at +5, and 25+ at +6.

Sabelkatten

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Re: VTOL chassis challenge
« Reply #7 on: 20 January 2018, 05:55:15 »
Well, VTOLs still add +1 TMM for "jumping movement", don't they?

So the minimum movement rates would be 15/23 for the light and 12/18 for the heavier birds.

 

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